8.5a Current Limit For Old Resale Flats

[Light 0]

I just bought an old 5-room resale flat that is about 27 years old.

I am thinking of possibly installing an aircon system that might cool 3 bedrooms and the hall. Was informed by an aircon salesman that for old flats with 8.5 Ampere limit can only use a System 3. Even if I install a more powerful compressor, I will not be able to make full use of it as 8.5 Amperes can only allow compressors to churn out a maximum of about 21,000 BTU. He went on to recommend that I should consider an invertor type system 3 with a current limit switch(to be set at 8.5A for safety).

May I have your views on this? Anybody with the same experience? Anyway around this?

However, I checked http://www.hdb.gov.sg/bn25/isos119p.nsf/Search?OpenForm and discovered that

"Your block has not been provided with higher electrical loading. You will need to apply for an HDB permit to install new 15 Amps power points for air-conditioners or other higher capacity equipment/appliances (e.g. high powered IT equipment). "

1) Does this mean that I can upgrade from 8.5 to 15 Amperes?

2) Has anyone done this? If so, how much does it costs to upgrade?

3) Will this upgrade mean that I can fully use the 15 Amp and therefore a system 4, perhaps?

Am feeling quite frustrated with this as I wasn't aware of this restriction when I bought the house. Will be grateful for any ideas. Thanks

[Light 0]

Did a bit of reading up on Ahnaiz's Singapore Aircon Blogspot. The site is quite informative and there was an article dated Saturday, July 16, 2005 which answered some of my questions.

Have realised from there that:

1) Yes, I cannot use the full potential of more powerful compressors.

2) I would probably get up to 24,000BTU rather than 21,000BTU.

3) There are only a few brands that offer current limit switches and they are all inverter type.

4) Nowadays, most inverter types use R410A refrigerant, which means more expensive refrigerant top-ups and have to ensure that the installer is qualified.

However, I am still looking for answers for my questions 1-3....anybody?

I think I will send my floor plan to Ahnaiz to take a look.

Edited April 18, 2007 by Light

[genesis 0]

there are model with 8.5A limitation for system4, as far as i know Daikin and ME have this model

[drycelll 0]

anyone can ans 1-3, i am oso looking for answer?

ME with saftey valve to limit the amp at 8.5A, however, that means u cant go max BTU as specificed by the condenser rite? ;(

[domho 0]

Hi

I am facing the same problem as my flat limits 8.5Amp.

Am looking for aircons that runs above 8.5Amp.

Anyone can help.

[tinkle 0]

i also facing same problem.

Called up coolXXXXX. The lady which i talked to told me that no problem upgrading to 15Amp - just have to apply to HDB. I really wonder if it is true cos i also called another company and wasnt told of this option. This other person just told me if my house is restricted by 8.5Amp max running amp, then, i can only use a few systems that cater to that.

I also want to be enlightened on this

[Light 0]

I asked the Salesman at GXXncity and he said that it is no use to upgrade to 15A because it is just the type of socket or connector that change...not the underlying current...that still remains at 8A...

I went like....HUH?! Then what is the point? Somemore, have to pay to upgrade!

Can anyone help to explain? I suspect that either he did not explain properly or I misunderstood him...I mean ...why would anyone pay for this so called upgrade to 15A?

[earth 0]

I asked the Salesman at GXXncity and he said that it is no use to upgrade to 15A because it is just the type of socket or connector that change...not the underlying current...that still remains at 8A...

I went like....HUH?! Then what is the point? Somemore, have to pay to upgrade!

Can anyone help to explain? I suspect that either he did not explain properly or I misunderstood him...I mean ...why would anyone pay for this so called upgrade to 15A?

hi all...

i am facing the same problem too, bought a 26yr old resale and wan to aircondition living and 3 bedrooms.

well, im not an expert, still trying to read and find out more, do correct me if i am wrong...

as far as i understand, for 4 and 5 rm old flats provided with 30Amps, which i believe ours fall under this category... the max limit for the current for our airconditioner is 8.5Amps. We cant upgrade this 8.5Amp. 15 Amps is the limit of the POWER POINT provided, but for the running of the aircon, 8.5 Amps is the limit. There is an existing power point, which we can choose to change to a new one but we need to apply for a permit to do so. (haven figured the benefits of doing so tho, awaiting a reply from HDB regarding this).

Bottomline: we are stuck with 8.5 Amps. (and being allowed to install only one compressor unit)

But the good news, PHEW, is that, there are System 4 units that run on 8.5 Amps. I believe these would be the Inverter units, as these allow the current varied. As Genesis has noted, Daikin does have a System 4 that runs on 8.5 Amps. (http://www.daikin.com.sg/products.asp?series=r4) Not sure about ME as yet though... will update if i find more units... and information

cheers!

[genesis 0]

Even my 7 yrs old flat(newer model) need to apply for permit for installing air-con.. They'll ask for the model and brand before approved, I heard the rules was changed recently for newer flat. Anyway 8.5A is the peak, if you're using 1 out of 4 or 2 of 4 fan-coil at a time then both Daikin and ME should compliance, some may experienced power trip if you On all the fan-coils, but this should be rare as most people will not power on all the fan coils. You may want to ask HDB which are the approved model for your flat, usually they will assist.. because now their salary had raised , should have more smiling face

[Light 0]

I wrote to HDB and even spoke with their technical officer. Their response:

"...if you are installing the air-conditioner using existing approved 15 Amps power point provided by flat owner or HDB, the maximum total running current allowed is 8.5 Amps & the Aircon condensing unit maximum weight allowed is 80 Kg."

"....However, if there is no existing 15 Amps power point in the unit that you are going to purchase, you may need to submit the SP Services Ltd (SPSL) Form CS/5 to our Branch Office for endorsement and arrange with SPSL to test the new wiring. Flat owners or their licensed electrical contractors can submit the application for electrical work permits electronically via the HDB InfoWeb at http://www.hdb/gov.sg"

I gathered that the most, if not all, aircons require the 15A power point. Not because they really require up to 15A but thats the way they are constructed. So I will have to apply for one if the previous owner did not install(forgot to check that when I was viewing the house).

On the bright side, as Earth and Genesis had pointed out earlier, we can get a system 4 with a current limiting switch so that we won't trip the circuit when we turn on the aircon. It won't be as powerful as we like it to be but I don't have a choice.

My research turned up 3 compressors that fit the bill:

Fujitsu AOY36(most powerful)

Fujitsu AOAA32J

Mitsubishi MXY3A28VA

Anybody can give feedback regarding these 3 compressors? Or brands?

Edited June 9, 2007 by Light

[genesis 0]

Somehow ME is better , Fujitsu is so so to me.. But either one you choose you've to consider the "kw" because if a compressor draw more current that mean you've to pay more Electricity bill. BTW, is this model you're referring AOY36VMNM4 (fujitsu) ?? If this is the model, then I suspect it may not fit , the running current is 16.5A which is higher then your expectation.

In my personal opinion, Daikin design and quality are better then ME and Fujitsu. The cool air from daikin seem to be healtier .. some brands are very dry, you could feel your lip very dry when you woke up.

[domho 0]

I wrote to HDB and even spoke with their technical officer. Their response:

"...if you are installing the air-conditioner using existing approved 15 Amps power point provided by flat owner or HDB, the maximum total running current allowed is 8.5 Amps & the Aircon condensing unit maximum weight allowed is 80 Kg."

"....However, if there is no existing 15 Amps power point in the unit that you are going to purchase, you may need to submit the SP Services Ltd (SPSL) Form CS/5 to our Branch Office for endorsement and arrange with SPSL to test the new wiring. Flat owners or their licensed electrical contractors can submit the application for electrical work permits electronically via the HDB InfoWeb at http://www.hdb/gov.sg"

I gathered that the most, if not all, aircons require the 15A power point. Not because they really require up to 15A but thats the way they are constructed. So I will have to apply for one if the previous owner did not install(forgot to check that when I was viewing the house).

On the bright side, as Earth and Genesis had pointed out earlier, we can get a system 4 with a current limiting switch so that we won't trip the circuit when we turn on the aircon. It won't be as powerful as we like it to be but I don't have a choice.

My research turned up 3 compressors that fit the bill:

Fujitsu AOY36(most powerful)

Fujitsu AOAA32J

Mitsubishi MXY3A28VA

Anybody can give feedback regarding these 3 compressors? Or brands?

From What I found out. For non Invertor, Daikin can go up to my requirement but its still a 20kBTU compressor.

In the end I went for Mitsubishi Inverter (Mitsubishi MXY3A28VA) 18x10x10BTU.

[Light 0]

Thanks, people. Good information so far. Let's keep this going also for the sake of those who have bought old resale flats.

I was recently advised to go for a Toshiba aircon at 2 aircon shops.

Recommendation:

1 X Compressor: RAS4M30YACV 34K BTU

2 X RAS-M10NKCV 9K BTU

1 X RAS-M13NKCV 12K BTU

1 X RAS22NKCV 22K BTU

1) Is this configuration within the 8.5A limit? Yes, I am aware I cannot turn on all the fancoils at once, but I want to know if this will trip the circuit if I turn on the 12k and 22k BTU fancoil at the same time

2) Is $3,465/w GST a good price to pay for this? (Excludes S/S bracket)

3) Any comments about this brand/model? Anything I should know before I decide on this?

Thanks in advance and happy searching to all.

[genesis 0]

This recommendation of that brand got to do with sales incentive la..

The are couples feedback that it will trip (for your case). Some said the compressor unit may not fit at those area for mounting. So size of compressor unit sometime have to consider also for older flat.

Next thing you might want to consider is the fan coil noise level, to date most 10btu and below are within 21-24Db range, those above 12 BTU type goes somewhere between 23 to 45Db. So far ME and Daikin are the top for lower noise level. My older Daikin is quiet but ME is quieter, both (10btu type)consider good to me.

Next when you compare, you've to use the same type of fan coil , then it will be more "choon" another word apple to apple comparison.

Also watch out for after sales gimmick..mostly terms and condition apply.. and don't kanna side track by providing free gifts, just remember that air con you're getting is going to service you for years but gift will only last for that moment!