The Experience: Our First Home

[summersann 6]

Cement will always crack. If you can't stand cracks, then dont do cement. As for powdery, you can apply the Resin coating...

Xtr no coating with powdery feel: http://www.renotalk.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=48141

Etc with resin coating: http://www.renotalk.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=47307

Get detailed quotes to compare. Could be under quoting for electricals and PE charges etc. End of the day don't sweat small diff in pricing. Reliability and quality is most important IMO.

Hi adidaem! I followed your t-blog when researching for IDs for our EM So nice to see you here!

Thanks for the links! We were okay with the hairline cracks. In fact, we quite liked the idea. The deal breaker is pretty much the damage done to the floor if anything substantial is dropped. One ID we visited had cement screeding done for the studio's floor. She showed us the possible problems, including a dent on the floor. If we ever drop anything and create a dent, I think my dog/cat will scratch the dent even further and create a trench

And totally agreed on the reliability and quality part! Deciding on who to engage is so exhausting though. Must be because we're such noobs

[adidaem 6]

Hi adidaem! I followed your t-blog when researching for IDs for our EM So nice to see you here!

Thanks for the links! We were okay with the hairline cracks. In fact, we quite liked the idea. The deal breaker is pretty much the damage done to the floor if anything substantial is dropped. One ID we visited had cement screeding done for the studio's floor. She showed us the possible problems, including a dent on the floor. If we ever drop anything and create a dent, I think my dog/cat will scratch the dent even further and create a trench

And totally agreed on the reliability and quality part! Deciding on who to engage is so exhausting though. Must be because we're such noobs

You can try going for 60x60cm grey tiles like the one in this project (http://www.homeanddecor.com.sg/project-info/404/Aussie-style,%20five-roomer%20at%20Telok%20Blangah) - just be careful re: tile quality cos some MIC (made in China) tile quality ain't great, so they are warped/not completely flat esp for the larger/longer tiles. I like the Italian tiles from Builders Shop even though I can't always afford their prices. Oh ya, and dark tiles/flooring makes the room/house darker.

I think once owners find a decent ID/contractor, they would tend to stick to the same one for subsequent renovations. Otherwise it's always just as hard to decide regardless of experience I think. I wouldn't bother meeting more than 5 though... I guess early signs are that if the ID/contractor doesn't even revert back for 1st appt/quote and need to be chased, then it's a straight 'no' for me. Or having gone through the reno process, if a contractor says that a ridiculously short reno period is do-able, then I'll be very suspicious as well. I do believe in 'chemistry' if IDs are engaged - you just need someone who thinks along the same wavelength. And... an ID who appears very rich makes me suspicious as well. Like we met one who drove a BMW and was wearing lotsa branded stuff. All I could think of was - no wonder the quotation given is so high! Another thing to consider is those who over-deliver... like 3Ds on 1st appt likely means it's taken from an existing project cos 3D rendering is expensive and time-consuming.

[summersann 6]

You can try going for 60x60cm grey tiles like the one in this project (http://www.homeanddecor.com.sg/project-info/404/Aussie-style,%20five-roomer%20at%20Telok%20Blangah) - just be careful re: tile quality cos some MIC (made in China) tile quality ain't great, so they are warped/not completely flat esp for the larger/longer tiles. I like the Italian tiles from Builders Shop even though I can't always afford their prices. Oh ya, and dark tiles/flooring makes the room/house darker.

I think once owners find a decent ID/contractor, they would tend to stick to the same one for subsequent renovations. Otherwise it's always just as hard to decide regardless of experience I think. I wouldn't bother meeting more than 5 though... I guess early signs are that if the ID/contractor doesn't even revert back for 1st appt/quote and need to be chased, then it's a straight 'no' for me. Or having gone through the reno process, if a contractor says that a ridiculously short reno period is do-able, then I'll be very suspicious as well. I do believe in 'chemistry' if IDs are engaged - you just need someone who thinks along the same wavelength. And... an ID who appears very rich makes me suspicious as well. Like we met one who drove a BMW and was wearing lotsa branded stuff. All I could think of was - no wonder the quotation given is so high! Another thing to consider is those who over-deliver... like 3Ds on 1st appt likely means it's taken from an existing project cos 3D rendering is expensive and time-consuming.

Thanks for the link! I guess that's the kind of tile we're now looking at. The ID we quite liked did suggest using tiles that could sort of blend with cement screed for our kitchen because she didn't recommend using screeding for the kitchen floor. I guess now we just have to ask her to use that tile for the entire first floor instead. Goodbye cement screed dream

And good tips! Most of the IDs we've contacted reverted pretty quickly, except for 1 who took a week or so before we heard anything from them. You're right about the short reno period thing! We're quite wary of that because our key collection is probably going to be late this year or early next year, so whoever promises us that they can get it done before CNY 2013... hmm... Interesting point about IDs who look very rich! Did not think of that at all. Shall start noticing, hahaha! Haven't gotten any 3Ds from the IDs we've met, except for one 3D that the ID we liked did up. It was a small area, just to show us the kitchen, and she only did it for the 2nd meeting when she gave us the quotation. I hope that wasn't her showing us an existing project!

[summersann 6]

A new week! 1 more month for us to meet IDs and decide on who to engage.

We're meeting Artist Room today. Quite excited about that. I think we've been going about this ID search in a slightly wrong way. The range is so diverse that comparing quotations doesn't seem to quite make sense. Some seem to understand what concept we're going for, and are able to further suggest ideas that enhance our style. Others seem to vaguely get it, but simply take down notes or sketch as we talk, not contributing much. The rest... I somehow sense a when we mention our concept and start off with a few specifications. Decided that perhaps we need to arrange meetings with IDs who are kind of in the same league so that comparison of their quotations would be fair. At least then we know they all understand what look we're going for. Or are we wrong? Hmm...

[summersann 6]

Met up with Artist Room today. Have to say, it was a very pleasant meeting. Mark was sincere and very willing to listen. It's just... a good feeling

The discussion was very different from the other IDs we've met. He started off by asking us questions that were more about our lifestyle than our interior style preference. As much as it was unsettling (didn't feel quite right that we didn't talk about what styles we liked!), it was really refreshing. Could sense that they were more about designing a space that suited the home owner's lifestyle, with the styles, textures and colors coming in later after the space planning. This was something that didn't occur to us, not after meeting IDs who talked about interior styles upfront, less about lifestyles (the only other one who briefly asked about our lifestyle was Three-D Conceptwerke).

After he showed us their past projects and asked for our opinion about the styles, we talked in brief about the style we're going for and showed him some pictures I've compiled. He patiently looked through the pictures, so that was nice

Now it's waiting for the quote (which is going to take a while). He was honest and told us that they needed more time to do a detailed sketch, considering the size of our place and the current projects they have on hand (they're a really small firm, with only 4 people). We really liked that their quote would be inclusive of electrical rewiring and plumbing. They believe in including all these in their works, so they have a resident electric&plumbing guy who will work with them to get it included in our quote. I'm impressed

[summersann 6]

Not forgetting, Artist Room does the 3D perspective by hand. Hand-sketching. Now that's impressive. Can't wait to get the quotation from them, and also ask for another quotation (after deciding on quite a few changes) from Three-D Conceptwerke.

Then, the real headache begins

[PinkPluck 0]

Such an interesting balcony shape.... Take your time to choose the right ID... Have fun!

[summersann 6]

Such an interesting balcony shape.... Take your time to choose the right ID... Have fun!

Haha, yeah, the boy was very interested in the balcony when we viewed the place.

Thanks! Hope we pick the right one

[summersann 6]

Forgot to mention that The Carpenter's replied a few days ago. Hmm. Guess we'll meet them since we did contact them.

Contacted another firm after seeing an interesting concept done by them in the latest Home&Decor magazine. DistinctIdentity. Time to arrange for an appointment!

Updated List of IDs
1. Ideal House
2. 3D Innovations
3. Intra Design
5. Three-D Conceptwerke
6. Artist Room
7. The Carpenter's Workshop
8. DistinctIdentity
9. Project File
10. Plush Living

[summersann 6]

Met up with Three-D Conceptwerke again last night to discuss some changes. Waiting for our quotation to be revised. We mentioned to the ID that we've actually exceeded our budget with the current quotation (which makes us super worried about the revised quotation, considering some of the changes!), and she was very nice about it. Told us to let her revise the quotation first, and when we next meet up, we can look at how to bring the number closer to our budget. She also reminded us to fix a time with the current home-owner so that she can come down to take a look at the place and take some measurements to make the quote more accurate.

Regardless of our decision, the ID from Three-D Conceptwerke has impressed us with her service and willingness to accommodate. I can only hope we manage to work out something in the end!

Edited October 5, 2012 by summersann

[potatoes 0]

A copy of our floorplan!

Nice n unique EM

I like ur triangular balcony. What is the size? How is the condition?

[summersann 6]

Nice n unique EM

I like ur triangular balcony. What is the size? How is the condition?

Thanks! The boy particularly liked the balcony too

It's 146sqm. Similar to the usual gen 2 EMs, I think? The condition isn't great. The current owner moved in 10 yrs ago and didn't renovate anything except for 1 bedroom. They mentioned that the previous owner before them stayed for 5 yrs, so we deduced that the last renovation was probably at least 15 yrs ago. We're going to have to do a major overhaul, especially to the entire kitchen. Have to hack down the tiles on the floor and walls in the kitchen, they're very old.

[summersann 6]

Been getting quite a few comments from friends that our renovation is so expensive. We know

But we don't really dare to engage a contractor because of the coordination involved and amount of time needed. We're also afraid that the contractor won't be able to understand what we're trying to achieve. Are we right to think so?

Shall put up what we're doing here and see if anyone can give advice on our quotations so far. Thanks for your help in advance if you do advise!

1. Hack off existing living/dining floor tiles and skirting

2. Hack off existing balcony sliding door and door frame

3. Hack off existing balcony wall/floor tiles

4. Hack off existing kitchen cabinet, sink, stove

5. Hack off existing wall between kitchen and dining area

6. Hack off existing kitchen wall/floor tiles

7. Hack off existing staircase tiles and hand rail

8. Hack off existing storeroom below staircase

9. Hack off existing wall between Bedroom 2 and 3 (to combine both bedrooms into one, creating new master bedroom)

10. Lay decking for balcony

11. Install timber bi-fold door at balcony

12. Lay homogeneous floor tiles for living/dining/kitchen area

13. Change all existing windows/grilles

14. Construct kitchen bottom cabinets

15. Install island unit

16. Install kitchen and island countertops

17. Plaster smooth entire unit

18. Lay parquet on steps

19. Install mild steel hand rail

20. Reconstruct storeroom below staircase

21. Change all bedroom doors

22. Install wardrobes for both rooms

23. Patch up parquet after hacking wall between bedroom 2 and 3

24. Create new wall to change entrance to bathroom (so that the common bathroom can become the new master bedroom bathroom)

25. Change all bathroom doors

26. Overlay tiles for all 3 bathrooms (we're not allowed to hack the existing bathroom tiles, unless we wish to void the HDB warranty, because the entire block just got their bathrooms upgraded)

27. Install glass swing doors in bathrooms

28. Vanity counters in 2 bathrooms upstairs

29. Revarnish parquet on 2nd floor

30. Paint whole unit

That's roughly what needs to be done. And the quotes we've been getting (from IDs) are in the range of 80-90k. Reasonable?

Should we be considering a contractor?

Edited October 6, 2012 by summersann

[potatoes 0]

If u visit Maydream tblog, u will know what I mean. Actually, I don't see much diff between ID n contractor. The main contractor will do all the coordination.

Most impt, u must be comfortable with a 90k budget n u have good terms with ID.

[Ms Polar 1]

Been getting quite a few comments from friends that our renovation is so expensive. We know

But we don't really dare to engage a contractor because of the coordination involved and amount of time needed. We're also afraid that the contractor won't be able to understand what we're trying to achieve. Are we right to think so?

Shall put up what we're doing here and see if anyone can give advice on our quotations so far. Thanks for your help in advance if you do advise!

1. Hack off existing living/dining floor tiles and skirting

2. Hack off existing balcony sliding door and door frame

3. Hack off existing balcony wall/floor tiles

4. Hack off existing kitchen cabinet, sink, stove

5. Hack off existing wall between kitchen and dining area

6. Hack off existing kitchen wall/floor tiles

7. Hack off existing staircase tiles and hand rail

8. Hack off existing storeroom below staircase

9. Hack off existing wall between Bedroom 2 and 3 (to combine both bedrooms into one, creating new master bedroom)

10. Lay decking for balcony

11. Install timber bi-fold door at balcony

12. Lay homogeneous floor tiles for living/dining/kitchen area

13. Change all existing windows/grilles

14. Construct kitchen bottom cabinets

15. Install island unit

16. Install kitchen and island countertops

17. Plaster smooth entire unit

18. Lay parquet on steps

19. Install mild steel hand rail

20. Reconstruct storeroom below staircase

21. Change all bedroom doors

22. Install wardrobes for both rooms

23. Patch up parquet after hacking wall between bedroom 2 and 3

24. Create new wall to change entrance to bathroom (so that the common bathroom can become the new master bedroom bathroom)

25. Change all bathroom doors

26. Overlay tiles for all 3 bathrooms (we're not allowed to hack the existing bathroom tiles, unless we wish to void the HDB warranty, because the entire block just got their bathrooms upgraded)

27. Install glass swing doors in bathrooms

28. Vanity counters in 2 bathrooms upstairs

29. Revarnish parquet on 2nd floor

30. Paint whole unit

That's roughly what needs to be done. And the quotes we've been getting (from IDs) are in the range of 80-90k. Reasonable?

Should we be considering a contractor?

Hi there! I'm also an EM owner here. Considering your work scope, I guessed 80-90k is generally the "market price" from most of the "branded" ID firms. However, are the ceiling, electrical, plumbing works also included in the quotation? Do consider all these details as it can easily attribute another 4-5 figures cost given the extend of the works.

For myself, I engaged a contractor for wet works and a carpenter for wood works. There are also other works which i went direct like the windows and doors. That saved me quite a substantial sum as well. All in all excluding furnishing, I spent less around 60k for an overhaul. The condition of my place previously was quite bad, i could only keep the living room flooring and staircase. In turn, I used the savings i had to splurge on my dry and wet kitchen. The two kitchens amounted to more than a quarter of my reno cost.

The amount of time, money and effort spent on a reno can be really exhausting. However imo, I would still go to a contractor for my next reno. Given that I will be dictating how I want all to be done at the end of the day, so what's the point to pay a premium to get things done your way. The designers may be able to sorta put together a look for you basing on their short understanding of you, but you never know if it's a design from their other customers. There will certainly be some adaption or tweak from the existing designs. The extend of such can be dependable on your budget, hope you get what I mean .

Having said all, please do not misunderstand that I am condemning all IDs here, I am only relating my personal experience from the many reno projects i went through in the past. Perhaps the ones I worked with are not quite the right ones. It's a real learning curve, I would suggest that you do more research online to better prepare yourself.

Hope you have a smooth reno journey and lotsa of luck in identifying the right ID.