Downlights Price Difference... Help Needed

[Soundwave23 0]

Hi all, need help on to ask on PLC downlights...

I visited a few shops at Balestier... Decided on a particular PLC downlight (2x13w bulb) (model 8140) & went a few store to compare price... The most exp which 1 shop quoted was $38 while the cheapest we find (at lightings.com) was $19!!!

Its double the price!!!

Any downlight expert here to share some advice?

Does the material, ballast & lighting tube plays a part for the price difference?

Thks!

Edited June 14, 2011 by Soundwave23

[rickoveron 0]

when i was light shopping, i had a few criteria such as light size, number of tubes per light point, tiltable light holder, ballast brand, bulb brand. the one that fits my criteria were quoted to me from $23-$35, so yes, u have just got to do some legwork.

[neubie 2]

yes it does. the cheaper ones are most likely come with magnetic ballasts which consumes more energy than those with built-in electronic ballasts.

magnetic ballast lamps will flicker when turned on, compared to electronic ones which are flicker-free "instant-on"

[Soundwave23 0]

Hi all, need help on to ask on PLC downlights...

I visited a few shops at Balestier... Decided on a particular PLC downlight (2x13w bulb) (model 8140) & went a few store to compare price... The most exp which 1 shop quoted was $38 while the cheapest we find (at lightings.com) was $19!!!

Its double the price!!!

Any downlight expert here to share some advice?

Does the material, ballast & lighting tube plays a part for the price difference?

Thks!

I checked further with the lighting shop which quoted me $38 for the downlights...

The shop claims that the downlight housing is made of cast aluminium, ballast is from ATCO while the fluorescent tube (x2) is from Osram.

Is this price reasonable? Thks!

[moissanite2 0]

Yes, I did my fair share of research here in Renotalk as well as visited many light shops and finally settled on 2x13w plc downlights but my jaw dropped with the number of lights my small flat needed!

I was quoted $18 for a 2x13w plc downlights with Philips light tube and atco ballast. However, after reading some expert advice here and knowing my man is not a handyman cos he doesn't know how to change ballast, I told my light guy to change all my downlights to E27 holder so that there's no ballast to change, as well as suited for LED light tubes once the price drops to an affordable level in future.

But my jaw dropped when he mentioned that he'll be giving me some China made 20w light tubes for the E27 holders instead of 13w. That means each downlight will consume 2x20 = 40w and in a bedroom with 4 downlights, the energy consumption would be 4x40w = 160w!!

Just now, I was studying the various light tubes available for sale at a shop in the market. A 8w Philips super bright tube (for E27) can generate 40W brightness. I'm confused and concerned now. I don't want a shock when I get my utility bills. Wouldn't just one 8w Philips super bright light tube be bright enough rather than 2x20w China unknown brand to churn out 40w brightness??

I read in the garage sale section when a guy sold away his 26w light tubes cos one light tube is bright enough for his downlight. Do I really need 2x20w per downlight? Or 1x8w Philips super bright will do? Any advice is appreciated.

[neubie 2]

Generally bedroom dun need anything brighter than 18w for downlights, for general illumination, three is more than sufficient. But downlights being narrowly focused may not the brightness of a centralized ceiling mounted fluorescent ring light. My bedroom consist 5 x 14w Philips e27 & 4 x strip lights as cove light switched in such a way u dun need turn on all simultaneously, just turn on that corner where required.

[stardust205 0]

I face the same concerns as moissanite2 too..

Getting a chandelier for my dining area and intending to install a dimmer switch.

Was told by staff in a lighting shop that for dimmer function to work.. it requires non-energy saving bulbs.

So if each non-energy bulb is 25W, and my chandelier has 5 bulbs.. = 125W consumption everytime I on the chandelier?!

(that's is x3 the wattage of a normal 40W CFL lamp)

Same goes for my living hall L-Box.

We're keeping the L-Box done up by ex-owner. It has 13 downlights.

If we use the Philips PLC 10W bulbs, does that = 130W of energy consumption?

Can the dimmer still work if we are using these energy-savings PLC Philip bulbs?

Our dimmer is of 500W. Good enough?

Thank you.

[pbr 0]

I face the same concerns as moissanite2 too..

Getting a chandelier for my dining area and intending to install a dimmer switch.

Was told by staff in a lighting shop that for dimmer function to work.. it requires non-energy saving bulbs.

So if each non-energy bulb is 25W, and my chandelier has 5 bulbs.. = 125W consumption everytime I on the chandelier?!

(that's is x3 the wattage of a normal 40W CFL lamp)

Same goes for my living hall L-Box.

We're keeping the L-Box done up by ex-owner. It has 13 downlights.

If we use the Philips PLC 10W bulbs, does that = 130W of energy consumption?

Can the dimmer still work if we are using these energy-savings PLC Philip bulbs?

Our dimmer is of 500W. Good enough?

Thank you.

Dimmer? Didn't know you can dim PLC bulbs. Am actually pretty sure you can't

[moissanite2 0]

Hi Stardust205, we meet again in another thread!

Thanks Neubie for your sharing.

Generally, it's true that energy saving bulbs cannot be dimmed but I think Philips had made a breakthrough in 2009. Check the following link:

http://www.newscenter.philips.com/au_en/standard/about/news/tornado_enews.wpd

I did see this Tornado bulbs in stores recently. Do note that halogen bulb produce the nicest sparkles for chandeliers but they produce a lot of heat as well! If you're keen enough, check out this Philips Tornado range...

My radar for plc downlights are on... I look up to study lights everywhere I go. Was at a Kopitiam food court just now and noticed that they have so many big round downlights, easily more than a hundred! And taking a closer look, one out of the 2 light tubes (which I guess to be 18w tubes)are detached, leaving only one tube working in the twin bulb downlight. That act must have help halved the electricity bills!

If I could have my way, I'd gone for all 3w LED downlights but they're still too costly at this point. While I understand that downlights are embedded in the false ceiling or L-boxes hence limited projection range aka brightness. I'm seriously contemplating to negotiate with my light guy to change the 2x20w Liyoda bulbs to 2x8w (or even just 1x8w, since 8w=40w conventional) superbright Philips energy saving bulbs. Saves my wallet and helps the environment too!

And also, I only read about Osram and Philips bulbs in this forum. Anyone had experience with Liyoda?? Good or not?

[moissanite2 0]

Okie... looks like no one has experience with Liyoda bulbs. Oh well...

Can any kind souls out there advise me what's the difference between Philips Genie and Tornado series bulbs?? When I go to DIY shops, the Philips light bulbs claim on the packaging that 8W=>40W brightness, 12W=>60W brightness, in multitude of 5 times the brightness. The PLC downlights that I have ordered has two light bulbs each and seems like installing just one bulb is not that aesthetically pleasing.

Anyone has tried using one bulb for a two bulb downlight? How many W light bulb did you use? Is 2x20W per downlight too much? I hope to be environmetally friendly and be nice to my pocket too (utilities bills).

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Edited June 28, 2011 by moissanite2

[stardust205 0]

wow.. tat's alot of info, collins.

Currently my L-box installed the Master PL-C 10W 827/2P CFL lamps, which is non-dimmable (yes, it flickers..)

Do you know of any dimmable, energy-savings light bulbs which comes in 2-pins? Philips Tornado series?

Thanks!

For my chandelier, I have 2 set of bulbs- one non-dimmable (more exp but energy-saving type) and one dimmable (much cheaper).

Since I'll be switching on the chandelier pretty often (as that is the only light source for my dining area).. I guess I'll most likely use the energy-saving bulbs more often, and use the dimmable ones only on special occasions. Haha..

Hi, just some personal opinions to share with you all:

Brightness of downlight is not only determined by the light tube itself, but the optical design of the fixture. A downlight fixture for PLC only offers efficiency up to 60-70% in reflecting all the lumen in the intended direction. You will need to consider the beam angle of the fixture optics, ceiling height, spacing and location of installation in order to achieve desirable lighting effect.

After installing 2x 8W PLC into the fixture in lieu of 2 x 13w PLC, the resultant effect might be much dimmer due to light loss in the reflector, even worse if there is a frosted cover in the fixture which blocks another 15% of light. PLC is an omni-directional light source, without the aid of reflector or collimator, the light lacks penetration. If you have a high ceiling, it is more advisable to use more powerful light source or a downlight with a more focused beam angle.

E27 base is convenience to install and saves money, but failure rate is higher as well. This is because the ballast is built into the light and the limited internal space only permits a simple ballast without any protection mechanism. An external ballast makes your light last much longer. Magnetic ballast is not advisable, though it lasts for centuries, but create more energy wastage and sometimes an audible humming noise.

If budget allows, consider LED downlights. They are more expensive, but really last a long time. LED fires downwards, with the optics they are designed to high optical efficiency and specific beam angle to suit different applications. Of course, you are looking at S$45 - S$75 per pc depending on design and output. A few hundred dollars more investment can bring years of benefits.

most energy saving bulbs cannot be dimmed cos the ballast must be specially designed to avoid flickering. Dimmable ones are quite expensive, so are dimmable LED bulb. It might be cheaper just to run 125w on the chandelier if you do not turn it on often. hehe. One more thing to take note is the compatibility of dimemr, this is TRIAC type, resistor type, PWM type dimmers. Make sure the dimmable light matches your existing dimmer.

Cheap downlight fixture is made of stamped steel which tend to rust in the long run amid the humid climate in singapore. Even those made from cast aluminium, without proper surface treatment, creeping corrosion will occur underneath the paint surface. Hence, those super cheap fixture might require a re-spray in the long run. Observe the quality of the powder coat carefully and look for bubbles and impurities in the paint job. the most lasting material is anodized aluminium which resist almost all sorts of corrosion. The fixture will look as good as new even after many years.

Hope you find the info helpful.

Edited June 28, 2011 by stardust205

[stardust205 0]

Thanks collins.

Mm.. Any advice on dimmable lamps for my L-Box?

Existing lamps holders are suited for 2-pin lamps (Philips PL-C 2P which is non-dimmable)

Is there any dimmable 2-pin lamps in the mkt?

Or the only way is to replace the lamp holders with ones that come with dimmer-enabled ballast?

Hopefully the first method is feasible.. as replacing all x13 lamp holders in my L-Box adds up to a very significant cost..

Tks!

Hmm...in that case, you can choose to use the tungsten bulb but dim it to save energy when necessary. That is what i will do. hehe. Of course, the ultimate solution is to use dimmable LED chandelier bulb which only burns 6.7watt and yet dimmable. I used to have some stock, but all sold out now.

[stardust205 0]

yes.. it is of GU10 base. I asked quite a few shops, including ChooChiang Wholesaler.. about dimmable enegry bulbs for this kind of cap base. All say don't have

3 channel remote controller? wow.. sounds hi-tech to me.

Haiz.. I'm kinda resigned to the fate that I can't dim the lights in my L-box.

All the x13 lamps already connected to a single switch. If I don't want to have so many lights (cuz too bright & waste electricity).. can I just simply unplug a few lamps from the lamp-holders? No danger right?

i assume the two pin base you refer to is GU10 base in which it accepts two copper pin with knob tip.

Most lamps come in E27 screw base. Quite hard to find GU10 dimmable energy saving bulb. One solution you might wanna consider is to split your lights into two or 3 groups each controlled by a switch so that you have an 50%-100% or 30%-70%-100% brightness progression control.

You can consider adding a 3 channel remote controller to do that which saves the trouble of laying additional cable and switches for your L-box.

[Synace 0]

Hi Collins,

Your private message mailbox is full, can share your email address?

Thanks.

[xrv750 0]

Hi I have some extra downlights to

Clear.... 10 square of two bulbs and 10 rectangular of single bulb.... Pm me your best price..... hope I don't get ridiculous pm's...