csingeu 0 Report post Posted January 12, 2011 My hectic schedule has begun. Before I share on the topic for tonight, let me "grumble" a little about my non-renov stuff. As some may know, I'm currently working full-time, as an IT professional, and concurrently doing a part-time Master in Software Engineering. I'm coming to my last semester (my course is abt 2.5 to 3 yrs for part-time) and kind of feeling burnt-out and losing steam. And this last stretch is made more challenging, with resale flat purchase end-2010 and handover in 19 days' time and hunting for ID/contractor and furniture. Not to mention ongoing projects at work and my ROM in end-Feb. A random note: I'm currently taking the following modules and I realize that quite a few of the classes are actually taught by adjunct professors who have full-time job as CIO of some companies. I wonder what's their motivation for teaching, coz I believe as a CIO, they prob have quite a lot of responsibility, prob married with kids, and earning quite a bit => Very stressful work and very little free time; would prob want to spend free time with family instead; already earning too much to care abt whatever reimbursement they are getting from the schools. "Information Security Policies" class is taught by CIO of MDA "Integration of IS & Biz" class is taught by CIO of Starhub "Software Entrepreneurship" taught by a very senior and experienced lecturer who used to be working in IT field for defense and healthcare industry in UK. With such a hectic schedule, I really hope to find a responsible and trustworthy ID/contractor to help manage the renov process for me, and at the same time, is also affordable to hire (my budget is already stretched). And this leads me to the topic for tonight.... My view of IDs/contractor and comments about some of the few whom I've interacted with (Part 1) I've initially wanted to reserve my comments, until I have confirmed my ID/contractor, but with so many things going on (and the fact that I've started hunting sometimes back in Nov 2010), a lot of details are fading, and I want to document my "encounters" before I forget everything. No offense to anyone (IDs, contractors, etc). The following are my personal opinions from my observation and interactions with some of the IDs/contractors. Feel free to disagree, and i will not argue with you, coz it's personal opinions (which might be misguided), so take it with a pinch of salt. you have been told. I know some of the IDs may be watching this forum too, but really, no hard feelings. Just as I have my opinions abt you and I'm sure you have your opinions abt me as a prospective client (maybe i was wasting your time fishing for quotation when my requirements are too stringent and budget/schedule unrealistic...) ID or Contractor or Coordinator? What is the difference? 1. Contractor Just the title already gives people the perception that he's not very design-savvy and maybe more like a supervisor/foreman kind. I think during my parents' era, there's prob just contractors; IDs are probably left for the atas landed home owners and commercial/retail/office building owners. Very few of this category left (or maybe I'm wrong) 2. Coordinator First time heard about this, from cleong. Apparently, it's someone who helps to coordinate the subcontractors for door/windows, electrical, aircon, tiling, etc... but not providing design input. Sounds like a main contractor eh? No? I also don't know. 3. ID This is the interesting breed. personally, I'm not design-trained, so I have no idea what exactly an ID does or value-adds in, except maybe: 1. space planning 2. color scheme coordination 3. balancing design and practicality 4. accessorizing 5. lighting scheme For me, I think a person claiming to be a ID has more creditability, if he/she has taken formal training, either at diploma or degree level in architecture or interior design. Having said that, I'm sure most would also agree that not all who have formal training are gd at ID; in fact, maybe some contractors or those without formal training may do better, due to yrs of experience. Nevertheless, as some may have already mentioned, the industry is pretty much an unregulated one, hence anyone can call themselves a ID or designer. And they usually charge 10-20% more than contractors (which I believe, the contractors prob already marked up their quotation for some profits). Which leads to a few observations: 1. Traditional contractors calling themselves IDs so that they appear more "design-savvy" and appeal to the younger crowd and able to charge a higher premium. 2. Young chaps who have some eye for design, and after reading much ID books, magazines, websites (and thru sheer self-study) believe that they are then IDs; but may not have the practical experience to manage a renov project or execute the design concept well 3. And most IDs who have pride in their profession and work will charge design fees for their expertise in space planning. etc. no doubts. - but for me, i have limited budget and want to minimize hacking to save cost, hence space planning is not really required, as I'm likely to stick to what I've already had in mind and it's just minimal hacking and more of placement of furniture, and no fancy feature wall or carpentry required. - hence the project may be deemed "boring" or "non-challenging" for them, as there won't be a great transformation at the end of it - might be my fault too; as I've told them that the place is for a newly-wedded couple; hence their space planning usually involve major hacking of bedrooms to combine into a huge MBR with attached study, WIW (which I already mentioned I did not want), etc. - sometimes, I wonder if they assume that we will actually be upgrading to another property with more rooms or space, when we intend to have kids, or they think we are yuppies, and never going to have kids... - for the same reason, i'm not inclined to pay "designer fees". And they have pride in their work that they won't "recycle" design and will design to suit individual client's unique requirements. - but sometimes, I really like what I've seen on what other IDs' works and just want to "replicate" the same result, without having to go thru the whole design thinking process 4. And they may sometimes, subtly or subconsciously or consciously influence you to their style of design and preferences - eg. i prefer modern resort theme (woody and stuff), but ID actually prefers raw industrial look, and his/her suggestions tend towards cement screed, concrete slab, etc 5. sometimes, they assume they know everything and design based on their assumptions and did not seek clarifications - or at least, i find the thinking process behind the design concept "strange" - eg. one of the IDs actually suggested that I put my hood and hob infront of the kitchen window. - I was stunned. I've grown up in a household, without a balcony and laundry is hung out of the kitchen window on bamboo poles to sun-dry. with the stove and hood in front of the window, how the xxxx do I hang my clothes out? - pausing and thinking thru, I suppose he/she might have made the following assumptions: - I will be using a dryer (which I've already informed that there will be no dryer) - I will be hanging my clothes at the balcony (which I don't intend to, as i intend to keep it a cosy but outdoor area; but she didn't clarify) - I will just be hanging up inside the kitchen to air-dry - giving her the benefit of the doubt, I also assumed that maybe most of her past clients either stayed in condo (whereby hanging clothes out is no-no, or there is service yard available), or stayed in landed properties whereby they have a big front/back yard to dry their laundry, or simply have no qualms air-drying or using a dryer. 6. sometimes, they forget or ignore requirements - eg. I specifically mentioned that I would like to convert the level 1 wash area into a WC, but some, in their design proposal, actually suggested for me to remove the wash area and have a bigger kitchen. - eg. I mentioned that I would like to have my MBR in a certain layout so that me & WTB can both watch TV, if she chooses to lie in bed and read book and watch tv, while I'm sitting at the study table, using my laptop and watching tv... - but ended up, they proposed something else, maybe due to the fact that, becoz of FS, most people would not place their bed in the centre of the room like my preferred layout and would suggest to place the bed against a solid wall instead. - if i mind the FS part, i wouldn't have even show him/her my preferred layout that way. Conclusion I think i'll be better off hiring an experienced contractor who can give practical advice and some design inputs - since "space planning" will be done by myself - budget is stretched - ID or contractor, they also ask you to choose the tiles, colours yourself - i need advice on lighting scheme, electrical and plumbing issues - someone to manage the renov process and coordinate the subcontractors Getting late... I'm tired. Will continue with part 2 tomorrow, which include my evaluation of my interaction with the various IDs/contractors i've contacted. hopefully, i can confirm someone within the next 1-2 week, but think CNY coming, they prob too busy to be bothered with me. ohh well... better start late, than to rush and live a lifetime (or a long time) of regrets... (though starting late, not necessarily mean worry-free too) ... sigh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marshmallow 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2011 Agreed. Depending on how the fan is mounted; might not block too much la. Coz usually it will be mounted on an acrylic panel or so, but the panel likely to be fixed in position. If the fan is mounted (like what I saw in my school toilet) on plywood or so, then likely will block out the natural light. hmmm on No.3 of the KDK FAQ you posted, think they said cannot use the acrylic board installation method on HDB? Must cut on the glass window itself i think. hmmmm. One of the IDs informed me, top hung windows must be wire-mesh type (safety + HDB ruling), but he said if don't want to use wire-mesh, there's another choice, which is to use the kind of glass panel with a "sticky" film in the middle of it. so in the event that something smashes on the window pane, the "sticky" film will "stick" the pieces together, and it will not shattered into bits. from what i heard, the reason behind the use of wire-mesh glass is to prevent the glass from shattering into small bits *if* it breaks. haven't heard about the sticky film thing, but sounds like it performs the same function... maybe it's better to ask windows contractor directly cos they are more updated with HDB rules (which are revised quite frequently ) just btw, off topic... with reference to an earlier post... 2lf = 2 left feet? think i learned the beginner course from their instructor before.... hahaha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
May_dream1 14 Report post Posted January 13, 2011 hmmm on No.3 of the KDK FAQ you posted, think they said cannot use the acrylic board installation method on HDB? Must cut on the glass window itself i think. hmmmm. from what i heard, the reason behind the use of wire-mesh glass is to prevent the glass from shattering into small bits *if* it breaks. haven't heard about the sticky film thing, but sounds like it performs the same function... maybe it's better to ask windows contractor directly cos they are more updated with HDB rules (which are revised quite frequently ) just btw, off topic... with reference to an earlier post... 2lf = 2 left feet? think i learned the beginner course from their instructor before.... hahaha oh, i am not being informed that the windows need to have wire-mesh. hhmmm..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marshmallow 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2011 oh, i am not being informed that the windows need to have wire-mesh. hhmmm..... oh, this requirement is for the top hung toilet windows. i *think* no such requirement for lourve ones (i can't remember exactly - better check with window vendors). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickoveron 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2011 Toh Guan is quite a gd place too. Nearer to Jurong East. With the upcoming Jurong Lake District development, JE may become more happening within the next 5 yrs (hopefully). How much was your renovation? Any pics to share? Hey there, i haven't summed up the total bill but the i think it's in the 85-95k ballpark including all furniture and appliances. I basically tore down pretty much of everything (my contractor said i was mad considering i paid the cov based on what was to be inherited). oh well.... i didnt take much pictures at all, if any they are still sitting on my iphone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
csingeu 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2011 2lf = 2 left feet? think i learned the beginner course from their instructor before.... hahaha LOL... i used to teach part-time there for a while, before i started my part-time studies... we might have met b4... or i might have taught u b4. LOL... unless, both instructors are female la... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
january 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2011 I read your post about IDs and contractors and I must say that you hit the nail on many of the issues. I can't stress the importance of a proper ID though. Think of an ID like an analyst... you have these issues and requirements, and they have to advise you of the best way to address the issues and fulfill all if not most of the requirements. Most IDs have a certain aesthetic sense, but sometimes forget to look after function (you need to remind them). The really good ones will think of everything for you (including how to organise your storage), but these are hard to come by. Contractors, as far as I know, will just do as they are told and won't give you feedback on whether something is too big or too small for your space. Also, mine doesn't do any quality control. All the QC is left to me. Which is BS. And really tiring as well. If you're gonna be busy, you better find someone who can do the QC and rectification work. Actually, the most important thing is to find somebody responsible. You can always come to us for design input Anyway, I wish you all the best in this scary world of renovation. May you have a good experience in your reno! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
csingeu 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2011 Hey there, i haven't summed up the total bill but the i think it's in the 85-95k ballpark including all furniture and appliances. I basically tore down pretty much of everything (my contractor said i was mad considering i paid the cov based on what was to be inherited). oh well.... i didnt take much pictures at all, if any they are still sitting on my iphone. I'm expecting mine to be ard 80-85K incl furniture and appliances too... or maybe i'm underestimating... how much COV you paid? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickoveron 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2011 I'm expecting mine to be ard 80-85K incl furniture and appliances too... or maybe i'm underestimating... how much COV you paid? mine's 25k COV, which i thought was high in late 2009. till the news came out that pple were paying much higher COVs for areas less ideal, and flats much older. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marshmallow 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2011 LOL... i used to teach part-time there for a while, before i started my part-time studies... we might have met b4... or i might have taught u b4. LOL... unless, both instructors are female la... nope... my instructor is female, so it can't be you after finally seeing you in person, i kinda understand why pple call you the looking guy... LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marshmallow 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2011 mine's 25k COV, which i thought was high in late 2009. till the news came out that pple were paying much higher COVs for areas less ideal, and flats much older. 25k is quite okie liao... when i went for flat viewing around Toh Guan, all asking more than 40k just becos they are newer and considered closer to MRT~ (okie i was only looking at blks 284-288) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickoveron 0 Report post Posted January 17, 2011 25k is quite okie liao... when i went for flat viewing around Toh Guan, all asking more than 40k just becos they are newer and considered closer to MRT~ (okie i was only looking at blks 284-288) Incidentally mine's one of the blocks u viewed.... 285-288. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soichiro 0 Report post Posted January 19, 2011 Congrats on your EM! I am renovating my 5M (mansionette, almost exactly the same layout as yours, but slightly smaller) right now, at almost the same price same age as yours too. lol. But mine is near Paya Lebar MRT. Noted that you wanted to do collapsible doors for your balcony. Thats what I wanted initially, but it was too windy and given the size of the doors, found that it is dangerous to have collapsible ones, fingers can get caught if the doors get slammed by the wind. Also, you need heavy duty doors (I got quotes of $4K-$5K for 4.4m width) so that it won't make noises with strong winds. Assuming your unit is windy at level 10 la. Was there a toilet in your wash area before? Given that you are only the 2nd owner, quite a low chance to have a toilet there. To construct a WC, you need to go inside and ensure there is enough leg space for the WC and sink. Usually, that area has thick waste pipes also and not in floor plan. You need to take that in consideration when planning the space. I had a big headache for mine, and changed the door location at the last minute to make things work. Haven't gone thru your thread fully yet, but I think we'll have a lot in common. Will look out here again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
csingeu 0 Report post Posted January 19, 2011 I read your post about IDs and contractors and I must say that you hit the nail on many of the issues. I can't stress the importance of a proper ID though. Think of an ID like an analyst... you have these issues and requirements, and they have to advise you of the best way to address the issues and fulfill all if not most of the requirements. Most IDs have a certain aesthetic sense, but sometimes forget to look after function (you need to remind them). The really good ones will think of everything for you (including how to organise your storage), but these are hard to come by. Contractors, as far as I know, will just do as they are told and won't give you feedback on whether something is too big or too small for your space. Also, mine doesn't do any quality control. All the QC is left to me. Which is BS. And really tiring as well. If you're gonna be busy, you better find someone who can do the QC and rectification work. Actually, the most important thing is to find somebody responsible. You can always come to us for design input Anyway, I wish you all the best in this scary world of renovation. May you have a good experience in your reno! Thanks! Really tied between getting contractor or ID. Think it's hard to both save money and time. The only way to save money is either to do less (can't avoid, if it's essential items), use lower quality (totally not acceptable), or coordinate various subcons yourself, thereby removing the middleman costs. The only way to save time is to find someone who can help manage and monitor the renov progress, QC works and rectify defects; and this usually means more money. And like what you've mentioned, most impt is to find somebody who's responsible and responsive. Seriously, don't think i need a ID (for design ideas), but more like experienced contractor for practical advices. I feel no amt of research can guarantee that you have a stress-free and smooth renovation process. sometimes, it's really a combination of multiple factors (original condition of unit, material suppliers, workers, contractor, etc). Maybe when i'm getting tired of doing all these research (which is quite unlikely... it's tiring... but i guess most first-time homeowner would still go thru the "pain" or "joy")... i'll just resign my fate to choosing one of the IDs/contractors... and pray for the best... LOL... I suppose different people have different ways of shortlisting IDs/contractors; some pick lowest quote, some pick best design, some pick ability to communicate with ID, some pick the popular ones renotalk recommends some have very comprehensive decision matrix to evaluate each aspect of engagement... I'm likely to take a 2-step selection process. As I'm budget-stretched, i'll do the following: 1. Pick 3 lowest, most comprehensive and complete quotations (w/o GST) 2. Out of the 3, meet up with them for final revised quotations, and interact to see if ok with their attitude, service, communication style 3. Pick the 1 I'm most comfortable talking to and with gd service attitude and able to offer practical advice Let's see how it goes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
May_dream1 14 Report post Posted January 19, 2011 Don't sound so pessimistic Not until the end, you will never know whether you will get a good contractor/ID and wonderful renovation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
