Penthouse Reno, Where To Start

[samsamwch 0]

Hi, will be getting keys to my unit in end July. This is a 12 year old penthouse unit, 1500sqft on one floor and another 1500sqft on roof terrace.

This will be my 3rd time moving house and doing reno.

First time, got HDB and got very tight budget so blur blur and did something just to fit the budget. Engaged a reno firm from IMM. They call themselves ID but I really cannot tell the difference between contractor and ID. Not such thing called concept nor theme. The project manager was the co-owner. Ah beng, but very nice guy. He can sketch very well on paper. Only impression is that the carpentry work was quite exp.

Second time, got second hand condo. Got even tighter budget..only spent $20k on reno and fittings. All use existing flooring, doors, toilets and wardrobes. Also no concept no theme. Got ID, friend of ours. I think she must have regretted working with us. We didnt follow her 3D drawing cos too exp.

This time, I am NOT going on tight budget again. For once, there must some sort of concept and theme. Therefore I want start the reno process correctly and get a real ID.

Steps, I think, (and still thinking):

1. Read a lot on Renotalk.com

2. Get floorplan (done)

3. Decide what are the big items to keep. Decided to keep: Flooring, Wardrobes, Kitchen, Toilets. These are still looking quite good and well maintained..

4. Gather lots of pictures for my wife to see which few she likes, so that I can show ID and get HIM to figure a theme for us (current stage..gathering pictures)

5. Get possession of the unit and go talk to 3-5 IDs and get their proposals...

6. Pray and choose ID

7. Continue to pray..

What should I expect from ID?

1. will the ID come interview my wife, me and even my kids?

2. will the ID help me choose lightings, fittings, curtains and furniture?

3. how about decorations like paintings, indoor and outdoor plants?

Thoughts: Looks like the theme will be constrained by existing brownish broken marble flooring, green window frames, brown wardrobes..

Welcome any advice, please.

[Friendly06 0]

Hi, will be getting keys to my unit in end July. This is a 12 year old penthouse unit, 1500sqft on one floor and another 1500sqft on roof terrace.

This will be my 3rd time moving house and doing reno.

First time, got HDB and got very tight budget so blur blur and did something just to fit the budget. Engaged a reno firm from IMM. They call themselves ID but I really cannot tell the difference between contractor and ID. Not such thing called concept nor theme. The project manager was the co-owner. Ah beng, but very nice guy. He can sketch very well on paper. Only impression is that the carpentry work was quite exp.

Second time, got second hand condo. Got even tighter budget..only spent $20k on reno and fittings. All use existing flooring, doors, toilets and wardrobes. Also no concept no theme. Got ID, friend of ours. I think she must have regretted working with us. We didnt follow her 3D drawing cos too exp.

This time, I am NOT going on tight budget again. For once, there must some sort of concept and theme. Therefore I want start the reno process correctly and get a real ID.

Steps, I think, (and still thinking):

1. Read a lot on Renotalk.com

2. Get floorplan (done)

3. Decide what are the big items to keep. Decided to keep: Flooring, Wardrobes, Kitchen, Toilets. These are still looking quite good and well maintained..

4. Gather lots of pictures for my wife to see which few she likes, so that I can show ID and get HIM to figure a theme for us (current stage..gathering pictures)

5. Get possession of the unit and go talk to 3-5 IDs and get their proposals...

6. Pray and choose ID

7. Continue to pray..

What should I expect from ID?

1. will the ID come interview my wife, me and even my kids?

2. will the ID help me choose lightings, fittings, curtains and furniture?

3. how about decorations like paintings, indoor and outdoor plants?

Thoughts: Looks like the theme will be constrained by existing brownish broken marble flooring, green window frames, brown wardrobes..

Welcome any advice, please.

1) Most definitely the ID won't be interviewing your kids. They will ask for your requirements instead.

2) They will help you to choose and suggest which items matches with your concept or theme.

3) Some of the IDs will help you on making the right choices but i doubt most of them will do so.

You need to make a decision what type of concept you like that matches your lifestyles and also your personality. Most IDs will definitely proposed to you a modern concept as its easy & popular among most people.

[samsamwch 0]

Hi Friendly06, thanks for advice. My wife and I (together with kids) are now collecting design pictures that we like. I will show them to a few IDs. Hopefully one of them can see some mental patterns and triangular to a single consistent theme... I think I should send the following to 8-10 IDs and shortlist 3 after that:

a. collection of design pictures

b. floor plan

c. pictures of subject unit

d. pictures of furnitures/paintings which I want to keep (piano, dining tables, garden chairs, oil paintings..etc)

What do you think?

[samsamwch 0]

Choosing ID is a very tedious process. Met the following folks:

1. IdealHouse - young gentleman, patient. Told me to save wherever i can. confessed that he only knows interior works but cannot help me with the roof terrace. No design ideas yet..waiting

2. Darwin - lady, encouraged me to change my doors and said wardrobes are old fashion and should all be changed. Zero knowledge on roof terrace deckings and trellis. Given me quotation, looks reasonable pricing. No design ideas at all.

3. Super good timber: only can do exterior works. Zero design ideas. Quoted $40psf for trellis and $20psf for ironwood decking. Told me 2.7m slabs may be a problem cos my passage way to roof top is not wide enough

4. Goodhill - only can do exterior works. This guy is knowledgeable. Hope he can come back with good ideas and good price

5. Grassroot Garden - ang mo, sounded very good in design ideas, integrating decking, trellis, landscaping and lighting considerations. But can sense that he is satu-orang shop. Let's see. Also only can do exterior

6. Style line - only supplies bamboo wood. Only do decking, not even trellis.

Tmr seeing 9Lives...

All too tiring..

Edited July 2, 2011 by samsamwch

[samsamwch 0]

1. IdealHouse - cheapest quote so far. No proposed design, no 2-D drawings, just put some icons on floorplan..should i expect more?

2. Darwin - Given me quotation, looks reasonable pricing. No design ideas at all. This ID seem to only compete on price. Am i suppose to request for a design proposal?

3. 9Lives - still waiting

4. Super good timber: only can do exterior works. Zero design ideas. Quoted $40psf for trellis and $20psf for ironwood decking. Told me 2.7m slabs may be a problem cos my passage way to roof top is not wide enough

5. Goodhill - only can do exterior works. This guy is knowledgeable. Only supply Merbau. Reasonable price, no landscaping idea as well..sigh

6. Grassroot Garden - still waiting

7. Style line - bamboo wood looks inexpensive

8. Homeworz - happened to walk pass their shop at TurfCity after timsum lunch at AhYat. Seeing ID this week

9. U-Home - used them in my first reno 10 years ago. Reliable. Just initiated contact.

Should I get a freelance designer?

[blue_skies 3]

I think for indoor renovation, get an ID/contractor depending on what you need.

For the outdoor renovation, get a landscaping company to do it.

I don't think it's a good idea to get everything done by one person as the skills required for these two jobs (indoor / outdoor) are very different.

Anyway just to share, I've been using Ban Nee Chen for plants maintenance and the guys from there do a pretty good job. Perhaps you can give them a call to see if they can do outdoor landscaping for your roof terrace.

[billi 0]

Hi . I personaly think that if you are able to stay in a penthouse . Must get a good designer or a Architect to design your house . just set a budget ,ask the architect to setter everything .

[samsamwch 0]

If I tell ID budget, will they maximize using it and rip me off? How to prevent?

[billi 0]

if not tell them what u wan ask them to quote to you ,

after that base on the design 3D see and what u get ,as a lump sum package so that no gimmick .....

[samsamwch 0]

if not tell them what u wan ask them to quote to you ,

after that base on the design 3D see and what u get ,as a lump sum package so that no gimmick .....

hmmm, sounds like a plan. I am meeting 2 IDs next week. Both demand design fees. Let me try on them..

One ID is quite impressive, she has asked questions like: profile of family members, do i entertain at home lots, any existing furniture/paintings, heavy cooking. Sounded more like designer.

[billi 0]

a good interior designer they will demand for a fee . but they will not do the project . that is real interior design . like architect they design the building but they dont build . all the best good luck .

[arowana 2]

You should read up on Home decor magazines to get an idea of how you want your place to be. Go online and search for pictures of how you want certain things to be. Be creative and use your imagination. You should have a basic theme in mind: modern zen, balinese, contemporary bold, victorian, country style, cement-metal bareness? So many designs. But most 'IDs' in singapore can only do Modern Zen cause it's the safest design and most Singaporeans like the same white color base look. Therefore don't be surprised if most IDs have experience in this design only. And don't be surprised if your house looks similar to other houses. Cause almost all are same theme.

Next you should focus on what are the main color themes you like. Then proceed from there. Also think about what kind of elements do you like in your house. Do you like alot of wood or bare metal or rattan materials? Good IDs will be able to blend in all these ideas into image for you.

The ID will definitely demand a small fee first before producing 3D drawings. It's usually less than 1k. Some might charge more. One ID demanded 2.5k for 3D drawings but I felt it's too pricey and as original as it can be, in HDB, because of small space, there's only so much u can do in a living room, bdroom, kitchen. For that 1k, you should be getting about 7-8drawings. But since yours is a penthouse and you need more drawings, be prepared to pay up to 1.5k maybe? Think it's fair.

IDs will not make money in the designing process, it's all about the contracting work where they start adding in gravy in the itemised parts. You just need to roughly know what's the market price of the items on a per unit costs? Read around the forums, get more quotes to get a better idea of where the market price should be. Also know that there's always a difference in prices from main contractors and subcontractors. Main contractors will be charging 230/ft for wardrobe whereas if you go to the carpenter himself, he might only be charging 180-190/ft. What accounts for the difference? Gravvy for the main contractor.

Generally at the end of the day, I feel the main design thought process will still come back to the owner, for 1k how much of a CREATIVE DESIGN process does one expect? That 1k really is only to pay for the 7-8colored 3D drawings. But it's a fun process for the owner. To take ownership of his place. Treat it as fun and it's very rewarding!

[samsamwch 0]

You should read up on Home decor magazines to get an idea of how you want your place to be. Go online and search for pictures of how you want certain things to be. Be creative and use your imagination. You should have a basic theme in mind: modern zen, balinese, contemporary bold, victorian, country style, cement-metal bareness? So many designs. But most 'IDs' in singapore can only do Modern Zen cause it's the safest design and most Singaporeans like the same white color base look. Therefore don't be surprised if most IDs have experience in this design only. And don't be surprised if your house looks similar to other houses. Cause almost all are same theme.

Next you should focus on what are the main color themes you like. Then proceed from there. Also think about what kind of elements do you like in your house. Do you like alot of wood or bare metal or rattan materials? Good IDs will be able to blend in all these ideas into image for you.

The ID will definitely demand a small fee first before producing 3D drawings. It's usually less than 1k. Some might charge more. One ID demanded 2.5k for 3D drawings but I felt it's too pricey and as original as it can be, in HDB, because of small space, there's only so much u can do in a living room, bdroom, kitchen. For that 1k, you should be getting about 7-8drawings. But since yours is a penthouse and you need more drawings, be prepared to pay up to 1.5k maybe? Think it's fair.

IDs will not make money in the designing process, it's all about the contracting work where they start adding in gravy in the itemised parts. You just need to roughly know what's the market price of the items on a per unit costs? Read around the forums, get more quotes to get a better idea of where the market price should be. Also know that there's always a difference in prices from main contractors and subcontractors. Main contractors will be charging 230/ft for wardrobe whereas if you go to the carpenter himself, he might only be charging 180-190/ft. What accounts for the difference? Gravvy for the main contractor.

Generally at the end of the day, I feel the main design thought process will still come back to the owner, for 1k how much of a CREATIVE DESIGN process does one expect? That 1k really is only to pay for the 7-8colored 3D drawings. But it's a fun process for the owner. To take ownership of his place. Treat it as fun and it's very rewarding!

Thanks for great advice.

I recent met an Ang Mo landscape designer, new in Singapore, did four 3-D drawings for me and didnt ask for any money. Good concept and came up with practical ideas. His fee is 10% of total contractor sum and he is open to either he go source for contractors or I can source for contractors and he will project manage. Because he is new in Singapore, I think he dont have lobangs for contractors for him to "gravy" or worst, contractors will take him as "robert" and start chopping him and flow through to me..

What do you think?

[billi 0]

A true designer alway get a reasonable fee for the design . I think he is a real designer .

Can get the drawing and you can go to Thomson road there is a lot of florist there they also can do good landscape work .

Edited July 19, 2011 by billi

[samsamwch 0]

A true designer alway get a reasonable fee for the design . I think he is a real designer .

Can get the drawing and you can go to Thomson road there is a lot of florist there they also can do good landscape work .

Thanks billi.

I met 2 interesting Designer today. Lets call them D1 and D2.

D1: Lady, chatted non stop with my wife..discussing from maid's room to terrace to lux bedroom even to cooking techniques.. Diploma in Interior Design. Gave many many ideas. But keep asking us to redo all wardrobes. Havent talk about commercial yet, but I know she will charge a design fees.

D2: Lady, appointment at 1pm. Asked to move appt to 2pm in the morning. Arrived 220pm. Very well qualified. Masters in Architecture. Very good, high quality and luxurious ideas. Asked for 15k design fees and prefers just to do design only. If I want turnkey project, we will have to use her contractor..but still got to pay design fees.

On the surface: D2 is more high class than D1. But D2 has an attitude.

If D1$$ = D2$$, would you go for D1 or D2 ?