Why Led Downlights When Energy Saving Ones Are So Much Brighter?

[Erwinong 0]

Hey guys....

I just went to some shops to look around. I did a comparison between LED downlights and the energy-saving non-LED type. (Think it's called PLC?)

The energy-saving one is noticeably much brighter than LED ones (even at high wattage). The shop owner told me for main lighting, there's really no point in going for LED type. The overall effect will be dimmer than energy-saving kind. He said most people go into LED because they were misled by the "lower energy" consumption. But that's only if you turn on the lights for a very long time like in shops (unlikely for residential homes).

The disadvantage are that LEDs cannot compare in terms of brightness.

For those of you who have used LEDs extensively in your home, eg in Living Room and bedrooms, do you find your lighting to be dim?

I'm quite confused now. Dunno whether to get LED downlights or the energy-saving non-LED lights.

[renoseeker 0]

Who say LED cannot compare in terms of brightness?

I have an LED lamp and it is about as bright as the incandescent one

Edited November 4, 2011 by renoseeker

[Erwinong 0]

Who say LED cannot compare in terms of brightness?

I have an LED lamp and it is about as bright as the incandescent one

I'm not sure if we're talking the same thing. I'm referring to the downlights.

Saw at the shop. LED downlights (most powerful ones) indeed look dimmer than the energy saving, non-LED ones.

[folwer 0]

there are many kind of LED ....are you talking about the CREE type of high intensity led or those led that people put under their car strips....you know those Ah Being kind.....

LED is brighter, but it tends to have a very narrow lamination area, led is only 1 dot, while PLC is much larger. It's not enough to depend on the light alone. Lighting needs to be taken in totality. that means, the driver, the light bulb, the reflectors, the diffuser....all these are equally important.

Do you know that even if you consider only PLC lights, different ballast will have different light output.....

Edited November 4, 2011 by folwer

[Erwinong 0]

there are many kind of LED ....are you talking about the CREE type of high intensity led or those led that people put under their car strips....you know those Ah Being kind.....

LED is brighter, but it tends to have a very narrow lamination area, led is only 1 dot, while PLC is much larger. It's not enough to depend on the light alone. Lighting needs to be taken in totality. that means, the driver, the light bulb, the reflectors, the diffuser....all these are equally important.

Do you know that even if you consider only PLC lights, different ballast will have different light output.....

I'm not referring to the car type. That's "LED strip". Was talking about downlights. Can be any brand.

Yes, I've considered in totality. In fact, I didn't go into the shops and asked them to show me just one bulb and interchange the reflectors, diffuser. I can't separate those isn't it? It's all built-in during manufacture.

Maybe a clearer question I'm asking here would be: Is there the best LED setup or specification (for downlight) that can rival or beat PLC lighting in terms of brightness? The comparison has to be one-on-one. Meaning, one LED downlight casing vs one PLC downlight casing.

So it really doesn't matter what reflector, diffuser, ballast one is using. Just the Best combination to make LED downlight brighter than PLC ones.

I've been to many shops, not one of them tell me LEDs are brighter than PLCs. And when I saw the comparison, the difference is obvious. I'm referring specifically for LED vs PLC for downlights, not the LED strips or T5 lighting.

Unless there's something those shops are not telling me. That's why I hope not to be cheated and would like to seek help here. Really appreciate it!

[Alyssababy 0]

I feel that led is dimmer too, perhaps it is becoz of the small leds "bulbs" spread out and not like the plc where it's 1 pc bulb... my 2 cts my frd veri cute only use led for downlights out of reach and plc for reachable height.. cut cost and easy maintenance, also think led last longer right?

[Alyssababy 0]

I feel that led is dimmer too, perhaps it is becoz of the small leds "bulbs" spread out and not like the plc where it's 1 pc bulb... my 2 cts my frd veri cute only use led for downlights out of reach and plc for reachable height.. cut cost and easy maintenance, also think led last longer right?

[renoseeker 0]

I'm not sure if we're talking the same thing. I'm referring to the downlights.

Saw at the shop. LED downlights (most powerful ones) indeed look dimmer than the energy saving, non-LED ones.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I really need to learn to read....

I have never seen PLC downlights before, so I couldn't help...paiseh

[folwer 0]

Try to see if the led lights is something like this http://www.dealextreme.com/p/e27-1210-6w-84-led-588-lumen-6500k-light-bulb-white-85-265v-ac-35829. Likebi say, there are different type of led lights, you just have to find the right one.

Led or plc with dimming function can be quite expensive....they tend to drive the light weaker and so less bright then without dimmer.

But one thing that I failed to consider. There are a lot of type of plc. You might be able to fit 2x18 watt plc onto the same square as a single 6w led shown above....then of course you will have brighter output.

[Erwinong 0]

Try to see if the led lights is something like this http://www.dealextreme.com/p/e27-1210-6w-84-led-588-lumen-6500k-light-bulb-white-85-265v-ac-35829. Likebi say, there are different type of led lights, you just have to find the right one.

Led or plc with dimming function can be quite expensive....they tend to drive the light weaker and so less bright then without dimmer.

But one thing that I failed to consider. There are a lot of type of plc. You might be able to fit 2x18 watt plc onto the same square as a single 6w led shown above....then of course you will have brighter output.

Thanks folwer for more info.

The link is dead?

Yes, there are 2x___W PLC out there. That's the one that I saw which produced brighter light than the LEDs.

The confusing thing about LEDs is that wattage alone does not say how bright the light is. And the shop assistants are sales people. If we ask them to compare the brightness using some scientific meters, they either don't have it or not interested to show. They only show on the spot. So far, like Allyssababy, I saw that the PLCs are brighter than LEDs.

Maybe I think the bottom line is we must know how bright we want our place to be and also, for what purpose.

[albertchng 0]

Thanks folwer for more info.

The link is dead?

Yes, there are 2x___W PLC out there. That's the one that I saw which produced brighter light than the LEDs.

The confusing thing about LEDs is that wattage alone does not say how bright the light is. And the shop assistants are sales people. If we ask them to compare the brightness using some scientific meters, they either don't have it or not interested to show. They only show on the spot. So far, like Allyssababy, I saw that the PLCs are brighter than LEDs.

Maybe I think the bottom line is we must know how bright we want our place to be and also, for what purpose.

Buy and test them out yourself... both are not dimmable, 1 of them has longer lifespan (25,000 hours) but expensive, the other shorter lifespan (8,000 hours) but cheap.

#1 Philips MyVision LED bulb 9W (60W) E27 Cool Daylight

#2 Philips Tornado Spiral 12W (60W) E27 Cool daylight

LED is good if you switch it on for a long period of time, like 12-15 hours a day. It generate very less heat, the beam and angle of illumination can be controlled, makes it very good for display purposes.

Here's the link http://www.dealextreme.com/c/led-light-bulbs-907

Edited November 22, 2011 by albertchng

[Erwinong 0]

Hmm, is there a catch in dealextreme?! I've heard of it but the prices are so much cheaper than elsewhere. For eg, a 3W LED is selling for $4+, while I was quoted at least $30 in shops here!!

Yes, that's what I've heard about LEDs. Honestly, for most houses, we don't switch on 12-15 hrs a day. So that's why some people say LEDs are not necessary for home use.

[albertchng 0]

Hmm, is there a catch in dealextreme?! I've heard of it but the prices are so much cheaper than elsewhere. For eg, a 3W LED is selling for $4+, while I was quoted at least $30 in shops here!!

Yes, that's what I've heard about LEDs. Honestly, for most houses, we don't switch on 12-15 hrs a day. So that's why some people say LEDs are not necessary for home use.

No catch! They buy in bulk from manufacturers in China. The local folks also buy in bulk from China, they priced it 20% cheaper than the Philips counterpart with cost not more than SGD6, go alibaba.com to check it out if you dont believe me. Shop needs to pay rental, pay salary, pay bills; so they make sure sell you 1 piece can make profit at least 5 times.

I have decided to deploy just 1 piece of LED bulb which will be on 24/7 for praying purpose. The L box in my new place will be using Philips downlight with E27 holder to take the Philips Tornado Spiral 8W(40W) E27 Cool daylight extra bright bulb with lifespan of 8,000 hours, bulb alone is $7.40 per piece (cheap cheap).

Some LED bulb comes with a mini fan inside the bulb, if use with certain incompatible dimmer, it will produce a mosquito sound when dimming function is use, can be quite loud if you have many of this lights in use.

[collins 0]

Both LED and PLC are rated at different lumen output, so it is only fair if downlights of the same class are compared against each other.

Generally speaking, the brightness of LED downlight is equivalent to PLC 3X or 4X of its energy consumption. A 7watt LED downlight should generate equivalent brightness as that of a 21 - 28 watt PLC downlight. Obviously a 2x 26watt PLC is much brighter than a 7watt or 9 watt downlight.

PLC downlights are very bright when they are new. However, remember that the brightness of PLC depreciates much more rapidly than that of LED. For example, after 1 year of usage, PLC lumen output might drop 15% whereas a high quality LED downlight only experiences 2-3% drop. In the long run, LED downlights are able to maintain their brightness much more consistently than PLC in its class. 2-3 years down the road, the PLC downlight will be dim, flickering or even a spoonful of dead bug behind the glass, but its LED counterparts are still shining at 90% of its original brightness. Of course, PLC is still an economical and reliable lightsource, you just have to replace it a bit more often when the bulbs start to age.

[collins 0]

No catch! They buy in bulk from manufacturers in China. The local folks also buy in bulk from China, they priced it 20% cheaper than the Philips counterpart with cost not more than SGD6, go alibaba.com to check it out if you dont believe me. Shop needs to pay rental, pay salary, pay bills; so they make sure sell you 1 piece can make profit at least 5 times.

I have decided to deploy just 1 piece of LED bulb which will be on 24/7 for praying purpose. The L box in my new place will be using Philips downlight with E27 holder to take the Philips Tornado Spiral 8W(40W) E27 Cool daylight extra bright bulb with lifespan of 8,000 hours, bulb alone is $7.40 per piece (cheap cheap).

Some LED bulb comes with a mini fan inside the bulb, if use with certain incompatible dimmer, it will produce a mosquito sound when dimming function is use, can be quite loud if you have many of this lights in use.

Dimming of LED bulb requires compatible power supply and dimmer. If your LED bulb does not support dimming function, especially E27 screw base type, dimming the light might cause permanent damage to the inbuilt power supply which is irreplaceable. The humming sound might come from a vibrating power supply solenoid running under wrong voltage and frequency due to the imcompatible dimmer.