Guides To Renovation

[zero313 2]

Dear all,

would like to have feedbacks on the kind of topics which most of you will benefit from. I am trying to put my knowledge into words to allow others to benefit from it.

feel free to let me know which are the areas needed.

mrcontractor

Hi, this is very informative. You have covered hacking, tiling, carpentry; any insights on Electrical and Networking?

[Mrcontractor 7]

Dear all,

would like to have feedbacks on the kind of topics which most of you will benefit from. I am trying to put my knowledge into words to allow others to benefit from it.

feel free to let me know which are the areas needed.

mrcontractor

[Mrcontractor 7]

Topic 3.2

Direct pricing and tips on Carpentry works

Hi everyone, I managed to retrieve my account in renotalk! today, I am going to write about carpentry works

Most of renovation projects consist of a major part in carpentry. Especially in residential properties. And it is the most crucial part of the project which plays a big part in your design and the overall look of the house. I have worked with many carpenters before and of course at times having a big headache on the workmanship issues.

The most important thing in carpentry works is the quality and 2nd the workmanship. Let me give you a rough idea of how does the direct price looks like when contractor hire sub-cons to do it.

Kitchen cabinet : $80-$100 per ft run

Casement door wardrobe : $160-$180 per ft run

Glass sliding door wardrobe : $200-$220 per ft run

Tv console feature wall : $15 psf

Tv console : $90-$100 per ft run

Vanity cabinet: $90-$100 per ft run

Full height cabinet : $250-$300 per ft run

This can be use as a reference. However, there are many many different prices in the market for carpentry because of con/ID mark up and also the workmanship. I have personally used the cheapest and the most expensive ones as comparison. I cannot say that the most expensive ones gave me the best quality though and the cheapest doesn’t mean the lousiest as well.

The easiest way to see the quality of wood is the weight of the doors. there are some who gave solid wood which was real heavy. But do take note that at times, solid wood will have warping issues.

Since the carpentry works start off in the factory before it comes to your house, it is important to have QC once it start installation in your house. I will recommend home owners to take a look while they install just in case if any mistakes of placement. And the con/ID will be checking on the workmanship and finishes.

Other than the quality of wood, I suggest getting better brands of laminate instead. Your con/ID will probably restrict you to specific range of laminates. There will always be a price list in the catalogue itself (some remove it though) and you can do a check accordingly if you want to know the price of it.

Outsourcing in the carpentry works can be done very easily if the design is not so complex. that subjects to the con/ID will be comfortable with it as well. Most carpenter will be able to show u simple drawings. Do make sure you make an initial on the finalised drawings with measurements preferably and keep a copy for yourself. To prevent any conflicts or misunderstanding in between. As the dimensions of carpentry works is very important.

The price in the con/ID market for carpentry is really WIDE. it can range even more if you are getting a premium one. My advice is that, Do ensure the quality of works is reasonable for the amount paid for. Carpenter industry is pretty hot right now due to the Bto especially. the price will probably go up in future when more and more carpenters are needed.

I received many PMs for questions on renovation. But that was dated last year, sorry for the delay all! you are free to PM me or post here if you do have any questions.

Have a good day everyone!

[mrcontractor2 2]

Topic 4

How to prevent getting cheated and scammed by contractors/ID

Recently I read about many of the scams and cheats in this industry. Why is that so? Because it is simple for them to open and close down companies without having the need of being sued. The amount for a customer to be cheated of during renovation scams hardly to be above hundred of thousands per person. Therefore, going through all the civil proceedings will waste even more money on the victim’s side and there is no guarantee that he/she may get back the amount. Then, the culprit goes off scott free!

I feel the need of giving advices on prevention of getting into this kind of scenario.

1. Reviewing the contractor/ID’s reputation

This might not be 100% accurate because there are some firms who advertise themselves. but for sure, those who advertise themselves but doesn’t deliver as promised will have their bad reviews coming by. Keep the minds open and even if you see bad reviews, do contact the home owner to get more facts. And on the other hand, you can get more info from the good ones as well.

2. Research on HDB and ACRA

If you are renovating your Hdb, be very sure that the company is a licensed hdb contractor. most importantly, the contract which you are going to sign bear the letter head of the hub registered one instead of some other names. They will usually say that it is due to GST etc. Although there are those who are really sincere in business but just to be on the safe side. ACRA search is one of the important one as well, give it a search and screen through the company address and make sure it is valid. If at any point of time now you feel something is not right, I will suggest getting another contractor/ID. Because better to be safe than sorry.

3. Ask for showrooms/ reno in progress flats

Do ask the contractor/ID if there are any REAL showrooms instead of those in the office etc. look for projects the company done before. and also current ones. where you can see that the company is really into business. If possible, ask for a timing where the owner is in to research more on the firm. I will recommend minimum 2 showroom flats to view and one of it have to be going to complete or just completed. when you are at on-going sites, be sure to find the renovation permit from HDB to double confirm their license as well

4. Be alert

Be alert in the payment progress. Do not give much more than what you see in your house. there is no fix rule for this because different quotations works differently. If you stay alert, you will have better control of your money. even if the company winds down, you do not lose the maximum.

Some might wonder why I did not recommend for checking on RADAC, CASE etc. Because no matter how many prizes, trophies or accreditation the company have, it only help to the minimal when there are problems arising. To prevent ourselves being a victim, we have to know if the company is a true and operating for legal profits through hardwork and sales. HDB licensed contractor will be a safer one because to become one, they will have to submit invoices of minimum $50k to support and also to be in the business for minimum of 1 year. HDB will then contact the various house owners for feedback before grant.

The most important is that when you sign the contract, there should be no room for doubts. All questions should be cleared by then. of course sometimes we are so unlucky when all things seems to be alright and yet suddenly the company shut down. I have seen a few friends in this line whose business are good but due to some unforeseen factors, they are forced to close. but they are not cheaters or scammers, it is pure business failure. Feel free to ask if you have any questions! I might not be free everyday but i will try my best to reply.

I hope all these tips will be useful for home owners and fellow forummers

[mrcontractor2 2]

Hi everyone,

Was quite busy with family hence the thread is not active. overlook on the reply for some forumers previously, am so sorry about that. and some who emailed me i didn’t had the chance to reply. now I’m back to the forum to continue my posts.

If you are wondering about the username, because i lost the password and i created a 2nd acc. pls stay tune for more tips on renovation=D

feel free to ask me questions if in doubt. once again i stressed that there will be no selling of things here.

Cheers to all

[linsullen 10]

A really useful post!

[kusudama 0]

Yes it is! Thank you for finding it!

[missydeer 1]

This is a good read! Too bad its not active anymore.

[EYS 0]

Dear MrContractor,

It is definitely helpful for your posts thus far! Look forward to hear more from you!

Regards,

EYS

[gryffindor 2]

herehere:Topic 2

Finding/ Comparing Quotes

This is the part where the first major decision and the most important decision to be made during the renovation. And usually it is always tiring and time-consuming.

- It is best to compare both ID and contractor price to have a feel of what the price difference is like

- The number of quotes you are going to find solely depends on your personal preference. What I reccomend is that, eg, you are going for an ID, do look for 3-5 quotes for comparison. Try not to go beyond 10 as it will usually make you confused over their suggestions on materials design. And at the end of the day you dont know which is more exp or which is cheaper.

- Different companies have different ways to type out a quote. Usually we(contractors) will try to make the quote differently as it will make you difficult to compare.

- This first step of all the quotes comparison is to have all of them carries similar items at least 85%. This will make your comparing much much easier

Topic 3

Going through a quote

Alot of people asked about quotes like eg. Is this quote detailed enough? Is there anything missing on the quote? is this quote expensive? To have a detailed quote, there are so many things to look out for. During my days as a contractor, ive heard of same-trade friends trying to play with words or leave out some details to make more profits when they ask customer to top up when they ask for this or that.

I will extract a quote which i find in RT through here as an example:

(This should be a HDB new house as there is no hacking involved)

1. Supply labor & tiles to lay 641sqft homogenous tiles for 3 bedrooms,

Passageway, suggestion study, Living & Dining (Not more than $3.20 tiles)

641sqft x $8.00 per sqft $5128.00

- Does the $3.20 includes GST? So to mean if i choose a tile priced at $3.20 before gst is it within the quote?

- 641 sqft will be fixed or subject to changes? (Usually no changes but since the quote is real exact better to play safe)

- Size of the tiles? 60x60cm or can go any bigger?

- Are we able to choose tiles from any supplier or only specific ones? (please take note that tiles supplier give rebates to contractor)

- In any case if you choose another kind of tile for any of the areas will there be extra charges?

2. Supply labor & tiles to run 260ft homogenous tiles skirting 3 bedrooms,

Passageway, suggestion study, Living & Dining 260ft x $6.00 per ft $1560.00

-Same thing, is 260ft fixed or still subject to changes? (Maybe if there is some calculation mistake or if the designer forgot to count in one part meaning pr ft is $6?. therefore is better to check)

3. Supply haulage, clear debris, cement, sand, W1 and delivery of material $850.00

- Usually you can check this price when you call the debris hotline at the notice on the lift area. so the price is usually more or less there

4. Supply labor to construct kitchen base, washing machine base $450.00

-Tiles is it included? will you get the tiles directly from the developer or building management?

5. Supply labor to construct L-box @ Living area 48.5ft x $13/- per ft $630.50

- how wide is the Lbox? The common sizes are 12", 16" or 18". The wider it gets, the more exp it goes. So better to check for the size quoted

6. Supply labor to construct false ceiling @ Dining area & suggestion study

214sqft x $4/- per sqft $856.00

- False ceiling is quite straight forward. In this case it is only the sqft whether it is fixed or etc.

7. Supply labor to install 2 units of instant water heater @ 2 toilets

$60/- per unit x 2 unit $120.00

- Does it include the heater pt as well?(usually the common bathroom does not have any heater pt as new HDB comes in hot and cold pipes).

- If there is existing heater pt, Does it include the connection of the wiring?

8. Supply labor to install 2 sets spray gun @ 2 toilets $50/- per set x 2 sets $100.00

- Nil

9. Supply labor to connect kitchen sink tap $90.00

- Nil

10. Supply labor to dismantle the existing sink & connect install sink & tap @ common toilet $120.00

-Nil

11. Supply & install 10mm thick clear glass temper glass divider @ Master toilet $250.00

- Length of it?

12. Supply & install L-shape power coated aluminum Acrylic sliding door @ common toilet $580.00

- Can we have designs or plain colour only?

- Do take a look at the samples first for the colours provided

13. Supply & install L6ft x 8ft clear mirror @ Dining area wall (with false ceiling) $960.00

48sqft x $20/- per sqft = $960.00 (option 1)

- how many piece does it cut into?

- Framed or framless?

14. Supply & install L6ft x 8.5ft clear mirror @ Dining area wall (w/o false ceiling)

51sqft x $20/- per sqft = $1020.00 (option 2) $1020.00

- As above

15. Supply & install L6ft x 8ft grey mirror @ Dining area wall (with false ceiling)

48sqft x $28/- per sqft = $1344.00 (option 1) $1344.00

- As above

16. Supply & install L6ft x 8.5ft grey mirror @ Dining area wall (w/o false ceiling)

51sqft x $28/- per sqft = $1428.00 (option 2) $1428.00

- As above

17. Supply & install L4ft suspended carpentry vanity cabinet @ Master toilet

Using plywood, internal with white pvc, external with laminate finish

Swing door with soft close hinges & ABS edging $120/- per ft x 4ft $480.00

- Top included?

- Is it solid plywood?

- Soft closing hinges brand? ( of course blum is the better ones)

- What is the laminate brand given?

18. Supply & install 5mm L4ft x H5ft clear mirror sitting on top the solid table @ Master toilet

$20/- per sqft x 20sqft $400.00

- Nil

19. Supply & install L3ft suspended carpentry vanity cabinet @ common toilet

Using plywood, internal with white pvc, external with laminate finish

Swing door with soft close hinges & ABS edging $120/- per ft x 3ft $360.00

- As above

20. Supply & install L3ft solid surface top for vanity @ common toilet

$75/- per ft x 3ft $225.00

- Brand of the solid surafce?

- Any backsplash given?

- What front profiles are available within the quoted amount?

21. Supply & install L3ft x H5ft 5mm clear mirror @ common toilet

15sqft x $20/- per sqft $300.00

-Nil

22. Supply & install L6.5ft x L6ft L-shape modular system closet @ Master room

C/w partition frame, internal using melamine board with free configuration,

Aluminum glass sliding door 1st 5ft - $1500/- Additional ft - $250/-

12.5ft – 1ft @ corner = 11.5ft – 5ft = 6.5ft x $250/- per ft = $1625/-

$1500/- + $1625/- = $3125/- $3125.00

- Melamine info can be found here ( I prefer plywood though)

- Check the number of drawerrs given as usually the drawers are the more exp stuff to fabricate

23. Supply & install L6ft modular system closet @ Bedroom 2

C/w partition frame, internal using melamine board with free configuration,

Aluminum glass sliding door 1st 5ft - $1500/- Additional ft - $250/-

6ft – 5ft = 1ft x $250/- = $250/- + $1500/- = $1750/- $1750.00

-As above

24. Supply & install L6ft modular system closet @ Bedroom 3

C/w partition frame, internal using melamine board with free configuration,

Aluminum glass sliding door 1st 5ft - $1500/- Additional ft - $250/-

6ft – 5ft = 1ft x $250/- = $250/- + $1500/- = $1750/- $1750.00

- As above

25. Supply & install L6.5ft modular system closet @ Suggestion Study

C/w partition frame, internal using melamine board with free configuration,

Aluminum glass biford door 1st 5ft - $1500/- Additional ft - $250/-

6.5ft – 5ft = 1.5ft x $250/- = $375/- + $1500/- = $1875/- $1875.00

- As above

26. Supply & install L6ft x H6ft (36sqft) feature wall for TV console @ Living

Using plywood, laminate finish $22/- per sqft x 36sqft = $792/-

Supply & install L8ft suspended carpentry TV console @ Living

Using plywood, internal pvc white, external laminate finish

$120/- per ft x 8ft = $960/- $1752.00

- Solid ply?

- Any glass or design on the TV console?

- Drawers or flip down doors? Glass on the console door? ( take note that you need to have glass at your Tv console door surface as the remote sensor cannot get through thick woods)

27. Supply & install L7ft wooden plank @ Bedroom 2 & 3

Using plywood, laminate finish 7ft x $35/- per ft x 2 bedrooms $490.00

- any support bracket? Whats the max depth?

28. Supply & install 10mm thick frosted swing door temper glass @ kitchen entrance $580.00

- can we design the frosted film? Any add charges?

29. Supply & install L22ft Top & bottom kitchen cabinet, using plywood, internal pvc white,

External laminate finish. C/w 1 cutlrey tray, 1 s/steel dish rack, all swing doors with soft

Close hinges & ABS edging

Top Cabinet - $120/- per ft x 7.5ft = $900/-

Bottom cabinet - $120/- per ft x 14.5ft = $1740/-

Supply & install 14.5ft Quatz table top - $120/- per ft x 14.5ft = $1740/-

Supply & install 2 sets of BLUM drawer track runner 30kg - $60/- per set x 2 sets = $120/- $4500.00

- As above

30. Supply & install L3.5ft x H8ft Full height carpentry shoe cabinet @ infront of foyer

Using plywood, internal pvc white, external laminate finish.

$280/- per ft x 3.5ft $980.00

- Any adjustable shelvings? If yes, how many shelvings are we entitled to?

31. Supply labor to acid wash floor after renovation $300.00

- How many times is the washing (2 times is prefered. Once after the tiling and partition works, once after all works)

Optional Items

• The bath room accessories installation per items - $8.00

- Nil.

Other questions:

-gst?

-warranty?

I will touch more on various item and the prices of it. Stay tuned!

Ps: feel free to PM me if you have any question on renovation. I will try to help as much as I can. Do take note that there is no business selling or product selling over here.

Thanks=D

Excellent post! It's one of the most useful ones i've seen here.

[plainsharon 20]

Wow.. This thread seems so helpful but seems like its not active.

[greglhc 30]

I wish mrcontractor would come back to the forum. must be enjoying his retirement!

[xibi 1]

Hi Mrcontractor,

i would like to check with you, if my completion date is roughly one year later from now, do i need to start thinking what design i would need to renovate in my BTO flat and comparing/checking the prices out??

And one more question is, mine is 4rm BTO flat - 93squared metre, how to count how much budget should i set aside for the tiles? I only need to tiles my kitchen, living room and 3 bedroom at least i don wan to get bluffed through when i go find the contractor whereby i only need like roughly these amount of tiles but they quote alot extra ?

[fayefayechow 0]

Hi Mr Contractor

Thank you very much for all your valuable advice.

I recently received a quotation for renovating my HDB flat. However noticed that alot of the quotes just stated supply labour to install XX, does it mean that i would have to purchase the item to be installed separately?

Eg: for Master bathroom

Supply labour to install accessories at $41 ,

supply labour to install wash basin at $81.

Supply labour to install spray jet at $27

supply labour to install additional outlet point at $27.

The above is then repeated for bathroom 2 with the same costings.

Does it mean that i will have to purchase and pay separately for wash basin, etc?

would apprecuiate if you could let me know if there is anything i should be aware of

thanks

Faye

[cysta 0]

Dear Mr Contractor,

Thank you for shedding light to me! Same Qus as mightyA, do you happen to have some contacts for contractors?

Btw I recently contacted this guy who is an agent and he can bring a reliable contractor he works with to my house to view first. What role does the agent normally play? Thank you!