Fengshui Ba Zi Different From One'S Ba Zi?

[jialuck 0]

3 pillar can form bazi chart? You must descendent of zi ping

Just leave the Hour Pillar empty and read the chart using the 3 known pillars.

Basic stuff really.

[bepgof 20]

Just leave the Hour Pillar empty and read the chart using the 3 known pillars.

Basic stuff really.

No fish prawn alo can, lol.

[tidakboleh 0]

There's a reason why 4 pillars exist. That's why its not 2 pillars or 5 pillars or 9 pillars.

[bepgof 20]

There's a reason why 4 pillars exist. That's why its not 2 pillars or 5 pillars or 9 pillars.

Wow lau, copy my quote.

Zi ping previously having meal in a "ting" whose roof was supported by only 3 pillars, when he was consolidating all the bazi theories (more precise is "hear and say") spreading around in the then community.

Some time later, he had meal in a house which was slightly bigger than the "ting". This house's roof was sopported by 4 pillars(四柱), then he suddenly "realised".....

[bepgof 20]

Just leave the Hour Pillar empty and read the chart using the 3 known pillars.

Basic stuff really.

Really "jialuck" liao. I have seen 3-leg cats.

Don't you know that the "month" and "time" are interdependent while formulating the 4 pillar?

[jialuck 0]

Really "jialuck" liao. I have seen 3-leg cats.

Don't you know that the "month" and "time" are interdependent while formulating the 4 pillar?

I really got to "beg" your pardon.

How the Hour pillar looks like is dependent on the month pillar ?????.....which book are you dependent on ?

Thanks for the comic relief as well as your mumbo jumbo tables.

[bepgof 20]

I really got to "beg" your pardon.

How the Hour pillar looks like is dependent on the month pillar ?????.....which book are you dependent on ?

Thanks for the comic relief as well as your mumbo jumbo tables.

Put 4 pillar issue aside first, I'll show u WHAT i'm talking about - take times, needs to draw some tables. Let me explain some basic stuff on the chinese calender which I believed most are not so aware of:

A solar year (or tropical year) is the time from one spring equinox to the next. It is on average 365.2422 days. A lunar month(or synodic month) is the time from one new Moon to the next. It is on average 29.53 days.

A lunar year consisting of 12 lunar months equals on the average 354.3671 days, which is about 11 days shorter than a solar year. This was a fundamental problem for the ancients. They tried to find a longer resonance cycle and discovered that

235 lunar months is almost the same as 19 tropical years. The difference is only about two hours. This is called the Metonic cycle after the Greek astronomer Meton who used it in 432 BCE, but it was known to the Babylonians by around

500 BCE and to the Chinese around 600 BCE.

A lunar calendar ignores the Sun and the seasons but follows the Moon. The main example is the Muslim calendar. Since 12 lunar months is about 11 days shorter than the tropical year, the Islamic holidays regress through the seasons.

Lunisolar calendars use lunar months to approximate the tropical year. Examples are the Jewish and Chinese calendars. Since 12 months are about 11 days shorter than the tropical year, a leap month (intercalary month) is inserted about every third year to keep the calendar in tune with the seasons.

Notice that the Chinese calendar is not a lunar calendar! The Chinese name 阴阳历，which means lunisolar calendar. One method of inserting leap months is to follow nature. An aboriginal tribe in Taiwan would go out to sea with lanterns at the new Moon at the end of the 12th month. If the migrating flying fish appeared, there would be fish for New Year’s

dinner. If not, they would wait one month. A more predictable method is to use the Metonic cycle. Since 235 = 29x12 + 7, it follows that we need to insert 7 leap months in each 19-years period. This is the method used in the Jewish calendar, and was used in the Chinese calendar before 104 BCE.

It is important to understand that the Chinese calendar is a combination of two calendars, a solar calendar and a lunisolar calendar. The solar calendar starts at the December solstice and follows the 24 节气. This is traditionally called the farmer’s calendar (农历). The lunisolar calendar starts at Chinese New Year and consists of 12 or 13 months. This is what most people think of as the Chinese calendar, and the term farmer’s calendar has come to refer to the lunisolar calendar, even though it is not suitable for farmers.

There are therefore two different years in the Chinese calendar, the suì(岁)and the nián(年). A suì（岁） is the solar year from one December solstice to the next. A nián（年）is the Chinese year from one Chinese New Year to the next. The length

of a nián can be 353, 354 or 355 days in case of a normal year and 383, 384 or 385 days in case of a leap year. Just as we think of the Gregorian year as an approximation to the tropical year, most ppl think of the nián as an approximation to the suì.

Will explain what/how make up of "small" and "big" months in chinese calender, in next post. Very mentally tired now liao.

[Lauer 15]

Keep it going, Sir...

TIA!

Put 4 pillar issue aside first, I'll show u WHAT i'm talking about - take times, needs to draw some tables. Let me explain some basic stuff on the chinese calender which I believed most are not so aware of:

A solar year (or tropical year) is the time from one spring equinox to the next. It is on average 365.2422 days. A lunar month(or synodic month) is the time from one new Moon to the next. It is on average 29.53 days.

A lunar year consisting of 12 lunar months equals on the average 354.3671 days, which is about 11 days shorter than a solar year. This was a fundamental problem for the ancients. They tried to find a longer resonance cycle and discovered that

235 lunar months is almost the same as 19 tropical years. The difference is only about two hours. This is called the Metonic cycle after the Greek astronomer Meton who used it in 432 BCE, but it was known to the Babylonians by around

500 BCE and to the Chinese around 600 BCE.

A lunar calendar ignores the Sun and the seasons but follows the Moon. The main example is the Muslim calendar. Since 12 lunar months is about 11 days shorter than the tropical year, the Islamic holidays regress through the seasons.

Lunisolar calendars use lunar months to approximate the tropical year. Examples are the Jewish and Chinese calendars. Since 12 months are about 11 days shorter than the tropical year, a leap month (intercalary month) is inserted about every third year to keep the calendar in tune with the seasons.

Notice that the Chinese calendar is not a lunar calendar! The Chinese name 阴阳历，which means lunisolar calendar. One method of inserting leap months is to follow nature. An aboriginal tribe in Taiwan would go out to sea with lanterns at the new Moon at the end of the 12th month. If the migrating flying fish appeared, there would be fish for New Year’s

dinner. If not, they would wait one month. A more predictable method is to use the Metonic cycle. Since 235 = 29x12 + 7, it follows that we need to insert 7 leap months in each 19-years period. This is the method used in the Jewish calendar, and was used in the Chinese calendar before 104 BCE.

It is important to understand that the Chinese calendar is a combination of two calendars, a solar calendar and a lunisolar calendar. The solar calendar starts at the December solstice and follows the 24 节气. This is traditionally called the farmer’s calendar (农历). The lunisolar calendar starts at Chinese New Year and consists of 12 or 13 months. This is what most people think of as the Chinese calendar, and the term farmer’s calendar has come to refer to the lunisolar calendar, even though it is not suitable for farmers.

There are therefore two different years in the Chinese calendar, the suì(岁)and the nián(年). A suì（岁） is the solar year from one December solstice to the next. A nián（年）is the Chinese year from one Chinese New Year to the next. The length

of a nián can be 353, 354 or 355 days in case of a normal year and 383, 384 or 385 days in case of a leap year. Just as we think of the Gregorian year as an approximation to the tropical year, most ppl think of the nián as an approximation to the suì.

Will explain what/how make up of "small" and "big" months in chinese calender, in next post. Very mentally tired now liao.

[tidakboleh 0]

Don't you know that the "month" and "time" are interdependent while formulating the 4 pillar?

Yes, you are absolutely correct.

论运者， 以月支为首，分四时而提起五行消长

[Ivy1981 11]

Bepgof n tidakboleh, both of you can write books liaozzzzz......been a long time reading quality wordzzzz

[bepgof 20]

Here I come again on "small" & big" months in chinese calender.

Rule: The day on which the new Moon occurs is the first day of the month.

The length of the months are determined astronomically. Suppose a lunar month is 29.5days, and starts with a new Moon at 13h on May 1. The next new Moon then takes place at 1h on May31, so the month has 30 days. But if the new Moon occurred at 1h on May 1, then the next new Moon would be at 13h on May 30, so the new month would start one day earlier, and we would only get 29days in the month.

A month with 29 days is called 小月, a month with 30 days is called 大月. From a naive point of view, we would expect them to more or less alternate, with occasionally two long months, lián dà(连大), in a row. This was the method until the start of the Táng(唐)dynasty in 619, when the mean Moon, píng shuò(平朔), was abandoned in favor of the true Moon, dìng shuò(定朔). Because of Kepler’s Second Law, the lunations will be longer in the winter and shorter in the summer(Month turns around the earth faster during summer than it does in winter!). It turns out that it is possible to have up to four big months or three small months in a row. An example of four big months as follow:

New Moon Length

1990 Oct.1˜ 8 23h 36m 29d 17h 29m

1990 Nov.1˜ 7 17h 5m 29d 19h 17m

1990 Dec.1˜ 7 12h 22m 29d 19h 28m

1991 Jan.1˜ 6 7h 50m 29d 17h 42m

For (Feb 03 2011–Jan 22 2012), 辛卯nian, remember, i mention the word "nian":

1-30days

2-29days

3-30days

4-29days

5-29days

6-30days

7-29days

8-29days

9-30days

10-29days

11-30days

12-29days

Total = 353 days! Short of "11" days as compare to Gregorian calendar's 364days.

Another thing worth to mention about WHERE to observe the new moon:

Before 1929 the computations were based on the meridian in Beijing (116deg, 25min), but in 1928 China

adopted a standard time zone based on 120deg East. Since 1949 the Purple Mountain Observatory in

Nanjing has been responsible for calendrical calculations in China.

Now all of you see HOW these political decisions/changes affect the calender and therefere affect the DOB & therefore one's so called "Bazi".

Zi Ping must be crying loud and try ways & means to stop all these changes for HIS THEORIES to be held true. (there were still many changes I did not mention here)

Note: Gregorian calendar's 2012 will have "chinese leap month" in 21/4/2012 (四月初一）, 21/5/2012 also (四月初一).

[bepgof 20]

Keep it going, Sir...

TIA!

Hi, thank for the encouraging words.

"Setting up" bazi from DOB manually is a bit complicated, need some tables which takes time. Hope tonite I can finish these tables & let forumers know.

Just to keep this thread "on top" so I won't forget. Anyway, once I promised something, i'll make sure it get fulfilled, this is principle issue.

[Lauer 15]

Hi, thank for the encouraging words.

"Setting up" bazi from DOB manually is a bit complicated, need some tables which takes time. Hope tonite I can finish these tables & let forumers know.

Just to keep this thread "on top" so I won't forget. Anyway, once I promised something, i'll make sure it get fulfilled, this is principle issue.

I am certain that all of us are looking forward to it.

And if you allow me to ask one or two forward questions; in your experience, how accurate is bazi in deciphering the past & foretelling the future of one?

If 100% accurate, then how much can FS alleviate a misfortune (to be happened) or improve on a fortune (also to be happened nia)?

TIA!

[bepgof 20]

Please read with patient, I try to put it in a structured yet easy-to-understand manner. Unavoidable, Chinese characters will be used.

To know construction of bazi manually, one MUST first understand the structure/meaning of:

No.1 (Chinese numerical characters)

10 天干: 甲,乙,丙,丁,戊,己,庚,辛,壬,癸.

12 地支: 子,丑,寅,卯,辰,巳,午,未,申,酉,戌,亥.

No. 2 (24 jieqi (节气)***the “月” here corresponse to the bazi’s “月干”, important. Many get confused with geo-to-lunar conversion’s “月”. Example: 12/6/1977 = 四月初二十六, however, this date is after ”芒种”, so in bazi construction, it should be taken as 五月.

立春(begin)，雨水、惊蛰(一月)、春分、清明（二月）、谷雨、立夏（三月）、小满、芒种（四月）、夏至、小暑（五月）、大暑、立秋（六月）、处暑、白露（七月）、秋分、寒露（八月）、霜降、立冬（九月）、小雪、大雪（十月）、冬至、小寒（十一月）、大寒-立春(end)(十二月)

The 24 jieqi, in fact, indicates the relative positions of the EARTH to the SUN, over the orbit during a “sui”岁 cycle (立春 to大寒). Not to the MOON. One can see that a jieqi to the next is exactly 15 degree difference in between (Sun as centre point). 立春 is usually on 3rd / 4th /5th of Feb (Geo. Calendar). During a Geo. Leap year (366 days) lichun most likely falls on 5 feb.

See below the isometric view of 24 jieqi, in relation of earth to sun, I plotted.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/90/24jieqi2011.jpg/

However, on the CNY day(初一)(nian cycle), the MOON must be a “NEW MOON”= earth’s shade covers the moon during night, so one cannot see the moon. So the CNY day, at times, can be a few days before or after立春.

A nian cycle (which tracks relative position of moon to earth) year could be as short as 352 (29.33x12)days, to, as long as 384(353+31)(leap month inserted) days.

No. 3 (Nian and Sui cycle year, sun, earth, moon positioning)

Bazi’s year, month, day, time follows “sui” cycle year(start from 立春, ends at 大寒), not “nian” cycle year(start from 正月初一，end at 十二月初二九 or 初三时, remember!

This is significantly important to tell that BAZI does not care the relative position of moon to earth, but track only relative position of earth to sun.

OK now we come to bazi construction(manual). I will the example of

Year: 1977, Month: Feb, Date: 6, Time: 11.30pm

4 pillars = year pillar, month pillar, day pillar and time pillar.

In short, 4 pillar is structured as: 年干/年支，月干/月支，日干/日支，时干/时支

Bazi was back dated to 2637BC. If I were to explain here the formular of 2637+x=60y, would take more than 10 posts. So I skip this.

年干/年支 follows the Sexagenary Cycle (六十花甲子)is formed by the combination of 10 天干 and 12 地支. Start from 甲子 till癸亥.

Refer to following tables for the corresponding “year” to their respective”年干/年支”

Note: These table use “nian”, not “sui” year concept, so there could be a “slight error” in年干/年支 if one’s BOD falls between 正月初一 and 立春.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5485/table1yearpillarpage1.jpg

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4830/table1yearpillarpage2.jpg

So, “Year Pillar” for 6/2/1977 is丙辰. 年干 =丙, 年支=辰, Correct ?? Answer is wrong!

The “Lichun” in 1997 fell on 4 th Feb, any date after this would be considered as a “new” year, I have mentioned before.

So, “Year Pillar” for 6/2/1977 is丁巳. 年干 =丁, 年支=巳.

Now come to construction of月干/月支, refer to following table:

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1886/table2monthpillar.jpg

月干/月支 is based on 节令 of that particular year. See the 24 jieqi above.

6/2/1977 's "年干" is "丁". So the "月干" is "壬". Since 6/2/1977 fell under "一月".

"月支" is "寅", because 6/2/1977 fell under "一月", just 2 days after 立春, remember?

"月支" is stright forward, obtain from the table, hold unchange for the whole月。

So，月干/月支 for 6/2/1977 is "壬寅"

Please do take note that "月干" is "年干" dependent.

Now come to construction of日干/日支.

Since鲁隐公三年(公元前722年)二月己巳日till now, the chinese calendar (using 干支) has never been interrupted.

The 日干/日支follows the sexagenary cycle and repeats itself every 60 days. Due to the facts that there are “big”, “small” months with a nian cycle year + a leap month for about every 3 years. This makes manual calculation/construction of 日干/日支 impossible. Must refer this to 历书。

One thing worths mentioning: the cut-off hour for the “day” is at子时,meaning that after 1am is the “next day”. If say born at 12.59am, 59 minute, it is considered as “today day”. May refer to 《克择讲义》：11pm to 12pm = “阴”and 12pm to 1am= “阳”.

日干/日支for 6/2/1977 is "甲午"

Now come to construction of时干/时支, refer to following table:

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7180/table4timepillar.jpg

Day's 干/支 is every 60 days one cycle.

時干 is 日干 dependent, refer to above table.

Since 2/6/1977's 日干 is “甲”, at "巳"(0930am) , 时干 is therefore = 己.

Look at left table, 时支= 0930am = "巳"

So 2/6/1977, 0930am's "time pillar" = 己巳

2/6/1977, 0930am’s bazi = 丁巳, 壬寅, 甲午,己巳.

Clear, any questions?

Edited October 23, 2011 by bepgof

[Lauer 15]

Sir,

Why the Year pillar is based on 60-years cycle? And why the Day on 60-days cycle?

Also, why the Month pillar is Year-dependent, the Hour pillar Day-dependent?

I am trying to understand the fundamentals nia...

TIA!

Please read with patient, I try to put it in a structured yet easy-to-understand manner. Unavoidable, Chinese characters will be used.

To know construction of bazi manually, one MUST first understand the structure/meaning of:

No.1 (Chinese numerical characters)

10 天干: 甲,乙,丙,丁,戊,己,庚,辛,壬,癸.

12 地支: 子,丑,寅,卯,辰,巳,午,未,申,酉,戌,亥.

No. 2 (24 jieqi (节气)***the “月” here corresponse to the bazi’s “月干”, important. Many get confused with geo-to-lunar conversion’s “月”. Example: 12/6/1977 = 四月初二十六, however, this date is after ”芒种”, so in bazi construction, it should be taken as 五月.

立春(begin)，雨水、惊蛰(一月)、春分、清明（二月）、谷雨、立夏（三月）、小满、芒种（四月）、夏至、小暑（五月）、大暑、立秋（六月）、处暑、白露（七月）、秋分、寒露（八月）、霜降、立冬（九月）、小雪、大雪（十月）、冬至、小寒（十一月）、大寒-立春(end)(十二月)

The 24 jieqi, in fact, indicates the relative positions of the EARTH to the SUN, over the orbit during a “sui”岁 cycle (立春 to大寒). Not to the MOON. One can see that a jieqi to the next is exactly 15 degree difference in between (Sun as centre point). 立春 is usually on 3rd / 4th /5th of Feb (Geo. Calendar). During a Geo. Leap year (366 days) lichun most likely falls on 5 feb.

See below the isometric view of 24 jieqi, in relation of earth to sun, I plotted.

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/4872/24jieqi2011.jpg

However, on the CNY day(初一)(nian cycle), the MOON must be a “NEW MOON”= earth’s shade covers the moon during night, so one cannot see the moon. So the CNY day, at times, can be a few days before or after立春.

A nian cycle (which tracks relative position of moon to earth) year could be as short as 352 (29.33x12)days, to, as long as 384(353+31)(leap month inserted) days.

No. 3 (Nian and Sui cycle year, sun, earth, moon positioning)

Bazi’s year, month, day, time follows “sui” cycle year(start from 立春, ends at 大寒), not “nian” cycle year(start from 正月初一，end at 十二月初二九 or 初三时, remember!

This is significantly important to tell that BAZI does not care the relative position of moon to earth, but track only relative position of earth to sun.

OK now we come to bazi construction(manual). I will the example of

Year: 1977, Month: Feb, Date: 6, Time: 11.30pm

4 pillars = year pillar, month pillar, day pillar and time pillar.

In short, 4 pillar is structured as: 年干/年支，月干/月支，日干/日支，时干/时支

Bazi was back dated to 2637BC. If I were to explain here the formular of 2637+x=60y, would take more than 10 posts. So I skip this.

年干/年支 follows the Sexagenary Cycle (六十花甲子)is formed by the combination of 10 天干 and 12 地支. Start from 甲子 till癸亥.

Refer to following tables for the corresponding “year” to their respective”年干/年支”

Note: These table use “nian”, not “sui” year concept, so there could be a “slight error” in年干/年支 if one’s BOD falls between 正月初一 and 立春.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/5485/table1yearpillarpage1.jpg

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4830/table1yearpillarpage2.jpg

So, “Year Pillar” for 6/2/1977 is丙辰. 年干 =丙, 年支=辰, Correct ?? Answer is wrong!

The “Lichun” in 1997 fell on 4 th Feb, any date after this would be considered as a “new” year, I have mentioned before.

So, “Year Pillar” for 6/2/1977 is丁巳. 年干 =丁, 年支=巳.

Now come to construction of月干/月支, refer to following table:

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1886/table2monthpillar.jpg

月干/月支 is based on 节令 of that particular year. See the 24 jieqi above.

6/2/1977 's "年干" is "丁". So the "月干" is "壬". Since 6/2/1977 fell under "一月".

"月支" is "寅", because 6/2/1977 fell under "一月", just 2 days after 立春, remember?

"月支" is stright forward, obtain from the table, hold unchange for the whole月。

So，月干/月支 for 6/2/1977 is "壬寅"

Please do take note that "月干" is "年干" dependent.

Now come to construction of日干/日支.

Since鲁隐公三年(公元前722年)二月己巳日till now, the chinese calendar (using 干支) has never been interrupted.

The 日干/日支follows the sexagenary cycle and repeats itself every 60 days. Due to the facts that there are “big”, “small” months with a nian cycle year + a leap month for about every 3 years. This makes manual calculation/construction of 日干/日支 impossible. Must refer this to 历书。

One thing worths mentioning: the cut-off hour for the “day” is at子时,meaning that after 1am is the “next day”. If say born at 12.59am, 59 minute, it is considered as “today day”. May refer to 《克择讲义》：11pm to 12pm = “阴”and 12pm to 1am= “阳”.

日干/日支for 6/2/1977 is "甲午"

Now come to construction of时干/时支, refer to following table:

http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/7180/table4timepillar.jpg

Day's 干/支 is every 60 days one cycle.

時干 is 日干 dependent, refer to above table.

Since 2/6/1977's 日干 is “甲”, at "巳"(0930am) , 时干 is therefore = 己.

Look at left table, 时支= 0930am = "巳"

So 2/6/1977, 0930am's "time pillar" = 己巳

2/6/1977, 0930am’s bazi = 丁巳, 壬寅, 甲午,己巳.

Clear, any questions?