Buying old house with previous termite and water leakage problems

[angtc11 0]

Hi

I am looking to buy a landed property for the first time and the prospective buy is an old house which had termite and leakage problems.

Due to a tight budget, I will will not be rebuilding and instead do basic and necessary reno like painting, wiring, plumbing and keep to ~100k.

Would like to understand from the experienced people from the forum to understand how to manage them and if I should proceed with the purchase.

Property has been renovated once 15  years and another time 7 years ago but 1-2 years back the following problems surfaced. Seller claims they were fixed (we chanced upon an invoice from a pest company stating that there are no termite activities dated sept'20).

 

1) Termite problems at master bedroom parquet

- Would it mean be recommended that the wooden items like the parquet, wardrobes, kitchen cabinet be replaced? Would replacing them mean that this particular infestation be effectively eradicated (understand that there might be another independent infestation even if this particular one is eradicated)?

- How big of a possibility would a recurrence be if I can get my own inspection to confirm the termites are cleared (without replacing the parquet etc)?

- How big of an one time/ongoing cost would a prevention of recurrence be?

- would termites pose a structural problem for the house?

2) Water leakage from skylight

- Should I get a property inspector or a contractor to ascertain whether there is any lasting damage?

- what kind of remedial measures are usually required and the approx cost (so that I can include in the reno scope)?

 

3) Reno budget of 100k

- The overall appearance of the house is still acceptable and I would have retained the flooring, wardrobe, kitchen cabinet, toilets (would replace sanitary fittings)  had there not been a termite problem. Is this budget realistic to cover the basics to move in and stay for ~10 years?

- owner extended the back of the house to create a room and did not provide for the back offset of 1m. Would I have to adhere to the regulations and revert the changes? The seller agent stated that this is not required so long as I only did 'internal reno'

Appreciate any advice or comments. Thanks in advance!

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by angtc11
Updated question

[snoozee 98]

The invoice from pest control company means that the owners are doing regular pest control with checks for termites. I don’t think it is expensive to engage a company to do regular pest control on an annual contract with monthly visits. 

termites can come from elsewhere so don’t have now doesn’t mean don’t have forever. Regular checks would still be needed as preventive measure. 
 

Unless the house has structure made out of wood, there should not be any structural issues due to termites.

leaking skylight can be fixed. Just how much it costs only. Without removing the skylight, one would not know the extent of the damage the leak had caused.

reno really depends on what you want to do. List down all the things you plan to do and you should be able to work out if 100k is enough or not.

rear set back for landed houses is usually 2m unless the area has special requirements. For the illegal extension, you can apply to URA to regularise it by paying a sum of money if I’m not wrong. Of cos you would then need a QP to do the submission. Important thing is whether the extension is designed and done properly by a professional or not. There should be drawings done by an engineer for that. Ask to see the drawings for the extension. If drawings not signed off by a PE, then is your own call already. 

 

 

[angtc11 0]

Hi Snoozee,

I browsed the forum last night for termite topics and saw a March thread that mentioned costs of 2.5k for treatment and 500 for annual. Is this usually sufficient? I saw some pest companies website recommend monthly/bimonthly checks, each time costing a few hundred.

Will speak to the pest control people to check out on an inspection package if we were to offer. In your opinion, should the wooden items be replaced during reno? Wanted to get unbiased opinions from the forum as on one hand, I am afraid the pest control will just advise me to retain the wood for future business and on the other, it will use up the budget for reno. If the costs are really 500 annually and the house is cleared as good, inclination is to retain since the 500 annual would be necessary expense anyway

 

The sellers claim the leaks have also been fixed, which I guess I would only know if I get a person to check out the property. I would prefer to retain the skylight since it provides much needed light into the house.

Also saw roofing costs of ~20k while browsing the forum, but it was a few years back. For the reno, I will list down the items to further get an opinion here. A high level discussion with a contractor based on the floor area came up to be ~100k, but this would be his first landed reno, hence we are also unsure whether it is a correct ballpark.

 

The seller agent confirmed that its illegal but also positioned that the illegal structure can remain if we don't do anything major requiring submission of plans to URA. Will check out with URA on that part too.

Thanks for your help!

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by angtc11
update wording

[snoozee 98]

whether the pest control services is sufficient or not is subjective. remember that termites are living creatures and they can come from anywhere. getting rid of them for now doesn't mean they won't come back for good. you will still need to perform regular checks and maintenance.

I would suggest you get a contractor who has prior experience in dealing with landed houses for your job. landed houses are very different from regular apartments and the requirements are slightly different as well. you are just inviting trouble when getting someone with no experience in dealing with landed houses to perform your house renovation and especially on a big element like the roof.

usually government agencies will only act on feedback so don't go and stir the hornet's nest. as mentioned, get hold of the drawings for the illegal structure and make sure it is designed by a PE. even if you want to retain the illegal structure, you have to make sure that it is structurally sound and designed and built properly. the last thing you want is to have something happening within that illegal structure and you might be fully liable for that since insurance may not cover it. you had also mentioned that the house is good for stay for the next 10 years. so is your plan going to be selling the house after that or redeveloping the house? if selling the house, this illegal structure will become your liability should you choose not to regularise it with the authorities.

[petetherock 13]

IMO termites can be tricky

I’ll avoid a home with one if I can

For roof repair quotes, it’s best to work with a builder for actual quotes after a survey 

 

[angtc11 0]

Thanks Snoozee, agreed on the contractor experience especially now that the issues surfaced. Will be looking for builder, in fact, we were also considering the builder that's is reconstructing the house next door.

 

Unfortunately, I dropped an enquiry to URA just now, but did not provide the specific address. Will disengage that discussion when they respond. I am actually open to selling or redeveloping the house after 10 years, depending on the economics at that time.

 

Thanks once again for your sound advice!

[angtc11 0]

35 minutes ago, petetherock said:

IMO termites can be tricky

I’ll avoid a home with one if I can

For roof repair quotes, it’s best to work with a builder for actual quotes after a survey 

 

Hi Petetherock

You would also avoid houses with former termite infestation that has been inspected independently? I contacted Origin and their feedback is to do either a basic visual inspection at a ~200 or a thermal inspection at ~600 to assess what's the next step. Would the inspection not be a sufficient mitigation of the earlier termite problem? Or is it just that a former infestation means a recurrence is likely?

Thanks!

[petetherock 13]

You can ask them to take a look, assess the severity first, then decide.

But knowingly buying a termite infected place might be tricky.

If someone pro can assure you it's clear, I guess you can take your chance..

In any case, we may not know about such things beforehand. But you mentioned you are on a tight budget, so if it turns out to require a lot of reno or infestation work, you will blow your budget... 

[angtc11 0]

Hi Petetherock

Yup, I intend to get someone to assess the termites situation before buying. Wanted to ask around on this forum to understand if even an inspection and subsequent measures would be futile, then I would just walk away.

If the inspection shows that there are still problems and might have spread, neccessicitating tearing out the other wooden items then the next hurdle is the reno budget (assuming replacing is effective). However, reno budget is slightly flexible as that's a choice, technically it then boils down to the deal price (and my leftover cash), I can go up to say 150k or slightly more.

Edited December 28, 2020 by angtc11
Update wording

[angtc11 0]

23 hours ago, snoozee said:

whether the pest control services is sufficient or not is subjective. remember that termites are living creatures and they can come from anywhere. getting rid of them for now doesn't mean they won't come back for good. you will still need to perform regular checks and maintenance.

I would suggest you get a contractor who has prior experience in dealing with landed houses for your job. landed houses are very different from regular apartments and the requirements are slightly different as well. you are just inviting trouble when getting someone with no experience in dealing with landed houses to perform your house renovation and especially on a big element like the roof.

usually government agencies will only act on feedback so don't go and stir the hornet's nest. as mentioned, get hold of the drawings for the illegal structure and make sure it is designed by a PE. even if you want to retain the illegal structure, you have to make sure that it is structurally sound and designed and built properly. the last thing you want is to have something happening within that illegal structure and you might be fully liable for that since insurance may not cover it. you had also mentioned that the house is good for stay for the next 10 years. so is your plan going to be selling the house after that or redeveloping the house? if selling the house, this illegal structure will become your liability should you choose not to regularise it with the authorities.

Hi Snoozee

The seller does not have the PE plans as he bought 15 years ago and the extension was done before his time. To add to the complication, the neighbour on that side is rebuilding his inter terrace. In such a situation, will they be liable to make restitution to an illegal structure even if they caused the problem? Assuming the precon report included the illegal structure (am requesting for the report)

My contractor however mentioned that URA might learn of the illegal extension through the transaction due process since a surveyor will be needed but this was refuted by the agent who said only bank valuer will be onsite. Firstly, is it correct that there are no surveyors involved? If they are, would URA detect and investigate discrepancies in the submission and their records?

 

Thanks!

 

[snoozee 98]

Normally precon survey is done to document the existing conditions of neighboring houses so that claims which are made can be verified. Whether illegal structure or not is covered I’m not too sure. But if the structure is already there and damage is a direct result of the construction, the builder should rectify the damages. 
 

survey is not needed unless you want to confirm encroachment and such. Even then, there’s no need to submit to URA if you are just doing an A&A. 
 

that’s why I had advised you to find an experienced builder instead of relying on your contractor. Normally people who had not done landed houses before do not known the processes required

[angtc11 0]

Hi Snoozee

The person who advised was licensed to do landed, hence i thought it was factual.

WRT the illegal extension, all the older houses along that stretch built up to the rear boundary,  could it be a result of legacy development control guidelines?

Further, when i browsed the cadastral preview on INLIS, the diagram of the unit in question showed the building up to the boundary, while other units who also built to the boundary were not reflected correctly. Does this imply that the extension is actually approved?

The best way to determine the legality of the extension is to retrieve the plans from BCA?

 

Appreciate your advice, thanks!

[snoozee 98]

licensed to do landed and having the prior experience in doing landed are different things.

when you purchase a house, a land survey is not mandatory or required. if you are borrowing money from bank, only the property valuer will perform a valuation of the property and submit a valuation report to the bank. URA and BCA are not involved in the property sale and purchase transaction at all.

there are certain landed housing areas in Singapore where the standard guidelines does not apply to the houses in these areas. eg: front setback at 5m instead of 7.5m. front set back matches current setback of neighbouring houses. rear setback for 1st sotrey is not needed. rear setback for 2nd storey at 1m.
so you will need to check URA site on whether your target house falls within one of these areas or not.

even if most of the houses have rear extended to the boundary, it doesn't mean they are legal if URA doesn't say it's legal.

don't take what you see on OneMap as 100 percent accurate. INLIS street preview is using OneMap as the map and the information is wrong sometimes. When I was applying to rebuild my house, the URA officer commented on why we had submitted the project title as corner terrace as OneMap shows my house being an inter-terrace. Apparently whoever updated the graphics on OneMap had conveniently just joined all the houses together without leaving a gap between my house and my neighbour's house to indicate the 2 corner terrace houses.

Whether the rear extension is legal or not, you will need to get hold of the latest set of building plans from BCA (only owner can buy) as well as get a confirmation from URA on what is the setback requirement for your house. Go to URA website, under development control, residential handbooks and terrace houses, select Locational Criteria. Check the Landed Housing guided by Street Block Plans and see if your house does fall within the list or not. if it doesn't, it means your house is governed by the standard setback of 2m and the rear extension is illegal.

[Ullani 0]

For the water leakage, consulting a property inspector or contractor is wise to assess any lasting damage and estimate remedial costs accurately.

[GermanStein 0]

In my experience, when it comes to termites, it's essential to get a thorough inspection done, regardless of whether the seller claims they've been eradicated. Sometimes these pests can be persistent! As for the water leakage, having a professional assess any potential damage is a smart move to avoid surprises later on.As for your reno budget, it's great that you're focusing on the essentials. Just be sure to leave a bit of wiggle room for unexpected expenses. And hey, if you're still grappling with those pesky termites, consider reaching out to PestControlCompanies.net. They were a huge help to me when I faced a similar issue a while back.