Diy First-time Buyer, How Do I Avoid Paying Commision?

[tempestblue 0]

Hi everyone.

Just need some advice from you guys. I'm a first time buyer looking for resale flats, and after reading through many property forums and attending the HDB resale talk, I'm quite determined to DIY my flat purchase, hoping to save the 1% of a typical buyer's sales commision, or potentially $5000! I think I've got a relatively good grasp of what I need to do regarding eligilibility, HLE, OTP, 1st and 2nd appts, and the timelines involved. I also have agent friends whom I can ask for advice if I really need to.

However, in reality, whenever I call up advertised flat listings, many times the agent listing it isn't even representing the seller, but insists on representing me before even showing me the flat that 'his colleague is representing'. I guess this is one of those 'already-cobroked' situation.

Question is, what is the best way to handle these situations as a direct buyer who wants a chance to view the flat, but doesn't want any agent to represent him? Should I:

1)Ask immediately about the agent's status and declare upfront that I am not willing to pay any commision? (Usually this means I don't even get to view the flat)

2)Keep quiet, act dumb and just say whatever I need to say to get that 1st viewing, while not signing anything?

3)Get my agent friend to help negotiate? (I really don't see the need to hire an agent, but if that's what it takes to even get a viewing, then i'd rather pay my friend than a stranger)

Anyone has any other creative advice or method of handling such a situation?

Cheers

[marshmallow 0]

my fren was in similar situation as you. in the end, he paid an ang bao to his agent friend to "represent" him. like you, he rather pays his friend than to pay those other agents.

[gimz63251073 0]

yeap, agree with marshmallow.

as it is right now, its still a sellers market. Agents usually have no problem finding buyers, its just a matter of price.

a few of my friends are hunting for flats and trying to get a good bargain by offering COV than requested by seller agent. Of course their bid got thrown out of the window...

Good luck in your house hunting.

[Kobelala 8]

I tried your method.... No agent representing me.... i tot I can save at least $5k... ..

But no, don't forget that the agents are professional in this line, if they know over the phone that you're a direct buyer, they get their colleague to act as a co-broke agent during viewing...

I think if you're a seller, this may work your way, but buyer, I think a little tricky... and like what gimz63251073 said; it's a seller's market now, they really got no problem finding buyers..

Anyway, good luck !

Edited March 21, 2011 by Kobelala

[zullin 0]

was in your shoes a while back. jus keep calling the ads in saturday newspaper. after a while you will know which units are the already co-broke and which are sellers ads jus by the questions they ask. but it can also be a hit or miss. we ran into a few buyers agent which were so persistant! goodness, so annoying.

in the end, we manage to find a unit but still had to pay comm coz the house was represented by the buyer agent. seller agent bo-chup. we then nego with the buyer agent and manage to save a $2k.

honestly i think buyer agents are redundant.

[bepgof 20]

Seller can sell like hot cake without agent, buyer without agent can get units which "nobody want". Why? Think!

Hi everyone.

Just need some advice from you guys. I'm a first time buyer looking for resale flats, and after reading through many property forums and attending the HDB resale talk, I'm quite determined to DIY my flat purchase, hoping to save the 1% of a typical buyer's sales commision, or potentially $5000! I think I've got a relatively good grasp of what I need to do regarding eligilibility, HLE, OTP, 1st and 2nd appts, and the timelines involved. I also have agent friends whom I can ask for advice if I really need to.

However, in reality, whenever I call up advertised flat listings, many times the agent listing it isn't even representing the seller, but insists on representing me before even showing me the flat that 'his colleague is representing'. I guess this is one of those 'already-cobroked' situation.

Question is, what is the best way to handle these situations as a direct buyer who wants a chance to view the flat, but doesn't want any agent to represent him? Should I:

1)Ask immediately about the agent's status and declare upfront that I am not willing to pay any commision? (Usually this means I don't even get to view the flat)

2)Keep quiet, act dumb and just say whatever I need to say to get that 1st viewing, while not signing anything?

3)Get my agent friend to help negotiate? (I really don't see the need to hire an agent, but if that's what it takes to even get a viewing, then i'd rather pay my friend than a stranger)

Anyone has any other creative advice or method of handling such a situation?

Cheers

Edited March 21, 2011 by bepgof

[godloveyou 0]

As buyer, best to do "homework" first then walk-in, pay commission to agent recommend by seller's agent.

- With buyer agent presence, seller agent "not cooperative", display all sorts of tectics, as no "extra juice" to drink. The "extra juice" reserves for seller agent's buddies.

- If no "juice" to be given by buyer, buyer can't get units of choice. Only those "unwanted" left.

Simply logic right?

Seller can sell like hot cake without agent, buyer without agent can get units which "nobody want". Why? Think!

[tempestblue 0]

Thanks everyone for replying. Wow, the comments just make me more pessimistic about the whole affair. Looks like no matter how I do it, I will get the short end of the stick. :-/

But no, don't forget that the agents are professional in this line, if they know over the phone that you're a direct buyer, they get their colleague to act as a co-broke agent during viewing...

Yes that's the thing I realise. And these flats are never listed by the seller's agent, only by the agent trying to fish a buyer, so there's no way for me to bypass them.

Is there?

in the end, we manage to find a unit but still had to pay comm coz the house was represented by the buyer agent. seller agent bo-chup. we then nego with the buyer agent and manage to save a $2k.

In the end, what tactics and reasoning did you use to negotiate with the buyer agent? And what services did he perform for you, e.g paperwork, flat inspections etc?

Seller can sell like hot cake without agent, buyer without agent can get units which "nobody want". Why? Think!

As buyer, best to do "homework" first then walk-in, pay commission to agent recommend by seller's agent.

- With buyer agent presence, seller agent "not cooperative", display all sorts of tectics, as no "extra juice" to drink. The "extra juice" reserves for seller agent's buddies.

- If no "juice" to be given by buyer, buyer can't get units of choice. Only those "unwanted" left.

Simply logic right?

If I understand the scheme correctly, the agents collude as part of a 'team' so that when they get a flat to sell, they try to make themselves exclusive agents for that flat, then ask their colleagues to advertise for buyers (since now an agent can't represent both buyer and seller). So 2 agents earn 1% and 2% from buyer and seller. Direct buyers either cough up the money or get pushed aside for others willing to pay.

I just find it frustrating that, as HDB says, there is really no need for agents if I know what I am doing, but the way these agents have guarded their property listings makes it impossible for me. Bah, so unfair!

Back to my original dilemma:

1)In this case, would having an agent friend act for me even be beneficial, since he would most likely not be part of the same agency, and would encounter the 'sorry, already co-broked' situation? Would I not end up still having to pay the buyer agent commision, AND an angpow for my friend for trying to help?

2)If I -must- let an agent represent me, can you guys share any valid negotiation tactics?

[TheZard 0]

tempestblue, u can read my thread for some answers:

http://www.renotalk.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39241

like u, i also kenna a lot of 'stories' from these so-called 'salesperson' but i work around them, by asking my relatives who are agents themselves & they helped me. i was very frustrated i wanted to start a blog exposing the tactics salesperson will use. but maybe posting here can also help somebody.

Edited March 22, 2011 by TheZard

[steelze 0]

i face similar problem last year april when i wanted to DIY my purchase. plan failed... still paid the "zero-value-generator" 4k for simple paper work.

i think asking your own property agent friends to act on your behalf will help u save a bit of $$$ or even FOC if he is a good friend. alternaively, u buy from colleagues, friends, relatvies or whoever you know directly /indirectly who are selling also and want to save their seller;s commission as bad as you want. =)

[Sam Lee Poh Huat 0]

Dear all,

I managed to buy my flat recently by myself, without agent's help. I agree this agency fee is really wasting money as one can do their own paper work. There maybe alot of paper work and there's a need to pay attention to those timelines but if one covers all grounds and knows what's expected (just read and re-read HDB webpage procedures), honestly everyone can do themselves. Even for sellers.

I managed to get a good unit with good seller and good seller's agent. Honest and upright, so i'm so blessed. I agree it's rare but there are such units outside there. One of the other units I was looking at then, the ad seemed to be put up by a seller, i enquired and thought still was a seller's unit. So fixed appt to view unit, upon searching in propertyguru.com, i realised there was another agent putting an ad of the same house. So i contacted that agent to clarify. The agent told me he was the seller's agent and the only exclusive seller's agent. He had co-broked this unit with the 1st agent i spoke with. Hearing this i was quite dulan for the 1st agent not being upfront with me. Good thing was this seller's agent wasn't buddies or chum siong with the 1st agent i spoke with, so he told me that I don't have to come and see the unit with him, can always come by myself. So i cancelled the appt with 1st agent and just came to see the unit, to meet only the seller's agent. Anyway, i didn't like that unit, so it's a diff story.

Here are my recommended steps of actions:

1) If you find a unit that you like on the webpage is nice, call and check to clarify is the agent the EXCLUSIVE seller's agent for the seller? If so, proceed to see the unit if he doesn't demand that you use his agent friend to become your buyer's agent.

2) if he acts like he wants to become your agent, you can nicely ask him to F off and stop contacting him. Then go and find another posting/ad on propertyguru.com or iproperty.com or newspapers which is of a diff agent, which is the seller's agent. Contact him directly and see whether you can fix an appt with the seller's agent directly.

3) If (2) fails and seller's agent already has a buddy in crime, and you really want to see the unit coz pics very nice, agree to make appt, don't talk about buyer's commission yet (mostly they wouldn't talk about it yet also)

4) Once you see the unit, if you really love it, get a sense of seller's price idea. But walk away, Come back by yourself without seller's or buyer's agent knowledege. Ring seller's doorbell and offer him straight away. Tell him your situation that's why you have to resort to this. Important thing to seller is that he gets the highest price for his unit, he doesn't care how he's going to sell, just highest price. But because of these rogue agents who do buddies-in-crime tag team games, sometimes a higher offer from a buyer can be passed over by a lower offer where there's 2+1% commission being paid out in total.

I personally rather not do such things but if i've to, i will as agents can be scheming at times, treat them like car salesmen, only in for the quick buck. Yes you can meet a good one and pls treat that one with respect and use him next time for future business but more than half are crap scum. Sorry.. such games can be played. Just need to be smart in negotiation and know how to deflect them professionally.

Cheers

Hi guys,

Just some queries on recommendation number 4, r we violating any rules if let's say I had already given the exclusive right to a agent but yet on the other hand decided to sign the agreement privately with the BUYER in the later stage?

Edited April 4, 2011 by FD1976

[salavanun 0]

if u really like the unit juz pay the comm. scenario is like direct buyer asking price 10k cov. cobroke buyer 25k cov. direct buyer not willing to pay any comm 30k cov, this is if the unit very sellable. if u get a unit juz like that by not paying any comm u have to worry why it comes so easy,,,regards

[Sam Lee Poh Huat 0]

You mean you are a buyer and are looking for a flat? If you engage an agent to help you find, ie the agent is now your buyer's agent?

Then technically you should make it clear with your agent, for e.g. if your agent finds a unit for you, then it's 1% comm. If you find the unit yourself, you'll only pay like say 0.5% comm which is fair. He just handles paper work or can even just arrange to pay fix fee of few thousand. It really is just paper work. Not hard to do.

Thanks for the reply. Some typo in my earlier reply as I am putting my stand as a SELLER who has, let say, "gave" an exclusive right to a agent but yet later agree privately with the BUYER as suggest in point 4. Violation right? Which therefore bound some restriction...

Edited April 4, 2011 by FD1976

[fabteo 0]

Hi people, came across this topic and decided to share my experience.

Together with my partner, we have been hunting flats for the past 8 months, as my sister is an agent, she would do the paper work for me as such I do not need a seller agent. That is when i realised that most of the ad placed in website like property Guru are infested with rogue and crook agents which really make the whole buying process sickening.

I discovered that most of the ad place by smaller unheard of agency etc. S.E.A (Singapore estate Agency), Hutton and some others had the most crooky agent, they would place an ad and when you call the number, most of the time it is their colleague who would answer and insist on representing you, when I mentioned i had an agent, they would give excuses not to let you view, one from SEA even lied that the unit is in the final stage of closing, but after 1 month, the unit is still in the market. Some of the above agency will not publish their name, just surname and some funny name which give me a sneaky feeling. (I would not trust them with my dog let alone a property transaction).

The above selling ethic are against CEA regulation as only exclusive seller agent can advertise.

We do come across some good and responsible agent, and most of the time they are from the bigger agency, so after 8 months of hunting, I have the following suggestion for flat hunters which want to save from paying buyer commission, (to me it is rubbish as I seriously believe that we do not need a buyer agent).

1) Keep looking, there are good agent with good listing around.

2) Use the newspaper, though there are some agency which operate as mentioned above, it is much much fewer as paper ad cost them money unlike website ad which they paid for a year.

3) Never deal with smaller unheard of agency, etc S.E.A, ECG, to a certain extend, Hutton.

4) ERA, Dennis Wee, Propnex and OT are few agency which most of the agent abide by the rules

Buying a flat is not rocket science, we do not really need a buyer agent, as for those who think that we need one in order to complete a transaction, pay the seller agent some coffee money for the paper done, most would gladly accept.

[snaem85 1]

hi all,

my fiancee has a friend who is selling her house which happens to be a unit that we like.

we are getting a friend who works an agent to only do only the paperwork for us.

for buyer (my fiancee friend), does she need to get another agent to do the paperwork, or can also ask my friend to help?

usually, how much "hangbao" we give for doing the paperwork? just curios.

thanks!

Edited May 23, 2011 by snaem85