Gimmicks From Renovation Packages

[bentan76 2]

Hi All,

Wanted to share my experience here...

Will be getting my resale 5 Rm keys in Dec. Looking at renovation works mainly for Kitchen and the 2 bathroom.

As usual, starting from early Oct, using google found several numbers of ID/Contractor offering "attractive packages" for Kitchen & 2 Bathrooms.

Their Packages normally ranges between 8k to 12k

Called up and even dropby to their showroom for quotations... Guess what! They all got so many hidden and unspoken terms and conditions. All the quotations eventually will end up somewhere at the 20k region,

1 Contractor even told us " Everybody putting up these price, if they dont follow suit how to get enquiry! This price how to do!"

I never ask for a super unreasonable quote, I only wanted something that is at the best reasonable rate. Not asking for the moon ya.

Feel so cheated and frustrated after all these running around.

Still looking around and will post my experience using this thread. Hope I can shine some light into this super grey industrial.

Always welcome any PM for good and reasonable price contractors! Thanks in advance...

[bentan76 2]

Thanks to the PM received. Will talk to them and keep update

[Alternate Tan 4]

Like the contractor who told you, the prices is to lure you in. The package still stands, but all inferior materials or standard size. Chances which most owners will not take, so this the time they took out their razor.

[bentan76 2]

Thanks again for the advise and recommendation given by Bros and Sis.

Facing another problem here once I resolve the other problem

All different contractors will list different description and miss out some items so they can charge you for additional cost. That's why some prices are really low.

Think the best solution is to come out with a Template and ask them to revise. So I know I will be comparing Apple to Apple.

I will post up the template when I finish.

Hope that this template with some price can shine some light for future Resale owners as well.

Resale owners note: we are actually facing more challenge in getting quotation as we are not able to stick to some offered packages for BTO flats....

And its real hard to compare unless the shortlisted contractors are using the same template.

Just my 2 cent...

I also just purchased about 80% of my household items from Taobao by following one of the link in this forum.

You will really be so tempted by the price and design they have to offer on their site!

My wife and I finally decide to go for it. Just buy and see how it goes..

Imagine a decent designer ceiling fan will cost $600+ locally, i got it at $250 including shipping at Taobao.

And... Their items really chio chio. Very hard to resist. Do remember your shipping will cost higher then the item itself should it be a huge one. Do your calculation carefully, make sure there is a marginal saving if you decide to commit. At least about 40% saving is what I am aiming for before I will buy

But do note most properly you got to forgo the warranty portion. Calculated risk. There is no way to ship back to China for the big items. too troublesome

Need to cross finger that the fragile items will come in 1 piece.. Already request from Seller to have extra protection. They do charge extra though, normally about RMB20 to 40 depending on item.

Here is the link for reference should you be interested.

http://www.renotalk.com/forum/topic/64737-my-taobao-hme/

Edited November 12, 2014 by bentan76

[MelanieTan 2]

Thanks Bentan! This thread is real helpful, am facing problems trying to list down my "template" as well (I came to the same conclusion as you about coming up with a list and going to different places to get inputs then judge from there... but that's after I got cheated. Better late than never I guess.) Will be following!

[bentan76 2]

(MelanieTan, Glad if my thread can help in any possible way.) Need more inputs from other bros and sis as well to make it more comprehensive ya!

Here are some nice nice photos and price of the items I got from taobao. NOTE: Price excludes China Domestic and shipping to Singapore. I will update the shipping cost in my shopping list once the courier company update me. Also, price excludes installation of course...

Ceiling Fan with light ( For Hall ) SGD 96.00 ( Singapore selling similar type around SGD500 )

Ceiling Fan with Light ( For Common Room ) SGD133.60 ( Singapore selling similar type around $450+, I seen some shop selling SGD600plus )

Tap for Toilet SGD57.00 ( I went to several big stores locally, a decent looking tap at least SGD120++ )

The list goes on and on and on as I purchase est. around 4K of stuff

For Bros and Sis who are interested, please click on the dropbox link for my Taobao shopping list which includes the price, pictures and link to the respective merchants.

There is a total of 3 worksheet. You can see a summarize of the price at the 3rd worksheet and the top of each sheet.

1st label as (Huiting) is my reference for a courier that goes by weight to Singapore by air. They charge SGD4 per kilo. Comes in by air. Good for small and light items

2nd label as (Amcon) is for big heavy items. They charge by SGD105 per meter cubie. They also charge GST and a 1 time declaration fee. Take note when doing your mathematics!

All shipping related Q&A can all be found in the previous link.

DROP BOX https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwh0fs0f0v3lxdj/Taobao%20List%20with%20Costing.xlsx?dl=0

Edited November 15, 2014 by bentan76

[bentan76 2]

Back to Renovation Gimmicks and tricks.

I shortlisted and met up with some more ID and contractors whose price looks competitive enough.

Guess what... As usual, at the meetup, they show me the catalogs for the laminates. Its all the normal type. If I want those better grade high gloss or patterned design got to top up. Quoted $1000 top up to $1600

If I want to have better type of wood for the shoe cabinets, Quoted $1200 Top up to $1650

If I want to have better grade of paint and more choices of colors. Quoted $1400 Top up to $1800

So, eventually after all the top ups, the price remains between 23K to 25K. Back to square one again Bros!

I know the meaning of pay peanuts get monkeys. But, too many grey areas, got to be cautious. Once you committed, you just got to pay and pay.... And who knows what will be the final sum

My colleague who just did up his house suffer.

Contract price at $32,000 for a 5 room BTO. Signed and final bill $36,538.

Some of his top ups as follows:

1) Painting whole house limited to 3 colors. He wanted 5 colors

2) Price quoted for 6 to 8 weeks completion. He needs to move in 4 wks. So... Pay Overtime

3) Price quoted for supply and install wall tile max at $2.50 PSF which is not indicted in the quote till they went to select the tiles. He shortlisted $3,50 psf. Top up around 1k+

and the list goes on....

Will be meeting up some more contacts again. Update soon ya.

Here is the floorplan I edited myself for all the contractors/ID for reference.

In a nut shell, below is my template for all the contractors/ID for my Resale 5 Rm. My lowest quote till now with all my expectations $19,000 net. This Contractor dont have GST. I save 7%. else will be $19,000 + $1,330 = $20,330. Can easily get a 50inch TV with that saving of 7%.

Since I am still shortlisting for contractors, I will not list down the Schedule of Rates (Unit price).

S/No Description

1 Living / Dining

1.1 To provide dry polish for existing marble flooring c/w skirting 470sqf .

1.2 To construct 100mm hight platform with laminate finish 4.5ft x 11.5ft .

1.3 To design & fabricate 8ft x full ht shoes cabinet .

2 KITCHEN

2.1 To cut & hack existing entrance concrect wall ( half & full ht 2 slab ) .

2.2 To supply & install 3pce of table top, 2.5ft / 3ft / 6ft .

2.3 To supply & overlaying matt homogenious flooring .

2.4 To hack existing fridge base .

2.5 To dismantle & dispost existing all cabinet door .

2.6 To supply & install new laminate door 15 nos & 1 set of drawer .

2.7 To design & fabricate 2.5ft x full ht storage cabinet .

2.8 To supply & install Glass Backsplash L900x600mm

3 Common Toilet

3.1 To dismantle & dispost existing all sanitary item .

3.2 To supply & overlaying ceramic wall tiles till ceiling ht 230sqf .

3.3 To Supply & lay single way incoming water pipe .

3.4 To supply & overlaying matt homogenious floor tiles .

3.5 To supply & install fixed tempered glass panal at shower screen .

3.6 To provide labour to install all sanitary item & accessories .

3.7 To supply & install frosted tempered glass swing door at entrance 12mm .

4 Master Toilet

4.1 To dismantle & dispost existing all sanitary item & vanity cabinet .

4.2 To supply & overlaying ceramic wall tiles till ceiling ht 230sqf .

4.3 To Supply & lay single way incoming water pipe .

4.4 To supply & overlaying matt homogenious floor tiles .

4.5 To supply & install fixed tempered glass panal at shower screen .

4.6 To design & fabricate wall to wall 5ft suspended cabinet c/w solid surface top .

4.7 To provide labour to install all sanitary item & accessories .

4.8 To supply & install frosted tempered glass swing door at entrance 12mm .

5 Bedroom ( 3 )

5.1 To sandown & re-vanish existing parqute flooring c/w skirting .

6 Bedroom ( 2 )

6.1 To sandown & re-vanish existing parqute flooring c/w skirting .

7 Master Bedroom

7.1 To sandown & re-vanish existing parqute flooring c/w skirting .

7.2 To design & fabricate 2.5ft x full ht storage cabinet .

7.3 To design & fabricate 6ft x 4ft suspended feature wall .

7.4 To supply & install 6ft x full ht light weight partition wall at recess area .

8 Others

8.1 Whole house painting wall using nippon paint & ceiling using matex white.

8.2 Wholes house chemical wash upon completion .

8.3 To lay whole house floor protextion during work process .

8.4 To provide haulage service .

8.5 To supply labour for installation of Wallpaper. Est 10 Rolls

8.6 To supply labour for installation 5x Ceiling Fans inclusive of relocating for 2x Common Room

8.7 To supply labour for replacement of est. 20 nos downlight

Edited November 15, 2014 by bentan76

[benetay 14]

Seems like a very good price! 5 Rm for 19k. I was quoted 20+ for just renovating masterbed room, 1 toilet, kitchen, L box, down lights.

Thanks for sharing the information, i will use your info as reference.

Thanks!

[lilian.quek 6]

that's really good research and template done! yeah, some id really unscrupulous and add alot of extra things later

[Sunil Rai 2]

Tell me about it.

Packages are very misleading. I knew it before i even started looking for contractors/IDs but I didnt know the extent to which they were.

From 12k-20k in package price to 30k-50k in actual reno prices. You cant blame them though, part of businesses I suppose. There are those who claim they are more transparent with their prices though.

I tend not to meet them without getting a preliminary quote because I tell them upfront, itll be pointless if you are not within my range.

Anyways, can i have the contact of your contractor? Ive found 1 so far having discussed this with many.The one wants to see my place before confirming though. He speaks only Chinese. So until I get my keys, I wont have an exact quote but I have been recommended by friends so ill give it a shot. But I guess I have to wait till I get my keys..apparently no GST and no design charges, no rubbish/unnecessary charges.. So hoping for the best

4rm Resale Renovation, with my budget being 30k (nothing ultra fancy)

Thankss

Edited November 20, 2014 by SunilRai

[CalisL 0]

Hi Bentan,

Can send me your contractor details once you finalised on the person? Thanks a lot.

I am just starting to source for quotation.

[yewgene 0]

I shortlisted and met up with some more ID and contractors whose price looks competitive enough.

Guess what... As usual, at the meetup, they show me the catalogs for the laminates. Its all the normal type. If I want those better grade high gloss or patterned design got to top up. Quoted $1000 top up to $1600

So, eventually after all the top ups, the price remains between 23K to 25K. Back to square one again Bros!

I know the meaning of pay peanuts get monkeys. But, too many grey areas, got to be cautious. Once you committed, you just got to pay and pay.... And who knows what will be the final sum

There's both good & bad when it comes to packages... For those who can live with the simple designs or with the limited options, then the number of top-ups need not be too many.

I agree that we have to be cautious, that's why do have several quotes from different companies to have a clearer picture of what you're going to be purchasing. For some, a package (even if its slightly more ex) can also be a hassle-free experience as one company cn help to settle everything, from sourcing of materials & providing the labour.

[bentan76 2]

Just got news from my seller asking for extension for 1 month due to the complication for his new apartment...

Chain reaction. These few days negotiating with my buyer and seller on the handover date.

It is going to be a nightmare for the renovation. Targeted date for key collection will be on 13 Jan 2015 and move in on 8 Feb 2015 ( 3 Weeks+- ). And CNY just around the corner!

Good Luck to me.

More or less I have shortlisted the contractor. Final price with the same works will be S$18,288.00 after all the negotiation ( Price a bit cheena ya, a lot of back and fore loh ). Not finalize as he has yet to get back to me in regards to the new renovation schedule. He worried about his Malaysian subcon schedules.

As per my previous post. I will list down the SOR once I sign with him.... ( In case I got to change contractor )

Bros and Sis. This is my experience from all these months of hunting... and the reason why I choose this contractor. Feel free to comment if I overlook any areas... I still haven't sign ya!! Frankly, I am sick and tired of this process already! Need to move forward to the construction period ya

Background

1) He and 1 partner running this renovation company for 15yrs +-

2) He is into sales and his partner as the Project Manager

3) They don't have a shop front, only a mailing address.

( This helps bring down their overhead to almost 0 and explains why their price are way more competitive, however also increase our risk. I request for 4x progressive payments scheme to protect myself in the event of any dispute. 30% upfront, 20% upon start work, 30% upon 70% completion and final 20% upon Handover )

4) As like most IDs and Contractors. They Sub out all the works to Sub-Contractors ( Carpentry, Tiling... etc )

5) 90% of their projects are through recommendation, 10% from some Free Web advertisement.

6) I got his contact from my sister, her renovation for BTO at Sembawang just completed last week. I will try to upload some completed photos.

Pros

1) No aggressive sales pitch or follow up

2) Quite flexible and remain friendly when we try to bargain.

( Guess since he is the boss and thus more open for negotiation. I really encounter those that have a sudden mood swing! WT )

3) Prompt reply for the initial quotation. Took him 2 days. Acceptable for me.

4) No direct rejection to our design idea.... but eventually he will propose similar solution ( Haha, at least don't feel so insulted! The ideas all come from Mr Google ya )

5) Both me and my wife feel he is very easy going though he looks a bit beng... Haha, never judge a book by its cover ya.

( Example : We choose $4.20psf Wall Tiles for the common toilet, I ask how much to top up, he just say never mind la, Toilet not that big, still can absorb! Haha, most other ID, Contractor will be playing with their calculator at this question. FYI, normally is top up between $400 to $600 )

6) Brought us to 4 units ( Including my Sis place ) to see his works. Overall Acceptable.

( NOTE: not for the perfectionist. As some materials used are cheaper type, like the cheaper quality of the laminates. It is quite obvious when under the light especially if you are going for those Piano white or Piano Black. I choose my own brand of laminates from a shop. And just direct him to get from them since the price will be park under his quotation. With his blessing and no extra charges of course, the laminates I choose are slightly higher in price, If you folks are interested, check out this link http://www.jennings.com.sg )

7) PRICE!!

Throughout this period, met all the different type of sales person, got friendly la, attitude la, super attitude lala! Really feeling tired...

1 particular sales I would like to comment. He is from Best Denki. Wife and me shopping for fridge, washing machine etc.

He offered his help, so we show him the models we like. He IMMEDIATELY say all the bad things about all the models we like sia!! Not waiting for a response, ask us to top up a bit more and bring us to see other models.

Guess what, I just walk away with my wife, and he showing the typical attitude face!

To me, salesperson can either make or break the deal. I really appreciate a good sales person when I see one. They can make your day!

Hope I can post out the SOR soon. Cheers

[bentan76 2]

Seems like a very good price! 5 Rm for 19k. I was quoted 20+ for just renovating masterbed room, 1 toilet, kitchen, L box, down lights.

Thanks for sharing the information, i will use your info as reference.

Thanks!

Bro, yours really seems high. Please look into other quotes as well. Unless you have a lot of carpentry works. Might want to post the BQ for our reference

[bentan76 2]

Seems like a very good price! 5 Rm for 19k. I was quoted 20+ for just renovating masterbed room, 1 toilet, kitchen, L box, down lights.

Thanks for sharing the information, i will use your info as reference.

Thanks!

Glad I can help!