Urgent! Case Or Sct?

[Niie 0]

Hi all, I am new here. I need some advice on what to do with my renovation contractor.

The handover date for my house is way past the agreed deadline. Now my family is living in an incomplete house. The 5-figure sum which we paid for build-in carpentry work is terribly done with many defects. More than half of the new floor tiles are strangely stained (we overheard them speaking softly that somebody poured acid onto the floor) and they accused us of damaging the floor instead. The floor tiles are uneven with no grouting and some tiles are hollow and shaky. We did floor lamination for all the bedrooms and they suffered obvious dents and scratches. Plastering and painting is worse than the previous plastering and painting done over 30 years ago. The toilet pipes are leaking everyday. Things that we bought and they installed for us are mostly damaged in appearance. They broke and damaged our things and kept mum about it until we discovered them then did they admit to some of it. It's a long story. Nothing is done correctly and nothing is done properly. For whatever damages found inside my house, my contractor always accused us of it.

Our travelling trips are cancelled and so is our Christmas-cum-Housewarming party. Chinese New Year is approaching and this is causing distress and inconvenience to my family and myself.

My contractor now refused to pick my calls for almost 2 weeks. We went to look for his boss and his boss said that he will be personally involved but now he claims that his worker is his own boss and that he can do nothing about it. They seem to be tossing us around like a ball.

Anybody with similar experiences? All feedback is welcome.

Or should I go to CASE or SCT? I am really at a loss on what to do, please advise me with all possible outcome.

Thank you very much.

[AngryOwner 0]

Hi Niie

so sorry to hear about your bad experience. Suggest try CASE first - bring all receipts/invoices detailing what you have already paid, and any outstanding sum...(hope you have not paid all!!)

CASE will help you draft a letter to the contractor which you will have to deliver yourself. After that got other steps... but if your outstanding is more than 10,000, cannot use SCT.

Ultimately, if you have already paid for most of the work, it is unlikely they will come and fix... if you havn't, they may still fix cos they still eyeing the last payment... either way, it is a difficult situation for you...

good luck

Edited December 17, 2011 by AngryOwner

[Niie 0]

Hi AngryOwner

Thanks for your reply.

I have already approached CASE and provided the CSO with all information required. I had already delivered the letter to my contractor's company but until now, I have yet to hear from them.

I have not paid in full yet. Glad that I am still holding on to the last payment. But it seemed to me that my contractor might be forgoing the last payment as he refused to respond to me.

This contractor is recommended to me by my property agent. He complained to my property agent that he is unhappy with me as I did not give him 'face' when I went to look for his boss and that he did not receive my email with regards to the defect list. I email him according to the email address stated on his name card.

Any advice on what to do next?

[Renosotong 0]

I just replied to your post on the other thread.

About the acid, it could be the chemical wash that they usually do when cleaning up the place.

The grouting is usually damaged by that process but touch ups are possible after that.

Be sure you take photos and documents these cases accordingly.

As for your next step, you can give a call to a lawyer or drop them an email.

Usually if they entertain you on the phone, you can get some good advice. They might entice you to meet them up and that would be $$$!

Good luck and keep us posted!

[realmplanet 0]

I always think it is important to check and know "where the workers come from"... (if you get what i mean)

Some just come here anyhow work because if there are s*&t leftover...they will think "wat is the big deal my country also like this what".

i had heard many cases before and the owners end up having to engage another ID/Contractor to finish whatever Sh** left.

Sad for you and hope justice will be done!

[Niie 0]

Hi Realmplanet

Thanks for your concern.

I didn't know that the country where the workers come from will determine the outcome of the renovation work.

For the rest, I am not sure. From what I know,

- the workers are from Bangladesh hired by the company (they did almost everything from electrician to plumber to painter etc.)

- the carpenters are from Malaysia

- the tilers are from China (I happen to find out as the boss stated in 1 of the emails that tilers are 'China man')

Thank you, I hope that justice will be done for me!

[donathon 0]

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your case. I have similar experience but not as serious as yours. From what i know, this type of case will drag for a long time. You may need to look for alternative accomodation instead. Once you move in, it will be very difficult to argue. You should also held the property agent responsible to a certain extend I think.

HDB will suspend the renovation registration of an RRC who has accumulated a maximum of 24 demerit points within the 24-month period. The suspension is one year. If an RRC has accumulated more than the maximum 24 points over the 24-month period, the excess points will roll over to the next registration period. For more serious infringements, the renovation registration will be revoked even if the maximum number of demerit points has not been reached.

Extracted from: http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10324p.nsf/w/RenoCntrctrRenoSys?OpenDocument

I really hope you can resolve this faster. Good luck!

Jiayou!!

Edited December 22, 2011 by donathon

[joshdes 1]

Hi,

Sorry to hear about your case. I have similar experience but not as serious as yours. From what i know, this type of case will drag for a long time. You may need to look for alternative accomodation instead. Once you move in, it will be very difficult to argue. You should also held the property agent responsible to a certain extend I think.

HDB will suspend the renovation registration of an RRC who has accumulated a maximum of 24 demerit points within the 24-month period. The suspension is one year. If an RRC has accumulated more than the maximum 24 points over the 24-month period, the excess points will roll over to the next registration period. For more serious infringements, the renovation registration will be revoked even if the maximum number of demerit points has not been reached.

Extracted from: http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10324p.nsf/w/RenoCntrctrRenoSys?OpenDocument

I really hope you can resolve this faster. Good luck!

Jiayou!!

You should publish the name of the firm so that others will not engage them ever.

[AngryOwner 0]

Hi Niie

Sounds like we had the same experience so I'll share what happened to us further down this reply.

Like Renosotong said, only thing you can do now is document EVERYTHING TO EVERY DETAIL … from the dates and sequence of events to every defect found. This will be important if you decide to go the legal route.

The documentation can help bolster your case that the house is not in a ‘liveable state’ due to the bad reno works. (However, remember that ‘liveable’ is very subjective depending on the judge.) You must also show you have made every possible gesture (phonecalls, emails etc) to be amicable and reasonable in your requests.

You may also use this documentation and approach the free legal clinics offered through the Law Society – list can be obtained through CASE. These are done at your nearby Community Club or Town Council. Basic legal advice only but at least it is free and you get a better idea of your legal standing.

Unfortunately, from our experience and your description so far, it does seem that your contractor is not interested in collecting the final payment, much less doing an adequate job. They also know that homeowners have limited legal actions (through CASE/SCT/Lawyers) unless you willing to spend more money and time. So they rather ignore you (and all the CASE/Lawyer letters you can throw at them) until their own sub-cons chase them for payment, then they appear again with their hands out.

(SCT is probably most effective as they can ultimately send a Baliff to impose a writ of seizure and sales. Limitation is the under $10k claim, some fees required (approx. $350) and the time spent.)

If you have the Time, Energy and Money to fight for your legal rights, go to the lawyers and SCT and, quite frankly, hope that the contractor responds, as there are few quick and easy legal recourses for the homeowner. If you want a ‘liveable state’ as soon as possible, maybe consider rectification by other contractors ( no guarantees though…)

For your own mental well-being, you may also consider another avenue… please see http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/stomp/sgseen/got_service_or_not/854160/contractor_breaks_our_glass_door_yet_insists_we_pay.html#commentSection. (remember what I said about documentation…)

Finally, Our own bad contractor experience:

1) Contractor first provided a full quotation list (e.g. A-Z = $30K) of renovation items with a verbal agreement that end of the day will only be charged what was actually used. Good chemistry then cos recommended by designer whom we trusted (then)

2) Along the way, like you, we found shoddy workmanship, broken equipment etc

3) After a delayed handover and a lot of deficiencies, we started chasing for Final Bill so as to pay them off and close the job. They delayed for 6 weeks, in spite of us chasing them so we can PAY them!!! They missed a final deadline and stopped communication.

4) Went to CASE, who said since we are the ones actually owing the contractor money, we are still liable. However, CASE also said since the Original Quotation was no longer accurate, it is up to us to prove what was actually done and for the contractor to prove his Original Quotation is still accurate.

Lawyers said the same thing and advised that the next legal step is to send them a ‘Legal Letter’(but must pay the lawyers of course.) However, the Legal Letter has no real ‘power’ beyond getting lawyers involved…

So we started measuring every tile, cabinet and wall against the Original Quotation and calculated a new figure based on works ACTUALLY done. To that we also proposed a reduction for the overall shoddy workmanship and damage done to our items, as advised by CASE. Final outstanding figure: a few hundred dollars. Then we waited…

5) 6 months later, they sent another email demanding for payment on Original Quotation. We sent them the detailed list of works actually done. They stopped communication again.

[joshdes 1]

Hi Niie

Sounds like we had the same experience so I'll share what happened to us further down this reply.

Like Renosotong said, only thing you can do now is document EVERYTHING TO EVERY DETAIL … from the dates and sequence of events to every defect found. This will be important if you decide to go the legal route.

The documentation can help bolster your case that the house is not in a ‘liveable state’ due to the bad reno works. (However, remember that ‘liveable’ is very subjective depending on the judge.) You must also show you have made every possible gesture (phonecalls, emails etc) to be amicable and reasonable in your requests.

You may also use this documentation and approach the free legal clinics offered through the Law Society – list can be obtained through CASE. These are done at your nearby Community Club or Town Council. Basic legal advice only but at least it is free and you get a better idea of your legal standing.

Unfortunately, from our experience and your description so far, it does seem that your contractor is not interested in collecting the final payment, much less doing an adequate job. They also know that homeowners have limited legal actions (through CASE/SCT/Lawyers) unless you willing to spend more money and time. So they rather ignore you (and all the CASE/Lawyer letters you can throw at them) until their own sub-cons chase them for payment, then they appear again with their hands out.

(SCT is probably most effective as they can ultimately send a Baliff to impose a writ of seizure and sales. Limitation is the under $10k claim, some fees required (approx. $350) and the time spent.)

If you have the Time, Energy and Money to fight for your legal rights, go to the lawyers and SCT and, quite frankly, hope that the contractor responds, as there are few quick and easy legal recourses for the homeowner. If you want a ‘liveable state’ as soon as possible, maybe consider rectification by other contractors ( no guarantees though…)

For your own mental well-being, you may also consider another avenue… please see http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/stomp/sgseen/got_service_or_not/854160/contractor_breaks_our_glass_door_yet_insists_we_pay.html#commentSection. (remember what I said about documentation…)

Finally, Our own bad contractor experience:

1) Contractor first provided a full quotation list (e.g. A-Z = $30K) of renovation items with a verbal agreement that end of the day will only be charged what was actually used. Good chemistry then cos recommended by designer whom we trusted (then)

2) Along the way, like you, we found shoddy workmanship, broken equipment etc

3) After a delayed handover and a lot of deficiencies, we started chasing for Final Bill so as to pay them off and close the job. They delayed for 6 weeks, in spite of us chasing them so we can PAY them!!! They missed a final deadline and stopped communication.

4) Went to CASE, who said since we are the ones actually owing the contractor money, we are still liable. However, CASE also said since the Original Quotation was no longer accurate, it is up to us to prove what was actually done and for the contractor to prove his Original Quotation is still accurate.

Lawyers said the same thing and advised that the next legal step is to send them a ‘Legal Letter’(but must pay the lawyers of course.) However, the Legal Letter has no real ‘power’ beyond getting lawyers involved…

So we started measuring every tile, cabinet and wall against the Original Quotation and calculated a new figure based on works ACTUALLY done. To that we also proposed a reduction for the overall shoddy workmanship and damage done to our items, as advised by CASE. Final outstanding figure: a few hundred dollars. Then we waited…

5) 6 months later, they sent another email demanding for payment on Original Quotation. We sent them the detailed list of works actually done. They stopped communication again.

Which firm did you engage? Will benefit those who intend to renovate their apartments.

[Niie 0]

Hi Renosotong

Thanks for your reply.

Sorry for the delay, I was trying to figure out how to post some pictures. I am not a tech-savvy person, hopefully the pictures do appear later.

We actually overheard them saying softly among themselves that somebody poured acid onto the tiles. However, my contractor still has the cheek to ask me "what you use to clean your tiles?". The boss dropped by my house in early December and was shocked to see the stains on the tiles. He even commented "what can you all possibly have to stain the tiles in this manner!". A few days later, the boss emailed us claiming that my contractor said that the tiles weren't like that before we move in. Hence my contractor do not understand why are there stains after we move in. The boss suggested for the tile supplier to come and take a look. I wasn't around when the tile supplier came. I supposed she assumed that my kids do not understand dialect and said "Die la! Die la! It's chemical." However, she told my kids that it is a kind of chemical that stained the tiles and it can be easily remove by using another chemical to wash the floor again.

These are some pictures:

I don't think this can be easily solved. With all my boxes around my tiny house, there is hardly any space to move around freely. I could not even clean the floor at all. The floor is still in the original state when my contractor left. Everyone uses almost the same kind of household cleaning agents which are available in the market. If the household cleaning agent can stain my tiles in this manner, then won't everyone be facing the same problem? The boss agreed with me in this aspect (Although I don't understand why he changed his stand so quickly). I believe that my contractor and his boss jolly well know who is responsible for these stains.

Honestly speaking, I don't think my contractor carry out cleaning and chemical washing before I moved in. The entire floor was sticky and covered with white powdery substance which water cannot remove. The cabinets and shelving units have a layer of white powdery substance on them. To add on, I do not understand why my stainless steel items show signs of rusting.

I have already begin taking photos after my contractor repeatedly did not turn up during the scheduled appointments with me. He even switched off his mobile. I have to take leave to meet him at his convenient timing even though I am his client. He is rude and even raised his voice at me. This is his evil side which appeared only after I decided to hold back the last payment (due to incomplete works, poor workmanship and too many defects yet to rectify). In fact, his boss also agreed (I know that the boss might be just pacifying me). This makes me even more certain that my contractor is unreliable, irresponsible and a frequent liar.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Niie

[Niie 0]

Hi Donathon

Thanks for your reply.

Hope everything is alright for you now!

My case has dragged for 2 months already and this caused distress and inconvenience to my family and myself because we have already moved in. By the way, what do you mean by to hold my property agent responsible to a certain extend?

An officer from HDB came yesterday but he said that HDB can do nothing. He will try to help me contact my contractor instead. Extracted from 'Renovation Guide for your HDB Flat', The flat owner shall at all times settle his disputes with the contractor without reference to HDB.

It is until recently then I realised that my contractor is not HDB-approved. As this contractor is recommended by my property agent and the contractor said that they are HDB-approved. Since my permit has to be done manually by the permit holder, my contractor said that his boss will be going down to obtain the permit with him. So I assumed that his company is HDB-approved as he constantly claimed so.

I hope that everyone can learn from my lesson. !! It is important to have HDB-approved contractors doing your house so please check with HDB before engaging any kinds of contractor for any jobs. This will protect your interests and rights.

[joshdes 1]

Hi Donathon

Thanks for your reply.

Hope everything is alright for you now!

My case has dragged for 2 months already and this caused distress and inconvenience to my family and myself because we have already moved in. By the way, what do you mean by to hold my property agent responsible to a certain extend?

An officer from HDB came yesterday but he said that HDB can do nothing. He will try to help me contact my contractor instead. Extracted from 'Renovation Guide for your HDB Flat', The flat owner shall at all times settle his disputes with the contractor without reference to HDB.

It is until recently then I realised that my contractor is not HDB-approved. As this contractor is recommended by my property agent and the contractor said that they are HDB-approved. Since my permit has to be done manually by the permit holder, my contractor said that his boss will be going down to obtain the permit with him. So I assumed that his company is HDB-approved as he constantly claimed so.

I hope that everyone can learn from my lesson. !! It is important to have HDB-approved contractors doing your house so please check with HDB before engaging any kinds of contractor for any jobs. This will protect your interests and rights.

Seems like it's due to the acid wash. Your contractor shouldbe able to do touch up to the grouting. Tile surface I don't know. Thanks for letting us know though. I just told my ID to be extra careful when doing acid wash.

[Pinklicious 0]

Hi Donathon

Thanks for your reply.

Hope everything is alright for you now!

My case has dragged for 2 months already and this caused distress and inconvenience to my family and myself because we have already moved in. By the way, what do you mean by to hold my property agent responsible to a certain extend?

An officer from HDB came yesterday but he said that HDB can do nothing. He will try to help me contact my contractor instead. Extracted from 'Renovation Guide for your HDB Flat', The flat owner shall at all times settle his disputes with the contractor without reference to HDB.

It is until recently then I realised that my contractor is not HDB-approved. As this contractor is recommended by my property agent and the contractor said that they are HDB-approved. Since my permit has to be done manually by the permit holder, my contractor said that his boss will be going down to obtain the permit with him. So I assumed that his company is HDB-approved as he constantly claimed so.

I hope that everyone can learn from my lesson. !! It is important to have HDB-approved contractors doing your house so please check with HDB before engaging any kinds of contractor for any jobs. This will protect your interests and rights.

Which ID you using? I hope it's not the same as me! PM me can?

[Niie 0]

Hi fellow renomates

As stated on his name card, Mr Kenny Cheng, a project coordinator who claims to be a contractor too.

P.S. He is incapable of delivering what he promises, guarantees and assures. Beware.

After one month of MIA, my contractor finally replied me informing me that his works would resume on 29 December 2011. As he did not mention what he is going to do, I arranged for a discussion on that day instead, together with my property agent. On that day, he turned up at my place with one of his workers. Upon the beginning of our discussion, he walked away to answer a call. I asked his worker who will be the in-charge this time, will it be my contractor himself or the worker himself. His worker answered that my contractor is the person-in-charge and will be around. He appeared hostile and kept raising his voice at my family and myself. We were talking to him nicely all the while. He threatened to seek his lawyer's and Singapore Contractor Association Limited for advice to deal with us.

After some time, he calmed down and we went through the list of work to be completed. He sort of kept ignoring us and I overheard him telling his worker to take note all the things as he (my contractor) will not be coming to my house. Even before we end our discussion, he had already stepped out of the house and when my daughter told him that the discussion was not completed yet, he still refused to enter my house. For the rest of the discussion, we stood outside of the corridor and he simply was too busy playing on his mobile to continue the discussion with us. Before he left, he promised that he will send us the work schedule by Saturday 31 December 2011.

On 31 December 2011, he was supposed to arrange for the carpenter, floor lamination maker and door maker to come to my house to let me know what are they going to do and if I am agreeable with what they are going to do. They made an appointment with me at 330pm but they turned up at 4pm instead. And only the carpenter appeared. Previously, the carpenter had the intention to remove the entire built-in bookshelf and re-make for us. But he was stopped by my contractor and designer. That day, the carpenter still wanted to remove it and my contractor still stopped him. My contractor only wanted him to paste another piece of lamination on top of the damages. In the end as the damages to the bookshelf is beyond what I can accept, the carpenter agreed to remove it. Throughout the whole discussion, my contractor kept mum and did not utter a single word.

After they left, my family and I decided to go for dinner and we found them drinking beer at a coffeeshop near my house. I seriously do not know what kind of game my contractor is playing now. It is 20 days away from CNY and I doubt that my house can be completed by then. Furthermore, I have yet to receive the work schedule which he promised (again) to send me by 31 December 2011. When I emailed him yesterday requesting for the work schedule as my family and myself need to make arrangements too, his reply was that we agreed that day to wait until the carpenter dismantle the bookshelf before he send us the work schedule. As he did not speak to me that day, I never agreed with him on anything at all.