Advice on Converting Balcony into New Room with toilet

[Tom56 0]

Hi. I'm intending to convert the 3rd floor family and balcony of my corner terrace into an enclosed room for one of my kids. I thought this might be possible given the recent update in URA's rules on the attic within enveloped area.

Wondering if anyone is able to share insights to the process, timing (esp given the backlog due to COVID) and of course price estimation if possible? I am thinking will need to extend our my metal roof and also include in a toilet for the new room.

Much appreciate any guidance as it's my first time doing additional construction to my place.

[snoozee 98]

Balcony usually is open to sky and should remain so unless it falls within the building envelope. 
adding a toilet is not that simple like you want to have one. There are water supplies and waste pipes and you need to consider how to join back to the existing pipes. 
Look for an architect or PE who is well versed in the regulations for landed houses and see how your existing house can be renovated to what you want. 

[Tom56 0]

Thanks snoozee, so the extra room within the building envelop works. 

Yes I've been thinking much about the toilet and how challenging it can be (maybe I am still underestimating!). Does it help if I intend to build the new toilet right above the existing 2nd floor toilet? And anyone has idea on whats the possible costs of this conversion into a room w toilet?

Just wanted to arm myself with some insights. Definitely will take the advice to speak to at least a PE (I'm thinking an architect maybe a little too much for this?)

[snoozee 98]

It depends on whether your house is in a 2 storey or 3 storey zone. Assuming in. 3 storey zone, I don’t think it will be an issue to extend the roof to cover up the existing 3rd storey balcony. But if your “3rd storey” is actually your attic storey, then you can’t cover up your open to sky balcony. 
 

if your existing 2nd storey toilet has waste pipes going to the upper storey then doing the new toilet directly above might be easier. But if there’s no waste pipes going upwards from your 2nd storey, then your new toilet on your 3rd storey has to have a new waste pipe going down and through the 2nd storey to join to an exiting waste pipe at the ceiling of your 1st storey. Basically a big job to hack through the floor to run the waste pipe down. 
 

a PE can do the submission for you. But you need to find a PE who is very very well versed with the envelope control guidelines in order to know what you have in mind can be done or not. 

[Tom56 0]

Mine is in a 2-storey mixed use zone. Previously I thought was an issue if I were to close up the balcony but with the updated URA guideline that allows the max envelope space thought this is now possible. Or is my understanding wrong?

Was keen to make that extra room and of course the main issue about the toilet. Thanks so much for your advice I'll speak to a PE. Hacking the floor for the waste pipe will definitely be challenging.

In terms of timing, I had thought I could do this within 3-6 months. if cost and permissioning is ok, do you think possible?

[snoozee 98]

2 storey zone the attic balcony usually is open to sky and must remain open to sky. Unless you have an open roof terrace as your attic then you could possible enclose the parts which are within the building envelope. Unless you don’t mind having a fully enclosed area based on the 45 degrees slope then no issue since the enclosing will still be within the envelope. Take a look at the envelope control building envelope outline. If your balcony falls outside the area enclosed by the building envelope (45 degrees line), you cannot enclose it with a horizontal roof. Roof is a structure element which must be within the building envelope with a leeway of 1m protrusion for eaves. 
 

timing wise don’t trust anyone who says can complete within 3 to 6 months. Shortage of workers is a problem now and projects will drag on unless your contractor is just only doing your project. A house near to mine was supposed to complete an A&A within 6 months. Now 7 months later it is still no where nearing completion and by my estimate should take another 3 months. Main problem is that the main contractor will pull the workers to work elsewhere and sometimes hardly any work done for weeks. 

[Tom56 0]

Hi snoozee wishing you and the family a prosperous and healthy year of the Tiger ahead!

Many thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge and for answering my questions. Will be talking to couple of people after CNY and hopefully things can move along smoothly

[prodriver6 7]

i'm not familiar with the topic, but one thing i can attest to is completion timeframe challenge. you must bug, hound, track and spend time to monitor closely. 

i feel in times like this, the loudest home owner gets the most attention. 

before you sign, just make it clear to the contractor that you are going to be a PITA and if he cannot tahan u hounding him, he better not take your business, set the correction expectation and make him come out with a detailed workplan down to day first before you even sign anything.

[Tom56 0]

Yes this seems to be the recurring theme from various people who have done renovations in the past 2 years. It is really quite stressful. I'm making arrangements timing for 6-8 months to see if my renovations can be done any longer and I think it's maybe not worth the effort. Trying to get some "commitment" from contractor and see his response before deciding. 

I budgeted to convert the balcony area (~350 sqft) to room with small toilet at $75k to make this workable else it does seem too much. Any views?

[snoozee 98]

just put in a LD clause and fine the contractor for every month of delay beyond the contractual period.

$350psf seems unlikely in today's context with raw materials price already increased and shortage of manpower. you should be looking at about $400 psf or higher already.

[AWS 6]

Some owners put in a LD(day or month)in the contract. Most builders if see a LD in a contract, will load in a sum to the final cost. Frankly speaking, they are not stupid that the owner insist on a LD in the contract and builder just accept the job without loading. Nowadays, jobs are plenty and they can choose. 
Whatever the final contract sum, the builder’s QS will definitely know the full cost to the builder before loading a 20-30%  profit before accepting the contract or taking part in the tender.

[Tom56 0]

Do you guys think it makes a difference whether choosing a ID/Contractor who is bigger or bespoke. Not sure how to define size/reputation but would that make a difference in this environment?