A&a To Corner Terrace

[jastlp 0]

Hi, am new to this forum. Am in the process of selecting contractors ( shortlisted 2) and revising scope and cost for extending about 4.2m x 6m to the rear for a 3-sty corner terrace and converting the carporch into a open balcony. The intial quote was around $360K ++( including PE, submission but exclude finishes and lightings), and am now considering relocating existing double glazed windows instead of changing, and keeping most part of the boundary wall, to reduce cost.

Would welcome some advice on:-

1) Possibility of reducing cost to around $260K for this extend of work?

3) Any experience of variation orders during construction; ie. contractors request for more money due to some situation during construction etc. Need to keep budget in check.

4) If there is no architect, who inspects the work progress? Do you go down regularly etc?

Thanks in advance.

Edited February 16, 2011 by jastlp

[leechaorui 2]

1) Possibility of reducing cost to around $260K for this extend of work?

I do not know the extend of work. It is not uncommon for people to spend $400K to $600K on A&A. I know of someone who spent $900K on A&A too. Hence, $360K+ don't seem unreasonable. If you wish for forumers to give you more advice, you may want to detail the itemized works and costing.

2) Any reviews on these 2 contractors: Builders Point and Kim Sing?

Never heard of these 2 firms. There are many small time builders. Get to see some of their past works and talk to the owners for reference check before deciding.

3) Any experience of variation orders during construction; ie. contractors request for more money due to some situation during construction etc. Need to keep budget in check.

Quite common for VO during construction when you add additional power point, lighting point, want more taps, want higher class sanitaryware, or evern variation to the design, etc...

4) If there is no architect, who inspects the work progress? Do you go down regularly etc?

There should be an architect to sign off. In your case, did your contractor inform you that there is no architect?

[jastlp 0]

1) Possibility of reducing cost to around $260K for this extend of work?

I do not know the extend of work. It is not uncommon for people to spend $400K to $600K on A&A. I know of someone who spent $900K on A&A too. Hence, $360K+ don't seem unreasonable. If you wish for forumers to give you more advice, you may want to detail the itemized works and costing.

2)There are many small time builders. Get to see some of their past works and talk to the owners for reference check before deciding.

3) Any experience of variation orders during construction; ie. contractors request for more money due to some situation during construction etc. Need to keep budget in check.

Quite common for VO during construction when you add additional power point, lighting point, want more taps, want higher class sanitaryware, or evern variation to the design, etc...

4) If there is no architect, who inspects the work progress? Do you go down regularly etc?

There should be an architect to sign off. In your case, did your contractor inform you that there is no architect?

Thank you for your advice. Here are additional details.

1) Reducing the scope to:-

Extent 4.2m at the rear - shift kitchen and toilet back for bigger dining area.

Create an extra bedroom on 2nd and 3rd sty (parquet finish). (Existing 4 bedrooms, propose 6 bedrooms.)

Re-configuration of walls at the rear to the maid and store.

Relocating existing double glazed windows to the rear bedrooms to save cost. Other slide fold glass doors **** room and windows at front bedrooms will be normal aluminium single glaze.

Re-tiling to 1st storey.

Re-varnish existing parquet at bedrooms.

New timber decking infront.

Modify RC carporch to open balcony.

Autogate and front boundary wall and small part of side wall.

(All tiles, sanitary fittings, light fittings by us, owner...)

Wondering if the following quote is the norm:-

a) preliminaries ( precon survey, CCTV sewer, insurance, services detection, protection, signborad, scaffold) - $27,800

b) Clerk of work - $2500

c) PE including drawings and submission to URA & BCA - $20,000 ( As architect is not required for A&A, can omit off $5000); thus my enquiry on supervision if there is no architect.

d) Electrical works are not quoted but to set aside $15,000 and $3000 for lightning protection.

How is the payment to contractor done? Progressively upon their completion of certain works or by fortnightly ( irregardless of progress?). Do you impose liquidated damages, or retention fees if delay of work etc?

Feedbacks are welcome. Thanks.

Edited February 16, 2011 by jastlp

[watchthewaves 0]

The work at the back looks quite extensive, extending all 3 stories. Also, when you reposition rooms and walls, are supporting columns and beams may be affected? If so, more work is needed to re-cast supporting columns and beams, and remove the old ones.

One question that crossed my mind -- what about your roof? No work needed?

If you're going with an all-in-one "design & build" style of doing things, the PE fees seem a bit on the high side to me.

Since you already have specific details of what you need done, get recommendations from others who are happy with the work their builder did, and approach them for quotes. Then you have a basis for comparison as you'll know that they are quoting you for the same scope of works. Of course, watch out for possible areas which may not be equal, eg different provisional rates/sums quoted, different size/quality of timber.

[jastlp 0]

The work at the back looks quite extensive, extending all 3 stories. Also, when you reposition rooms and walls, are supporting columns and beams may be affected? If so, more work is needed to re-cast supporting columns and beams, and remove the old ones.

One question that crossed my mind -- what about your roof? No work needed?

If you're going with an all-in-one "design & build" style of doing things, the PE fees seem a bit on the high side to me.

Since you already have specific details of what you need done, get recommendations from others who are happy with the work their builder did, and approach them for quotes. Then you have a basis for comparison as you'll know that they are quoting you for the same scope of works. Of course, watch out for possible areas which may not be equal, eg different provisional rates/sums quoted, different size/quality of timber.

Thanks for the reply. Zooming in on one contractor. Anything to note and include in the agreement other than:-

1) construction schedule

2) payment schedule

3) drawings with annotation on intention and contractors quote as agreement ( to ensure most items included to avoid variation)

[eastcoast 0]

Hi jastlp,

We've just started reconstruction for our corner terrace. Just to share on the quote, our 'preliminaries' item is $15k, but this excludes demolition and site clearance works which cost another 7.2k. Unlike yours, our place is only 2-storey, we are doing front, back and side extension, but not additional storey.

You mentioned your RTO(clerk of works) quote is 2.5k, is piling required for your project? The quote we got is 2.8k, without piling. Mind sharing your contact with us? Thanks!

[jastlp 0]

Hi jastlp,

We've just started reconstruction for our corner terrace. Just to share on the quote, our 'preliminaries' item is $15k, but this excludes demolition and site clearance works which cost another 7.2k. Unlike yours, our place is only 2-storey, we are doing front, back and side extension, but not additional storey.

You mentioned your RTO(clerk of works) quote is 2.5k, is piling required for your project? The quote we got is 2.8k, without piling. Mind sharing your contact with us? Thanks!

Hi, the rto is in the quotation to be appointed by contractor, and we are still in the finalisation stage to confirm the contractor. So we don't know who the rto is....

Btw did any of you take a construction loan? Care to share the requirement?

the banker wants us not to start any work until bca approval. But we want the contractor to start with non structural work first. How do you get your loan?

[shawnsofie 0]

Hi, the rto is in the quotation to be appointed by contractor, and we are still in the finalisation stage to confirm the contractor. So we don't know who the rto is....

Btw did any of you take a construction loan? Care to share the requirement?

the banker wants us not to start any work until bca approval. But we want the contractor to start with non structural work first. How do you get your loan?

Const loan must be fm the same bank as ur housing loan. It would be wise to wait for bca approval and more importantly the insurance to be in place. Else who is going to be responsible if things messed up? U need bca approval for demolition. My builder took < 3 days to remove all the stuff excl demolition. So in the whole scheme of things, not a long process

[jastlp 0]

Const loan must be fm the same bank as ur housing loan. It would be wise to wait for bca approval and more importantly the insurance to be in place. Else who is going to be responsible if things messed up? U need bca approval for demolition. My builder took < 3 days to remove all the stuff excl demolition. So in the whole scheme of things, not a long process

Thanks! I am enquiring with the bank on whether the contractor can do site clearance work without touching structural elements, until approval is obtained.

Now I have a pressing question; after signing the contract/quotation 2 days ago, I recieved a mail from them to increase the PE fees from $15K(as quoted) to $18K stating that when the PE saw the drawings, their fees are higher due to 3 sty extension at the rear and front porch extension.

a) Is it reasonable to pay the additional $3K ( as the PE is a 3rd party) or

b) Should we stick to the agreed quotation; the contractor should have checked before quoting.

c) Should the overall quotation be fixed; ie.contractor should have done their due diligence in pricing for scope. We are now worried that they will start claiming for items they missed out in their quote but reflected in the drawings.

Appreciate feedbacks!

[kardtoon 0]

Thanks! I am enquiring with the bank on whether the contractor can do site clearance work without touching structural elements, until approval is obtained.

Now I have a pressing question; after signing the contract/quotation 2 days ago, I recieved a mail from them to increase the PE fees from $15K(as quoted) to $18K stating that when the PE saw the drawings, their fees are higher due to 3 sty extension at the rear and front porch extension.

a) Is it reasonable to pay the additional $3K ( as the PE is a 3rd party) or

b) Should we stick to the agreed quotation; the contractor should have checked before quoting.

c) Should the overall quotation be fixed; ie.contractor should have done their due diligence in pricing for scope. We are now worried that they will start claiming for items they missed out in their quote but reflected in the drawings.

Appreciate feedbacks!

Did you change anything to the drawings between when the contract is signed to when they asked for additional cost? If not, don't pay... they made a mistake and usually when I make a mistake at work, I suck it up! This will also set the tone for the whole project.

[shawnsofie 0]

Did you change anything to the drawings between when the contract is signed to when they asked for additional cost? If not, don't pay... they made a mistake and usually when I make a mistake at work, I suck it up! This will also set the tone for the whole project.

If you have been consistent in your instruction and its an oversight from the main con or PE, then they have to bear the costs. You tell them that their development profit margin is so good. What is 3K?

For example, my contractor didnt do a proper submission to URA and ended up a change in material (to a more expensive lightweight type) and I'm not bearing the cost.

[jastlp 0]

If you have been consistent in your instruction and its an oversight from the main con or PE, then they have to bear the costs. You tell them that their development profit margin is so good. What is 3K?

For example, my contractor didnt do a proper submission to URA and ended up a change in material (to a more expensive lightweight type) and I'm not bearing the cost.

Managed to find a cheaper PE which is lower than the contractor's original PE quote. The contractor is agreeable to omit out the PE for me to engage my own. My PE also adviced us to pay the RTO separately and not through the contractor to avoid possible disputes. So at lease this part of the issue solved.

[citygirl 1]

Managed to find a cheaper PE which is lower than the contractor's original PE quote. The contractor is agreeable to omit out the PE for me to engage my own. My PE also adviced us to pay the RTO separately and not through the contractor to avoid possible disputes. So at lease this part of the issue solved.

Hi jastlp, can share the PE's contact via PM? I am looking for a PE and QS as well, but the cheapest I have found so far is S$15K and S$9K respectively. And mine is for a 2.5 storey reconstruction of an inter-terrace house.