Need Help Badly

[watchthewaves 0]

Yes, best thing you should do now is check with your lawyer asap.

[bepgof 20]

Thanks for all the suggestion you provided, my understanding is that he already agreed the Price and then he regreted , he intended to get some more from us, so he does not wanna transfer the deposit to us which the tenant alsready paid to him 1 year before, in between ,we have not sign on the OTP and what i am worrying is after 14 days this issue has not settle , my 1% will be forfeited. my agent is lack of experiences , she does not know this kind of things, so do you guys suggest me to meet my laywer?

thnak you!

I see no big deal in the "deleted & re-write caluse". The "new" clause which in jeopardise with the TA's terms & conditions, has no legal forcible capacity.

The "security deposit" which is lawful belongs to the tenant(who is now staying in the property that you are buying). Seller is trying to "eat" the security deposit which was paid to him year ago and expressly wanted buyer to come out from buyer's own pocket to "return" the said security deposit to tenant when TA expires. Seller is making a sweet dream at his own.

Buying a property in tenancy meaning that buyer buys over all the terms & conditions stated in the TA (seller needs to pass an effective TA buyer). There is/are no other documents to add/delete ANY term in TA which is in force, these documents carry no legal force. Yr agent, at this point of time should have a "mentor" and know some lawyers, ask them to confirm this.

Another thing. when property exchanges hand "in tenancy", seller can only vacant his personal belongings. He cannot remove even a chair when he moves out.

Edited November 17, 2010 by bepgof

[Maverick78 0]

I'm surprised your agent made such a basic mistake.

1. The 1% should not had been divided into 2 portions.

2. Any amendments on the OTP must be counter signed by both parties.

Though the amendments will not be legally binding as there are no signatures, there may be repercussions in terms of claims and counter claims by both parties, especially if your OTP is more than 1 page and the amendment is not on the same page as the seller's signature on the dotted line.

The most important thing now is quickly seek legal advise.

Just my 2c worth of personal opinions..

Hope the above helps..

Hi all:

I am buying a private with tenancy, we had make the 1% deposit and today we received the OPT from the owner, but he changed the terms and clauses which indicated as "The seller shall transffer the tenant 's security deposits to purchasser" , he deleted the para and write "the purchaser shall refund the securit deposits to the tenant when the teancy is expired" by himself, in this case if we refused to excerise the option can we get back our 1% deposit ? or any other action we can take against it? I appreciate that you spent your time to read my case and thank you in advance if you can provide me some advice.

[bepgof 20]

Hello 40826084, just to elaborate further: exactly property exchange hand in tenancy is complicated(I kena in my 1st property sale)

- Bear this in mind that any TA signed before completion will be between the existing tenant and the pre-completion owner(important). You simply take over the tenancy upon completion. This means you are lawfully to follow the T&C set out in the TA (though not signed by you)once you become the landlord to the property(Upon completion date).

- So, it is wise to work out and know:

A. When TA expires

B. Estimated time of completion (abt 12wk from otp signed to collect key).

C. Estimate the "remaining" TA period.

D. There is a column in the OTP to put in the completion date. You may consider to put in the date just right after TA expires.

- Be wary that seller might sign another TA (may be to your disadvantage) before completion.

Singapore's common law protects tenant vs landlord, also protect buyer vs seller.

Yr agent receives no comm from you but from seller's agent, so you agent will likely to "act blur" or somehow or rather "pairup" with seller's agent to get the transaction through asap. Take note of the above important points which I've highlighted.

In 2007, I sold my hdb 5rm which was whole-subletting out. Between completion & TA expiry was abt 1.5 months. I collected the one-month rental and split the 0.5 to seller and seller collected the remaining one month from tenant. I returned 3 months deposit to seller who returened this to tenant after TA expired( I called up tenant, after they moved out). However, I could not remove away even a single chair from the house (before completion)(only really some personal stuff = tenant not in use). Remember this.

Edited November 18, 2010 by bepgof

[leechaorui 2]

Hi 40826084,

If you really like the place very much, make arrangement to meet up with the owner to resolve this. At most you bite the bullet and move on.

No need to have more nightmares and spend money on legal fees of which lawyers will likely to tell you lots of pros and cons, making you more confuse than certain on what action to take.

Life is a lot of give and take. When the unit appreciates in value, you will find that the extra you paid is only a very small sum of money.

Just my alternative view.

Cheers!

Edited November 19, 2010 by leechaorui

[40826084 0]

Hi all when I read all your kinda suggestion really feel touch.... thanks for all the great advices from you all. really appreciate....

My problem is solved , and let me explain more detail on it:

1. I do not have my agent, the agent is seller's agent and i found her adv from website, and she is very very new to this industry, she did not tell me the security deposit that seller is not going to return to me and she simply ask someone else and they told her not to to return deposit is a coommon practice for property selling with tenacy (and she believed it) so she hand over my 1% to seller then comes with the OTP with amendments

2. when i find out what happened actually , i feel its not fair to me. and after a discussion with the agent, she agreed to bear half of the deposit and she admits is her fault , then i took the Advice from Everton split the potential loss and we take 1 month deposit with agent and agreed with the amendments in the OTP and we are going to proceed with it (actually we quite like the property and our intention is still to acquire it).

And i do not know what might hgappen again , but so far i think this is the best solution for me, and most importantly i still need your suggestions regard to this.

To bepgof:

Thanks for the experience shared with me for sell with Tenacy, the tency agreement is going to expired on end of Jun 2011, and our completion date estimated on end of Feb 2011, so after we take over we still have 4 month tenancy with us, but my question is how can i prevent the seller sign another tenancy agreement prior to the completion and what is my disadvantage and his advantage for doing so ? should i put this in the OTP? thank you and your suggestion is important to us.

In additon, seller also added 1 cluse in the OTP is that " the purchaser agreed that the seller to remove all the itmes indicated in the inventory list when the tenancy is expired" (our inventory list indicated what are the items seller going to remove but did not put the things they are not going to remove) is there any disadvantage on this ? Please advice

ur advices are really important to me , thank you !

[therat 18]

In additon, seller also added 1 cluse in the OTP is that " the purchaser agreed that the seller to remove all the itmes indicated in the inventory list when the tenancy is expired" (our inventory list indicated what are the items seller going to remove but did not put the things they are not going to remove) is there any disadvantage on this ? Please advice

The seller only can remove those listed in the inventory list.

Those not stated in the inventory lost, seller cannot touch.

Just ask urself, do you need those item or not.

If not, it might be a good things for them to discard those item. Save ur energy.

But make sure, they don't damage things that you want to keep.

Seller agent always keep information.

When I purchase a property with tenancy. The agent told us the TA is 2 yrs. we still have 1 yr +.

After completion, read the TA, realize it is 1+1. Mean the tenant can discontinue the rental after 1 yrs if they want.

Then I spot that the EP from the tenant is going to due. I ask for new EP pass as proof.

Agent try to buy time. Later receive an additional doc realize the tenant exactly has relocate to other country.

She found another ppl to cover her balance TA contract. So that's fine for us.

As long as we receive the $$ every mth can liao.

few points to note

1. Ask for a photocopy TA and read those term

2. Get a lawyer you trust.

3. DIE DIE Make sure the person that you talk to. Is a lawyer. Not those business manager or simi tong tong.

Make sure his name card title is LAWYER.

A good and responsible lawyer save your day

A non-responsible lawyer make you angry and screw up your purchase

[40826084 0]

Thank therat for the kinda sharing , do I need a withness signature for the inventory list or as long as there is seller 's singnatures will do ?

[therat 18]

Thank therat for the kinda sharing , do I need a withness signature for the inventory list or as long as there is seller 's singnatures will do ?

get a witness , seller and buyer.

You need to agree on the inventory list they come out.

The inventory list better be as clear as possible.

If got picture, even best.

Or else.. state the brand, model, colour

I had a question. If during this period (tenancy under your period), the item damage how?

[Jgal 0]

I had a question. If during this period (tenancy under your period), the item damage how?

yeah.. i find this amusing. What if items is lost or damage after the tenancy expires ? normally, damages are deducted from the security deposit, which in this case means that you need to give back less the tenant. *fullstop*

Dun think seller can lay claim to the items given that they dun intent to pass you the security deposit.

Anyway, i may chose to keep the inventory as ambiguous as possible dealing with this kind of ppl.

1. seller have no access to the house after the house is sold to you. So you determine when the seller get back their things.

2. if seller claim a fridge , you just need to give him a any fridge... you have no obligation to give back the same model if model is not specified. Not forgetting that, e.g. if he place a bosch fridge in there now, in june 2011 and it damaged/lost.. you shld not need to give him back a brand new bosch fridge. Anyway, go to court also no need to give him back the same model if not specified.

3. BTW, i just realized that after you sign the agreement and if the house is not yet yours. That seller still can change the items to cheaper models So no point specify also.

just my 2 cents worth

Edited November 19, 2010 by Jgal

[kardtoon 0]

This does sound like a very one sided agreement. You don't get the deposit and you have to give up all the inventory items. Doesn't sound like a very reasonable seller. You should probably think about protecting yourself if you enter into this agreement. At the very least, inspect the fixtures, inventory items, take photos and get witnesses.

[karol.wee 0]

for complicated/amended OTP terms, always seek legal help.

it is only fair that both buyer & seller are legally represented, and terms are negotiated before exchanging booking fee for the OTP.

just like to share my experience in a recent property purchase with TA (negotiation of terms in OTP took 1 week):

1) seller's agent provided draft copy of OTP

2) I forwarded it to my lawyer with specific request to delete/amend clauses

3) amended draft OTP returned to seller via agent for their consideration

4) seller agree to terms by counter-signing at each amendment when they exchange the signed OTP (with copy of TA & duplicated stamp duty evidence for TA & inventory list) for my booking fee.

negotiation related to TA are via email between myself, seller agent & seller:

1) specific furniture seller wants to be return

2) state time frame upon expiry of tenancy for seller to move items in (1)

lawyers' work:

1) write to inform seller mode for return security deposit (usually via deduction of sales proceeds at completion; however bearing in mind that buyer needs to pay pro-rata maintainence fees) & access cards & keys etc etc; therefore statement of cashflow is usually prepared and agreed by lawyers of both side nearing completion

2) write to inform tenants new owners & monthly rental payment arrangement

3) follow up with tenancy stemp fee and other tax arrangemnts

This does sound like a very one sided agreement. You don't get the deposit and you have to give up all the inventory items. Doesn't sound like a very reasonable seller. You should probably think about protecting yourself if you enter into this agreement. At the very least, inspect the fixtures, inventory items, take photos and get witnesses.