Such A Pain To Shop For Led Down Lights?!

[Erwinong 0]

I'm not sure if any has experienced like me. I never knew shopping for LED bulbs and downlights is filled with so much trouble and uncertainty.

I've been to many lighting shops. Everyone will say good stuffs about their LED lights. For eg, I was looking for the MR16. Many shops sell their own "in-house" brands, usually made in China or sometimes Taiwan. Well, basically, they are brandless. These will usually cost cheaper than buying brands like Osram, Philips, etc.

The problem is, they come in different watts and because they are of different brands, there is no objective way to compare brightness. Higher wattage does not mean brighter.

And you thought familiar brands like Philips are good? I thought so too and that's why they cost a lot more. But I've heard shop people tell me Philips is not a good brand as it spoils easily. How confusing that can be! So expensive, with brand name, and yet spoils easily than no brand ones?

Most LED bulbs come with only 1 yr warranty. Generally, many say to reap the benefits of less electrical costs of LED, we need to use them for about 1.5 years. If they spoil after 1 year, and I have to spend $ to replace it, I don't see how LED helps to save $ compared to the energy saving bulbs. Although some argue LED bulbs won't spoil so easily, it's the driver that does. Even then, the driver costs $ right?

And I also heard that though LEDs have a long lifespan like what... 30,000 hrs? They actually start to dim slowly for the cheaper ones. So even if it dims to 70% of its original brightness, it's part of the 30,000 hrs. But that's almost as good as having to change a new one cos it's dimmer!

Then, there's the square or round LED downlights. This one is another headache! Almost all of them are without brands. Some can range from as cheap as $50+ to more expensive $100+ ones, typically. And if it breaks down, you can't usually change anything inside. Got to replace the whole light. How do I know which is reliable? Every shop tells me their is good. But without any brands, with different watts, it's impossible to compare prices or reliability!

I know some buy online at cheap prices. I'm tempted to do so, but I'm not sure about long-term reliability.

Buy "branded" bulbs got problems. No brand also got problems! So how...

Not sure if any of you share my problem when shopping for LED lights.

So which LED MR16 or downlights should I get???

I hope we can share our experiences and knowledge here!

[albertchng 0]

Hi Erwinong

I am doing research now and will be buying LED bulbs and downlights for my new place. Forget MR16 or GU10, i want it easy for my wife to change the bulb so i will only go for E27 instead.

We walked into to a 30 years old lighting shop along geylang road last week, this sales guy keeps telling me to stay away from LED, he went on and told us that 1 of their customers spend more than $10,000 on LED lighting in his house from another shop and regret it so much that the color temperature all difference and lighting pattern is 1 patch dark 1 patch light, 1 patch yellow, 1 patch white... the owner actually want uniform effect, just like a flood light in basketball court. I say to the sales guy, LED effect is for "mood" not flood, when customer say he want uniform flooded light, the other shop should recommend him to PLC lights instead of pushing him to LED, and since customer spend more than $10k in the other shop, the shop should at least dispatch a set of "eyes" to customer's place to help him sorted out the different LED color temperature and group them to be deploy around the house.

LED itself has a life span of 50,000 hours; for non-regulated overdrive circuit, this life span shorten up to 50%, so it is norm for manufacturers to state on the box/website/manual that the life span is between 25,000 to 35,000 hours. The problem is the circuit (driver) may not last that long. No one dares to write down black and white. I have been involve in LED for more than 10 years as a hobby, not professionally. To-date i have LED lights from YR2000, still functioning and working well with the driver still going strong.

This paragraph we talk about LED color temperature, warm white is 2700k/3000k/3500k, turning daylight white with a tint of warm when moving close to 4000k (more warm) and 5000k (less warm), turning into most white when approaching 6000k/6500k/7000k, above 7000k there will be a tint of blue in it. Those China-made LED bulb tends to have a huge temperature range such as 2700k-3500k, 3500k-5000k and 5000k-7000k.Bet you dont know why like that... in order to keep the manufacturer cost down to make more money, they dont invest into quality control (QC), they dont sort the LED according to the color temperature, i'm quite sure that better manufacturers do better QC, +/-10% of color temp is still acceptable. Best if the shop can assist to sort it.

I will go for Philips/Osram/Samsung LED bulb, never go for China-made LED bulb and never order online, unless you dont mind heartache and headache.

Edited November 21, 2011 by albertchng

[designez 0]

Yes it is a pain to get good LED lights here in SG! In the end we went for standard halogen fixtures with warm white 3500K Philips LED replacement bulbs (shaped like halogen bulbs). These are replacable and can be changed easily. You need matching transformers too though.

In addition it also a pain to get a suitable dimmer (leading/trailing edge) to match... Most electricians and shops don't even know what you are talking about!!

Edited November 21, 2011 by designez

[fanyong7980 0]

Hi all, do you guys bought china made downlight E27 type? Is it reliable? Did the shop you bought gave u warranty?

[folwer 0]

me....1 out of 17 spoilt.....i brought online with shipping and stuff is still very cheap, about US$13 per piece. They do have customer service to allow you to ship back.....but at this price, it's not worth...

The problem of buying from china is that when the shipped to you, quality might be different in every batch. the packaging is also quite crappy and you can only depends on the technical specs that they listed out.

The reason why i purchase oversea instead of here is that the shops around here have limited selection and most of them have not work with the technology enough to know what they are talking about....as a business, if i don't have the know how or source for LED lights, I'll definitely push for something that I have, that is why I find most shop will push their PLC lights and claim that LED is not as bring - cause they might not even have seen those CREE based on in action....

For your info. Lot of shop has various lights components all made in china, for example PLC, ballast, fixure....etc...so unless you know your stuff, you are likely to get a light set from the shop that is something like 70%-80% brand less stuff....only the PLC might be from Philips (if you insist...)

[Simontsh 0]

wait till u guys realised most of the shops in singapore also order from china

and philips factory also in china

Edited November 22, 2011 by Simontsh

[espec 0]

me....1 out of 17 spoilt.....i brought online with shipping and stuff is still very cheap, about US$13 per piece. They do have customer service to allow you to ship back.....but at this price, it's not worth...

For your info. Lot of shop has various lights components all made in china, for example PLC, ballast, fixure....etc...so unless you know your stuff, you are likely to get a light set from the shop that is something like 70%-80% brand less stuff....only the PLC might be from Philips (if you insist...)

Do u mind if u email me which online site u got from? Or PM me

Cheers

Edited November 22, 2011 by espec

[fanyong7980 0]

Do u mind if u email me which online site u got from? Or PM me

Cheers

I think now most of the downlight are from china...but some shop claim that they sell m'sia/taiwan brand...not sure if it is true...no brand on the downlight so can assume anywhere..

[Erwinong 0]

Thanks everyone for joining in the discussion. So I am not alone in having headache buy LEDs!

albertchng: The E27 LEDs have drivers already built in right? I have heard of Samsung LED but have never been able to find them in shops! Actually most LEDs are made in China, even Philips and Osram. But I don't mind made in China stuffs provided they have QC and originate in some other countries. For eg, iPhone is also made in China! But I believe the QC there is strong since Apple is a US company. I was told Philips LEDs don't last. And they are so expensive,

After a few years, it is disappointing LEDs have not gained a strong foundation here. My conclusion is that there is no scientific information readily available to consumers. So even the shop people talk nonsense sometimes. Either they try to fool customers, or they themselves got their facts wrong. If you visit enough shops, you will get confused because a handful will say LEDs are a waste or money, not as bright as PLC lights. Others will say LEDs are the way to go, They are brighter than PLCs. Very very confusing indeed.

And it doesn't help that you can't compare prices fairly because most shops use their own sources in China to sell their LEDs. So if you go into a shop and they quote you $40 for an LED bulb, and in another shop it's $30 for the same watts, you might be tempted to go for the $30 one. But because they come from different manufacturer, and the bulbs have no brands, you can't do a fair comparison at all. It may be that the $30 bulb is indeed better than the overpriced $40 one. Or it can swing the other way: The $30 bulb won't last as long as the $40 one. And you can't test the bulbs also. Only time will tell which lasts longer.

Headache!

[albertchng 0]

Thanks everyone for joining in the discussion. So I am not alone in having headache buy LEDs!

albertchng: The E27 LEDs have drivers already built in right? I have heard of Samsung LED but have never been able to find them in shops! Actually most LEDs are made in China, even Philips and Osram. But I don't mind made in China stuffs provided they have QC and originate in some other countries. For eg, iPhone is also made in China! But I believe the QC there is strong since Apple is a US company. I was told Philips LEDs don't last. And they are so expensive,

After a few years, it is disappointing LEDs have not gained a strong foundation here. My conclusion is that there is no scientific information readily available to consumers. So even the shop people talk nonsense sometimes. Either they try to fool customers, or they themselves got their facts wrong. If you visit enough shops, you will get confused because a handful will say LEDs are a waste or money, not as bright as PLC lights. Others will say LEDs are the way to go, They are brighter than PLCs. Very very confusing indeed.

And it doesn't help that you can't compare prices fairly because most shops use their own sources in China to sell their LEDs. So if you go into a shop and they quote you $40 for an LED bulb, and in another shop it's $30 for the same watts, you might be tempted to go for the $30 one. But because they come from different manufacturer, and the bulbs have no brands, you can't do a fair comparison at all. It may be that the $30 bulb is indeed better than the overpriced $40 one. Or it can swing the other way: The $30 bulb won't last as long as the $40 one. And you can't test the bulbs also. Only time will tell which lasts longer.

Headache!

LED is here to stay and will be the only light source for the future. If headache then dont use LED, just go for other energy saving options, cheaper too.

LED if driven correctly by a efficient circuit, can be brighter than PLC light.

[designez 0]

I don't think Philips LEDs have a shorter lifespan... They have been doing lights for 130 years! And as a European brand they are much more customer friendly. A friend had a spoiled LED bulb (probably manufacture defect) and Philips replaced it free of charge!

The only reason why shops don't like to sell Philips LEDs is because the profit margin is much lower on those... Ironically the quality is higher.

BTW this sounds like a good business opportunity: to start a shop with LED expertise!

Edited November 23, 2011 by designez

[folwer 0]

Do u mind if u email me which online site u got from? Or PM me

Cheers

i got it from deal extreme.com .....QC bad, and I think the timing during holiday session usually quite bad....

but the price that you get at, i can afford to have 50% spoilt and still way cheaper then shops.....

[albertchng 0]

Went to Megaman...

salesman told me their LED from Japan and assemble in China. When i ask which company in Japan and under which brand he say dont know... mean what har?

*shake head* unbelieveable... buay pai seh meh?

Edited November 23, 2011 by albertchng

[Erwinong 0]

LED is here to stay and will be the only light source for the future. If headache then dont use LED, just go for other energy saving options, cheaper too.

LED if driven correctly by a efficient circuit, can be brighter than PLC light.

Unfortunately, the lighting market in singapore is very divided now and I don't foresee LED as the mainstay for the next few short years. I would say people here are just starting to use more LEDs but sparingly if ever they choose to do so. Energy saving bulbs are still the more popular ones.

How do you check that the LED is driven by an efficient circuit?

[Erwinong 0]

I don't think Philips LEDs have a shorter lifespan... They have been doing lights for 130 years! And as a European brand they are much more customer friendly. A friend had a spoiled LED bulb (probably manufacture defect) and Philips replaced it free of charge!

The only reason why shops don't like to sell Philips LEDs is because the profit margin is much lower on those... Ironically the quality is higher.

BTW this sounds like a good business opportunity: to start a shop with LED expertise!

I've heard people say bad things about Philips LEDs as an example from personal experiences. They could have singled out other brands, but Philips is THE one who got the blame because they just malfunctioned earlier than expected.

But it's easy to misquote of course. Just because someone's expensive brand electronics gadget breaks down by law of probability, it is easy to stereotype that brand is lousy! But that experience could be a rare one.