What You Need To Know Before You Start Renovation

[zhiz 4]

Renovation tips

1.Charge for each additional electrical power point

*** Take note each additional electrical power point in the market nowadays is between $60-$70. Pls be ensure 2 way switch installation only costs $40 for lighting and pls ensure that the contractor has indicated everything clearly.

*** Take note also each installation of new lighting point is between $30-$40, some contractor may quoted more than $50 per point. Also pls do not ask the contractor to disconnect the power point when it has been done, as this also incurred costs and losses.

2. Cost of aircon wiring, re-wiring

*** The cost of aircon wiring and rewiring is always inclusive together with the air con equipment depends on the model you buy. For instance, a standard LG model costs around $1600 with installation. Pls do not be happy with the free gift the contractor provided together with the air con as the free gift is also one of the hidden costs in it. Nothing is free, pls bear in mind.

3. Quotation at time of signing does not included detailed specs of all materials used eg. acceptable price range for floor tiles given budget

**** You must always ask your contractor to state everything as clear as possible. The dimension as well as the type of floor tiles given. This is important.

4. Cost of clearing of debris and haulage

**** As per conversation with HDB council, the standard cost for clearing of debris and haulage is always at the cost of $215 inclusive of GST. Do not be surprised when contractor quote you more than $500 and do not get convinced by them when they told you the reason why it is so expensive. Some contractor will tends to tell you that they have rented a lorry to collect debris, this is not true. The lorry is provided by HDB who will do the clearing up. The contractor only needs to pay them $215 and everything will be done properly. Reason: HDB pay outsiders to do the clearing and this is liaise with the contractor and the HDB third party, when only a single receipt will be given. Best is to check with your HDB branch office.

HDB only collect debris fees on behalf of the town council cost won't be more than $250. you can get the print out copy by HDB from your contractor .

The haulage and buying of sand from the appointed contractor ( you can find their contact pasted at the lift lobby for new flats )should be paid by the contractor or the ID firm engaged .

Some contractor or so call " ID " firm will say the haulage fees is home owner should pay ( bout $ 800 or more )Don get CON . All these should be quote inside the contract under the tiling works .

Resale flats Town concil don't charge haulage fees as there is no more haulage contractor appointed by HDB station there .

Contractors will tends to quote more in their hauluge fees, pls take note.

5. Renovation permit costs

*** Renovation permit costs is always provided free when the contractor apply to HDB. There is no costs at all. You may check with HDB itself. Last time HDB used to charge around $200 for permit fees but not now. Policy has changed.

6. Cost of chemical wash

*** Pls take note chemical wash also can be called acid wash is between the cost of $95-$150. This done once or twice depends between contractor and owner. This only done after painting and flooring has completed and before the completion of kitchen cabinet.

7. Remember to check all water holes for any cement or sand. Some contractors may just throw the cement onto the pipe, which in the long run will cause leakage.

8. Cost of gas piping.

The contractor will liaise with City gas contractor for work to be done and this only incurred the cost of $70 per trip. As for the connection of gas piping to the cooker hood will be done separately on another day. The billing of gas piping will be send to your house by the PUB people and not the contractor .

9. Cost of painting.

The cost of painting is between $1100 - $1500. It normally consists of 5 colors Nippon or equivalent. Colours can be selected and adjustable.

10. Installation of bathroom accessories & electrical point.

*** This can be negotiable. You can discuss with the contractor to install these items FOC at your house. When the contractors said they will bring you to the shop to buy bathroom items, do not agree and follow them. This is another way of hidden costs appearing, as contractors may earn commission from there. Take note. The same goes with the lighting points and bulb. However if price difference is not much, its really more convenient to let the ID settle all the delivery plus installation. That’s what I did. You may buy direct and get your contractor to install also can.

For bathroom accessories and lighting, you may go to Jalan Besar or Geylang area to get it. Balestier can be considered but not all. Some places in Balestier tends to quote higher. I personally bought from lightings.com.sg.

11. When hacking walls, make sure contractors include touching up with tiles i.e. on the area that is being left exposed by the wall that is being hacked off.... otherwise some will charge u separately for those tiles.

12. Low price for kitchen cabinets can mean no frills like stainless steel dish racks etc. So you've to ask them to give you EVERY detail.

13. If you are installing ceiling fan, contractor will charge you around $25- $35 but can be negotiated.

14. If you are installing instant heater, contractor will charge you around $60 each. But can be negotiated.

15. Cabinet is treated wood or not.

16. Tell your ID you are getting your own switches and door knobs/lever handles, minus off the cost of those from the quote. If not, they must let you choose, they don't suka suka install some cheap ugly ones for you. For switches, you can buy nice clipsal ones at wholesale prices at Choo Chiang (Veerasamy Road). For me, as I did complete rewiring, the nice switches were given to me foc.

17. Open concept walk in wardrobe, this can be a nightmare for maintenance. I didn't do this, but some of my friends did, it was right outside their toilet, moisture attack, dust attack. I had my close door walk in wardrobe outside my toilet also. Some of my things turn mouldy. One tub of hungry hippo once a week is not economical.

18. If on budget, dont really need kitchen sliding door actually. I cooked often, i didnt have any kitchen sliding door. My living room is not affect at all

19. Above all, its important to select a reliable ID/contractor that has proven track record based on recommendation. That’s what I did when I visited my friend’s newly renovated home and she shared with me her pleasant reno experience. So I went for the same ID and my renovation was a breeze as ID was very responsive and check on site very often, sometimes mms pictures for us to see as updates as well. Avoid those popular ones on the forum as they often get overloaded with work and quality becomes poor. There are also horrible experiences of cheap contractor going mia with money as well. Its impt to be cost conscious but at least get a ID or contractor with HDB license. I did shop around and met many ID and after a while I realize that the pricing is roughly the same.

I also avoid those at expo as they tend to be inexperience and after all I do not want to be paying for their rental at expo exhibition ☺

sharing by another forum member

MISTAKE: Never carefully look into how much exactly ID's lighting proposal would cost.

I wish I had paid better attention to my ID's lighting proposal. I had assumed that the price of lighting fixtures was largely affected by design and shop/manufacturer, not so much the technology. A light is a light, right? I can always find something within my budget, right? WRONG! LED lights are very different than PLC lights. They are also a lot more expensive. They are not inter-changeable in many designs.

Lighting fixtures are not part of your ID's quotation so it's easy to overlook that when you talk to your ID about your reno budget. You generally will be focused on what he/she is charging you, and that's how their quotation will be broken down. They will also propose lights based on what works for their design, sometimes forgetting about cost.

So, make sure you ask your ID what type of lighting he/she is proposing, and how much it'll cost. If the lighting proposal calls for LED lighting, you're typically looking at almost $2000 upwards. If you go for PLC lights, you can do your house for half the price.

Actually, this leads to another lesson learnt

MISTAKE: Over-budget for ID, under-budget for everything else.

Thinking your ID's quotation will take up most of your renovation budget, and setting aside too much money for it alone. After all, most of the discussions here are about comparing ID quotations. In reality, your ID's quotation will probably be only 60-70% of your renovation budget. Items necessary but not included in the ID's quotation, like electrical appliances, aircon, furniture etc, can really add up!

Start with your final renovation budget (all things in) in mind, then work backwards. Reverse engineer your renovation. I think most people bust their renovation budget because they don't realise that there are many things which the ID doesn't provide. Appliances and furniture are the obvious examples, but there are many others, from lighting fixtures (see above) to bathroom accessories, curtains to mattresses, which are necessary for the house to be actually liveable.

Just to share my complete house pic and reno process

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v473/zhiz22/Reno/

[multi888 1]

Thank you for the valuable info...it really helps.

[anito 0]

We could easily sum this article up - you need to know everything before the renovation starts. Otherwise, you risk that you'll have to do something twice.

[Mbps72 0]

Nice to know there's such info.

[yandm 1]

Hi Zhiz,

Very appreciate if u can pm me ur contacts? Although I will be getting my new flat early next yr... I'm having a big headache with lots of worries on reno. thk u.

[ultimax 2]

Thanks Zhiz for compiling this thread. I think it's important for this info for newbies to be all in one place. Because there are so many areas that a newbie to renovations can be "makan-ed" in, sometimes without even knowing! I know - I learnt the hard way!

More contributions:

MISTAKE: Being too friendly with ID/contractor, trust them too much, never insist on proper project management admin.

If you like your ID/contractor, think they're very similar to you, same wavelength, same interest, would be someone you would be good friends with, be careful! Always remember your ID is a service provider, and this is a business contract. During the renovations, the ID works for you, and is not your friend!

There must be a certain amount of give and take, but at the end of the day, this is still a business contract worth thousands of dollars. So make sure the project management admin is done properly, hopefully in black and white. This includes a list of things you will get from the ID, and a schedule of when works will be completed. Never assume your ID will do something because your friend's ID did. For example, not all IDs will give you drawings or detailed plans. Also, make sure they give you a time-line. They will give you a payment schedule. You should insist on a works completed schedule with dates so that you can hold them accountable. Otherwise, things can easily become "rubber" and drag on.

MISTAKE: Not giving yourself enough time to spot mistakes at the end of renos.

Your ID will typically take you around the house once at the end of the reno to spot mistakes, rectify them, and once that is done, seek full payment. One walk around the house is insufficient for mistakes to be spotted. I would suggest you spend a few days walking through, with as many people as possible, because you may miss something. Even better if you can actually live in the house for a bit because mistakes become a lot more obvious when they inconvenience you (like a door that doesn't close properly, a leaking sink etc).

Write the problems down on paper and give them to your ID. Make sure they're accountable.

Make sure you withhold your final payment till you're 100% satisfied. Because if you pay in full, and there are problems, your ID will have less incentive to fix them for you quickly. Even if he wants to fix them for you, and is not out to cheat you, he will 100% allocate his resources to clients who haven't paid up in full yet, so you become last priority. With outstanding payment, he will want to fix them ASAP so that he can close the project and move on.

MISTAKE: Not setting aside enough time for renos

Renos take a lot longer than you think. The design phase can actually take longer than construction because you do not want to accept your ID's proposal right away, but take it home to think about. You also want to make sure your design is what you want, because once construction starts, it's expensive to change anything. And even before, if you keep changing your mind, your ID may start charging you for extra work. So take enough time to reflect upon your proposal, and don't OK everything right away, only to change your mind later.

The golden rule is not to rush into anything or you will regret it. The more homework you do, and the more time you have, the better your renos will be.

The tighter the timeline you have, the less flexibility you have, and the more corners may be cut. Especially towards the end, when you're hounding the ID to hurry up coz you move in. I find most IDs, esp the young ones, are like children doing homework. It's always a mad rush towards the end of the project because for whatever reason, the first part was slow and they dragged their feet. There will also always be delays.

If you know you want to reno, I would suggest you start planning and thinking the moment you get the floorplan. Don't wait till you get the keys. You will not have enough time.

[ultimax 2]

MISTAKE: Accepting the ID's recommendations for lighting points and electrical sockets without carefully thinking whether you really need that many lights/sockets.

As Zhiz pointed out, you have to really pay attention to lighting points and electrical sockets. Per unit, they may cost only a few tens of dollars. But because your place will have many of them, the total cost can really add up.

So, take some time to reflect upon your ID's recommendation of lighting points, and also pay attention to the number of sockets in each room. Ask yourself: Do I really need so many?

My ID initially suggested 8 sockets for the TV console area. You can imagine how much that would have cost! I reduced it by half, and even then, I still have a spare socket. I suppose the ID recommended so many because he assumed 1 appliance = 1 socket. But many times, multiple electrical devices can share one socket by simply using an adapter or a power strip. Each socket can support 13 Amps, and consumer appliances rarely use more than a single amp so it's actually very difficult to overload a socket. The main concern is heat but then, 3 devices to one socket is quite typical and safe.

The other thing to look out for is what's included in the installation of the electrical socket. Are you actually getting a new socket or will an old one be recycled? In my case, my place is a new BTO, and the ID simply recycled the HDB supplied socket. Sure, they were brand new and should be re-used, but there was no discount. Feel a bit cheated.

Also ask yourself: is it a new socket, or is it an old socket being relocated? To be honest, I'm not sure if there's an differentiation, whether relocation or fresh installation will be different. Maybe the industry "norm" is there's only one price. But logically, the prices should be different because I imagine one's easier than the other.

In sum, the golden question to ask is: DO I NEED IT? Pay attention to details. I know there are a lot of things in the quotation to pay attention to, but you can save a fair bit by not having unneccessary lights and sockets.

[ultimax 2]

MISTAKE: Accepting ID's recommendations of "standard" items without thinking whether you need/want them.

Some IDs/contractors adopt a "default" approach when it comes to designing certain areas of your house. This results in some things appearing as "standard" in any renovation, whereas you may actually have a choice of whether you want them or not.

3 things come to mind:

1. Curb for washing machine/fridge.

Do you really need a curb? It's $100-200 each. For the fridge, perhaps, just so your kitchen looks uniform. But for washing machine, I personally think the $10 set of 4 plastic blocks is enough. Some say the machine will vibrate and move so the blocks are not ideal. My experience is if you make sure your washing is level and not wobbly, there's no reason why the machine should vibrate that much. Also, the blocks have a little indentation that the machine legs can sit in, so even if it moves, the blocks will move with the machine, and it will not topple over.

2. Shower door/screen.

This is a few hundred dollars. Perhaps a shower curtain will be good enough?

But I recognise some people like the look of the shower door and that's fine. However, if you aren't particular, perhaps explore using a shower curtain. I've posted my experience with shower curtains elsewhere, and I'm very fond of them. Easier to clean and useful in small bathrooms.

3. Excessive storage space.

It's always nice to have more storage space, but do you really need that many cabinets? Think of your usage, and don't automatically go with what your ID recommends. I find a lot of my friends end up having more cabinet space than they really need. You can tell when you open the cabinets and see how empty or poorly used it is.

Build only what you need. Because cabinets are charged per foot run, you may be spending a lot more for something you don't need.

[ultimax 2]

MISTAKE: Not thinking about how high you want your kitchen counter / bathroom vanity top to be, and going with the "standard"

I believe the "standard" height in Singapore is 850 mm. If your contractor is lax with measurements, the counter may even be lower. But if you're tall, this may be too low for you, resulting in a need to hunch your back over. This is made worse if your sink is deep. The depth of the sink can make a big difference to comfort, especially in the kitchen.

As you'll be using these counter-tops very often, think long and hard about what's a good height for you. It can be quite a strain if you have to keep bending over, especially in the kitchen. I personally would go with about 900mm (I'm 1.76m and my wife's 1.6m tall), which is apparently the "standard" in the US. We find this to be the most comfortable. Unfortunately, we overlooked this, our ID didn't consult us, so we have a counter that's 830mm high, a deep kitchen sink, and a whole lot of back strain!

[sherylstyle 0]

hi

it's very good & useful to know your advice. Please share ur ID contact. thanks

[Nor Zakiah 1]

Hi can pm ur id too? Tks!

[vinny 0]

:good:

Good reading! Thanks for the advice.

is it possible to PM me your ID contact?

Cheers!

[EdmundOng 0]

MISTAKE: Not thinking about how high you want your kitchen counter / bathroom vanity top to be, and going with the "standard"

I believe the "standard" height in Singapore is 850 mm. If your contractor is lax with measurements, the counter may even be lower. But if you're tall, this may be too low for you, resulting in a need to hunch your back over. This is made worse if your sink is deep. The depth of the sink can make a big difference to comfort, especially in the kitchen.

As you'll be using these counter-tops very often, think long and hard about what's a good height for you. It can be quite a strain if you have to keep bending over, especially in the kitchen. I personally would go with about 900mm (I'm 1.76m and my wife's 1.6m tall), which is apparently the "standard" in the US. We find this to be the most comfortable. Unfortunately, we overlooked this, our ID didn't consult us, so we have a counter that's 830mm high, a deep kitchen sink, and a whole lot of back strain!

Hi ultimax,

Great post for highlighting the height of the kitchen counter-top.

How about the height of the kitchen top cabinet? Shall the cabinet door open at eye level or higher? Any advice on this? Thanks.

[ultimax 2]

Hi ultimax,

Great post for highlighting the height of the kitchen counter-top.

How about the height of the kitchen top cabinet? Shall the cabinet door open at eye level or higher? Any advice on this? Thanks.

My kitchen doesn't have overhung cabinets so I have no personal experience with them but this thread my answer your question:

http://www.renotalk.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=46323&st=0&p=695195&hl=+kitchen +cabinet +counter +height&fromsearch=1entry695195

[jetlee724 0]

Renovation tips

1.Charge for each additional electrical power point

*** Take note each additional electrical power point in the market nowadays is between $60-$70. Pls be ensure 2 way switch installation only costs $40 for lighting and pls ensure that the contractor has indicated everything clearly.

*** Take note also each installation of new lighting point is between $30-$40, some contractor may quoted more than $50 per point. Also pls do not ask the contractor to disconnect the power point when it has been done, as this also incurred costs and losses.

2. Cost of aircon wiring, re-wiring

*** The cost of aircon wiring and rewiring is always inclusive together with the air con equipment depends on the model you buy. For instance, a standard LG model costs around $1600 with installation. Pls do not be happy with the free gift the contractor provided together with the air con as the free gift is also one of the hidden costs in it. Nothing is free, pls bear in mind.

3. Quotation at time of signing does not included detailed specs of all materials used eg. acceptable price range for floor tiles given budget

**** You must always ask your contractor to state everything as clear as possible. The dimension as well as the type of floor tiles given. This is important.

4. Cost of clearing of debris and haulage

**** As per conversation with HDB council, the standard cost for clearing of debris and haulage is always at the cost of $215 inclusive of GST. Do not be surprised when contractor quote you more than $500 and do not get convinced by them when they told you the reason why it is so expensive. Some contractor will tends to tell you that they have rented a lorry to collect debris, this is not true. The lorry is provided by HDB who will do the clearing up. The contractor only needs to pay them $215 and everything will be done properly. Reason: HDB pay outsiders to do the clearing and this is liaise with the contractor and the HDB third party, when only a single receipt will be given. Best is to check with your HDB branch office.

HDB only collect debris fees on behalf of the town council cost won't be more than $250. you can get the print out copy by HDB from your contractor .

The haulage and buying of sand from the appointed contractor ( you can find their contact pasted at the lift lobby for new flats )should be paid by the contractor or the ID firm engaged .

Some contractor or so call " ID " firm will say the haulage fees is home owner should pay ( bout $ 800 or more )Don get CON . All these should be quote inside the contract under the tiling works .

Resale flats Town concil don't charge haulage fees as there is no more haulage contractor appointed by HDB station there .

Contractors will tends to quote more in their hauluge fees, pls take note.

5. Renovation permit costs

*** Renovation permit costs is always provided free when the contractor apply to HDB. There is no costs at all. You may check with HDB itself. Last time HDB used to charge around $200 for permit fees but not now. Policy has changed.

6. Cost of chemical wash

*** Pls take note chemical wash also can be called acid wash is between the cost of $95-$150. This done once or twice depends between contractor and owner. This only done after painting and flooring has completed and before the completion of kitchen cabinet.

7. Remember to check all water holes for any cement or sand. Some contractors may just throw the cement onto the pipe, which in the long run will cause leakage.

8. Cost of gas piping.

The contractor will liaise with City gas contractor for work to be done and this only incurred the cost of $70 per trip. As for the connection of gas piping to the cooker hood will be done separately on another day. The billing of gas piping will be send to your house by the PUB people and not the contractor .

9. Cost of painting.

The cost of painting is between $1100 - $1500. It normally consists of 5 colors Nippon or equivalent. Colours can be selected and adjustable.

10. Installation of bathroom accessories & electrical point.

*** This can be negotiable. You can discuss with the contractor to install these items FOC at your house. When the contractors said they will bring you to the shop to buy bathroom items, do not agree and follow them. This is another way of hidden costs appearing, as contractors may earn commission from there. Take note. The same goes with the lighting points and bulb. However if price difference is not much, its really more convenient to let the ID settle all the delivery plus installation. That’s what I did. You may buy direct and get your contractor to install also can.

For bathroom accessories and lighting, you may go to Jalan Besar or Geylang area to get it. Balestier can be considered but not all. Some places in Balestier tends to quote higher. I personally bought from lightings.com.sg.

11. When hacking walls, make sure contractors include touching up with tiles i.e. on the area that is being left exposed by the wall that is being hacked off.... otherwise some will charge u separately for those tiles.

12. Low price for kitchen cabinets can mean no frills like stainless steel dish racks etc. So you've to ask them to give you EVERY detail.

13. If you are installing ceiling fan, contractor will charge you around $25- $35 but can be negotiated.

14. If you are installing instant heater, contractor will charge you around $60 each. But can be negotiated.

15. Cabinet is treated wood or not.

16. Tell your ID you are getting your own switches and door knobs/lever handles, minus off the cost of those from the quote. If not, they must let you choose, they don't suka suka install some cheap ugly ones for you. For switches, you can buy nice clipsal ones at wholesale prices at Choo Chiang (Veerasamy Road). For me, as I did complete rewiring, the nice switches were given to me foc.

17. Open concept walk in wardrobe, this can be a nightmare for maintenance. I didn't do this, but some of my friends did, it was right outside their toilet, moisture attack, dust attack. I had my close door walk in wardrobe outside my toilet also. Some of my things turn mouldy. One tub of hungry hippo once a week is not economical.

18. If on budget, dont really need kitchen sliding door actually. I cooked often, i didnt have any kitchen sliding door. My living room is not affect at all

19. Above all, its important to select a reliable ID/contractor that has proven track record based on recommendation. That’s what I did when I visited my friend’s newly renovated home and she shared with me her pleasant reno experience. So I went for the same ID and my renovation was a breeze as ID was very responsive and check on site very often, sometimes mms pictures for us to see as updates as well. Avoid those popular ones on the forum as they often get overloaded with work and quality becomes poor. There are also horrible experiences of cheap contractor going mia with money as well. Its impt to be cost conscious but at least get a ID or contractor with HDB license. I did shop around and met many ID and after a while I realize that the pricing is roughly the same.

I also avoid those at expo as they tend to be inexperience and after all I do not want to be paying for their rental at expo exhibition ☺

sharing by another forum member

Just to share my complete house pic and reno process

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v473/zhiz22/Reno/

hi, Zhiz, dont mind share your ID with me, thanks!