JCase 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 Rather than just putting him under pressure, it might be useful to discuss with him to try to understand his real reasons: could be that his tiler doesn't have the skill to do this, or no previous experience with this or simply doesn't understand clearly what is involved. No harm in trying to understand his issues IMO, if he is not competent you might be taking a risk to use your place as his first guinea pig trial. If he is just stalling to avoid complexity, then that is of course a different story... This is a issue of basic ability and competence. If don't know how to do then best just admit. I find it hard to believe that a tiler is unable to do this .... bread and butter stuff nowadays. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmgthatsme 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 or maybe he should at least offer to change to another tiler that is confident in the job. don't tell me he doesn't know a single sub-con/tiler in SG that can do drop down when so many pple on this island are doing it....... Different people have different approaches to reaching their objectives, I prefer a softer more persuasive approach to reach mine and only resorting to a harder line when other avenues have been exhausted. I believe that on a project you can have a more pleasant relationship with your team with this approach and enjoy the process rather than a confrontational method...YMMV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cleong 1 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 Well the thing is, you're in it with this contractor for the duration of this job, and you'll be living in the house long after he's gone. If you force the issue but he's not able to do it properly then you'll be the one that has to deal with the aftermath of an idea that has been poorly executed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marshmallow 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 Different people have different approaches to reaching their objectives, I prefer a softer more persuasive approach to reach mine and only resorting to a harder line when other avenues have been exhausted. I believe that on a project you can have a more pleasant relationship with your team with this approach and enjoy the process rather than a confrontational method...YMMV yup surely... when we manage contractors at work, also need to know when to hold tight, when to let go and compromise... but i think the issue we have here is that the contractor is requested to do a common job that everyone else is doing, but he claims that it cannot be done/difficult to be done. and the reason keeps changing from HDB not allow to drain water difficult to difficult to make......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
csingeu 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 from what you wrote, i also got the impression that he is just giving excuses... hmmmm probably just hope that you are the ignorant type (that dun understand what he talks about) or the chin-chye type (that dun bother to argue with him), so he doesn't need to do whatever needful you gotta be firmed with what you want... and not like only today then he knows that you wanna do drop down rite~! cannot let him makan like that... yes... i think he's just giving excuses. at first, he said, HDB double standards... his company got 2 units... need to re-do the flooring coz of the 50mm limit. and he wants me to get HDB approval. He thinks, i'll think it's a hassle and drop the case. BUT i went to HDB website, and the guidelines clearly stated otherwise. Then he argued that, but HDB sometimes, they don't care they'll still catch; he said he has to go and re-do them. When I mentioned the specific guidelines on HDB website, and the use of the EPF materials (which he definitely knows, coz i've seen that material at my place this morning), then he said... usually cannot use one... only for units for elderly persons who need to use ramp... and still give me other excuses, like he will be very difficult to do water-running, etc. And he mentioned, that if i really want, he can definitely do for me, but he wants HDB approval in black & white; if not, later his company "kena" again... I was like... already checked HDB guidelines, there's no need to apply for renovation permit for this works, as long as he follows the guidelines. no choice; have to shoot email to HDB officer and cc him in it. he tried to "scare" me by saying, the more questions i ask, the more HDB officer will come check... even better if they come check... at least, i know they're doing it properly and not taking short-cut... Don't wait liao... Just send him a sms that u want the drop and if no drop, he will redo the flooring at no additional cost. It's better to state it down black and white. Have to act fast since he is going at a fast speed... He might now say: 'aiyah...now want to do also cannot do already cos my tiler already doing the flooring halfway...' Don't pek chek okie? It's part & parcel of life that we will encounter some funny characters along the way. No good for your health.. Just 'counter attack' when it comes... I already told him not to proceed with the floor tiling. I'll need to discuss with him this sat on how to proceed. waiting for HDB officer's reply now... and now i have to go read the technical drawing to understand how the **** the water running issue, etc can be achieved. Rather than just putting him under pressure, it might be useful to discuss with him to try to understand his real reasons: could be that his tiler doesn't have the skill to do this, or no previous experience with this or simply doesn't understand clearly what is involved. No harm in trying to understand his issues IMO, if he is not competent you might be taking a risk to use your place as his first guinea pig trial. If he is just stalling to avoid complexity, then that is of course a different story... Not putting him under pressure, but so far, all the other homeowners (who did their renovation) recently... everyone managed to do it lor... and their contractors don't need to apply for permit also... coz it's not required. and precisely, because he tries to dissuade me from doing it, by citing irrelevant examples and cases... which I believe a skiller tiler would be able to do (coz my uncle is a tiler, and he also says can do one)... so my only conclusion is that: 1. his tilers are CMI one... 2. he doesn't want to go thru the extra effort... if he CMI, i'll talk to him to remove the tiling work from the contract, and to proceed with the carpentry works only... and get my uncle to do the tiling instead. TMD... or maybe he should at least offer to change to another tiler that is confident in the job. don't tell me he doesn't know a single sub-con/tiler in SG that can do drop down when so many pple on this island are doing it....... yes... if he cannot, I'll tell him to use my uncle's workers as the tilers instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
csingeu 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 This is a issue of basic ability and competence. If don't know how to do then best just admit. I find it hard to believe that a tiler is unable to do this .... bread and butter stuff nowadays. Yes... i also think it's unbelievable that this work cannot be done, when almost 9 out of 10 homeowners I've asked are doing it this way... and my contractor can tell me, it's because they are doing it illegally... *FAINT* and he says HDB very strict on this one, will come and check... if that's the case, I suppose a lot of contractors and homeowners would have gotten into trouble le... Different people have different approaches to reaching their objectives, I prefer a softer more persuasive approach to reach mine and only resorting to a harder line when other avenues have been exhausted. I believe that on a project you can have a more pleasant relationship with your team with this approach and enjoy the process rather than a confrontational method...YMMV I tried to put it across to him, that I want it to be done and I know it can be done... instead of being honest with me, why it cannot be done or maybe his tilers lack the skill... or even if it requires some top-up, i'll be negotiable.. but he chose to not tell the whole story... and wants to refer me to HDB... and in hope that I'll drop the idea, when required to contact HDB... but too bad... i'm in govt service also... and HDB is my sister agency... if need be, i'll seek clarification, and if it is illegal to do so, or totally impossible to be done, i'll take the words from the Authority, and not him... Well the thing is, you're in it with this contractor for the duration of this job, and you'll be living in the house long after he's gone. If you force the issue but he's not able to do it properly then you'll be the one that has to deal with the aftermath of an idea that has been poorly executed. I hired him as a professional contractor and I trust that he will, in his professional capacity, seek to address my concerns and find solutions to perform the tasks I need him to do. If it's clearly un-doable (i.e. technically or legally impossible), then I'll give in, else I would expect him to perform his duties (which is to check with HDB, etc) yup surely... when we manage contractors at work, also need to know when to hold tight, when to let go and compromise... but i think the issue we have here is that the contractor is requested to do a common job that everyone else is doing, but he claims that it cannot be done/difficult to be done. and the reason keeps changing from HDB not allow to drain water difficult to difficult to make......... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mae29 2 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) So the "drop" between the shower area and the rest of the bathroom is 50mm? he kept giving me excuses like... 1. water draining from floor trap in shower area might be difficult 2. the shower screen will have "lobang", so the floor tiles would be laid in such a way, the water running for the rest of the bathrooms will have problems I told him not to start work on the bathroom shower area... i'll go down to his office this weekend to discuss... *puke blood* lor... if he just follows my instructions and do it... won't even need to alert HDB officer... if it's my uncle, i think he will just do it... and since he's the tiler... he would know how to do it properly... as in do the "drop" and still achieve the water running... *puke blood* anyway, below, the level 2 bathrooms is my own kitchen la... as long as they do properly, shouldn't have any water leaking issue or wat lor... zzz one leh... I just took a measuring tape to take the readings: - drop at shower tray area is 30mm, because the whole floor there is gradient slope for water to flow towards the shower area. Even at the shower screen area, quite amaze that water can flow outwards to the shower tray, and no water ponding issue at all. I can see from the sliding door bottom track the slope is obvious. Edited April 6, 2011 by mae29 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
May_dream1 14 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 Yes... i also think it's unbelievable that this work cannot be done, when almost 9 out of 10 homeowners I've asked are doing it this way... and my contractor can tell me, it's because they are doing it illegally... *FAINT* and he says HDB very strict on this one, will come and check... if that's the case, I suppose a lot of contractors and homeowners would have gotten into trouble le... I tried to put it across to him, that I want it to be done and I know it can be done... instead of being honest with me, why it cannot be done or maybe his tilers lack the skill... or even if it requires some top-up, i'll be negotiable.. but he chose to not tell the whole story... and wants to refer me to HDB... and in hope that I'll drop the idea, when required to contact HDB... but too bad... i'm in govt service also... and HDB is my sister agency... if need be, i'll seek clarification, and if it is illegal to do so, or totally impossible to be done, i'll take the words from the Authority, and not him... I hired him as a professional contractor and I trust that he will, in his professional capacity, seek to address my concerns and find solutions to perform the tasks I need him to do. If it's clearly un-doable (i.e. technically or legally impossible), then I'll give in, else I would expect him to perform his duties (which is to check with HDB, etc) aiyoh.... just 3 days into your reno already so many problems? Shower drop is a very simple thing leh.... like that also have to to ding dong here and there?? cool down, ok? your reno only started, still got abt 6-7 weeks to go loh.... go talk to the tiler directly?? For mine, i went to talk to the tiler directly cos my contractor was busy so happens that i was there then the tiler asked me how i want to do the drop. Then everything was done better than i expected..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marshmallow 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 (edited) anyway bro, just do whatever you can with HDB. when you meet the contractor this weekend, just remember don't talk to him like going on a war.. try to talk in friend-friend manner and see if he softens his stance. he might have some concerns that need to be addressed. if he really can't do, maybe must ask your uncle to help liao.... though we all wonder why such common work can't be done~ jia you~ hope that things will go smoothly after this~ Edited April 6, 2011 by marshmallow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
csingeu 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 I just took a measuring tape to take the readings: - drop at shower tray area is 30mm, because the whole floor there is gradient slope for water to flow towards the shower area. Even at the shower screen area, quite amaze that water can flow outwards to the shower tray, and no water ponding issue at all. I can see from the sliding door bottom track the slope is obvious. thanks Linda for the info. I'll take my measuring tape over tmr morning to measure... so that I can have some ways to discuss with the contractor on sat... i've been studying the technical drawings today... aiyoh.... just 3 days into your reno already so many problems? Shower drop is a very simple thing leh.... like that also have to to ding dong here and there?? cool down, ok? your reno only started, still got abt 6-7 weeks to go loh.... go talk to the tiler directly?? For mine, i went to talk to the tiler directly cos my contractor was busy so happens that i was there then the tiler asked me how i want to do the drop. Then everything was done better than i expected..... sigh... suan le... must learn the art of "closing 1 eye"... if not, i think my life will shorten very fast... anyway bro, just do whatever you can with HDB. when you meet the contractor this weekend, just remember don't talk to him like going on a war.. try to talk in friend-friend manner and see if he softens his stance. he might have some concerns that need to be addressed. if he really can't do, maybe must ask your uncle to help liao.... though we all wonder why such common work can't be done~ yah... will talk to him abt the real reason la... if need to top up money and not a lot, i'll top up la... if because his workers no skill, then i'll see if can take out this item, and get my uncle to help do... if hdb dun approve, i'll just live with kerb lor... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
csingeu 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 Anyway, I was looking thru some of the past pics, I've researched on... think some of them also doing kerb... i showed my wife... she got no comments... she's not picky abt such stuffs.... i'm the anal one... bleahz... Think I can live with it la... if in the end, going to do shower kerb (so as to avoid further arguments or unhappiness with contractor... and looking back at some of the pics... I think I really like this kind of bathroom... why didn't I refer to this earlier?!?!? forget it le... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marshmallow 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 thanks Linda for the info. I'll take my measuring tape over tmr morning to measure... so that I can have some ways to discuss with the contractor on sat... i've been studying the technical drawings today... sigh... suan le... must learn the art of "closing 1 eye"... if not, i think my life will shorten very fast... yah... will talk to him abt the real reason la... if need to top up money and not a lot, i'll top up la... if because his workers no skill, then i'll see if can take out this item, and get my uncle to help do... if hdb dun approve, i'll just live with kerb lor... if HDB dun approve, better don't do esp when you are part of the "gahmen" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
May_dream1 14 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 Anyway, I was looking thru some of the past pics, I've researched on... think some of them also doing kerb... i showed my wife... she got no comments... she's not picky abt such stuffs.... i'm the anal one... bleahz... Think I can live with it la... if in the end, going to do shower kerb (so as to avoid further arguments or unhappiness with contractor... and looking back at some of the pics... I think I really like this kind of bathroom... why didn't I refer to this earlier?!?!? forget it le... the one you like above really very pretty..... ask your contractor can do or not. if cannot, then try your best lah. like you said earlier, close one eye for some of the stuff lah. there are more things to worry about leh.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
csingeu 0 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 if HDB dun approve, better don't do esp when you are part of the "gahmen" yes... if HDB dun approve, i won't do illegal stuff one... don't want to get into unnecessary trouble... i might not even pursue the shower "drop" thing... feeling really tired abt all these... but will give it one last try this sat, to find out what's the real issue... the one you like above really very pretty..... ask your contractor can do or not. if cannot, then try your best lah. like you said earlier, close one eye for some of the stuff lah. there are more things to worry about leh.... YAH... why didn't we choose the similar tiles...? sigh... nvm... it's plain... but it looks really gd... must be the lighting, the shower area and the potted plant. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
May_dream1 14 Report post Posted April 6, 2011 yes... if HDB dun approve, i won't do illegal stuff one... don't want to get into unnecessary trouble... i might not even pursue the shower "drop" thing... feeling really tired abt all these... but will give it one last try this sat, to find out what's the real issue... YAH... why didn't we choose the similar tiles...? sigh... nvm... it's plain... but it looks really gd... must be the lighting, the shower area and the potted plant. some things, simple also very good and nice!!! i am sure what you chosen is also nice lah..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
