Downlights Led Vs Plc: Very Confuse

[jonatan1312 0]

Hi all,

I am going to purchase 15 downlights for my living room + 3 downlight for master bedroom, but I am being really confuse whether should I buy LED or PLC.

I tried to figure out the pros and cons between LED downlight vs PLC downlight based on what I know:

LED Downlight:

1. Cost $90/set (made in China)

2. Power: 12 watt/set (equal to 36 watt of PLC downlight)

3. Not easy to maintain if driver is damage: driver cost $20; transportation cost: $40

4. Total Initial cost: 18 x $90 = $1620

PLC Downlight:

1. Cost $34/set (made in China)

2. Power: 36 watt/set

3. Easy maintain: can replace the bulb by myself without calling electrician/handyman. Unless if the ballast is damage.

4. Total initial cost: 18 x $34 = $612

My questions:

1. Based on your experience, after how many years the LED driver will need to be replaced (for normal usage about 8-12 hours/day and the item is made in China)

2. Anybody know/can share how much do you save the electricity bill after you use/switch to LED downlight?

3. If we lookg at the PLC power is 3 times of LED. Does it mean my electricity bill will be 3 times bigger than the bill if I use LED downlight?

4. Do you find the quote prices are reasonable?

5. Will you recommend me to use LED or PLC downlight?

Thanks in advance for your kind advise/sharing.

Regards,

Jonatan

Edited May 28, 2012 by jonatan1312

[Rudra 0]

My questions:

1. Based on your experience, after how many years the LED driver will need to be replaced (for normal usage about 8-12 hours/day and the item is made in China)

Depends on the driver quality you are buying. Good ones, you may not need to change over 5 years, bad ones less than a year.

2. Anybody know/can share how much do you save the electricity bill after you use/switch to LED downlight?

You certainly save alot. But remember, just cos you go for LED do not expect power saving. LEDs are suppose to be measured is Lux (Lumens) but i am sure usually in Singapore when you ask around they will ask you to buy higher wattage LEDs so that they are bright. But sadly, as such you are not save much or any power. Correctly calculated LED lights will give you less weight on your bill. My whole house is LED, Downlight, Circular Lights, Tube lights G9 light, E27 light. My latest bill $37.85 (Full month usage)

3. If we lookg at the PLC power is 3 times of LED. Does it mean my electricity bill will be 3 times bigger than the bill if I use LED downlight?

If you use PLC it will be more than 3 times as for starting, it uses more power to strike. So by going for LED, you can reduce by more than 3 times.

4. Do you find the quote prices are reasonable?

LED $90?? Not really, if you need help feel free to contact me : rudra@auto101.sg

5. Will you recommend me to use LED or PLC downlight?

LED Certainly!

Thanks in advance for your kind advise/sharing.

Regards,

Jonatan

[kalimantan 6]

My opinions are from consumer perspective.

1. Market always said China products no good, etc - but ask any businesses - the only way to reduce cost is made in china. Even ipads, ipods, gadgets are made in china (but design brain work is by americans), everyone buys right ?

2. I've switch to LED lights. Initial setup cost is high but look from another angle:

a) singapore is a price taker for electricity (we import) therefore price per kilowatts we cannot control. But between LED or PLC we can control - therefore go for LED as it has savings.

b) LED can be made brighter by getting good technologies ones on the same WATT.

c) LED seldom breaks down. We all lead a hectic life and to spend time to change light bulbs - forget it for me ! Who is going to climb ladder at ceilings nowadays to fix this or that ? When you grow old, you have time or capability for this ?

3. Drivers - how often does drivers break down ? Do not worry too much on this. It is not that ALL drivers will break down at the same time !

Edited July 7, 2012 by kalimantan

[heynsl 1]

Hi all,

I am going to purchase 15 downlights for my living room + 3 downlight for master bedroom, but I am being really confuse whether should I buy LED or PLC.

I tried to figure out the pros and cons between LED downlight vs PLC downlight based on what I know:

LED Downlight:

1. Cost $90/set (made in China)

2. Power: 12 watt/set (equal to 36 watt of PLC downlight)

3. Not easy to maintain if driver is damage: driver cost $20; transportation cost: $40

4. Total Initial cost: 18 x $90 = $1620

PLC Downlight:

1. Cost $34/set (made in China)

2. Power: 36 watt/set

3. Easy maintain: can replace the bulb by myself without calling electrician/handyman. Unless if the ballast is damage.

4. Total initial cost: 18 x $34 = $612

My questions:

1. Based on your experience, after how many years the LED driver will need to be replaced (for normal usage about 8-12 hours/day and the item is made in China)

2. Anybody know/can share how much do you save the electricity bill after you use/switch to LED downlight?

3. If we lookg at the PLC power is 3 times of LED. Does it mean my electricity bill will be 3 times bigger than the bill if I use LED downlight?

4. Do you find the quote prices are reasonable?

5. Will you recommend me to use LED or PLC downlight?

Thanks in advance for your kind advise/sharing.

Regards,

Jonatan

I am in the electrical contractor industry and here are my humble opinion to your queries;

1. For info, LED light consists of 2 main components. ie. the LED modules & the driver. Usually the LED modules can last very long but the driver cannot. Under normal usage, a typical LED light can last about 35,000 hours (est. about 3.9 years for 24hrs daily usage) as compared to compact flourscent light which can last about 3500 hours. Nevertheless, its lifespan also depends on the quality of the LED light you bought. (China produces 90% of the LED lights in the world but there are different quality levels in LED)

2. If the electricity tariff keeps going up, by changing to LED you may have cost saving in the long term but you need to fork out for higher initial cost as investment.

3. Electricity bill consists of many factors but consumption of lightings only contributed to a insignificant portion of it. You should focus on the major power hungry items such as computers, tv, oven, air-con, heater etc.

4. Try to look around, you can get cheaper price out there.

5. It is very subjective whether to use LED a not because it will depend on what you desire. (if u decided to get LED downlights, try to get those with frosted diffuser type to prevent glaring issues.

regards.

[UncleJ 0]

I work as an R&D engineer in a electronic design company which also deals with LED lightnings distribution. From my assessment and calculations, it is not logical to install LED unless:

1) Costly method of replacement, for example high ceilings/industrial area where the labor cost to replace and lost of productivity may actually cost more than the LED fixture itself.

2) Reliability, system critical areas where illumination are tantamount.

I do not design LED drivers, but usually drivers do not breakdown unless its in abusive environment. Beware of some china brands, they usually "over-drive" their led so actually it does not save electricity. Try to go for brands that are designed somewhere else but manufacture in china, these are only slightly more expensive.

Now here comes the numbers:

Typically a return of investment time of 8years ( estimation of 1% increase of the current tariff/year) for home usage. Some very expensive brands may never pay themselves off.

My verdict?

Not worth at all! I will never recommend anyone to install any LED fixtures for home usage for logical reasons. But hey, humans are irrational so if you really want to install any LED fixture go find one that has the most intricate design. See liao also song lol.

[Batman 0]

I totally agree w UncleJ. The price difference simply do not justify the ROI (return on investments).

At 14w difference per set, 8hrs operation per day, we r only talking abt 0.1120 kWh. Multiply by current $0.2808 per kWh tariffs, its only $0.03145/day or $11.4791/year. Break even in 4.8years.

No rocket science if u ask me

PS: I m not just ur typical consumer. Good luck to those who choose any of the above.

[watchthewaves 0]

My comments here are from a consumer perspective, who has done some research; not someone in the industry. For those who are looking for 100% guaranteed savings type of answer, I'd suggest that you stick to current PLC energy savers. I feel that we are seeing LED design and manufacturing just starting to make economic sense, so in maybe one to three years time, you'll see even better lumen per watt, have more choices and can also better tell the good quality ones from the inferior ones.

But if you want to consider getting now, do take these factors into consideration:

- LIGHT OUTPUT. Unless you are going to simply trust a salesman when you tells you that LED 12W equals to PLC 36W, ask for the lumen output too. As others have pointed out before, depending on the design, 1W of LED can output different lumen. For more critical areas, you may even want to be more detailed - look at lumen, beam angle, take into account how high the ceiling and what the light is going to be like at desk level, even get a lighting simulation done. Current LED technology is good enough to be able to provide good lighting for use in all the different areas of the house. You just need to choose properly.

- QUALITY. No one really knows much about quality now because its too early to tell. So when you pay less, it could be "pay peanuts, get monkeys" or you could've gotten a quality product at a bargain. Like someone else mentioned, if you can, consider paying a bit more to get lights that are designed by established names. For now, just have to trust that when they manufacture in China, they will QC properly. Might also want to see what warranty you can get. It can be up to 3 years, depending on manufacturer.

- PLC - BALLAST CONSUMES ELCTRICITY. But its not all so negative for LED. When comparing wattage, for PLC, don't forget to take the ballast into consideration. Many don't use the electronic one, which is more expensive. If you use the normal magnetic ballast, it can add up to maybe 8W-10W per ballast. So a PLC 18W could actually be consuming closer to 25W. If you're doing your savings calculation, you'll need to take this into account.

- PLC - CANNOT TAKE FREQUENT ON OFF. For areas where you switch on and then shortly switch off again, not a good idea to use PLC. They die much faster than their rated life. Should be on for, say, about 20 mins. Also, they take a while to brighten up, but this usually isn't a major issue for most people.

- PLC - MERCURY. Present in small amounts, both in PLC and standard flourescent tubes. Singapore, unlike some other countries, does not have a proper way of disposing of these lamps. They should not be thrown away with the usual garbage, but be disposed of so that the mercury does not get into the environment and poison it. If you care about the earth, think about this.

End of the day, I believe that, buying with care, you can reap a savings after several years. You'll have a higher upfront cost, but long term, not only you benefit, but the earth benefits too.

All the best with your decision.

Edited July 29, 2012 by watchthewaves

[bleucheeze 1]

What about those E27 type of downlight that uses energy saving bulb, how do these compare to LED downlight?

[Kevinun 0]

For personal point of view, now LED technology is more mature than before and more slim so that do not have to build a very thick false ceiling as you know for normal HDB house, ceiling just 2.6m~2.8m high.

Compare with LED and PLC, everyone say that LED driver is very easy to spoit and no one talk about the disadvantage of PLC.

PLC downlight is thicker than LED downlight and life span is almost 10 times shorter than LED downlight.

So every time that you repair PLC, you need time and money to sourcing PLC and ballast.

You have to be aware of these kind of invisible cost.

PLC downlight cost 2 times electricity than LED with the same brightness.

If you can afford the initial cost, LED downlight is much better than PLC downlight.

Best Regard

[gtrgtti 0]

i recently ordered my 12w downlights from this local led supplier, 25 per set, and i managed to get an additional 10% more discount because i bought 20 units.

[lucky huat huat 0]

i recently ordered my 12w downlights from this local led supplier, 25 per set, and i managed to get an additional 10% more discount because i bought 20 units.

Hi is ur downlight LED type?? what brand is that and from who?

[Pelect 3]

What about those E27 type of downlight that uses energy saving bulb, how do these compare to LED downlight?

I like the E27 type best. No external ballast and I can change to a different wattage in case it's too bright.

I am in the process of replacing all my PLC to E27 using energy saving bulb. LED does not justify the cost as mentioned by earlier postings.

[Todd 0]

What does PLC stand for? Is this only a term used in Singapore? I've tried googling it and get no answers.

[Pelect 3]

Not sure exactly what it stands for.

One difference is PLC is the 'push in' whereas E27/E14 is the screw in type.

[superkid 0]

.

Edited February 26, 2014 by superkid