The One With The Gargantuan Task

[adidaem 6]

If you are not convinced scraping and plastering will resolve the problem/root cause, please don't accept the given solution - cos if you give in now and the problem recurs after you have completed reno and moved in... can you imagine the mess it'll create in your place? And I can't remember if you are planning any false ceiling? Perhaps ask your ID find some 'subject matter expert' to have a look - like to get a 2nd opinion?

**************

Just wanted to let you know that I've been enjoying your regular updates and information sharing. I didn't go onsite as often during my reno so I find many of the stuff you've shared really interesting. Jiayou for the reno and your parents are lucky to have you supervise the reno!

[schiz0id 0]

If you are not convinced scraping and plastering will resolve the problem/root cause, please don't accept the given solution - cos if you give in now and the problem recurs after you have completed reno and moved in... can you imagine the mess it'll create in your place? And I can't remember if you are planning any false ceiling? Perhaps ask your ID find some 'subject matter expert' to have a look - like to get a 2nd opinion?

**************

Just wanted to let you know that I've been enjoying your regular updates and information sharing. I didn't go onsite as often during my reno so I find many of the stuff you've shared really interesting. Jiayou for the reno and your parents are lucky to have you supervise the reno!

Hey thanks adidaem, I don't really know what's the best solution. First time I'm met with such a situation. HDB officer can only ask me to monitor since they just finished their renovation and it could be "remnants" from their renovation.

Here's the thing that I suspect might have happened.. My upstairs neighbour has been doing renovation since 10 months ago. Yup, 10 months, not 10 weeks. He told me so himself. They've hacked the kitchen floor tiles TWICE before laying this final selection of granite tiles. I'm wondering if that could've been a factor that water could have seeped through because that particular area was soaked for 10 months?

I've asked the contractor above if they use waterproofing before laying their tiles, he assured me that it's a standard practice and they have already done it. He said this infront of the upstairs neighbour. My ID seems to accept the fact that they are going to redo that spot in the ceiling. And no, we're not doing any false ceiling there.

I will probably ask my ID if there's any other alternative to this problem. Thanks again!

And thanks for the the side note! Appreciate it loads!

[schiz0id 0]

I suggest you leave it for a few more days & monitor.

If it's leaking from upstairs, it should get worse.

If not, then plaster etc.

The Indian so rich, he can hack a few more times no problem one.

Jon

It took 3 weeks for those green algae-like spots to appear. I wonder how much longer it will take to get worse.

Shall ask the plasterer when I see him today. Thanks Jon.

It was great seeing you yesterday!

[silversurf 0]

Bet you must have been cheering when the HDB TO said the magic word Another thing check on your gargantuan to-do list :cheers:

[pebbles 0]

Bet you must have been cheering when the HDB TO said the magic word Another thing check on your gargantuan to-do list :cheers:

Yeah I'm sure it was something to cheer for it was really "argly".

[Lauer 15]

My two-cents worth of thought.

I think that re-plastering etc without finding out the cause is delaying the inevitable - more repairs down the road.

The water-proofing is basically a membrane to allow time for the dampness of a flooring (granite in this case) to dry in due course. Water should not be ponding below a properly laid granite flooring.

Looking at the symptom, the water-proofing is most probably damaged during the second tiling attempt, plus gaps in between the granite tiles in some areas.

When re-plastering, I would suggest leaving it without sealer for a few days so see if the stains recur. Use oil-based sealer before painting only after ascertaining that there is no more recurrence, because the oil-based sealer could hide the problem for a while.

Cheers!

[edenstrauss 3]

Hi buddy,

R those neighbours above ur unit crazy to redo their kitchen flooring twice? Or is it thrice??

Whoa those neighbours above ur unit mux be filthy rich or was there a change of contractors/ ID in the course of their flat's renovation?

If this is the case, it's definitely very damaging for your ceiling becox "injury" had been inflicted onto it in a repetitive manner. As such, your ceiling has been worn out & would age ahead of other units who haven't had any reno or as many hacking from their units above.

Oil-based sealers are very important becox they would be able to absorb moisture leftover by any old leakages. And I would highly recommend that you ask your ID what sort of other chemicals are used during plastering to ensure that your neighbour's contractor aren't cutting corners.

Based on my own interpretation, 3rd party renovators would do the minimum in such a scenario becox what they're doing for you doesn't beef up their profit margin.

Edited November 5, 2011 by edenstrauss

[edenstrauss 3]

I was wondering what granite tiles were and goggled up some pictures for it. Sorry to be so mean in saying this but granite tiles look kinda "dirty" & messy... eeeeeeeee

And there are plenty of complaints that it makes a poor countertop in the kitchen to such an extent that those issues couldn't be described in just a few pages.

Check out what this link has to say about granite materials:

http://www.solidsurfacealliance.org/ss-better-than-granite6.html

I think those neighbours above ur unit are likely to have maintenance issues as time goes on & they're going to regret selecting those granite tiles.

But did your ID mention how their granite tiles are going to affect your ceiling?

Edited November 5, 2011 by edenstrauss

[schiz0id 0]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the advice. Real noob here when it comes to these water problems.

I think what Lauer said has a point. I think i'll get them to plaster first and then monitor the situation before applying the oil-based sealant. Or probably get them to scrape it off, see how bad it is underneath and then proceed from there.

I really wouldn't want to just solve it in the short-term and have greater problems in the long run as Jon has mentioned. Sigh...

Eden, they really are filthy rich. My new neighbour owns several coffeeshops, according to the uncles who tell me (funny how in this neighbourhood, all the "gossip" I hear are from uncles and not aunties! )

Anyway, I didn't get to see the plasterer today. They're only starting works on Tue though all their bags of plaster (more than 20) are now sitting happily outside the flat. Will try to catch him and seek his professional advice before proceeding.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I really appreciate it Will update more when I speak to the plasterer come Tuesday.

Edited November 5, 2011 by schiz0id

[schiz0id 0]

But did your ID mention how their granite tiles are going to affect your ceiling?

Nope, he didn't mention. At that moment, I also didn't ask.

He just said "Oh, no wonder will have this problem..."

[schiz0id 0]

I'm very tempted to call my HDB TO and explain the situation and tell him my concerns about how the extended length of their renovations might affect us. I'm worried the kitchen ceiling is just a first of more to come? *touchwood*

I really don't know how HDB can allow them to do renovations for 10 months. Wet works at that!

[Lauer 15]

Nope, he didn't mention. At that moment, I also didn't ask.

He just said "Oh, no wonder will have this problem..."

Let me try to illustrate the layers based on my understanding, with the caveat that I am not an expert at all.

We have:

1. Granite tiles layer

2. Grouting cement layer used to affix the tiles

3. Water-proofing layer

4. Cement screed for leveling of floor, if required

5. RC layer for slab

6. Cement plaster layer (your ceiling)

So, you could see that for water/moisture to penetrate to your ceiling, it has gone through the 6 layers. It would continue to penetrate even after re-plastering the 6th layer.

Now, each time the upstair neighbor changed his tiles, the floor should be re-hacked to the 4th layer. Otherwise, the floor wouldn't be leveled with other areas such as dining area etc. The question is if the water-proofing had been re-applied properly (this thing is expensive).

Hope these help.

[schiz0id 0]

Let me try to illustrate the layers based on my understanding, with the caveat that I am not an expert at all.

We have:

1. Granite tiles layer

2. Grouting cement layer used to affix the tiles

3. Water-proofing layer

4. Cement screed for leveling of floor, if required

5. RC layer for slab

6. Cement plaster layer (your ceiling)

So, you could see that for water/moisture to penetrate to your ceiling, it has gone through the 6 layers. It would continue to penetrate even after re-plastering the 6th layer.

Now, each time the upstair neighbor changed his tiles, the floor should be re-hacked to the 4th layer. Otherwise, the floor wouldn't be leveled with other areas such as dining area etc. The question is if the water-proofing had been re-applied properly (this thing is expensive).

Hope these help.

You're spot on. That's also my concern. But how do I ascertain that waterproofing layer is done each time new tiles are laid? The contractor is very defensive. I'm wondering if HDB should step in. When I called HDB, the TO just asked me to monitor first to see if it gets worse. From his tone, I suspect he knows they've been doing reno for a long time.

Lauer, what would you do if you were me?

On a side note, my contractor does water-proofing before cement screed. Then another layer after cement screed before laying the tiles in the toilets and kitchen. My downstairs neighbour should have no complaints.

Edited November 5, 2011 by schiz0id

[sleek 2]

schizoid congrats on being able to hack away your argly beam and yet a bitter sweet tinge to that success is this problem with your ceiling and possible serious water leakage problem from your neighbor upstairs. whether they are rich, their reno should not have gone on for 10months, too many delays and mistakes by the people they've hired? they could have damaged the final layer between your flats when they kept re-doing their flooring, while i have no advice or knowledge of how to go about rectifying this situation. i too feel it will be in your family's best interest to get this fixed now before you proceed any further with your ceiling works. all the best dear!

[schiz0id 0]

schizoid congrats on being able to hack away your argly beam and yet a bitter sweet tinge to that success is this problem with your ceiling and possible serious water leakage problem from your neighbor upstairs. whether they are rich, their reno should not have gone on for 10months, too many delays and mistakes by the people they've hired? they could have damaged the final layer between your flats when they kept re-doing their flooring, while i have no advice or knowledge of how to go about rectifying this situation. i too feel it will be in your family's best interest to get this fixed now before you proceed any further with your ceiling works. all the best dear!

Thanks sleek!

I finally understand why people start t-blogs... It really helps to get such support during difficult times like these. I'm really very heartened for you guys

I think it never really hit me until this incident how damaging 10 months of reno works upstairs can be for us. Sigh.... And you hit the nail on the head when you said it really doesn't matter how rich they are. Anyway, seems they are pointing fingers at their ID, ID is pointing fingers at them. It's also a sticky situation upstairs. Anyway, that's their issue to deal with, I currently have this to deal with.

I wish I had the answers on how to deal with it too. Of cos, best way to be absolutely sure is to get them to hack their floor tiles, watch them do the waterproofing layer before laying tiles again for the umpteenth time. Even then, don't know if problem will be solved. Other areas may start seeing similar problems. And who will go through that trouble for us rite?

Thanks for your kind words. Hope to find some resolution on this matter soon!