A Meeting Of East And West In Tampines.

[RimBlock 0]

Well we have good and bad news...

CPF monies are in from our sale but have to wait until 27th until the second appointment. Our agent wanted to be careful to make sure all CPF moies were back and then Christmas holiday so 27th was the earliest.

Adding to that, if we only get the keys on 27th then we have 3 days for reno permit application and new year, the reno can only start at the beginning of Jan and with CNY coming and workers going to their home countries, it may only give a couple of weeks for the reno works.

We have asked the current owners if we can apply under their name and sign the indemnity agreement as long as work does not start until after the second appointment. We are waiting to hear back.

Finance is ok at the moment.

I went and saw the sinks etc at the place I was taken to by Henry but I am not convinced they are cheap. Will check out some other places this weekend.

Need to speak with PUB about taking over the water and electric for the new place on the 27th.

Still the clock is ticking slowly....

RB

[hermione 1]

Hihi! You are very brave to put your wifey's picture up, I'd have slaughtered my husband if he did that! Good luck with your renovations! One thing i don't get is why do you need a network when most people are trying to go wireless for everything now?

[neubie 2]

Hihi! You are very brave to put your wifey's picture up, I'd have slaughtered my husband if he did that! Good luck with your renovations! One thing i don't get is why do you need a network when most people are trying to go wireless for everything now?

While wireless translates to mobility and freedom, it's connection is never 100% guaranteed at all times. Imagine if the entire neighbourhood is using wireless (there are only 13 WLAN channels allowed for use), there will bound to be signal interference due to Home A jamming the frequencies used in Home B, affecting data thruput, QoS, pple trying to sneak into your wireless network... That's why wired LAN is more secure and 100% reliable in that aspect.

[steelze 0]

wow... as i read on, i realised doing a network setup for a house is soooo complicated. i was quoted the following electrical work which include 4X data access point (cat6) by my electrican. but $3.5k seems very low for my electrician to cover his margin right, especially i am doing LAN network setup. but he said ok, can be done. will he give me lousy lan cables or etc?

10A lighting point X30

13A double point X 21

13A single point X2

20A water heater point (2-way switch)

Data point (cat6) X4

Cooker hood /hob point X1

Oven point X1

Installation of lighting X30

Installation of fan fixture X4

1 set of MCB

Door bell point with bell push button X1

SCV point X4

Telephone point X2

Air con point X1

2-way switch for lighting point @ living room X1

Total amount: $3500

therefore, can share your view how should i inspect /check the items that he is providing? although i am slightly IT savvy in my wife's view (hehehe), but network components are a big NO NO to me. please advise what are the required items for a lan network setup for a hdb room. Anything else that i should add to my electrical quote?

[neubie 2]

wow... as i read on, i realised doing a network setup for a house is soooo complicated. i was quoted the following electrical work which include 4X data access point (cat6) by my electrican. but $3.5k seems very low for my electrician to cover his margin right, especially i am doing LAN network setup. but he said ok, can be done. will he give me lousy lan cables or etc?

10A lighting point X30

13A double point X 21

13A single point X2

20A water heater point (2-way switch)

Data point (cat6) X4

Cooker hood /hob point X1

Oven point X1

Installation of lighting X30

Installation of fan fixture X4

1 set of MCB

Door bell point with bell push button X1

SCV point X4

Telephone point X2

Air con point X1

2-way switch for lighting point @ living room X1

Total amount: $3500

therefore, can share your view how should i inspect /check the items that he is providing? although i am slightly IT savvy in my wife's view (hehehe), but network components are a big NO NO to me. please advise what are the required items for a lan network setup for a hdb room. Anything else that i should add to my electrical quote?

just make sure after he punch the RJ45 faceplates, he has a LAN tester to cyclically test end-to-end all the 8 conductors. what my electrician has is this transmitter-receiver pair, connect on both ends, and all the 8 LEDs are lighted in a round-robin fashion....

alternatively, use ur wired router, connect all the RJ45 connectors, using a laptop to hookup on the other end, open ur browser to point to 192.168.1.1 (which is the address of most routers) if can display a splash page, bingo. test passed.

[RimBlock 0]

just make sure after he punch the RJ45 faceplates, he has a LAN tester to cyclically test end-to-end all the 8 conductors. what my electrician has is this transmitter-receiver pair, connect on both ends, and all the 8 LEDs are lighted in a round-robin fashion....

alternatively, use ur wired router, connect all the RJ45 connectors, using a laptop to hookup on the other end, open ur browser to point to 192.168.1.1 (which is the address of most routers) if can display a splash page, bingo. test passed.

Yep I will be checking with an end to end tester for wiring but this will not test speed.

If you want to get the most out then 'according to specs' your network cables should be 3 metres from electrical cables and if they should touch they need cross over at right angles to minimise impact. In essence this means that where possible, if the electrical trunking is running up near the ceiling then the network trunking should be run near the floor. Bends in the cable should also be no sharper then the diameter of a 10 cent coin. Sharp bends damage the wire pattern in the cable and so may introduce interference.

Does this really make a big difference... I would say not really. Unless you are trying to squeeze 10Gigabit out of the cables then you should not need to be so precise.

Iperf will also check network connectivity speeds without adding variables like hard drive speed in to the equation. Info here on how to use this open source application.

RB

[RimBlock 0]

wow... as i read on, i realised doing a network setup for a house is soooo complicated. i was quoted the following electrical work which include 4X data access point (cat6) by my electrican. but $3.5k seems very low for my electrician to cover his margin right, especially i am doing LAN network setup. but he said ok, can be done. will he give me lousy lan cables or etc?

10A lighting point X30

13A double point X 21

13A single point X2

20A water heater point (2-way switch)

Data point (cat6) X4

Cooker hood /hob point X1

Oven point X1

Installation of lighting X30

Installation of fan fixture X4

1 set of MCB

Door bell point with bell push button X1

SCV point X4

Telephone point X2

Air con point X1

2-way switch for lighting point @ living room X1

Total amount: $3500

therefore, can share your view how should i inspect /check the items that he is providing? although i am slightly IT savvy in my wife's view (hehehe), but network components are a big NO NO to me. please advise what are the required items for a lan network setup for a hdb room. Anything else that i should add to my electrical quote?

Seems like a good quote. Would be interested in a breakdown per item and contact if possible. Based on the single prices for items I was quoted, mine would be about 1K more expensive for the same requirements. I expect my quote is expensive though.

The other alternative is to ask him for a quote with regard to the lan points if you supply the cable etc. Depends on how long the cable runs are but could work out cheaper. I am quoted $95 per lan run, just running the cables if I supply it goes down to $25. I need to get the cable, sockets and plugs but at least I know the quality I am getting.

TBH my previous install had one lan cable run and I have never had an issue with it.

The sad thing is with all the electrical work, I would have done myself (and have in the past) anything after the MCB in the unit (lighting, sockets etc) but there are rules in Singapore prohibiting this type of DIY work (the same is now true in the UK) for fairly good reason.

RB

[RimBlock 0]

Hihi! You are very brave to put your wifey's picture up, I'd have slaughtered my husband if he did that! Good luck with your renovations! One thing i don't get is why do you need a network when most people are trying to go wireless for everything now?

Nothing is posted that is not already on her facebook page . She would have no grounds to complain..... I made very sure before hand .

As for Wifi,

As Neubie has mentioned, there can be a number of issues with bandwidth due to conditions outside of your control. Usually this will not affect general browsing etc on the internet from a laptop or desktop but for streaming HD movies and possibly up to 4 movies all at the same time, wireless bandwith and home plug bandwidth will just not be able to cope.

Long answer for those who are a bit more interested,

To covert the speed of the connection to an easy to work with common unit divide it by 8. 8Mb/s (megabits per second) = 1MB/s (megabyte per second).

Now for Wifi there are 3 common standards;

802.11b - 11Mbps

802.11g - 54Mbps

802.11n - 150Mbps

802.11n - 300Mbps (usually two wireless n streams 2.9GHz and 5GHz). Sometimes referred to as n+ by manufacturers.

802.11n - 450Mbps (usually three wireless n streams 2.9GHz and 5GHz). Sometimes referred to as n+ by manufacturers.

802.11n - 600Mbps (usually four wireless n streams 2.9GHz and 5GHz). Sometimes referred to as n+ by manufacturers.

The ones in bold are not usually available to the general public yet.

These speeds are the raw data rate max for the connections. In Reality they are quite a bit slower

Taken from Wikipedia (IEEE 802.11g-2003) highlited text applied by me.

802.11g is the third modulation standard for wireless LANs. It works in the 2.4 GHz band (like 802.11b) but operates at a maximum raw data rate of 54 Mbit/s, or about 19 Mbit/s net throughput

Max throughput on 11n is estimated at around 50Mb/s and 100Mb/s on N+ but you need compatible equipment on both sides of the connection and a lot of N+ equipment lets you use one or the other channel so only gives 150Mbps rather than joining both channels for 300Mbps.

Taken From Wikipedia (BluRay)

BD Video movies have a maximum data transfer rate of 54 Mbit/s, a maximum AV bitrate of 48 Mbit/s (for both audio and video data), and a maximum video bit rate of 40 Mbit/s

So BluRay also can require 54Mb/s or 6.75MB/s. 54b Wifi is not fast enough for a single stream and neither is 150n (50Mbps) as you will see frame drops or the movie will just hang every now and then. Wireless n+ should be fine with one HD video stream if you do not have any of the issues Neubie stated.

Wired networks come in two mainstream sizes, 100Mbit (12.5MB/s) or 1Gigabit (125MB/s). It is not unusual to be able to get over 100MB/s on a Gbit network connection. So to put it all together in one place (net values not theoretical maximums used);

Bluray max = 54Mbps (6.75MB/s)

Wifi 11g = 19Mbps (2.375MB/s)

Wifi 11n = 50Mbps (6.25MB/s)

Wifi 11n+ = 100Mbps (12.5MB/s)

Wired 100Mb = around 85Mbps (10.625MB/s)

Wired 1Gb = around 880Mb/s (110MB/s)

So to stream one BluRay stream from a PC to a player (ie the Western Digital live TV for example) you would need to be looking at Wireless N+ or 100Mb wired as a minimum but would probably get stutters depending on anything else going on with the network. Gbit Lan is the best bet.

Just as an aside, HDTV (i.e. MIO TV etc) usually runs at around 8-15Mbps average and up to 20Mbps peek (up to 2.37MB/s). This is why the home plugs can work for it rather than requiring a dedicated lan connection.

This is with all things equal. I have a DNS-323 NAS box at the moment and it has a Gb network interface but can only get up to 15->18MB/s. I also have an AC Ryan media player which can play HD content but only has a 100Mb network interface. So easy to get tripped up out there.

Note,, the Bluray figures are quoted for playing a Bluray ISO from disk over the network and not for playing an avi rip of a Bluray rip (or MKV or WMA). These have been compressed and have a lower bitrate.

RB

[neubie 2]

Nothing is posted that is not already on her facebook page . She would have no grounds to complain..... I made very sure before hand .

As for Wifi,

As Neubie has mentioned, there can be a number of issues with bandwidth due to conditions outside of your control. Usually this will not affect general browsing etc on the internet from a laptop or desktop but for streaming HD movies and possibly up to 4 movies all at the same time, wireless bandwith and home plug bandwidth will just not be able to cope.

Long answer for those who are a bit more interested,

To covert the speed of the connection to an easy to work with common unit divide it by 8. 8Mb/s (megabits per second) = 1MB/s (megabyte per second).

Now for Wifi there are 3 common standards;

802.11b - 11Mbps

802.11g - 54Mbps

802.11n - 150Mbps

802.11n - 300Mbps (usually two wireless n streams 2.9GHz and 5GHz). Sometimes referred to as n+ by manufacturers.

802.11n - 450Mbps (usually three wireless n streams 2.9GHz and 5GHz). Sometimes referred to as n+ by manufacturers.

802.11n - 600Mbps (usually four wireless n streams 2.9GHz and 5GHz). Sometimes referred to as n+ by manufacturers.

The ones in bold are not usually available to the general public yet.

These speeds are the raw data rate max for the connections. In Reality they are quite a bit slower

Taken from Wikipedia (IEEE 802.11g-2003) highlited text applied by me.

Max throughput on 11n is estimated at around 50Mb/s and 100Mb/s on N+ but you need compatible equipment on both sides of the connection and a lot of N+ equipment lets you use one or the other channel so only gives 150Mbps rather than joining both channels for 300Mbps.

Taken From Wikipedia (BluRay)

So BluRay also can require 54Mb/s or 6.75MB/s. 54b Wifi is not fast enough for a single stream and neither is 150n (50Mbps) as you will see frame drops or the movie will just hang every now and then. Wireless n+ should be fine with one HD video stream if you do not have any of the issues Neubie stated.

Wired networks come in two mainstream sizes, 100Mbit (12.5MB/s) or 1Gigabit (125MB/s). It is not unusual to be able to get over 100MB/s on a Gbit network connection. So to put it all together in one place (net values not theoretical maximums used);

Bluray max = 54Mbps (6.75MB/s)

Wifi 11g = 19Mbps (2.375MB/s)

Wifi 11n = 50Mbps (6.25MB/s)

Wifi 11n+ = 100Mbps (12.5MB/s)

Wired 100Mb = around 85Mbps (10.625MB/s)

Wired 1Gb = around 880Mb/s (110MB/s)

So to stream one BluRay stream from a PC to a player (ie the Western Digital live TV for example) you would need to be looking at Wireless N+ or 100Mb wired as a minimum but would probably get stutters depending on anything else going on with the network. Gbit Lan is the best bet.

Just as an aside, HDTV (i.e. MIO TV etc) usually runs at around 8-15Mbps average and up to 20Mbps peek (up to 2.37MB/s). This is why the home plugs can work for it rather than requiring a dedicated lan connection.

This is with all things equal. I have a DNS-323 NAS box at the moment and it has a Gb network interface but can only get up to 15->18MB/s. I also have an AC Ryan media player which can play HD content but only has a 100Mb network interface. So easy to get tripped up out there.

Note,, the Bluray figures are quoted for playing a Bluray ISO from disk over the network and not for playing an avi rip of a Bluray rip (or MKV or WMA). These have been compressed and have a lower bitrate.

RB

extremely concise explanation!!! So i was right to use a wired 100base-T connection for my Samsung DLNA TV, rather than relying on their pricey 802.11n USB dongle which will hardly attain a sustained 54Mbps for BD content.

[RimBlock 0]

extremely concise explanation!!! So i was right to use a wired 100base-T connection for my Samsung DLNA TV, rather than relying on their pricey 802.11n USB dongle which will hardly attain a sustained 54Mbps for BD content.

I had been using wireless N for movies and it was generally ok but could cause stutters now and then.

I still have issues with 1Gbit lan but I suspect they are due to my NAS box or my WD Live TV. Still waiting for the NAS new motherboard and my array controller cables and then I will be able to build the NAS the way I want rather than using software raid. I will also try out raid10 (mirrored then striped) for speed over raid5 (parity) on a 5/6 disk array.

Anyway, as mentioned in another thread, we have costed the sinks / toilets etc and it has come to 2.2k without showers....... Only luxury items are the sinks for the two upstairs toilets and they were only S$60 above the usual small square sinks. We love the shower head we currently have in our mbr and have been looking for the same setup for the new place. Seen the shower head again in one place but the head alone was S$280 (ish). We bought the full set for around S$750 3 years ago but it is no longer on sale at the same place. Seems only chrome ones are being sold there now rather than stainless steel.

For electrical work, it has been confirmed by Henry that to just replace the trunking and switches for most of the points in the new property will be around 60-70% of the normal price as the cornice around the top of the room will hold the wires in fairly good position when the trunking is removed. The current trunking and some switches has the bubble plaster effect on them which we would like to get rid of. Without the cornice the cables would have ended up in one big heap meaning even if they still kept the current wires, it would be like trying to untangle a big ball of string so not much price difference to renewing fully.

We have done the pre-second appointment viewing on Sunday with Henry and apart from some water damage in one upper bedroom which we need to get checked by town council (we are top floor), all looks reasonable. The current owners are moving out this week (packing as we visited) and have been kind enough to let us apply for the reno permit under their names with the indemnity agreement signed so we can start the reno as soon as we get the keys.

Keys date is 27th (next Monday) and TBH, Christmas does not have quite the same weight this year as it usually does as we are just waiting for the keys .

We are looking for companies that can reno the staircase though so if anyone knows of any and rough idea of price for new wooden handrails for the stairs and landing (the stairs themselves are fine) then I would love to hear. Google has not been my friend in this search. We have a quote from Henry but want to get other quotes as well to make sure it is reasonable.

Oh, my wife got a diamond ring yesterday as well. I say, got a ring.... she will get it in the new year as it is off for resizing. 0.7 carat, VS1, Clarity D, excellent cut, international cert. She is happy... the credit card, not so much . She has been after a solitaire for a while though and I offered when we sold the house so we went out looking as Sookie has a big sale on. We bought at Lee Hwa in the end for quite a bit more than we budgeted for but she is happy and it will be paid for over time interest free so not such a burden on the budget.

TBH I will be spending the same amount on the projector etc when my bonus comes in so it is good we both get something we really want.

RB

[neubie 2]

PMed u.

[RimBlock 0]

Thanks Neubie,

So we have a quote of 2K+ for a wooden handrail and glass side panels. Whilst we would prefer all wood, we may go this way as my wife really hates the current stairs handrail. We are checking with Henry for a quote as well without mentioning the previous quote price. We shall see what comes up.

My wife was concerned about he glass with the kids around but as long as it is laminated safety glass it should be fine (it will shatter into little squares rather than sharp jagged pieces and has a layer of sticky plastic in the centre to hold the broken pieces in place should it break).

RB

[neubie 2]

Thanks Neubie,

So we have a quote of 2K+ for a wooden handrail and glass side panels. Whilst we would prefer all wood, we may go this way as my wife really hates the current stairs handrail. We are checking with Henry for a quote as well without mentioning the previous quote price. We shall see what comes up.

My wife was concerned about he glass with the kids around but as long as it is laminated safety glass it should be fine (it will shatter into little squares rather than sharp jagged pieces and has a layer of sticky plastic in the centre to hold the broken pieces in place should it break).

RB

i tink when it comes to household glass in the house, it has to be tempered glass for safety....

[cleong 1]

I also had my staircase railings changed out for a quote of $4000 plus $150 for demolition of existing staircase. If yours is $2000 its a good price, but take care that it is structurally sound.

From this:

To this:

[january 0]

Isn't it safer to have the safety film coating the outside of the glass as opposed to the middle? That way even when the glass breaks they'll be held together by the film... and is probably still usable if you don't mind the "distressed" look.

just some thoughts.