Industrial Loft Concept - Bachelor Pad

[alfredt 27]

ID vs contractor

I think most reno-talkers struggle with this question. A considerable number of people no doubt spend ALOT of time meeting IDs and contractors.

After reviewing a lot of experiences and accounts from reno-talkers, it's well known that ID is more expensive than contractor

Economically, they must charge more than contractor since they are the additional project managers and designers and afterall must engage a contractor to do the work

Some conservative estimates point to IDs charging about 30% mark-up from contractor based on these services. This is probably the accepted median

It is not surprising if the mark-up is higher especially if the ID firm is big. They have bigger advertising budgets for TV/print/internet, bigger shopfronts and bigger exhibition booths i.e. bigger mark-ups, probably 50% upwards of contractor price. Also, all the big bosses in the ID firm who don't do projects and generate business need to be paid fat salaries

Nonetheless, there are some contractors who are trying to go up the value chain and have ID services as well. No doubt they will charge ID type prices. I met a contractor like this. You know this immediately once the contractor offers 3D drawings, throws in freebies, has an in-house designer etc - all ID-like characteristics.

Conversely, there are ID firms which are just starting out and growing their business. They tend to have lower margins in order to get volume and grow their portfolio. These will be cheaper and may be somewhat comparable to an average contractor pricing. However, they still need to pay a contractor to carry out all the reno so how do they manage to get comparable contractor pricing. There will probably be less people working on the wet works, tiling, demolitions, erecting walls, carpentry etc. Project may face delays because there is inadequate manpower to get the job done. Moreover, once everything completed, they won't entertain many rectification works.

For me, it was a relatively simple decision. I wanted as cheap a reno to achieve the desired look/feel. Although I'm not a designer and have zero experience in reno, I knew the look that I wanted to achieve. There are very few IDs which can do industrial designs, simply because they turn to "standard" designs. This is to save effort and resource for them since they have done many projects in a certain look/feel. These are mostly modern contemporary.

Having said that, choosing a contractor meant I needed to do ALOT more research on my own. I started to gather a lot of info about reno, the process, the materials and the rough pricing. To the point where people in the industry think I'm a contractor!

If there are reno-talkers out there in a similar situation, I hope this will help you eliminate wasting time with meeting too many IDs and contractors.

looking forward to learn from you.

[ProjectH 0]

Soooo which contractor hv u chosen?

[greglhc 30]

This one I will leave to the end cos reno not completed

If satisfactory, will recommend him openly

So far though, he has given me a lot of confidence!

Are u looking for contractor now?

Soooo which contractor hv u chosen?

[ProjectH 0]

Haha yes but shld b cfming one this week coz reno starts in less than a mth's time! Fingers crossed it will be the right man!

And u r absolutely rite, if u r getting a contractor, u have to do lots of research and thank goodness there are lots of info shared on renotalk!

[greglhc 30]

Choosing a contractor: my experience

I contacted a total of 5 contractors about 2 months before getting the key

1. first contractor I chanced upon his company on renotalk - no t-blogs named this contractor.

2. two contractors were through reading t-blogs on renotalk - the owners openly recommended these contractors

3. the remaining were through friends

First I contact them via phone - speak to them - see whether can communicate

Then described the reno work briefly. Then sent floor plan with scope of work via email.

The floor plan and scope of work should be the same for every contractor you send to.

This will help you to compare the quotation across all of them.

My considerations were

1. Relatively lean budget

I was very upfront about stating that I wanted to keep costs low. To me that meant no fancy designs. I wanted a clean and updated space so I can furnish and decorate. One way to keep costs low is have as little work as possible e.g. minimize cabinetry and false ceilings. For instance no TV feature wall, no false ceiling in living room, no shoe cabinets, no fancy pole system wardrobe, no walk-in wardrobe (WIW). I managed to see quite a few budgets from reno-talkers and if you look closely cabinetry/feature walls are one of the big ticket items. Minimizing these items means these savings can be used to buy nice furniture/decor that can create the look you desire.

Also, no unnecessary hacking. Initially my plan was to hack the flooring of the living room/kitchen/bedroom and re-tile. However after speaking to one of the contractors, the floor is already flat! Why hack, just overlay instead! Moreover when they hack flooring, must re-do concrete screed and this may not be as smooth and flat. More hacking means more costs i.e. one more day of x number of banglas to hack floor, clear hubris, extra haulage costs. All these costs add up and also extra time needed!

Once I told them about my lean budget, immediately 2 contractors didn't bother to give me quotation anymore despite me sending floor plan and scope of work. That's good cos both parties dont waste time. I also would not bother following up. If they dont want your business, they dont want your business.

2. Able to start work on my reno once I get the key

Ask them directly whether the time frame you anticipate your reno to start and end is feasible for them. No point getting quotation then realise the contractor got too many projects and yours have to wait. If they are unable to commit resource to your reno project, confirm double confirm delay one. Also if after speaking with contractor and their next available follow-up appointment is like 2-3 weeks away, I immediately did not bother to follow-up. This guy likely very stretched among many projects and you will have to "fight" for his time and attention.

3. Experienced - must be able to tell me if my suggestion is not practical and offer alternatives

I think this one is quite intuitive. Very hard to assess and based on feel. I feel more comfortable when I describe my idea and the contractor immediately told me what his concerns were. Those that just say ok without much questions made me uncomfortable. Surely miss things out in the quotation and you will have lots of VO (variation order) later. This happened to me - I planned to hack the wall and one contractor just quote me for hacking and erecting a new wall. But missed out the costs of making good the hacked area. This involved getting a new false ceiling in kitchen i.e. few hundred bucks! So his quote was missing some vital components.

4. His network of sub-contractors

A good contractor is an excellent project manager and has good sub-cons that he engages i.e. tiling/wet works, demolitions/hacking, electrician, plumbing. Always ask where his sub-cons are from - Malaysia? China? Generally Malaysians will be better especially tiling. Demolitions/hacking - Bangla can already but usually have a Chinese supervisor. And another good question to ask is whether the sub-cons he usually engages will be doing your reno also. No point if he has good sub-cons but they are tied up in another project!

You can view workmanship of his sub-cons by visiting his completed projects. If the workmanship is satisfactory - ask whether the same sub-cons will be used for your project. Also when you view the project, take note of all the small details like how the air-con trunking/piping is hidden. See whether you can tell or not. If you cant tell, good! Heh

I was very fortunate to visit a reno-talkers EM and was very very impressed with the workmanship! Plus the contractor did it within a very lean budget and completed project AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. So rare that reno complete ahead of schedule lor! The owner was extremely grateful to the contractor and I could tell the contractor had a lot of pride in his work. Definitely very reassuring and made me confident to sign the quotation.

[heavenlyn 0]

Thanks for penning down your thoughts on the entire process as you go along! Looking forward to more pics!

[greglhc 30]

Some updates

Toilet tiling completed - level up! Yup some of the toilet walls will be concrete plaster only

Flooring selected - HERF from Evorich

Kitchen cabinet laminates and countertop - decided to have a wood-looking countertop to soften the "hardness" of the industrial theme

Wardrobe laminates - really like this wood laminate paired with the grey-ish one

[greglhc 30]

My first furniture purchase - the 3 seater sofa from mountain teak.

I actually viewed it last weekend and really wanted to get it but resisted because don't want buyer's regret.

However, I couldn't get it out of my head and after viewing many other sofas, I knew I had to go back to my love at first sight

Really love the wood arm-rest panels and the gun-metal legs.

Also the firmness of the cushions.

[oldskool 2]

good progress! we saw the same piece of sofa from mountain teak, great choice. im sure will fit well into your theme.

[greglhc 30]

Thanks! I hope so too.

good progress! we saw the same piece of sofa from mountain teak, great choice. im sure will fit well into your theme.

Planning to buy this bedframe - gunmetal colour. Really like the colour and also the ledge at the headboard area

[greglhc 30]

Bought a mattress at the Expo a couple of weeks back

There were dozens and dozens of mattresses to try and eventually got really confused with the brands

Nonetheless my requirement was that mattress must be super firm - used to it all my life

So went to King Koil and found a suitable ICA approved one

I was a bit curious how King Koil mattress compared to other brands

Specifically Magic Koil since I found one reasonably priced one there

"Auntie ah - King Koil 跟 Magic Koil 什么差别?"

The auntie's response is classic:

"Prrlease la Magic Koil! 你跟 Magic Koil compare 那里可以! 你跟 Simmons compare then same la!"

She was so cheesed off

The simmons mattress was indeed very good. The sales auntie there even claimed that Goh Chok Tong uses Simmons

But the price is more than double so kuai kuai went back King Koil

[oldskool 2]

you can also take a look at this bedframe:

http://www.picketandrail.com/collections/chicago/products/chicago-bed-with-drawers

we got this for our place, and now thinking that since yours is a industrial theme, might fit in

just for reference/consideration.

cheers

Edited August 18, 2013 by oldskool

[greglhc 30]

Haha. I nearly went for this actually.

The sales guy quoted me a good price too.

I think our tastes/theme is very similar!

you can also take a look at this bedframe:

http://www.picketandrail.com/collections/chicago/products/chicago-bed-with-drawers

we got this for our place, and now thinking that since yours is a industrial theme, might fit in

just for reference/consideration.

cheers

[greglhc 30]

Concrete appearance wall panel for living room. Help to hide cables from TV and AV equipment also

Unfortunately will arrive only in end Sept/early Oct so gotta be patient

[wtg54 0]

Hi Greglhc,

The concrete look panels look very much like the real thing. Mind letting me know what sort of product is it and the costs.

Thanks.