A Re-Construction Nightmare Brewing - Not A Single Brick Laid Yet

[yunn26 2]

My Single storey semi-d orginally started out as a conservative A&A undertaken by an ID to;

1) Renovate existing 1st floor of 1500SF

2) Add an "Attic" of about 650SF - made out of 25mm woodplank.

3) Change the roof

4) Add big side garden patio and new front garage roof.

Total damage - $290K

After engaging an Architect/PE, my ID realized her brilliant A&A design was too big, so had re-classify as 'Re-Construction".

As part of the new deal - I topped up a further $12K to maximise the 2nd floor to 1000SF. Double the Professional & Submission Fees ( from $15K - change to $30K )

Total Damage now after first cock up - $$330K

After submitting to URA & BCA. URA approved which was great - then BCA demanded for a soil report based on my PE's submission - I refused b/c mine was a marginal re-con, orginally an A&A design (with 25mm wooden plank as 2nd floor) hardly exceed the 75kilo-pascal weight you find in bigger reconstructions. BCA relented - so I save 5K.

Now I find out FSB rejected my 25mm wooden plank 2nd floor - Demand that the entire 2nd floor now must be RConcrete floor PLUS BOMB SHELTER, PLUS Soil Test.

ID now proposed additional costs for this new fiasco;

To Do RC FLOOR & Bomb Shelter - add S$63K

Submissions - add another $9K

Soil Test - Ad another $5K

Total Damage now S$400K plus.

Not mentioned is the added time for submissions or re-submissions.

I am not against doing RC floor, it just so happened the original A&A plan was to save cost, so obviously no RC floors which does add alot more building and submission costs - it just how incremental things have gotten even before work has started.

I will appreciate any feedback on my experience thus far - if the soil test or bomb shelter requirement is an overkill for a relatively small project like mine, the top up for RC floor ( 1000 SF add 63K to the original 18K charge - so should be net about 80K for the RC floor for 1000SF)

Thanks.

[rogerlohyk 0]

Hi yunn26,

Firstly, I have these few questions for you:

1) You selected and engaged your designer through recommendation, exhibition promotion, showroom walk-in comparison etc.?

2) Do you know whether do they have prior experience in doing such landed properties?

3) Did they design your house from the architectural point of view 1st or just basically focusing on interior designing with no assistance from architects / professional engineers?

4) How much commitment fee have you paid them (very crucial)?

5) What is your confidence and comfort level now with the team of people you're working with to build your dream home?

Your current experience is very close to what I've encountered recently.

Best regards,

Roger

[pantieileen 2]

Totally different from mine in 2010.

1) architect drew 2 plans 3 storey if we need to soil test and pile w/bomb shelter, 2.5storey if soil test piling bomb shelter not required

2) builder calculate both costs

3) pay 10% to builder and architect based on 2.5storey

4) submit to BCA URA and wait

5) URA BCA approve 2.5storey

6) start work on 2.5 storey

7) brick start to lay only at 50% completion stage

Seems like your ID and architect don't have enough experience

[rogerlohyk 0]

Totally different from mine in 2010.

1) architect drew 2 plans 3 storey if we need to soil test and pile w/bomb shelter, 2.5storey if soil test piling bomb shelter not required

2) builder calculate both costs

3) pay 10% to builder and architect based on 2.5storey

4) submit to BCA URA and wait

5) URA BCA approve 2.5storey

6) start work on 2.5 storey

7) brick start to lay only at 50% completion stage

Seems like your ID and architect don't have enough experience

Oh you did some works in 2010, and recently doing it again?

Your above steps seems correct but the initial part of engaging an ID 1st before approaching architects / professional engineers and builders seem not too advisable, unless the ID had prior experience in building houses. Anyway this is just my personal opinion, correct me if I'm wrong.

The experience I had recently was not for my house, it's another friend's house and I introduced a design and build team to help them solve it. I was in a way involved as they're my close friends, I was just helping.

[pantieileen 2]

I didn't hire an ID, went to national library at bugis borrowed books, use camera and took pictures of designs I wanted, flash to my builder and architect in 1 meeting. They tell me it's possible to do.

I'm not designer trained or architecturally inclined, biochemist by natural. So I believed one can save alot of cost by doing own research.

Ya shopping at corner terrace or semiD since market is down. Saw a few new developer built ones at crazy prices. 3800sqft land 6400sqft built in at $7.8m min and old ones similar size land 3500sqft for 4-5m, same district. But I don't need so big lah. Adopted larger dogs, 1 extra car so need more garden space and carpark.

[XC90 0]

Never ever allow ID to undertake any landed A&A or re-construction works.

ID is good only for interior design works & interior space planning but not experienced nor competent with structural, engineering, approval process with relevant authority for project of such size or capacity in my opinion.

For such projects, it's always good to engage experienced builders ( land projects) or pay an architect to save all these hassles and troubles.

Alot of ID firm will want to take up entire jobscope of such capacity and end of the day, they still have to engage 3rd party structural engineers, architects ( Use their license for approval submission etc) so all these add up hidden cost you will not know.

After viewing many projects and references, I shortlisted my builder who is very good & experienced and has his own architect, engineer etc whom I believed he worked with them for long time and in my opinion it's very crucial for builder + architect + engineer to work in tandem happily for easily submission. Total architect and professional engineer fee only cost me $25K.

So far the progress is very good and in a breeze which is key for my speedy completion so I can move in soon.

I guess now, you really have to speak to your ID or architect if not it will surely hinder project progress which I have seen many home owner suffered due to this....

[yunn26 2]

Totally different from mine in 2010.

1) architect drew 2 plans 3 storey if we need to soil test and pile w/bomb shelter, 2.5storey if soil test piling bomb shelter not required

You are saying that at 2.5 storey may not need soil test or bomb shelter, but 3 storey need?

What are the thresh-holds for both?

Mine is a 2 storey, 1st floor only A&A type of work, but adding a full second floor of about 1000 SF. - Does Fire safety require bombshelters typically?

Edited July 24, 2013 by yunn26

[yunn26 2]

Now too late to turn back and investigate if should use Architect or not - My budget was about 200 - 300K max, most Architects wont even want to touch.

I had many builders come and quote - almost always 600K - 1MIL for 2 storey ( Semi-D )

So it was mostly a budget contrained decision - IDs consstently quoted about about 300L plus

[pantieileen 2]

You are saying that at 2.5 storey may not need soil test or bomb shelter, but 3 storey need?

What are the thresh-holds for both?

Mine is a 2 storey, 1st floor only A&A type of work, but adding a full second floor of about 1000 SF. - Does Fire safety require bombshelters typically?

Mine was 3yr ago, at that point of time, don't need soil test and bomb shelter for reconstruction. A full 3storey would mean i exceed extra GFA by more than 50% and for only 3-4pax family size, we don't need that big.

[pantieileen 2]

btw, saw some nice features during new SD openhouse

1) parquet and marble skirting are flushed with the wall. I've seen those at sentosa cove before and wanted my builder to do it but he said i must pay for extra capping so ok nvm can live with it so never do

2) marble bathroom but the shower area is made of stone and the area outside the shower where u stand is sunken in forthe water to floor into the manhole. I guess this means one won't slip and fall when showering in marble bathroom esp for old folks

Edited July 24, 2013 by pantieileen

[Lauer 15]

My Single storey semi-d orginally started out as a conservative A&A undertaken by an ID to;

1) Renovate existing 1st floor of 1500SF

2) Add an "Attic" of about 650SF - made out of 25mm woodplank.

3) Change the roof

4) Add big side garden patio and new front garage roof.

Total damage - $290K

After engaging an Architect/PE, my ID realized her brilliant A&A design was too big, so had re-classify as 'Re-Construction".

As part of the new deal - I topped up a further $12K to maximise the 2nd floor to 1000SF. Double the Professional & Submission Fees ( from $15K - change to $30K )

Total Damage now after first cock up - $$330K

After submitting to URA & BCA. URA approved which was great - then BCA demanded for a soil report based on my PE's submission - I refused b/c mine was a marginal re-con, orginally an A&A design (with 25mm wooden plank as 2nd floor) hardly exceed the 75kilo-pascal weight you find in bigger reconstructions. BCA relented - so I save 5K.

Now I find out FSB rejected my 25mm wooden plank 2nd floor - Demand that the entire 2nd floor now must be RConcrete floor PLUS BOMB SHELTER, PLUS Soil Test.

ID now proposed additional costs for this new fiasco;

To Do RC FLOOR & Bomb Shelter - add S$63K

Submissions - add another $9K

Soil Test - Ad another $5K

Total Damage now S$400K plus.

Not mentioned is the added time for submissions or re-submissions.

I am not against doing RC floor, it just so happened the original A&A plan was to save cost, so obviously no RC floors which does add alot more building and submission costs - it just how incremental things have gotten even before work has started.

I will appreciate any feedback on my experience thus far - if the soil test or bomb shelter requirement is an overkill for a relatively small project like mine, the top up for RC floor ( 1000 SF add 63K to the original 18K charge - so should be net about 80K for the RC floor for 1000SF)

Thanks.

If I am not wrong, we discussed your case before.

Not trying to create fear, but if I were you I would very seriously review the whole thing to see if I would proceed furtherr using this team(s).

Add up the money you paid, plus other liability due when terminating the contract, and compare with the total cost, then decide.

Adding a floor is not simple from the construction process point of view; I mean, it is far easier to build a 3rd storey when it is a rebuilding, but not so for reconstruction. There would likely be reinforcement needed on the existing building to support the weight of an additional floor. You would need a very experienced, reliable builder to do this, not some IDs who now is the boss for whatever builder he is using. Safety is paramount.

I took a quick look at the cost, $63,000 for the floor plus HS, your ID must be kidding you. For certain, this number would jump when you proceed. I have nothing against IDs, but have mentioned so many times in this forum, don't use an ID for this kind of project. I think I wrote somewhere about my ID, a brilliant guy, who messed up a project like this for another client.

Good luck!

[puppet 0]

Totally different from mine in 2010.

1) architect drew 2 plans 3 storey if we need to soil test and pile w/bomb shelter, 2.5storey if soil test piling bomb shelter not required

2) builder calculate both costs

3) pay 10% to builder and architect based on 2.5storey

4) submit to BCA URA and wait

5) URA BCA approve 2.5storey

6) start work on 2.5 storey

7) brick start to lay only at 50% completion stage

Seems like your ID and architect don't have enough experience

hi pantileen,

Could I ask you what does 2.5 storey means?

Because I got conflicting information from different builders, could you share with me what your 2.5 storey tanslate to.

I was given the following information by different builders, and cant find relevant information from BCA websites,

1. Some told me it is an additional 3rd storey that can be up to 50% of my current existing 2nd storey.

2. Another told me that 0.5 storey simply means the entire 3rd storey is merely a rooftop garden that can be 100% of the land area of the 2nd storey

3. One last builder shared with me that 0.5 storey can mean that the 3rd storey could by an additional 3rd storey up to 50% of the 2nd level and the remaining 50% could be used as a roof top garden/ open patio

thank you so much!

[yunn26 2]

If I am not wrong, we discussed your case before.

Not trying to create fear, but if I were you I would very seriously review the whole thing to see if I would proceed furtherr using this team(s).

Add up the money you paid, plus other liability due when terminating the contract, and compare with the total cost, then decide.

Adding a floor is not simple from the construction process point of view; I mean, it is far easier to build a 3rd storey when it is a rebuilding, but not so for reconstruction. There would likely be reinforcement needed on the existing building to support the weight of an additional floor. You would need a very experienced, reliable builder to do this, not some IDs who now is the boss for whatever builder he is using. Safety is paramount.

I took a quick look at the cost, $63,000 for the floor plus HS, your ID must be kidding you. For certain, this number would jump when you proceed. I have nothing against IDs, but have mentioned so many times in this forum, don't use an ID for this kind of project. I think I wrote somewhere about my ID, a brilliant guy, who messed up a project like this for another client.

Good luck!

Thanks - appreciate the heads up - the builder is actually a reputable firm with con-current projects at NUS, building some aquatics centre. The 63K top-up ( 18K plus 63K ) was given directly by the builder - unlikely with any margins added by the ID.

[ilovebuilding 0]

for an A&A works usually bomb shelter is not required. Recon work you might be to apply for wavier. Architect/QP/PE who are experience enough should be able to tell you that.
Rebuilt work... i havent come across a project which manage to get a wavier.

soil test depends on BCA but Some PEs will be able to ask wavier with justification or they have contacts who have a soil test report done in the vicinity.

FSB? hum.. 4 levels usually requires FSB inspection. But if you are doing 2.5 u usually does not need FSB inspection. do you have a basement? 3.5 will be consider as 4 levels to FSB.

Hopes the above clear some doubts.

[pantieileen 2]

for an A&A works usually bomb shelter is not required. Recon work you might be to apply for wavier. Architect/QP/PE who are experience enough should be able to tell you that.

Rebuilt work... i havent come across a project which manage to get a wavier.

soil test depends on BCA but Some PEs will be able to ask wavier with justification or they have contacts who have a soil test report done in the vicinity.

FSB? hum.. 4 levels usually requires FSB inspection. But if you are doing 2.5 u usually does not need FSB inspection. do you have a basement? 3.5 will be consider as 4 levels to FSB.

Hopes the above clear some doubts.

Rules change liao. You only can "borrow" soil test results from immediate next door neighbors and not even 2doors away or in the vicinity