Help! Renovation Permit And Unfriendly Neighbour

[isobront 0]

Hi all, I am highly distressed. I am currently renovating my HDB place. It is a 2 storey walk up and my unit is a ground floor unit. My neighbour upstairs is an American tenant. He has been lodging complaints to HDB that our renovation permit expired and we are still doing work. I checked with my contractor and he told me that all hacking, demolition and cutting of tiles were carried out during the duration of the permit and now that he is just dry laying and doing the fittings, there is no need for the permit. To be safe, I told him to stop work and apply for another permit. We have received our second permit.

I wished this neighbour would have come to us first. It turns out that he just doesn't like us to renovate, but then how can just cos he want peace and quiet then i dont have the right to build my new home meh? i might be wrong lah, and very bad of me to say this, but i really feel that he being a foreigner doesn't understand that most singaproeans try to be neigbourly cos we are used to living in apartments and not big houses. As such we normally complain to our neighbours first then go lodge report.

In any case, i just want to make sure I am not breaking any rules. Am i right to say as long as i got HDB approval and everything submitted for reno, i don't need the permit for regular carpentry work (like built in furniutre etc?) anyways i already applied and got it. my second question is, what is defined as noisy work? mycontractor says no noisy work on saturdays but can work on saturdays. is drilling or knocking of nails considered nosiy work?

Any advice or just words of encouragement would be much appreciated!!

[jaskel 2]

Hi all, I am highly distressed. I am currently renovating my HDB place. It is a 2 storey walk up and my unit is a ground floor unit. My neighbour upstairs is an American tenant. He has been lodging complaints to HDB that our renovation permit expired and we are still doing work. I checked with my contractor and he told me that all hacking, demolition and cutting of tiles were carried out during the duration of the permit and now that he is just dry laying and doing the fittings, there is no need for the permit. To be safe, I told him to stop work and apply for another permit. We have received our second permit.

I wished this neighbour would have come to us first. It turns out that he just doesn't like us to renovate, but then how can just cos he want peace and quiet then i dont have the right to build my new home meh? i might be wrong lah, and very bad of me to say this, but i really feel that he being a foreigner doesn't understand that most singaproeans try to be neigbourly cos we are used to living in apartments and not big houses. As such we normally complain to our neighbours first then go lodge report.

In any case, i just want to make sure I am not breaking any rules. Am i right to say as long as i got HDB approval and everything submitted for reno, i don't need the permit for regular carpentry work (like built in furniutre etc?) anyways i already applied and got it. my second question is, what is defined as noisy work? mycontractor says no noisy work on saturdays but can work on saturdays. is drilling or knocking of nails considered nosiy work?

Any advice or just words of encouragement would be much appreciated!!

Your neighbour is just being unreasonable. If your contractor working from 9-5pm during weekday, is consider legal and not breaking the rules and regulations so he complaint also no use. HDB permit is only for hacking and mostly doing wet works which is for a period of 1 month for resale flat, 4 months for new flat is i remembered correctly.

Carpentry, painting, plumbling work, electrical works are not consider renovation work which require a HDB permit at all. Take eg. u buy kitchen cabinet from IKEA, they come and install, they need to apply HDB permit first? No nosiy work on sat but drilling and knocking do consider noisy work. But if owner DIY himself, then your neighbour have nothing to say at all. HDB also can't do anything to ask you to stop drilling right.

I do hope your neighbour have a chance to do reno and feel it himself then he will be able to understand it. May GOD be with u.

Edited April 1, 2011 by jaskel

[isobront 0]

thanks soo much for your reply. I felt so bullied for a while. I mean he is just trying to exercise his rights and show his might by being so aggressive this way. i wrote a nice letter to him apologizing to him for his distress, saying that i also cannot stand the noise of knocking or drilling, but i try to tolerate it cos ultimately these people will be my neighbors and it is more important to get along with neighbors than have bad blood unnecessarily. Also told him that i will notify him in future of any potential noise and will try to work around his schedule, although i am under no legal obligation to do so.

i hope he understands. Apparently he was **** rude to my contractor when he complain to my agent as well -just this morning - he told my agent "we singaporeans dun know anything about being considerate and resepecting other people's rights". wah lau, he think we all not educated or sthg....of cos he has a right to want peace and quiet, but the freedom to want that should not impinge on my freedom to renovate a home for myself if i don't break any laws right?

Your neighbour is just being unreasonable. If your contractor working from 9-5pm during weekday, is consider legal and not breaking the rules and regulations so he complaint also no use. HDB permit is only for hacking and mostly doing wet works which is for a period of 1 month for resale flat, 4 months for new flat is i remembered correctly.

Carpentry, painting, plumbling work, electrical works are not consider renovation work which require a HDB permit at all. Take eg. u buy kitchen cabinet from IKEA, they come and install, they need to apply HDB permit first? No nosiy work on sat but drilling and knocking do consider noisy work. But if owner DIY himself, then your neighbour have nothing to say at all. HDB also can't do anything to ask you to stop drilling right.

I do hope your neighbour have a chance to do reno and feel it himself then he will be able to understand it. May GOD be with u.

[therat 18]

"we singaporeans dun know anything about being considerate and resepecting other people's rights"

Hmm..

American considerate and respecting other's people right?

hahaha

Pot calling the kettle black.

Look at Iraq.

What reason they use to attack Iraq.

I would say. Don't bother about him.

He just a tenant.

Not happy with the noise.

Go and stay at landed or Private Condo.

As long as your contractor follow HDB rule and time.

I tell you one thing.

Go to STOMP and share your story.

[cyberboi79 0]

Your neighbour is just being unreasonable. If your contractor working from 9-5pm during weekday, is consider legal and not breaking the rules and regulations so he complaint also no use. HDB permit is only for hacking and mostly doing wet works which is for a period of 1 month for resale flat, 4 months for new flat is i remembered correctly.

Carpentry, painting, plumbling work, electrical works are not consider renovation work which require a HDB permit at all. Take eg. u buy kitchen cabinet from IKEA, they come and install, they need to apply HDB permit first? No nosiy work on sat but drilling and knocking do consider noisy work. But if owner DIY himself, then your neighbour have nothing to say at all. HDB also can't do anything to ask you to stop drilling right.

I do hope your neighbour have a chance to do reno and feel it himself then he will be able to understand it. May GOD be with u.

Sorry to hijack this thread... Does that mean simple reno without hacking or tiles laying does not need to apply for permit?? Coz i am getting my house soon and all i plan to do is just electrical work and carpentry like false ceiling and build in cupboards.

[therat 18]

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10324p.nsf/w/...ng?OpenDocument

Guidelines for Building Works

What need permit , what don't require permit.

[chronograph 0]

Say i want to put up a picture, be it nailing or drilling must i apply for permit? Who did not do minor house work that will create some degree of noise? That kind of level should be in acceptable range for normal people.

Your ang mo neighbor super man sibo? Super hearing.... can hear people whispering from distance? KNN.

If it is me, i can't be bother to apply second permit. Will tell my contractor to tell him in the face come talk to me.

Rights?? i also have my rights.

U want quiet, go buy private property... isolate one. Tell him that. Want to stay HDB pigeon hole is like that one.

Ang mo come to SIN, must adapt to our culture not the other way round.

Edited April 2, 2011 by chronograph

[jaskel 2]

Sorry to hijack this thread... Does that mean simple reno without hacking or tiles laying does not need to apply for permit?? Coz i am getting my house soon and all i plan to do is just electrical work and carpentry like false ceiling and build in cupboards.

False ceiling...don't need permit.

Carpentry works....don't need permit.

Electrical....some need some don't need. Flats that have not been provided with higher electrical loading, require an HDB permit to install new 15 Amps power points for air-conditioners or other higher capacity equipment/appliances. Flat owners do not need to apply for an HDB permit to install an air-conditioner or other higher capacity equipment/appliances if the flat is provided with higher electrical loading.

[Tiler Seng 57]

Seems like you were being bullied by your unfriendly neigbour huh?

if that is the case, you should ask your contractor to apply for a brand new permit

and paste a new one month notice on his door, follow up with extensions of renovation permit in the following months

you have to ensure your workers follow restricted work time (9 to 5) before he backstab on you..

1) start to use power drill on your ceiling from 9am every morning.

2) buy a cloths dryer, do not dry your cloths outside balcony window, he is going to drain dirty water on your cloth

3) observe your toilet ceiling and file in your complain if you found water seepage from upper floor.

[Soichiro 0]

1) start to use power drill on your ceiling from 9am every morning.

mai sabo la, they are going to be neighbours eventually. Irritating him further will make matters worse for TS.

On paper, you're doing nothing wrong. But on human relationships... see if u can improve the relationship with this neighbour bah.

Try to pacify him a bit, get him a little food gift or anything appropriate and go to his door and sincerely apologize for the noise, give him some timeline of your reno and promise that you'll ask your contractor to keep it at minimum. Give him your number so that he can complain to you directly if it gets out of hand.

Even if he doesn't take it well, at least u've tried. Just don't retaliate or you'll be at the losing end, living under him. Neighbours must try to be friendly to each other. If he doesn't start, u can start too.

Well.. just my 2c

[therat 18]

Pls. He is a tenant. He had a choice to move house when his tenancy end.

TS bought a house, he can't move freely as what American can.

So.. why he need to lower himself until this stage.

Very clear that the American is bully him b'coz he realize TS can be eaten.

The more TS give way, the more the American will move in.

[Soichiro 0]

Simply put, TS won't gain anything from irritating the neighbour further. Just potential nuisance and tension when he moves in and awkwardness when they bump into each other.

Unless he intends to wage war and force him to move out...!

[edenstrauss 3]

Hi isobront

U have my fullest sympathies that u have such a poor kickstart with your new home when u had crazy neighbours.

If u cannot talk any sense in people like that, then don't confront him to make things worse.

Simply ensure that all your tracks with renovation are all covered. Because a law-abidding citizen can never be jailed/ penalised or sued by trouble makers.

Meaning that you could call up HDB to find out who the technical officer (TO) for your HDB block is. Call up this TO for verification on all your questions pertaining to permits and also read up the HDB link that therat has copied in his earlier comments.

All the TOs are responsible for advising residents.

I had my own fair share of bad chemistry from a mad old hag (& her old man) putting up directly opposite my unit. She doesn't complain to HDB or town council about the noise generated from our drilling & minor reno (covered with HDB permit & endorsed by the relevant authorities). But I had to put up with her verbal abuses & vulgarities.

I also need to put up with the drilling & knocking on & off from the neighbour staying directly above us. When they first shifted in, we hear drilling & knocking every now & then for the past 3 years; and as late as 10pm - and we try to tolerate becox they aren't wealthy enough for major reno so do up their flat in bits & pieces after they returned home from work.

And never give the American neighbour staying upstairs the impression that u & ur family are scared of him. I don't mean to be rude or insinuating when saying this (there are nice Americans around too!), but being an American doesn't mean that they are a class higher than locally bred Singaporeans.

The HDB culture here is such that one has to be tolerant to be able to live happily with others as the personal space is pretty "tight" as u could see that many of us share our corridoors.

What makes him think that the surroundings need to be altered to suit his likes & dislikes? It's so obvious that he has a bad attitude problem! And definitely a trouble maker...

So if he thinks that he cannot tolerate the noise & cannot make the HDB lifestyle his way of life, then he better pack up & buy himself a landed property! Or better still, live in a recluse. A hermit

[Tiler Seng 57]

also check if he is legal tenant, otherwise.... your turn to log in complain

[edenstrauss 3]

Hey that's a good one!

It'll be terribly unfortunate if he turns out to a Singapore PR becox people like that wouldn't be welcomed whenever he goes.