Mansionette Owner

[potatoes 0]

It says that it is a lump sum. and when we checked with our contractor, he told us that all these installation, he has all the equipement to install, therefore why does he need to charge us? hehe... !!

Plumbing works is lump sum at $3300 and lighting fixtures including false ceiling is also lump sum at $1900.

We didnt really compare until we saw a certain ID's and his quote. Guess in the end, when we add here and minus that, the contractor's was still cheaper.

I feel that we need to be careful when we r quoted lump sum..... Coz cost should go in line with the number of lighting points or electrical, heater, tel, tv points.

Best would be to get ID or contractor to do a breakdown.... That's why sometime rewiring cost can be as low as 3k or as high as 6k.....

[andrina 0]

I feel that we need to be careful when we r quoted lump sum..... Coz cost should go in line with the number of lighting points or electrical, heater, tel, tv points.

Best would be to get ID or contractor to do a breakdown.... That's why sometime rewiring cost can be as low as 3k or as high as 6k.....

Ahhh.sure sure! When we start work this fri I will ask for breakdown!

[Exman 0]

Hi All

Many house owners are concern on the wiring works cost and alsocworrying if the vendors are overcharging or how to know if the price is right.

I would like to share my views on the matter.

The main items in the house that uses the high electrical amperes are usually

1. The water heater

2. The air conditioning

3. The oven

4. The clothes dryer

5. Electrical hob

6. Any electrical appliances using high current.

Do not allow many appliances to tap to a single source. The added up appliances current or in technical term as amperes will heat up the wires and shall result to a electrical meltdown and might cause fire.

This can be prevented and is best to have a separate or individual ELCB for each high ampere appliances.

If the a/m connections are observed that the wires or wiring in your house can be used for a long time and actually we do not need to change completely new wires.....

Contractors or vendors for business interest shall like to inject scarecrow tactics to gain deals and house owners on the other hand, for a level of comfort is to change all new wires shall eliminates fires worries....got new wires therefore should be ok....

Even with new wirings, the user too must not allow many appliances to tap on a single power source.

As how to know if the prices quoted are right that is to do a apple to apple comparison.

When getting contractors or IDs to quote that to use the same wire circuit and the same number of sockets and lighting hardware template. This is ensures all quotes are base on the same length of cables and same grade of electrical hardwares provided.

Why usually quotes are lump sum that it mades you not able to know the individual items costing and therefore cannot deduct if there is any short fall....

Like in salseraritz mentioned he was quoted $7700 and thereafter it was reduce or discounted to $6500....thus are some sale gimmicks to entice the owners.....

In my view, the replacement of new cables is not necessary unless there is a major renovation to hack down many walls, re-oriented the rooms or to repositioning/re-organised of power sockets and lighting switches.....

Writers in this blog mentioned eg the low pricing may be china made products. Eg older houses have better quality wires and etc concerns.

The fact that over the time, wires prices have risen quite a lot even the MIC products....

The pricing differs could actually is the method of laying the circuitry that is series link or loop method...which series uses less wires while loop uses more....

Basically in Singapore there is a SISIR quality body ensuring the electrical products are of safe standards.

Some contractors quote very much lower also make us wonder where they obtain the products.

What I did in my EM is just all add on. Like what I mentioned earlier to have individual circuit breakers for the high amps appliances.

If you opt for add on circuitry instead of complete reworking shall not burn a hole in your budget planning especially $7700 wiring cost is a big figure item....

I tend to dispute that all wires shall have a life or time usage. If is true how come the BTOs now has all the wires embedded in the walls.....

[adidaem 6]

I tend to dispute that all wires shall have a life or time usage. If is true how come the BTOs now has all the wires embedded in the walls.....

Well... HDB says:

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10324p.nsf/w/HomeRenoElectricalTnC?OpenDocument

Technical Terms and Conditions

1. All wiring installation work must be executed by an EMA licensed electrical worker

2. Embedding of wiring house in metal/high impact PVC conduit in RC slab, beam, column, wall and in wall plaster or other finishes is not allowed

3. For all types of flats, diameter and penetration depth of power-driven nails/screws must not exceed 6 mm and 40 mm respectively

4. For flats with concealed electrical wiring (original provided by HDB):

a. Please refer to guidelines in sketch Drawing 1 "Drilling of holes in flats with concealed electrical wiring"

b. Precautionary measures should be taken to ensure anchors (including hammering of nails) into the slab are located away from the concealed conduits as shown in the concealed conduit layout plans

5. Electrical wirings in a flat have a limited life span. The estimated average life-span of a PVC electrical cable is approximately 25 years.

6. It is advisable for flat owners to replace the electrical wirings to their flat when the life-span is over or when the conditions have deteriorated. A licensed electrical worker (LEW) will be able to check the conditions of the wirings and advise whether the wirings need to be replaced.

7. Upon completion of the work, the flat owner shall apply to SP Services Ltd for testing through his Licensed Electrical Worker.

So yeah, HDB recognises that wirings have limited lifespan. Wiring can degrade over time due degradation of insulation, exposure to high temperature (that reduces life expectancy), overloading etc. Nothing lasts forever lar...

Risk of using degraded wiring includes residential fires, leakage (resulting in shocks, etc). Plus older layouts catered for far fewer power points than what a typical modern household needs anyway.

For my place, we re-wired everything (at the insistence of my electrical engrg trained hubby) for peace of mind although we got a relatively young EM (16 yo). In a couple of years the degradation may pose a risk so wasn't worth the risk for us. Also installed LAN cables - something to consider if you have not asked for it.

[Exman 0]

Well... HDB says:

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10324p.nsf/w/HomeRenoElectricalTnC?OpenDocument

Technical Terms and Conditions

1. All wiring installation work must be executed by an EMA licensed electrical worker

2. Embedding of wiring house in metal/high impact PVC conduit in RC slab, beam, column, wall and in wall plaster or other finishes is not allowed

3. For all types of flats, diameter and penetration depth of power-driven nails/screws must not exceed 6 mm and 40 mm respectively

4. For flats with concealed electrical wiring (original provided by HDB):

a. Please refer to guidelines in sketch Drawing 1 "Drilling of holes in flats with concealed electrical wiring"

b. Precautionary measures should be taken to ensure anchors (including hammering of nails) into the slab are located away from the concealed conduits as shown in the concealed conduit layout plans

5. Electrical wirings in a flat have a limited life span. The estimated average life-span of a PVC electrical cable is approximately 25 years.

6. It is advisable for flat owners to replace the electrical wirings to their flat when the life-span is over or when the conditions have deteriorated. A licensed electrical worker (LEW) will be able to check the conditions of the wirings and advise whether the wirings need to be replaced.

7. Upon completion of the work, the flat owner shall apply to SP Services Ltd for testing through his Licensed Electrical Worker.

So yeah, HDB recognises that wirings have limited lifespan. Wiring can degrade over time due degradation of insulation, exposure to high temperature (that reduces life expectancy), overloading etc. Nothing lasts forever lar...

Risk of using degraded wiring includes residential fires, leakage (resulting in shocks, etc). Plus older layouts catered for far fewer power points than what a typical modern household needs anyway.

For my place, we re-wired everything (at the insistence of my electrical engrg trained hubby) for peace of mind although we got a relatively young EM (16 yo). In a couple of years the degradation may pose a risk so wasn't worth the risk for us. Also installed LAN cables - something to consider if you have not asked for it.

Thanks adidaem for the enlighting info. This shall address many owners concern on the wiring as to decide on the condition and cost...

Now as stated in the HDB T&C on the wirings that units owners whom wirings are embedded or conceal, on the hindsight shall have a higher price to pay if to change new wiring after 25 years....

Probably before this happen, Sears or emblock program may already in place.....

[chronograph 0]

My parents 3 room HDB is already 45 years old, never change wiring before and still going strong. If not for the SERS, they will live there for good. They will only move out to new unit next year.

The new HDB with conceal wiring uses double run, even better than those old HDB.

For my EM, I add on never do rewiring, only cost me $1.2k for kitchen re-run(cos hack whole kitchen), 4 scv pt, 1 tel pt. 1 heater pt, 24 lighting pt with 3 new pt and 13 new sockets. Oh... it is direct quote from electrician.

Your call.

Edited October 31, 2012 by chronograph

[Piggicia 0]

My parents 3 room HDB is already 45 years old, never change wiring before and still going strong. If not for the SERS, they will live there for good. They will only move out to new unit next year.

The new HDB with conceal wiring uses double run, even better than those old HDB.

For my EM, I add on never do rewiring, only cost me $1.2k for kitchen re-run(cos hack whole kitchen), 4 scv pt, 1 tel pt. 1 heater pt, 24 lighting pt with 3 new pt and 13 new sockets. Oh... it is direct quote from electrician.

Your call.

Yes.. my ID contractor also told me that the wires technically are still good eventhough its a 22 year old unit. he told me not to spend money to rewire coz new wires are of an inferior quality compared to wires 20yrs ago. he only changing the switches and moving points and adding some here n there. my total lighting/wiring is about $2.2k. I think for my unit.. alot of things can keep coz it was vacant for so long n not used. dunno good or bad thing..

[chronograph 0]

We all have a budget for renovation, u need to manage your needs and wants in order to keep within budget.

I don't have much $$ so i go for contractor, only do my needs..... as for wants can come later when have enough saving.

I spent $38k renov only, keeping the marble flooring on level 1, keeping the parquet flooring on level 2 and keeping the stair, the rest all hacked. Besides, another $7k for furnishing. Total 45k.

In a few years time, i will probably do up the study room(carpentry work, cabinet, shelves, tables. etc) when my kids are older, can;t do it now cos they tends to break things at home.

[adidaem 6]

Did a bit of research on electrical wiring lifespan before I found the HDB notice. There is no consensus on a 'fixed' lifespan, but typical quotes are 20 to 40 years. What all the websites agree on is that the lifespan of electrical wirings do not match that of the building. They do mention that lifespan/degradation depends on usage.

I spent $38k renov only, keeping the marble flooring on level 1, keeping the parquet flooring on level 2 and keeping the stair, the rest all hacked. Besides, another $7k for furnishing. Total 45k.

I think in 2008, a $70k reno budget may equate a $100k reno budget in 2012/2013? Didn't do any one-to-one comparison but just based on reno mags and older t-blogs. Stuff are just so much more expensive now.

So lucky to have marble flooring that you could keep... my friend just re-renovated her house after 10 years. Her flooring is marble too. The contractor told her that nowadays quality marble is harder to find in Singapore, and that manpower cost (for installing marble) is much much higher than when she last did her reno.

[chronograph 0]

When i reno on 2008, there was also a slight increase of material cost about 10% to 15%, my contractor warned me to sign early with him so that he can place order sooner. For the same jobs, contractors quoted between 33k to 40k whereas ID quoted 42k to 65k.

The huge difference here is that contractor quotes are generally lower than that of ID.

Besides, my cousin who's in building and construction help me verified the quotes and advised that i go with a contractor.

Soon, i will be sourcing for contractor(maybe ID as well) as i'll be helping my parent run their reno for their SERS new HDB. Then probably a better comparison of the pricing now and 5 years back.

[adidaem 6]

When i reno on 2008, there was also a slight increase of material cost about 10% to 15%, my contractor warned me to sign early with him so that he can place order sooner. For the same jobs, contractors quoted between 33k to 40k whereas ID quoted 42k to 65k.

The huge difference here is that contractor quotes are generally lower than that of ID.

Besides, my cousin who's in building and construction help me verified the quotes and advised that i go with a contractor.

Soon, i will be sourcing for contractor(maybe ID as well) as i'll be helping my parent run their reno for their SERS new HDB. Then probably a better comparison of the pricing now and 5 years back.

Depends on budget I guess. But for me I felt the ID fees were well spent and we wouldn't have been able to get the look we wanted without IDs.

So lucky to have 'industry insider' to help with quotes. Will you be starting a t-blog for your parents place? Will be very interested to see the price comparisons.

Off-topic re: EM, but is the new flat area the same as the old one?

[chronograph 0]

If got the $$$ of course can do up everything u want.

If ID can do the job but at contractor pricing, everyone will be happy. Fat hope hor.

My parent upgrade from 3 room to 4 room.

When comparing, should always check the unit pricing not how big the house is. Example. carpentry: per foot run, flooring: per square feet, window grills: per square feet etc.

Have you check how much is the hacking fee? Per square feet? 2008 my quote was $1.5/psf. I guess pretty much the same today.

Depends on budget I guess. But for me I felt the ID fees were well spent and we wouldn't have been able to get the look we wanted without IDs.

So lucky to have 'industry insider' to help with quotes. Will you be starting a t-blog for your parents place? Will be very interested to see the price comparisons.

Off-topic re: EM, but is the new flat area the same as the old one?

[split84 0]

feeling so stress with getting a contractor..many of them like think em owner very rich all quote high high..sigh..

[salseraritz 0]

May i know opinion from dear EM owners here..what are ur views say....would rather do a major overhaul since u have the $$ now and do a major overhaul for the EM unit now.. which May in future bring up the value of the unit ...with now EM are becoming more in demand...however , the future meaning to say unit will then be 30+ years old and above...

Or would rather make do with the current unit condition and/or do only the necessary reno..

Just curious.. as i tend to have other people commenting... wht bother to do so much when u can save $$... dunno if this question sounds silly...but yea...

[chronograph 0]

Got $$$ plus going to stay long, 5, 10 years -> major overhaul

Got $$$ plus not going to stay long(rent out?) -> minimum reno

Not so much $$$, on budget -> do necessity reno