How Many Signed Otp Last Week?

[Jgal 0]

If ur combined income is more than 10k, and u are not rich then others are really really poor. Anyway , u can continue to feel sorry for yourself.

P/s what makes u think that I earn less than u. Ha ha ha.anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Jgal

[Ely 0]

Anyway, I do feel sorry for those who intend to make Singapore home and are affected my these new rules . My statement are solely meant for u. I am also affected by the policies but I know they are to help my fellow Singaporean so I don't complaint , just work around it. Unlike u who take loopholes in the policies to benefit yourself. If u are not wrong why cannot tell hdb.

I did not hide anything from HDB. I am still abiding by their laws. This policy was put in effect for a week, and I have done nothing but fret over my options. What loopholes have I exploited and how is it benefiting me? That my life is put on hold, my brother needs to move out and we need to go through the tedious process of selling, moving, storing everything in a container, buying WHILE I look for another flat here? That my ROM will be postponed, I will need to take time off from work (time that should be devoted to a honeymoon, but now that is moot, since the entire proceedings would take more take 2 weeks, which means my entire year's leave is gone). I receive no grant. I have forfeited my OTP. How, pray tell, does this benefit me?

The house overseas isn't even mine! I received neither any rental yield, or any proceeds from the sale. My partner and I decided not to receive any help from our family - we want everything we own to be ours alone, we do not want to "cheat" the system by hoping there is no feasible way of keeping track of overseas property - so we are penalised for our integrity? I expect that checks be made for Singaporean PRs, as they are most likely to also own a property in their home country, but it's unlikely that they can possibly check *every* Singaporean. Like boffi said, some Singapore PRs are already thinking of using a different name here and it would be impossible to trace. We chose not to take that route, and are giving up a home we had in our family for over a decade (force selling it in today's Australia market will also guarantee a loss) just so I can buy a HDB flat, and that is benefiting me??

I agree that the measures help first-time home owners, and I am glad for the cooling measures to aid them. But it does put genuine first time owners like me, and Singapore PRs, in a very tight and unfair spot.

I think your statements stem from bitterness and resentment.

[Ely 0]

If ur combined income is more than 10k, and u are not rich then others are really really poor. Anyway , u can continue to feel sorry for yourself.

P/s what makes u think that I earn less than u. Ha ha ha.anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I mentioned nothing about income. Not yours, and definitely not about mine.

[bepgof 20]

Ely, look like you're determined to sell away the house in Australia? Think twice and for long term, since you've already obtained a PR status. This is your advantage.

Must you die die get a resale HDB flat? (Think hard, ask hard, do homework hard as well).

Based on my "instinct/sentiment", more accurately is the accumulation of working experience (work like cow as therat said) - Look to me this particular rule, is just a tool to "test" the reaction of the market (especially PRs, to see HOW willing they are going to "sacrifice" for Singapore), and will be short-lived. Probably 3~ 6 months, we shall see.

I think all HDB units (whether old or new)all have "common" tiolet within kitchen? The way you wrote sound as if you want the hdb grant very much. It comes with costs.

What you've fought hard and gained it, do not give up easily.

Edited September 7, 2010 by bepgof

[jansenboy 0]

My first post on this board though I have been trolling around. Decided to finally signup and post!

Ely this is my personal take on the situation

You are unfortunately one of those affected by the sudden and unexpected tougher measures that the Govt intends to take on HDB flats. While I sympathise with your situation, I would say that the Govt has it's own reason for the new policy. There are many people, Singaporeans included who are as affected as you if not more. For example, A couple heading into retirement who intends to rent out their private property and stay in a re-sale HDB in their old age will have their retirement plan dented serverly. I am not talking about a rich couple but perhaps one who just happen to buy private homes when it is cheap. To me, their situation is alot worse than yours.

Back to your situation. I guess now is the important thing to ask yourself is whether or not you ever intend to move back to your home country in the near future. What I mean is this. If you are intending to work in Singapore for just a few years and then perhaps move back, then I am sorry but the Govt want people like you to rent a HDB if you want cheaper source of housing. The policy is very simple and I will not try to "design" my words too much. HDB is for Singaporean family to stay in. You might think it is harsh but I think other countries have more restrictive policies than Singapore. I am not exactly sure with the details but Australia for example do not allow foreigners to own property or smth similar(pls correct me if I am wrong).

The Govt though will allow you to buy re-sale HDB if you feel it is not worth financially for yourself to rent (if you are intending to stay in Singapore for a long time). But for that on your part you will have to sell your overseas property. Simple truth is that they don't want you to earn income from your overseas rent and thus have more money to be able to jack up HDB prices in Singapore thus causing young couple family in Singapore who do not have such earning capabilities as yourselves to be priced out (I know you do not rent out your overseas property but that's beside the point because the Govt have to assume you do). U might think it is unfair to you but the truth is the Govt cannot have a situation of PR like yourself being able to rent out their overseas home while they are here and then having the financial capabilities of jacking up the prices and then selling your home in the future. Think of the young singapore couples who have no chance of competing with PR (unlike you as you do not rent out ur home) who are able to tap on their rental income overseas.

So basically you have to choose whether or not you prefer a HDB here or your overseas home and that choice will be dependening on your personal intentions in the near-mid term future. I can't say which is better as only you yourself will know best. Personally though, my honest opinion is that this overseas policy was implemented in quick slip-short decision(meaning i believe they didn't think of the possible scenario of foreigners owning overseas and quickly included that when asked). As most have rightly pointed out, checking whether you do own overseas is impossible for the Govt to ensure in reality (too much cost, too much manpower required). But lets take it as they can check in your case. You will either need to Rent HDB, Sell overseas and buy HDB or simply go private if you can afford it.

[JCase 0]

Ely, sorry to learn about your predicament. Explore and exercise all your options. Let the cooling measures take effect first and see if it impact prices across the board. Explore and be patient. Look for old pte property, if you research enough and keep plugging away, I'm sure you'll find something within your budget. I don't think you should off load your property in Australia. Imoit makes no sense to do this and to buy a HDB. What are the befits you hope to get out of this?

I understand that you are fretting but keep a cool, clear head and think this through very carefully. Good luck.

[Ely 0]

Ely, look like you're determined to sell away the house in Australia? Think twice and for long term, since you've already obtained a PR status. This is your advantage.

Must you die die get a resale HDB flat? (Think hard, ask hard, do homework hard as well).

Based on my "instinct/sentiment", more accurately is the accumulation of working experience (work like cow as therat said) - Look to me this particular rule, is just a tool to "test" the reaction of the market (especially PRs, to see HOW willing they are going to "sacrifice" for Singapore), and will be short-lived. Probably 3~ 6 months, we shall see.

I think all HDB units (whether old or new)all have "common" tiolet within kitchen? The way you wrote sound as if you want the hdb grant very much. It comes with costs.

What you've fought hard and gained it, do not give up easily.

Hi Bepgof,

Thank you for your advice. I have been recently looking at some more affordable condos, as I keep thinking the entire selling/moving/buying in Australia would cost a lot more strain than say, another 150k for a private property. Not to mention the loss I would incur if I force-sell the home in Australia + tax levies.

No, I am not eligible for the grant under any circumstances anyway, because I am not considered a first-time home owner. I was merely reiterating that I wasn't getting it easier like Jgal was insinuating, as compared to "his" fellow Singaporeans.

The next available BTOs are only available in 2014-2015, and that is too long for me, which is why we ended up looking at resale flats. That is simply 5 years I do not have. The newer flats which boast a "condo layout" does not come with a common toilet in the kitchen.

You may be right about the "test" as it was just published today that one of the measures would be to give Singapore PRs an ultimatum (either citizenship, or you must leave within xx period).

I will definitely think more about this, thank you for giving me a direction within reason.

[Ely 0]

My first post on this board though I have been trolling around. Decided to finally signup and post!

Ely this is my personal take on the situation

You are unfortunately one of those affected by the sudden and unexpected tougher measures that the Govt intends to take on HDB flats. While I sympathise with your situation, I would say that the Govt has it's own reason for the new policy. There are many people, Singaporeans included who are as affected as you if not more. For example, A couple heading into retirement who intends to rent out their private property and stay in a re-sale HDB in their old age will have their retirement plan dented serverly. I am not talking about a rich couple but perhaps one who just happen to buy private homes when it is cheap. To me, their situation is alot worse than yours.

Back to your situation. I guess now is the important thing to ask yourself is whether or not you ever intend to move back to your home country in the near future. What I mean is this. If you are intending to work in Singapore for just a few years and then perhaps move back, then I am sorry but the Govt want people like you to rent a HDB if you want cheaper source of housing. The policy is very simple and I will not try to "design" my words too much. HDB is for Singaporean family to stay in. You might think it is harsh but I think other countries have more restrictive policies than Singapore. I am not exactly sure with the details but Australia for example do not allow foreigners to own property or smth similar(pls correct me if I am wrong).

The Govt though will allow you to buy re-sale HDB if you feel it is not worth financially for yourself to rent (if you are intending to stay in Singapore for a long time). But for that on your part you will have to sell your overseas property. Simple truth is that they don't want you to earn income from your overseas rent and thus have more money to be able to jack up HDB prices in Singapore thus causing young couple family in Singapore who do not have such earning capabilities as yourselves to be priced out (I know you do not rent out your overseas property but that's beside the point because the Govt have to assume you do). U might think it is unfair to you but the truth is the Govt cannot have a situation of PR like yourself being able to rent out their overseas home while they are here and then having the financial capabilities of jacking up the prices and then selling your home in the future. Think of the young singapore couples who have no chance of competing with PR (unlike you as you do not rent out ur home) who are able to tap on their rental income overseas.

So basically you have to choose whether or not you prefer a HDB here or your overseas home and that choice will be dependening on your personal intentions in the near-mid term future. I can't say which is better as only you yourself will know best. Personally though, my honest opinion is that this overseas policy was implemented in quick slip-short decision(meaning i believe they didn't think of the possible scenario of foreigners owning overseas and quickly included that when asked). As most have rightly pointed out, checking whether you do own overseas is impossible for the Govt to ensure in reality (too much cost, too much manpower required). But lets take it as they can check in your case. You will either need to Rent HDB, Sell overseas and buy HDB or simply go private if you can afford it.

Hi Jansenboy,

I am honored that my lamenting has encouraged you to finally post!

I do admit that there are people far worse (there will ALWAYS be someone far worse, but that's hardly a yardstick of how "bad" a situation you are in), like my example of Singaporean PRs who have their parents living in their family homes in their home country.

One thing you have misunderstood throughout your post is that I am not a Singapore PR. I am Singaporean, born and bred, only that I went overseas to Australia to study, took up their offer of Australian PR-ship because I qualified (choice of degree + age, and it was much easier then) and then fulfilled the requirements of living there for a certain period of time. So, Singapore is my home, where my family is and I have lived and worked here ever since I returned from Australia. The house in Australia was paid for by my parents, kept as a holiday home and for my other siblings to also live in during their education there (like my brother who is now currently living and studying in Australia).

You are right about Australian REIWA laws - that is why the property is in my name, and it's precisely that - only in name that it exists, and it also means I cannot transfer the deed to my parents because it is not a 99% new property (once bought, it's considered "old"). It was NEVER an investment (since it yielded no income - never been rented out) so that deflates your stance on earning rental overseas. To abide by the Australian laws as well, if I have to force-sell the property and have my parents buy another, I would have to kick my brother out, and buy a 1) brand new development 2) one in developing stage 3) an empty plot of land and erect a house on it. My parents would then pay a much higher tax as a "foreign investor". About this, I offer no contest. In order to abide by both countries' property laws, it is just something I (and my parents) simply have to do. I am not whining about this. This is a lot more straightforward to me - because I am offered options. My brother can simply rent like most overseas students, and I am not breaking my head over this, except that I might incur a loss on the property when I sell it now as the market isn't doing as well.

My partner and I were looking at HDBs because we want to start a life together and have a family, or in your words "for a Singaporean family to live in". I have not nor do I intend to return to Australia to live because the family business is here, and my family is here. I simply was looking for a more affordable home (HDB resale) that I could grow in and with, instead of having a shoebox apartment and having to move once we decide to have children (and being in my early 30s, there's that clock ticking). Another reason is that my partner and I decided not to be bogged down by mortage payments, we want to be comfortable, not stressed every month and calculating if it's okay to have that steak dinner. I want my marriage to start smoothly, without the strain of financial worries or the possibility of arguments (since money is one of the biggest reasons why couples argue).

The current dilemma is whether to wait and sell the overseas property at our advantage (or allow my brother to complete his studies first), put my life and marriage on hold or taking the plunge and taking a bigger mortage. We want to base everything on only one partner's salary, in order to stay on the safe side of things.

But yes, I do understand my options now. I am just a little miffed that I have to be placed in a tight spot when a week ago, everything was going according to plan and we were excited about having a home and I was already arranging for my cat in Australia to come to Singapore when the reno work is done. Now it simply means - my poor cat is still stuck in Australia, my ROM is postponed indefinitely, and the excitement of having an address is now diminished.

I hope you understand my predicament a little more accurately now.

[Ely 0]

Ely, sorry to learn about your predicament. Explore and exercise all your options. Let the cooling measures take effect first and see if it impact prices across the board. Explore and be patient. Look for old pte property, if you research enough and keep plugging away, I'm sure you'll find something within your budget. I don't think you should off load your property in Australia. Imoit makes no sense to do this and to buy a HDB. What are the befits you hope to get out of this?

I understand that you are fretting but keep a cool, clear head and think this through very carefully. Good luck.

Thank you JCase, for your sympathy. It seems lacking on this board. You do make sense about not offloading the Australian property, I guess it simply means we take a bigger bank loan or humble ourselves and receive help from parents (which we did not want to do at all).

I'll keep everyone updated, and will try to remain positive. I have been so very upset about this, and it helps when people on renotalk put things into perspective (since my emotions are running amok).

[random_username 0]

Thank you JCase, for your sympathy. It seems lacking on this board. You do make sense about not offloading the Australian property, I guess it simply means we take a bigger bank loan or humble ourselves and receive help from parents (which we did not want to do at all).

I'll keep everyone updated, and will try to remain positive. I have been so very upset about this, and it helps when people on renotalk put things into perspective (since my emotions are running amok).

jmo, i think there was some miscommunication part of which has now been clarified and put in context.

your situation, while being more challenging than before, may not be dire. afterall, you consider selling your overseas property to be more strenuous than coming up with 150k more for a pte ppty, and you are your partner are planning ahead to get by on one person's income (i like this, by the way. it was something that guided the financial planning for my husband and me too). you do have options, just, perhaps, options that weren't very high on your preference list compared to before.

i do hope you find something you and your significant other like, and, yes, i'm all for making sure that financial issues not germinate conflict in a marriage.

all the best!

Edited September 7, 2010 by random_username

[musicbox 0]

Hi Ely,

I sympathy your situation, only ppl who get hurt will feel the pain, but be optimistic, at least you've a house in Australia la, find out your ways to get your dream home, and you'll get your ROM and others, do it slowly

My babysitter was very sad over the new rules too, her whole family just converted to SG citizen early of the year, and she intend to apply for BTO next month. But the new ruling means she'll have to sell off her house in Msia if she want to get new HDB, and the problem is not because she doesn't want to sell, but she had been getting agent to sell for her since her application to citizen and till now the house can't be sold. She's quite sad as she can't apply for the BTO next month, but of course she still have her current old flat to stay, better than those new couple who can't even get an HDB, but the feeling of planning been cancelled, i guess only the person him/herself can really feel it......

Anyway, good luck to you in getting your dream home

[Ely 0]

Hi Ely,

I sympathy your situation, only ppl who get hurt will feel the pain, but be optimistic, at least you've a house in Australia la, find out your ways to get your dream home, and you'll get your ROM and others, do it slowly

My babysitter was very sad over the new rules too, her whole family just converted to SG citizen early of the year, and she intend to apply for BTO next month. But the new ruling means she'll have to sell off her house in Msia if she want to get new HDB, and the problem is not because she doesn't want to sell, but she had been getting agent to sell for her since her application to citizen and till now the house can't be sold. She's quite sad as she can't apply for the BTO next month, but of course she still have her current old flat to stay, better than those new couple who can't even get an HDB, but the feeling of planning been cancelled, i guess only the person him/herself can really feel it......

Anyway, good luck to you in getting your dream home

Hi musicbox,

I understand your babysitter's circumstance - as it is similiar to what I am facing. Like I kept mentioning, my life is put on hold because I cannot guarantee the sale within 6 months - and I do not know what penalty I would face if I simply cannot sell it, regardless of the marketing and open houses and auctions and agent's efforts. If I am still keen on a HDB resale, I can ONLY proceed after I am sure that the property in Australia is in the negotiating stage.

It is like the option of owning a HDB is completely torn from me. My choices now are not exactly desirable - get a bigger loan, stay in Mickey Mouse apartment, sell my beloved home in Australia. I know a house in Australia is a luxury, but it's my parents' and they have every right to own it - afterall, they earned it. I can't go back to Australia and live there - it is not my house, though it is a house full of wonderful memories of family holidays and of my years in Australia. And yes, the feeling of no longer planning is the worst part - it is like I am now stagnant. Perhaps the feeling is magnified since everything was so sudden and decisions have to be made quickly if I want to retain my ROM date etc.

Thanks for your best wishes, and I hope the same for your babysitter too.

[Ely 0]

jmo, i think there was some miscommunication part of which has now been clarified and put in context.

your situation, while being more challenging than before, may not be dire. afterall, you consider selling your overseas property to be more strenuous than coming up with 150k more for a pte ppty, and you are your partner are planning ahead to get by on one person's income (i like this, by the way. it was something that guided the financial planning for my husband and me too). you do have options, just, perhaps, options that weren't very high on your preference list compared to before.

i do hope you find something you and your significant other like, and, yes, i'm all for making sure that financial issues not germinate conflict in a marriage.

all the best!

Hi random,

You're right - the options offered to me now have shrunk, and not in my best advantage. I'm glad we agree that financial disagreements should be avoided in all marriages - I would hate to have my marriage start off badly or stressed, which is why we are still adhering to the one person's income rule.

Thank you for your good wishes, I hope we find something we like too, then I can start my reno-blog!

[Jgal 0]

i have raise this thread to the press and feedback.gov.sg.. Cos' its very interesting.. singaporean before pr , pr before foreigner...

let them decide where they categories born singaporean that are pr elsewhere..

hope the government will look into your case. Good luck.

[jansenboy 0]

A slightly better understanding of your situation. I thought you were aust citizen and Spore PR.

Since you suggest your brother is studying there. Personally don't think it make sense to sell as he would then have to fork out money to rent. Perhaps after he has finished his education would it be wiser to sell since your family will save money on the rental he would thus have to pay.

If u can afford it, perhaps buying private would be a better idea. Another alternative you can consider should be selling the property once you have no use for it (if your bro finished his education and not staying there anymore). Buy HDB using ur CPF and then wait 5 years before investing in private in Singapore.

As for you not renting out your place in Aust, you gotta understand that the Govt doesn't care...as far as they are concern, they can't let it be a case of people buying overseas (renting out for income). And then taking the rent money from overseas to pay for the installment for HDB and thus being able to afford more than they commonly should and jacking the price of HDB in the process. I guess their view also is that if you can afford a "holiday home" then you should not be one of those that need help even though like you stated it was ur parents that paid for it. Bopian. Unless you are willing to part with the home perhaps after your bro is done with his education.