Wrong Time To Invest In Shoe-Box Apartment?

[yoongf 11]

My opinion is that foreign involvment is good for Sg, and we should fear their presence.

Sg was built by foreingers, using foreign money. This can never change without massive restructuring of local culture.

We need to be clear about the distinction between foreign buyers and foreign speculators.

A PR couple working in Sg buying instead of renting is a genuine buyer. We should not treat them as foreign speculator.

We always talk about "what if the foreigner decides to abandon ship and sell off".

Lets be real. Is Sg economy so weak or concentrated that there will not be a local who can absorb the supply if foreigner leaves?

The foreign interest is well diversified, and as long as we make sure sg is attactive, there will always be a demand.

Property is no longer just a place for residential occupation.

Most ppl buy it to live in, many ppl use it as an investment option, some ppl use it as a hedge against long term inflation (succession planning).

Others collect it as throphy (Sentosa Cove/ high end Orchard Road).

And when I say ppl, I dun mean just locals, but global investors (Indonesians/China) as well.

As long as we make sg a wonderful place to be, where ppl feel safe to send their daughters to sch here, this demand for sg property is real.

With such genuine demand, instead of limiting foreign involvement, we shd build more and meet the demand.

Furthermore, the property market has many segments such as BTO, Resale, Pte, Landed.

Foreign speculation in 1 segment does not mean it affects all segment.

Does speculation in private condo ramp up BTO prices or resale?

The jury is out on that.

Then there is this issue of sustainable and stable economy.

That is just one school of thought. Other major economies like HK are more gung ho.

Are they worse off? My opinion.. there are more than 1 way to get to a better Quality of Life.

CPF rate is pegged at 2.5% and up to 5%, slow and stable.

I'm sure if anyone who were to rely on this stable rate for retirement planning will be in for a shock later on.

Simply put.. we need to be a lot more agressive to maintain this quality of life, and clearly.. current policies are not addressing this issue.

Clearly.. there is a massive housing shortage now, and this has to be ramped up, rather than say.. slow and stable growth.

Wow i'm quite intrigued by this statement. Yes market is naturally efficient but it does fail too.

Probably what you say might be correct if the Singapore property were influenced by just locals in a micro scale.

However due to the complexity of Singapore's small and highly open economy, foreign inputs, speculations may make the situation much more complicated than what you feel.

This is why the government, a deciding factor should contribute for a more stable economy.

[angusbeef 0]

With such genuine demand, instead of limiting foreign involvement, we shd build more and meet the demand.

Furthermore, the property market has many segments such as BTO, Resale, Pte, Landed.

Foreign speculation in 1 segment does not mean it affects all segment.

Does speculation in private condo ramp up BTO prices or resale?

The jury is out on that.

...

Simply put.. we need to be a lot more agressive to maintain this quality of life, and clearly.. current policies are not addressing this issue.

Clearly.. there is a massive housing shortage now, and this has to be ramped up, rather than say.. slow and stable growth.

yes, however i think more regulation of foreign buyers and speculators needed while keeping up with increased supply. not to keep them out, as they should have a place to stay but to keep them out of hdb and new projects. if necc, also keep them out of 99lh in future if necc. the reason is that hdb is for citizens, and citizens should have first dip at new flats. with foreigners out of the picture in some segments of market, demand and therefore price would soften, all things equal, making it less unaffordable to citizens.

[yoongf 11]

BTO is already a citizen-only purchase.

The prices of flats in Sg shd be subject to free market forces, as there are too many neighbouring issues to deal with if we say.. mature estate flats are priced lower than next door older flats. The real issue is actually the amount of subsidy.

Long ago, when BTO was ard 200K, the first timer grant was 40K. Now BTO is hitting 300K.. the grant is still 40K.

The grant has not kept up with inflation. In my opinion, grant is the best way to directly help citizens.

..... the reason is that hdb is for citizens, and citizens should have first dip at new flats. with foreigners out of the picture in some segments of market, demand and therefore price would soften, all things equal, making it less unaffordable to citizens.

[bepgof 20]

yes, however i think more regulation of foreign buyers and speculators needed while keeping up with increased supply. not to keep them out, as they should have a place to stay but to keep them out of hdb and new projects. if necc, also keep them out of 99lh in future if necc. the reason is that hdb is for citizens, and citizens should have first dip at new flats. with foreigners out of the picture in some segments of market, demand and therefore price would soften, all things equal, making it less unaffordable to citizens.

At times I wonder why citizens give up hdb, while prefer to "fight" with foreigners in pte pty. Refer to citizens staying in pte pty >5 yrs without holding any hdb unit( pte-pty-only-portfolio). Anyone can enlighten me?

[propertysoul 0]

So far.. I have seen many negative comments about shoebox and mostly come from ppl who have no experience with shoebox.

For almost two years I stayed in a shoebox unit with less than 400 sq ft. I can say it's a totally different dwelling from a developer's shoebox showflat.

Just want to share my life in a shoebox unit in a post at http://propertysoul.com/2010/12/22/so-you-want-a-shoebox-unit/

I've some experience investing in private properties here but sorry I'm not optimistic about investing in shoebox units in Singapore, especially when there's a downturn in the economy. Shared my views in two posts below.

http://propertysoul.com/2010/12/22/so-you-want-a-shoebox-unit-part-ii/

http://propertysoul.com/2010/12/24/so-you-want-a-shoebox-unit-part-iii/

[propertysoul 0]

At times I wonder why citizens give up hdb, while prefer to "fight" with foreigners in pte pty. Refer to citizens staying in pte pty >5 yrs without holding any hdb unit( pte-pty-only-portfolio). Anyone can enlighten me?

To me, HDBs and private properties are two different things that cannot be compared apple-to-apple.

Strictly speaking, HDBs belong to the government. They are for your stay only.

Private properties are yours. They can be your residence or your investment.

Just want to share with you more at http://propertysoul.com/2011/07/27/hdb-or-private-for-1st-time-buyers/

[matrix0405 0]

2012 should be the year of the Mickey Mouse. Hence forth, new units TOP and come into the market every month. Resales price and rental yield will be revealed. If the resale prices and rent is ok,be prepared to see more MM from developers. Anybody knows how is MM doing in the market? Are they worst off compared to 2BR units?

[bepgof 20]

2012 should be the year of the Mickey Mouse. Hence forth, new units TOP and come into the market every month. Resales price and rental yield will be revealed. If the resale prices and rent is ok,be prepared to see more MM from developers. Anybody knows how is MM doing in the market? Are they worst off compared to 2BR units?

MM/Sb need/demand subjects much to state's geographical and social cultural factors.

- Does our country "big" enough which drive empoyees/students to rent/buy one near workplace/study institution for convienance? A "room" or a mm/sb is more economical?

- Does our society promotes "singlehood" living? This is the issue that I have been talking abt, and gov is concern enough which will bring to some "social problems". With the increase rate of GenY (young working professional)being into employment (earning capacity), our "open" econ models, values...I dare to bet, there is increasing tendency of "staying alone, with partners".

2BR units for small family, or the rich single who like space for party. Work smart, play hard, party hard - genY's concept.

[angusbeef 0]

Long ago, when BTO was ard 200K, the first timer grant was 40K. Now BTO is hitting 300K.. the grant is still 40K.

The grant has not kept up with inflation. In my opinion, grant is the best way to directly help citizens.

good point. increasing grants and more type of subsidies might be the best way to go to tip it in favor of citizens as well.

[angusbeef 0]

For almost two years I stayed in a shoebox unit with less than 400 sq ft. I can say it's a totally different dwelling from a developer's shoebox showflat.

Just want to share my life in a shoebox unit in a post at http://propertysoul.com/2010/12/22/so-you-want-a-shoebox-unit/

I've some experience investing in private properties here but sorry I'm not optimistic about investing in shoebox units in Singapore, especially when there's a downturn in the economy. Shared my views in two posts below.

http://propertysoul.com/2010/12/22/so-you-want-a-shoebox-unit-part-ii/

http://propertysoul.com/2010/12/24/so-you-want-a-shoebox-unit-part-iii/

however, shoebox would work only if singapore goes mega metropolitan like new york, london or major cities where people have no choice and stay in shoebox as property is too expensive. has singapore reached that stage yet, i not sure. personally, shoebox is not for me either. great for singles, but that is about it.

[kalimantan 6]

May i know the profile of people who bought SOHO (shoe box apartment) ?

1. are they single ? Why do they buy it ? What is their age like ?

2. If not single (married) - why do they buy it ? What is their age like ?

[yoongf 11]

1. First time property investors.. father-children, aunties and sisters, guy buddies.

2. Spinsters ( 30s career type)

3. Single guys.. (drive flashy cars)

4. Seasoned property investors. (multi unit buyers)

5. Businessmen buy for gf.

I did not get the impression that there is substantial interest from families with kids for owner occupation.

Typical occupiers, are substantially renters(foreign singles), local singles, and spinsters.

Impression gotten.. these are middle or above middle income types with nice cars.

[matrix0405 0]

Shoeboxes are still hot, the number of transaction is still going strong. But MND say may step to limit the no of SB in developments.

[bepgof 20]

Yoong is right it is the right thing for the right person. If you have money to buy bigger place then maybe Shoebox is not for you but if first time buyer, or young couple/single then it is good way to get into property ownership.

All investments have to be careful anything can go down as well as up.

I live in small apartment and you can be happy if you are smart about how you furnish, use multi purpose furniture, or folding/transforming things to make the space more efficient. Space saving hidden wall beds are good for this, also there are lots of articles out there about how to be clever with your space

Bro Yoong posts only quality comments. He was the first one answered my first query in this forum sometime back in 2009.

[bepgof 20]

1. First time property investors.. father-children, aunties and sisters, guy buddies.

2. Spinsters ( 30s career type)

3. Single guys.. (drive flashy cars)

4. Seasoned property investors. (multi unit buyers)

5. Businessmen buy for gf.

If hold true, do these correlate to preliminary conclusion of the need of gov regulation/intervention preventing s'pore image/reputation being developing into a "loose" moral country?

And, can gov "intervene" the impacts that globalisation, technology, social norms/values bring upon the population, especially the 30s.? What gov "can do" & "cannot do"? Very chimp?