Executive Living - Sofa

[Jeanius 0]

Hi Jeanius

I had replied to you just now that we cover leather upholstery for 5 years. I am not offended, I am being firm in my replies. Are there other things which you think you need to know other than the warranty? Let me correct you, geniune leather doesnt peel and we do not ask our customers to pay extra for reupholstery, as for details I do not think I have the obligations to share with you here. In your opinion, its merely sales talk, but let me tell you, its the company who make up the sales person and not the other way round. What kind of culture does the company have? The employees have to follow. I have mentioned umpteen times, maybe you missed it cos you are a newbie in this forum and my past postings had been deleted, its the customers are the key to company's existence. Its running in my veins, my conviction that we follow through with our customers regardless of the problems they faced regarding our products.

It took you so many post to let us know that your 5 years warranty covers the leather upholstery. Thank you, that was my question in the begining. Why it took you so long to confirm that. As what samtheman, dave here say, great news to know that. It is marvelous. 5 years warranty for leather upholstery is unheard of.

One more thing I would like to share with you, our sales person will present and explain the terms of warranty to our customers before the sales is being closed.

You do not have to worry about our customers being cheated or shortchanged by EL, if we were to do that you will see that our thread be flooded with negative reviews. The reason why you are here is because we are doing well and you were wondering how can that be, hence you are trying to find something to discredit us. You attempt to twist the facts that we uses bovine because of ambiguity reasons and accused us of using buffalo leather. Which in fact we are not wrong, it can be cow/cattle leather. You imply that by using the word bovine, we have something to hide. After that I told you that we uses cow/leather you keep harping on the our warranty. After that I told you that we honour what has been written on our warranty card, you claimed that we are a company who will closed down after one to two years.

I hope so in the future. You are the one who were always twisting your words and that is why i post here. First you say leather sofa, later you change to bovine leather. Your salesman even written leatherette in one of the invoice issued to your customer which you then corrected it, it was beginning to sounds fishy. After i said that bovine leather could be ox, buffalo, water buffalo, bull, you blew up. Nobody will use the word bovine leather if it is indeed cowhide. It took you several post of anger before you state the above and honour that your company 5 years warranty covers the leather upholstery without any cost. Yes, i have seen many companies change their names over the years, ask your boss, nickname 'Wu-Ta-Lang' about it. I am just warning consumers here about companies and not directing to EL as one of them.

Base on all these written above, you think one cannot see what is your ulterior motive? All I can conclude is that your business are seriously affected by EL and you claimed that we are in a different league, so may I know which league are you in? Maybe you would like to share with us what kind of sofa you carry? the kind of material you used and the range of pricing. Afterwhich we can all determine if you are in a different league.

Come on tell me what is my ulterior motive. I just want to share my experience about leather, the furniture trade and tell consumers to read the warranty card.Looking at all your post, you do not know leather much. I am sure most will agree with me. You are the one twisting words here and there and when spotted, say sorry or put the blame on somebody else.

Judging from the speed that you post, you are somebody who has simply nothing to do except to sit by the computer, waiting for me to reply. You thought that I will simply vanish from this forum? I have to thank you for making EL thread more and more popular, I am not ashame to tell our clients, go and read up in the forum before buying from us. Because I know, ultimately they will come to us with more confidence. Results shows, look at those satisfied customers who complimented us after delivery, name me one negative remark or rather name me one customer who post bad after sales service about us.

I agree with you, i am here also to make your tread more popular then ever, reading word by word on your grammar use and to step in when you are misleading the public. As in my previous posting, i said let time be the judge of your products. That is why i want to know if your 5 year warranty covers the leather upholstery. I wish all your customers well as here it shows that they are in safe hands.

After telling you all these maybe you will be obliged to share with us your company's name and let our fellow forummers judge for themselves. I bet you wont dare. Afterwhich you will have to rack your brains to tell me why you refuse? However let me tell you one thing, its the fear you have in yourself. Why dont you be like me, I uses the nick Executiveliving and not something else? What I say here represents the company, that really shows what is above and open board. What do you think my friend??

You use the nick, executiveliving but under your profile you got nothing, not even your email address or your company's number or your mobile no., bro, you are still hiding la. I am not here to get people to come buy from our company, i am here just to correct the incorrectness, unjust views of some here. I always say 'Knowledge is Power, Not to know is bad, not to wish to know is worse'.

[Daveyap 0]

Hi Sam

I am glad that you are back, I have been kinda missing you. Alright let me tell you what I think, I am looking forward in 5 years time as well. In EL we are treading where no one dares to go. Its uncharted waters, by the way a good leather sofa will last beyond 5 years. You should know better than me.

I am not trying to shoot you down here but I think you are missing the point that Sam the Man is trying to make here. A good leather sofa will certainly last beyond 5 years provided it is well maintained by the users. You will not be able to avoid having those customers who do not have the time or attitude to treat their leather sofas properly. Within 5 years, their leather sofa will give them problems and it is a no brainer to be able to guess correctly that EL will have to resort to their warranty exclusion clauses to repudiate liability.

In the early 90s when I was in my early 20s, my parents bought an expensive semi aniline leather sofa set for the living room costing $11K. I killed the leather sofa within a year because I bought the wrong type of leather conditioner. My parents didn't feel the pain but I felt it for years after that. Now if you have customers who maintained the leather sofa the wrong way and killed it like what I did within 5 years, would you be resorting to the warranty exclusion clause too?

[twins 0]

Er, Jenius, still waiting for your answer. You sound very knowledgable and I assume that the company you are from is a bona fide leather sofa business of high quality. There may be fans of this forum who are sincerely looking for good leather sofa to purchase from a reliable and honest company.

Hey Jeanius, may I know which company you work for, just in case there are potential customers here that may want to consider buying sofas from a company of a different league to EL. Please be honest here. Thanks.

[Executiveliving 0]

You use the nick, executiveliving but under your profile you got nothing, not even your email address or your company's number or your mobile no., bro, you are still hiding la. I am not here to get people to come buy from our company, i am here just to correct the incorrectness, unjust views of some here. I always say 'Knowledge is Power, Not to know is bad, not to wish to know is worse'.

Hi Jeanius

Its hilarious, you are an expert in leather. You are correcting the incorrectness, in other words you are trying to play judge by your own experience and from what you think, you get your knowledge from the internet and claimed that you are an expert, I think let others judge if you are really an expert in this field. In this case we have different opinions. You are not trying to get people to buy from you over here is because you lack the ability. You daren't even tell us where do you come from and let us judge whether what you are saying is the truth.

Whatever it is, its up to others to believe, however I dont think you sounded convincing, I am sure there will be others to point out your mistakes. If I were to err, I would apologised, in your case you will divert the topic by talking something which is irrelevant, that includes telling people about your company history and pay up capital. If you are a geniune businessman, you shoild know it doesnt matter how much pay up you have, it only matters if you have that amount in the bank right now.

Based from all these, I reckoned that you are just a kid who might have just left school. I have much better things to do than to try to change your opinion, which I think you are an incorrigible, stubborn mule.

You are free to write what you want in this forum, I hope you will be even more active so that the more you write the more you reveal your weaknesses.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Executiveliving

[Executiveliving 0]

Er, Jenius, still waiting for your answer. You sound very knowledgable and I assume that the company you are from is a bona fide leather sofa business of high quality. There may be fans of this forum who are sincerely looking for good leather sofa to purchase from a reliable and honest company.

Hi jeanius

Yes! maybe twins is interested in your sofa sets, dont tell me you doesnt want to increase your company profile and business volume? since yours is an honest and reliable company all the more you should protect them by selling good products to them.

[Executiveliving 0]

I am not trying to shoot you down here but I think you are missing the point that Sam the Man is trying to make here. A good leather sofa will certainly last beyond 5 years provided it is well maintained by the users. You will not be able to avoid having those customers who do not have the time or attitude to treat their leather sofas properly. Within 5 years, their leather sofa will give them problems and it is a no brainer to be able to guess correctly that EL will have to resort to their warranty exclusion clauses to repudiate liability.

In the early 90s when I was in my early 20s, my parents bought an expensive semi aniline leather sofa set for the living room costing $11K. I killed the leather sofa within a year because I bought the wrong type of leather conditioner. My parents didn't feel the pain but I felt it for years after that. Now if you have customers who maintained the leather sofa the wrong way and killed it like what I did within 5 years, would you be resorting to the warranty exclusion clause too?

Hi daveyap

I think Sam is a wise guy, he knows that there are warranty terms, under certain circumstances we make good of what is being covered. Sam is worried that we might be carrying things too far and might be carrying things that will be too much for us to handle.

I think we are not making sense here, we warranty our products provided it is being cared for by our customers and it takes a no brainer to understand that they will have to take care of something which they loved and protect. In your case you used a leather conditioner which I think its not meant for semi aniline leather, you want the manufacturer to be responsible for it? You buy a car which is running on petrol but you pumped diesel into it and your car is under warranty, you damaged the engine, would you go back to the agent and told them that you used diesel for your car and as a result the engine is not working?

In EL there are no warranty exclusion clauses, in fact its the reverse, we uses inclusion clauses, we spelt out everything in black and white under waht kind of circumstances your leather will be warrantied. our consumers understands and accepted that. I cannot see why our friend jeanius has a problem with that. The reason I do not want to share the clauses is because we are in business and in business, you do not make things easy for your competitor.

lastly, we had a few cases, where our customers uses a very rough rag and detergent to cleanse their sofa, they literally scrubbed it and guess what? they colours faded instantly, they called us, we went down to take a look and out of good will we replaced the leather for them. They appreciate that, they knew that we didnt compromise the quality. If I were to remember it correctly, there were at least two cases like that.

I think you guys must be thinking that what EL is offering is too good to be true, but I have to tell you, this is the kind of business model we embarked, we scrutinised, argue and decided that we should do our best for our customers. As I mentioned before, I live on a conviction that customers are more important than the organisation itselves. Therefore, within a year, we have the capability to open a mattress boutique which rides on the same ideology.

There are many out there who will try to harm you, demolish you, smear your reputation. i will have to put up my knuckle dusters to fend them off. Fortunately, I have people like 1qqchen, phintastic, robster, shaik and many others whom posted here trusted and supported us. They are the ones who really make my day.

Ultimately, its the thrill, fun and the challenges that feeds my conviction everyday when I go to work, they are given to me by people like them. I hope I answer your questions. Please feel free to post if you still have doubts. have a great day!

Edited November 1, 2011 by Executiveliving

[Executiveliving 0]

You use the nick, executiveliving but under your profile you got nothing, not even your email address or your company's number or your mobile no., bro, you are still hiding la. I am not here to get people to come buy from our company, i am here just to correct the incorrectness, unjust views of some here. I always say 'Knowledge is Power, Not to know is bad, not to wish to know is worse'.

Hi Jeanius

I think I have to add something here, Knowledge is power, not to know is bad, not to wish to know is worse, to pretend to know when you dont know is even worst.

You are trying to show off your linguistic skills which I can clearly see that you are lacking, you context is poor, your language flow and substance. The way you argued your way through shows immaturity in your personality.

I might not have the time to deal with you in the day but I promised I will make time for you at night. If you want to say something here, make sure you have proof, prove that we are not honouring our words, prove that we have sub standard customer service. I understand that its cheap thrill to you, I consider it cheap thrill for me too. By replying to my customer's post urging them to distrusts us when they had already placed order with us shows what sort of person you are. Fortunately, they are discerning enough to know what you are driving at. To tackle people like you takes some time, believe me, you wont last here for long, your confidence will be corroded, your credibility wears off, you will be left alone. mark my words, if you were to change your approach maybe you will be more credible over here.

[Daveyap 0]

Hi daveyap

I think Sam is a wise guy, he knows that there are warranty terms, under certain circumstances we make good of what is being covered. Sam is worried that we might be carrying things too far and might be carrying things that will be too much for us to handle.

I think we are not making sense here, we warranty our products provided it is being cared for by our customers and it takes a no brainer to understand that they will have to take care of something which they loved and protect. In your case you used a leather conditioner which I think its not meant for semi aniline leather, you want the manufacturer to be responsible for it? You buy a car which is running on petrol but you pumped diesel into it and your car is under warranty, you damaged the engine, would you go back to the agent and told them that you used diesel for your car and as a result the engine is not working?

In EL there are no warranty exclusion clauses, in fact its the reverse, we uses inclusion clauses, we spelt out everything in black and white under waht kind of circumstances your leather will be warrantied. our consumers understands and accepted that. I cannot see why our friend jeanius has a problem with that. The reason I do not want to share the clauses is because we are in business and in business, you do not make things easy for your competitor.

lastly, we had a few cases, where our customers uses a very rough rag and detergent to cleanse their sofa, they literally scrubbed it and guess what? they colours faded instantly, they called us, we went down to take a look and out of good will we replaced the leather for them. They appreciate that, they knew that we didnt compromise the quality. If I were to remember it correctly, there were at least two cases like that.

I think you guys must be thinking that what EL is offering is too good to be true, but I have to tell you, this is the kind of business model we embarked, we scrutinised, argue and decided that we should do our best for our customers. As I mentioned before, I live on a conviction that customers are more important than the organisation itselves. Therefore, within a year, we have the capability to open a mattress boutique which rides on the same idealogy.

There are many out there who will try to harm you, demolish you, smear your reputation. i will have to put up my knuckle dusters to fend them off. Fortunately, I have people like 1qqchen, phintastic, robster, shaik and many others whom posted here trusted and supported us. They are the ones who really make my day.

Ultimately, its the thrill, fun and the challenges that feeds my conviction everyday when I go to work, they are given to me by people like them. I hope I answer your questions. Please feel free to post if you still have doubts. have a great day!

I actually used the leather conditioner that was recommended by the company that sold my parent the sofa set so it was not due to my own negligence. Anyway, that was in the past but it was very painful to see such a fine leather sofa drying out and cracking after only 9 months because the pores have been blocked and the leather couldn't breathe.

Warranty Exclusion and Inclusion clauses have essentially the same effects so it does not matter if it is one or the other. They all exclude liability under certain circumstances. It is great to have a 5 year warranty on leather and I hope to see more furniture companies offering such warranties provided the numerous exclusion clauses do not render the warranty useless.

[Executiveliving 0]

Hey, tell you what, me too. Instead of buying a sofa from you guys, i might just go buy a ROC search of your company.

If you need a ROC search, let me know, you need not buy I can email it to you and you can post it in the forum and make more noise. Like I said what you are saying is not in context, why do you need to do a ROC search before buying a sofa? Even if you did what difference does it makes? are you going to enter into a contract with EL that you need to do a ROC search? Its really interesting, I really wish to learn from you.

[Executiveliving 0]

I actually used the leather conditioner that was recommended by the company that sold my parent the sofa set so it was not due to my own negligence. Anyway, that was in the past but it was very painful to see such a fine leather sofa drying out and cracking after only 9 months because the pores have been blocked and the leather couldn't breathe.

Warranty Exclusion and Inclusion clauses have essentially the same effects so it does not matter if it is one or the other. They all exclude liability under certain circumstances. It is great to have a 5 year warranty on leather and I hope to see more furniture companies offering such warranties provided the numerous exclusion clauses do not render the warranty useless.

Hi Daveyap

I share your sorrows, I cannot comment on that. We do not give out warranty cards for nothing.In fact we do not even trust our deliver guys to pass it to our clients during delivery, we filled it up and mailed it out to them instead. Its a double edged sword, use it properly, you gain respect and trust however, you cannot eliminate those who will try to abuse it. If its a bona fide quality issue we will definitely hounor it.

[robster 1]

I have been following this thread rather closely. Mainly because I have purchased a set of sofa from EL. Looking at all the recent posting, I am really interested to know which company does Jenius represent. And I am sure many of the forummers are interested as well. As customers, we just want to make comparisons to see which company gives the best deal. Not to say I will buy a sofa set again, but no harm looking whether I have gotten a good deal or not....

So Jenius, how about letting us know more about your company?

[folwer 0]

I don't think Jenius will disclose the company that he work for....IMO, web reality and actually world can be quite disjointed....so just take the posting here as additional information for your purchase decision. You still need to do your own research/shopping around and simple common sense when you make your purchase.

For me, I find it amazing (and encouraging) that EL can offer warranty for leather for 5 year, whereas non of those high end shops even provide 1 year warranty as it involves shipping the set back to italy....much less those on the 'budget' range of sofa.....

maybe the industry is different, by in mine, the cost of warranty has already been worked in or its renew on a annual basis - if not, there is no way I can run my business

(PS: I definitely not in the furniture industry and definitely NOT a competitor....)

[SamTheMan 7]

Hi Jeanius

May I know who is this wu ta lang you are refering to? Please define wu ta lang, I googled it and nothing came out. Maybe you can advise? I thought that everything can be found in the internet? Please post something with relevant topics. I thought your topic here is bovine leather and our warranty card?

Mr. Executive Living,

FYI, Wu Ta Lang is the nickname that is given to your founder Mr. Alvin Ong by the industry people.

This is an industry thing, I think Jeanius probably shouldn't have brought it up.

[SamTheMan 7]

Sooks

Its not termites, you can be assured of that, they are probably harmless wood beetles. nevertheless I had send our guys to be at your place tomorrow. If indeed as what you mentioned, we will replace the framework for you.

Even if it is not termites just beetles still bad new, I am glad that EL is giving you immediate service.

[SamTheMan 7]

Hi Sam

I am glad that you are back, I have been kinda missing you. Alright let me tell you what I think, I am looking forward in 5 years time as well. In EL we are treading where no one dares to go. Its uncharted waters, by the way a good leather sofa will last beyond 5 years. You should know better than me.

A good sofa will last more than 5 years. However, leather is a sensitive material, it is very hard to differentiate product defect and abuse. If you are as good as you claim you are then you will have to give customers the benefit of the doubt when they report a defect. You will end up replacing a lot of sofas. If you argue that it is abuse then the 5 year warranty will be pointless.