Painful Experience I Learnt, & Still Learning Regarding Renovation Works

[notsogoodman 0]

Hi Guys & Gals,

I am in the midst of my reno, tiling supposed to be completed soon..... & there are many hiccups (which reno is hiccups free) along the way... But most of it could have been avoided n thus, I would like to share my experience in hope that you will have better luck than me...

At the start, many of us are worried about the cost, credibility, and reliability of contractors. Choosing a good firm might still be bad because of an errant project manager, which is probably what happened to me as i chose a Reno talk advertiser without seemingly any negative review for nearly 3 years. I was thinking they must be ok unless Renotalk censored; furthermore I was impressed by the young chap that the boss R recommended to me. The young chap, D gave me good suggestions & followed up promptly & I also like the way the company break down the pricing. However on the day of me paying deposit, I bumped into my cousin Al who eagerly took over the project. He told me he's a partner of the firm and would be able to help me more. Looking back, that fateful day was probably the start of my experience.

To cut a long story short, I have summed up my experience as below. If it's still too long, skip the details and scroll right to the last paragraph...

1. DO MEET your contractors at the tiles suppliers (Hafary, Soon Bee Huat etc) and make sure they order the tiles in your presence. What happened to me was that Al told me we only need to meet at site and he can call the companies to order the tiles so can save me one trip. Apparently, Al sat on my tiling list & samples for 2 weeks & lost the list and samples; n had the cheek to blame me for (in sequential order) 1. not giving him the list 2. not giving him the floor plan 3. not reserving the tiles that I want 4. not having a backup plan (well my backup has to be activated because Al sat on my tiles for 2 weeks n only decided to order the tiles 2 days before tiling due to start)

2. DO WRITE down you project requirement in black & white & get your contractor to endorse. Apparently, Al did not record anything that I told him and kept forgetting about things that we have gone through and agreed on. Well, I can't really be that harsh on my elder cousin right? Oh well, it was difficult being the younger one...

3. DO MAKE SURE your contractor spell out their project management style in black & white. Things like how often they visit site, and how often you are supposed to go through the items with them. It turned out Al who kept saying that he will definitely look after his relatives only visited site about ONCE a week, maybe twice at most

4. DO KEEP minutes of your briefings and send them back to your contractor, & his boss if available

5. DO KEEP the boss in the loop as often as possible; especially if the boss was your first contact point

6. DO BUY your own locks as some contractors scrimp and buy those cheapo locks that are spoilt after one use. In the end, the premise was not locked for 10 days and the tiler lost his stuff, n a brand new chute was missing too. i do not even know what I have lost yet

7. DO GET your contractors to wrap items that you are keeping. My doors are damaged during the hacking stage, and the cut happened at knee, waist, & eye level. Seems like someone banged into the door while clearing debris

8. DO NOT believe whatever your contractors tell you, even if they show you photos or if they are your relatives (I didn't choose my cousin by the way, he jumped into this project). Sometimes it's even easier to lie to relatives.

9. DO NOT assume your contractors know what to brief his subcons.... Apparently the tiler CUT OFF my optic fibre cable n terminal box. The house is due for painting in about 7-8 days time and even if my contractor is willing to pay for the rewiring; OPENNET might not have the schedule to fit me in. Do I blame the tiler for cutting the optic fibre or the project manager for not briefing the tiler?

10. DO NOT THINK that your contractors will remember what he has told you. Some people just bochap, gave me a date for bathroom delivery of which I promptly followed; only to discover that the tiler was doing cementing.... I am glad they didn't charge me for redelivery. Now Al blames his tilers for not following his schedule but it's hard not to believe that he probably didn't communicate to the tilers.

11. DO NOT accept good lobangs from your contractors, especially your relatives. Unless your relative is really professional, accountability and money matters can get pretty messy....

12. DO NOT believe that your contractors are experienced to preamp you, you rather believe they have the power to surprise you. For example, Al called me & told me I have TO SPEND to amend my gate and doors as they are too low to clear the tiles. I stated clearly to him that I am keeping my doors and gate, but now the tiles have gone too high. Al once again simply recommended me good lobang to get them fixes. Shouldn't a project manager (especially one who supposingly has more 10 years of experience) be errr experienced enough to make sure that this is not supposed to happen. & it's not about tiles being too thick for I lost 2 cm in the living room and about 7 cm in the kitchen; so it's the cement

To sum up my experiences even further so far, here it goes...

1 - My optic fibre cable and terminal box got cut off. Finding a solution will be at the mercy of OpenNet (and of course contractor should pay)

2 - I prob have to change my gate and doors (but contractor should pay) as they were not taken into account by the tilers (when I have specifically told my project manager that I am not changing them)... & I hacked the whole house. Furthermore, the doors are damaged.

3 - My contractor didn't order the tiles when he was supposed to, sat on it for 2 weeks and in the end the tiles I want went out of stock...

4 - My contractor still can't remember my tiling sequence despite me going through with him twice and pasting it all at the site

5 - So much extra time, effort n cost incurred because of the nonchalant attitude of my contractors; problems which could easily be & should be averted.

As I write this, I am probably resigned to the fate that my reno will be delayed (n hence I have to reschedule electrician, kitchen folks, carpenters, etc)... What about the extra cost for the gate, doors, re-installing OpenNet? No way was it my fault n I should not be made to pay... But at the end of the day, we are already so deep into this project; what else can I do?

Edited July 1, 2012 by notsogoodman

[limjames 0]

First of all, I would like to thank you for sharing your experience. I would definitely look out for some of the points raised.

I am currently in the process of selecting a contractor and would like to add-on to the points you raised and also hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions so that we can all learn.

1. DO MEET your contractors at the tiles suppliers.

So far, most of the contractors I approached said they will bring us to the supplier showroom to select our preferred designs for wall and floor tiles.

6. DO BUY your own locks as some contractors scrimp and buy those cheapo locks that are spoilt after one use. In the end, the premise was not locked for 10 days and the tiler lost his stuff, n a brand new chute was missing too. i do not even know what I have lost yet

If the materials were stolen from your unit, isn't it the contractor's responsibility to replace them since they are the ones running the show and not us. How can we be responsible if they misplaced their goods?

Damaged doors, Open net cable cut-off, cocked-up titling works

IMO, it is definitely the contractor's fault for 1) damaging your property and 2) failure to take the correct tiling measurements resulting in the need to hack your front door. Have you considered withholding installment payment and nego for compensation?

9.Do I blame the tiler for cutting the optic fibre or the project manager for not briefing the tiler?

IMO, you should blame the contractor because you hired them and not the tilers. The contractor hired the tilers and thus should be responsible for their work quality.

I have to reschedule electrician, kitchen folks, carpenters, etc)... What about the extra cost for the gate, doors, re-installing OpenNet? No way was it my fault n I should not be made to pay... But at the end of the day, we are already so deep into this project; what else can I do?

I thought its the contractor's job to schedule for the subcon and materials delivery and not us? the contractor I am communicating with said they will take-care of the whole process and all we have to do is to select the design we want. is that true?

[notsogoodman 0]

First of all, I would like to thank you for sharing your experience. I would definitely look out for some of the points raised.

I am currently in the process of selecting a contractor and would like to add-on to the points you raised and also hope you don't mind if I ask a few questions so that we can all learn.

1. DO MEET your contractors at the tiles suppliers.

So far, most of the contractors I approached said they will bring us to the supplier showroom to select our preferred designs for wall and floor tiles.

Yes, meeting at the showroom to select tiles was supposed to be the way till AL took over from D. He told me it's easier to go through the tiling on site, n after going through it; he told me he will buy the tiles through phone order using the tiles code..... That was at the start of the project n I naively believed him...

6. DO BUY your own locks as some contractors scrimp and buy those cheapo locks that are spoilt after one use. In the end, the premise was not locked for 10 days and the tiler lost his stuff, n a brand new chute was missing too. i do not even know what I have lost yet

If the materials were stolen from your unit, isn't it the contractor's responsibility to replace them since they are the ones running the show and not us. How can we be responsible if they misplaced their goods?

Yes it's their prob, basically they were arguing over it.... & with regards to the chute, of course the contractor is responsible; AL said he will settle it except he still doesn't want to get a replacement in. The place stinks from time to time......

Damaged doors, Open net cable cut-off, cocked-up titling works

IMO, it is definitely the contractor's fault for 1) damaging your property and 2) failure to take the correct tiling measurements resulting in the need to hack your front door. Have you considered withholding installment payment and nego for compensation?

I am going to ring up Direct Tiler to file an official complaint if Al doesn't resolve it for me. He has the cheek to tell me I need to amend my gate n refer a cheap fix to me.... Rem he is my cousin so I didn't want to strain family relationship, but it's really getting out of hand...

9.Do I blame the tiler for cutting the optic fibre or the project manager for not briefing the tiler?

IMO, you should blame the contractor because you hired them and not the tilers. The contractor hired the tilers and thus should be responsible for their work quality.

Yes, Al said he will take responsibility... But with my painting about 8 days away, I am facing the prospect of having new PVC trunking lay over my house if OpenNet can't do an installation before painting starts...

I have to reschedule electrician, kitchen folks, carpenters, etc)... What about the extra cost for the gate, doors, re-installing OpenNet? No way was it my fault n I should not be made to pay... But at the end of the day, we are already so deep into this project; what else can I do?

I thought its the contractor's job to schedule for the subcon and materials delivery and not us? the contractor I am communicating with said they will take-care of the whole process and all we have to do is to select the design we want. is that true?

Well, that depends on what's your agreement with your contractor... For bathroom stuff, my main con is installing for me but I am the one who choose what I want (the delivery for that has already cock-up once)... In my case, my main con is not doing my kitchen & wardrobe as I am settling that part myself

[san20sg 1]

I can fully understand your pain. Lucky my main contractor is a responsible man & does rectify the defects caused by his subcontractors. But my old parents didn't realise how difficult it is to find good contractors & keep complaining about how bad my main contractor is.

Renovation is really a pain. The biggest worry is that the contractor will just run away with your money.

[taichipanda 3]

Sorry to hear about your experience. Lucky my friend whose is a architectural designer together with his groups of workers, completely tear down the interior and rebuild it in a month with kitchen counter top arriving a week later. Everything nice and good, no hiccup at all.

[casa 0]

So sorry to hear about your reno turn sour

Hope u r able settle all the issue quick coz dragging will incur more $$$

[Tiler Seng 57]

Hey, so sorry till i get to know this today, you will have my assurance that everything will be on the track again, we will meet to ensure all your issue being resolved.

Ronald

[notsogoodman 0]

Well, Tuesday (3rd July) was a day of 2 half.... let's start with the 1st half

I went in at 11am to meet contractor Al and Plumber as scheduled to go thru piping n sanitary requirement (& no surprises that Al messaged at 11am to say he will be late n later called & asked me to go thru with plumber.

As I went through with plumber on my water point, heater point, sink placement etc etc, I got a shock when the plumber told he can't start work today, he has to come back another day.... I have scheduled the full day to go thru the piping, bathroom fitting etc n i was told the plumber has been worked for the whole day as well.......

Well, the plumber told me he can't proceed because

1. the tiling for the kitchen wall has not been completed so he can't pull the pipe over the raw wall

2. Cementing & tiling work was still done at Master Bedroom so he can't access to work on MBR bathroom

Then the tiler told me

1. he can't complete the tiling for the kitchen wall because the windows have not been changed yet......

So tiler, plumber n me were left pondering why in the world project manager Al scheduled the day for plumbing work???

Well, it shouldn't be a surprise to me by now...

oh, did i mention that my NEWLY LAID TILES were not protected.... so after the living room tiles were done, the tilers were walking across it carrying tiles, cement n the whole floor was so dirty.... To make matters worse, tools, tiles & other stuff were placed directly on my newly done living room tiles.... Tell me this is not normal practice...

Edited July 3, 2012 by notsogoodman

[notsogoodman 0]

now for 2nd half of Tuesday (3rd July)

The boss R has scheduled a meeting between Al, D, himself n me at site....

Am I glad R & D decided to step in..... The only thing I am not sure is, should I be glad that R & D managed to get things sort out so swiftly or should I be sad that Al can't even co-ordinate n resolve basic issues.... *sigh*

See below for the issues n R's resolution

1. Cutting of my OpenNet's Optic Fibre Cable & Terminal Point - R said he will compensate me for the new installation

2. The possibility that my OpenNet's repair won't be done in time - R suggested to use a small trunking n lay it ready for OpenNet, n to paint it first n touch up after OpenNet complete the installation

3. Last minute need to alter my gate & doors - R indicated that it happens often for old HDBs but agreed that it should have been communicated to me. Thus, they will settle the door amendment n R also gave a very good solution to improvise the tiling at the gate so there won't be further delays n cost (for them as well)

4. Project manager not very professional attitude n confusing scheduling - R placed my original project manager D back on the project we are not supposed to confirm everything through email

5. Damaged doors - We forgot to discuss this but I believe R will make good for me (right???)

As i am writing now, i am awaiting my old yet new Project Manager D's email on the new schedule.....

At least things are looking promising n back on track... We will find out very soon if things really turn out that way

On a personal note, I feel bad that things have to come to this stage... But I was getting nowhere with a project manager with a nonchalant attitude... Still, i hope he will be given a chance to improve, & that he will want to...

[xKimi 0]

Sorry to hear about your experience and glad there is resolution for your various problems now. My renovation was done by a relative as well and I do believe having relatives do renovations present a different set of problems and situations.

My husband and I had no choice but to go along with it as we were constantly pestered by our relative to "support support lah!". Initial part was still ok ,until the carpentry started. We starting seeing all sorts of issues happen like designs gone wrong, very very poor finishing and even scratches and chip offs that were not repaired or at least covered. I called my main con about all these and his reply was:" Technical difficulties I cannot help you, because I was not there when you were discussing with the carpenter so I don't know what you said to him." Classic eh? :bow: Not to mention its even easier for relatives to charge you more.

I hope your renovation journey will be smooth from now on and have a beautiful home in the end.

[jbooncho 0]

Dear all, be aware of this contractor called Marvin Wong and Shirley Lee from Millennium Lifestyle Pte Ltd. Pay them 80% and they stopped work at around 15%. Pressing us to pay further and was told will not start work until we pay . Currently seeking legal action against them. Pointless to seek Case and police. Police reports were made. They having a booth on this coming renovation fair at Expo, Classic Living 2012 (21/07/12-29/07/12). Please do not engage them.

Anyone happened that engage this guy, please let me know. Appreciated that.

Marvin Wong/ Shirley Lee

Millennium Lifestyle Pte Ltd

[jumbopanther 2]

Sorry to hear abt your painful experience, for me, my principle is never get relatives to do main contracting work.

In this sense, my current contractor is quite good, work for more than 2 months already still have not ask me for any payment at all. Even my Neighbour complimented their work during this major renovation period for keeping the surrounding area clean

[funnymatthew 1]

hi notsogoodman,

my heart goes out to you...

i had the same problem while renovating my home. during the 6 months which dragged to 9 months, i lost almost 8 kg.

the problem was that i engaged my customer's employee, who worked part time as an ID.

did not coordinate any issues on site nor briefed the sub-con properly. not drawings submitted before proceeding with work or material choosing.

the list goes on.....

I probably worked a lot harder than him in talking to the sub-contractors and suppliers. the good thing was that i work in the construction industry so i knew some of the stuff. right now, i am still solving some of the defective works left behind by the poor coordination....

any way we have moved on and have stayed for more than 2 yrs.

my advice is, if you have the time and energy, try to coordinate the reno yourself as you can customize everything. a lazy ID will never go through the extra mile to make your nest perfect. otherwise, pay for a highly recommended ID to solve the prob. in case you are interested yo read about our reno, see here.

[sho90 0]

hi ,can u pm me the id firm that u were talking abt?i am afraid i will end up going to the same id as yours.

[Grinner 0]

hi notsogoodman,

PM you with a question.

Please kindly reply when free.

Thanks!