I Am A Renovation Newbie – Need Guidance From The Experts!

[kingpin76 0]

I have recently purchased a 15 year old inter terrace and in the process of evaluating ID quotations for a renovation.

I am not doing a full A&A but the work being done is still significant including a full hacking / demolition of some walls on the main living floor and a small balcony extension on the first floor.

This is my first time doing a renovation / having to deal with an ID, so would appreciate some guidance from the experts on this forum.

Sorry for the long list of questions, but hopefully this post will be helpful for others in the future in a similar position to me!

1. What elements of the ID quotes are most “negotiable”? How much discount do people normally achieve from the initial ID quote to the final agreed contract?
   
2. IDs use third party contractors for hacking, wet works, ceiling works, electrical, plumbing, etc. I have done a comparison between ID quotations on these subcontractor costs and the estimates appear broadly consistent, so it appears they are quoting “market rate” but what % discount have people had in trying to negotiate these subcontractor prices down
   
3. Carpentry is the single largest component in all my quotes (e.g. kitchen, tv consoles, wardrobes, etc). Given the carpentry costs are itemised, it is easy to slash off suggestions that I can live without (e.g. built in wardrobe in maid’s room). However, for the items I want, how negotiable is the price? For example, if they quote me $5k for a wardrobe, what is the price actually being charged by the Malaysian cabinet maker?
   
4. Payment terms: What is the typical progress payment schedule to pay your ID? Does 20% upfront, 40% start work, 30% on carpentry confirmation, 10% on completion sound right?
   
5. Timetable: What protection can I build into the ID contract to ensure the ID sticks to the agreed project timeline? If there are delays, what are reasonable “penalties” or “remedies” that people have been able to get out of their ID to ensure that they are on timetable?
   
6. Typically what is the normal cost overrun to expect in an ID quotation? For example, what happens if they forget to provision for an essential item of the renovation e.g. ceiling for an extension area
   
7. What other things should I watch out for in the ID quote before signing up?
   

Thanks in advance for the help!

[sandywu 0]

Hi, I'm not an expert, but I've just done my HDB renovation. Below are my 2cent worth, hope u find it useful.

I have recently purchased a 15 year old inter terrace and in the process of evaluating ID quotations for a renovation.

I am not doing a full A&A but the work being done is still significant including a full hacking / demolition of some walls on the main living floor and a small balcony extension on the first floor.

This is my first time doing a renovation / having to deal with an ID, so would appreciate some guidance from the experts on this forum.

Sorry for the long list of questions, but hopefully this post will be helpful for others in the future in a similar position to me!

1. What elements of the ID quotes are most “negotiable”? How much discount do people normally achieve from the initial ID quote to the final agreed contract? - Depending on how much work is done. Usually the quotes are done by per feet/ per square feet, the more u do, probably the more discount. Usually if there are discount, could be 3-5%
   
2. IDs use third party contractors for hacking, wet works, ceiling works, electrical, plumbing, etc. I have done a comparison between ID quotations on these subcontractor costs and the estimates appear broadly consistent, so it appears they are quoting “market rate” but what % discount have people had in trying to negotiate these subcontractor prices down - Actually it is not easy to get discount off subcontractor becoz they have to keep the price to "market rate", so they do not kill the ID. In most case, the subcontractors have their regular business from ID, their price will not differ too much from what the ID offer, probably 5-10% max. For the subcontractors to deal with the ID, it's easier coz, the ID will try to gave the exact description and would probably keep errors to zero. As for individual dealing with subcontractors, the subcontractors will have to buffer in the changes by the individual hence they have to mark up the price, "incase" there are changes here and there.
   
3. Carpentry is the single largest component in all my quotes (e.g. kitchen, tv consoles, wardrobes, etc). Given the carpentry costs are itemised, it is easy to slash off suggestions that I can live without (e.g. built in wardrobe in maid’s room). However, for the items I want, how negotiable is the price? For example, if they quote me $5k for a wardrobe, what is the price actually being charged by the Malaysian cabinet maker? - This is workmanship job, sometimes the comparison cannot be done with a local ID and a Malaysian cabinet maker, coz @ the end of the day, if there are any problem with the cabinet, the local established ID firm would probably help you to rectify the problem, whereas the Malaysian cabinet maker could choose to ignore you. Renovation is about service, cost and quality.
   
4. Payment terms: What is the typical progress payment schedule to pay your ID? Does 20% upfront, 40% start work, 30% on carpentry confirmation, 10% on completion sound right? - I'm not too sure, but i guess it should depend on ID firm and the contact sign. Upfront 50% is resonable since they need to factor in the material cost
   
5. Timetable: What protection can I build into the ID contract to ensure the ID sticks to the agreed project timeline? If there are delays, what are reasonable “penalties” or “remedies” that people have been able to get out of their ID to ensure that they are on timetable?- I dun think u can alter the contract since it is the ID's contract and not yours. I also dun think it is a gd idea to have a timeline coz if contractors are forced to stick to timeline, they might give a half-baked job. Your ID would be able to give you an estimated timeline but I would strongly advise that you must buffer in unforessen situation that might cause delays. If there is really a delay, thn you might probably negotiate for a discount ^_^
   
6. Typically what is the normal cost overrun to expect in an ID quotation? For example, what happens if they forget to provision for an essential item of the renovation e.g. ceiling for an extension area- I feel that there shouldn't be a cost overrun, normally the owner will check and confirm the items b4 signing. Even if an item was missed out, it can still be added on during the renovation and the relevant cost should apply.
   
7. What other things should I watch out for in the ID quote before signing up?- Missed out this one. Check all the details in the ID incase there are things missing. Electrical works pricing too. ^_^
   

Thanks in advance for the help!

Edited May 4, 2012 by sandywu

[OnTheRoad 0]

Hi Kingpin,

In addition to the useful info by sandywu, do consider the following:

1. Engage the pest control company for anti-termite treatment before tiling starts.

2. Factor in other items such as auto-gate, awnings, alarm system...

3. Many of the items can be sourced directly, eg decking & listed in (2). Can save some costs there.

Just sharing as I'm doing reno for my own terrace too.

[Togg 0]

Hi kingpin,

I am not expert but I can share with you some important yet painful and costly lessons that I've learnt from my recent Reno

- always finalize the designs or 3D first and do all the necessary negotiation for the items to do before signing contract.

Most ID may charge from 500-1k on design fees which can be offset against their fees if you decide to sign with them. I made this mistake by signing before confirming the design. After signing, any change in design is an added cost to the overall cost...and they have all sorts of reasons to justify the increase.. Some of the added costs are to make up for the lost commissions from things that we don't want them to do after we found out that they markup more than 100% on those items or we don't feel that it's worth the money customising...

Another mistake - as my ID is highly recommended by my friend and I've read some good reviews about them on Reno talk and they appear sincere, patient, nice guys... So i went ahead to sign before finalizing the details and before collecting my keys thinking that changes and revised quotes can still be negotiated with the same manner... But I was wrong and ended up paying a super high price...worse still, workmanship also not as good as what I've heard

l'm surprised that the quotes you got from the ID and contractors are comparable because we found out that our ID charge a markup of 100% for some of the items they quote us...we only found out after we signed with them... hence, a bit regret to engage ID because they didn't really offer good advices or nice designs (ended up i tell him specifically what i want) and yet charge so high.... Haiz....sad

[sandywu 0]

Like they alway say in this forum, compare b4 you commit, check b4 u sign. So long as the price difference is btw 5-10% You know that you are not short change. ^_^

As for workmanships, You have to find more establish ID, rather than new. ^_^