Recommendation For A Decent Sound System.

[RimBlock 0]

More or less settled with Tannoy Mercury V4 setup. Just wondering if the surround is able to fit onto the top right side of this wall.

I would confirm the size and the requirement from the hanging brackets.

Some speakers just have a hole on the back so you can put a screw or two in the wall and hang them directly on the wall. This is fine if you want them plush with the wall and have the clearance but you are unable to angle them to the listening position.

Some brackets have a multidirectional arm and so you just need to confirm the clearance for the mounting plate (the bit that gets secured to the wall) and the space required for the arm to work as it needs too.

Don't forget that , depending on the weight and size of the speakers, you could always secure them to the ceiling. Doing so for small speakers near the wall should be no problem. Either spread the load with a bit of wood inside the ceiling for the screws to grip in to through the plaster board ceiling or use plaster board butterfly fixings which push through a drilled hole in the plasterboard and then a screw goes through the mounting plate and screws through the fixing which opens up the back to make a big flat area behind the plasterboard which will distribute the load.

RB

[Drexter 0]

I would confirm the size and the requirement from the hanging brackets.

Some speakers just have a hole on the back so you can put a screw or two in the wall and hang them directly on the wall. This is fine if you want them plush with the wall and have the clearance but you are unable to angle them to the listening position.

Some brackets have a multidirectional arm and so you just need to confirm the clearance for the mounting plate (the bit that gets secured to the wall) and the space required for the arm to work as it needs too.

Don't forget that , depending on the weight and size of the speakers, you could always secure them to the ceiling. Doing so for small speakers near the wall should be no problem. Either spread the load with a bit of wood inside the ceiling for the screws to grip in to through the plaster board ceiling or use plaster board butterfly fixings which push through a drilled hole in the plasterboard and then a screw goes through the mounting plate and screws through the fixing which opens up the back to make a big flat area behind the plasterboard which will distribute the load.

RB

Ok, so any speaker size fit that area, as long I get the right mounting bracket. So I guess I need a more than 7cm long bracket to extend it out from the wall and aircon trunking

[RimBlock 0]

Ok, so any speaker size fit that area, as long I get the right mounting bracket. So I guess I need a more than 7cm long bracket to extend it out from the wall and aircon trunking

Measure the space, take the photo and measurements to the shop when you go to buy and check before you pay would be the best solution. We can possibly find a solution if what you buy doesn't fit .

RB

[Drexter 0]

Measure the space, take the photo and measurements to the shop when you go to buy and check before you pay would be the best solution. We can possibly find a solution if what you buy doesn't fit .

RB

Cool, btw I might get the PC12 instead of SB12.

[RimBlock 0]

Either will be very good so it is just down to personal taste and aesthetics .

RB

[Drexter 0]

Either will be very good so it is just down to personal taste and aesthetics .

RB

Ya, haha I like the huge cylinder....

[Drexter 0]

Posted in another forum and many had recommended me to get the Onkyo 708/709 that supports a preamp out for future upgrade as my setups are all big items.

[RimBlock 0]

Posted in another forum and many had recommended me to get the Onkyo 708/709 that supports a preamp out for future upgrade as my setups are all big items.

It all really depends on how serious you are about it.

If you want to get a set-up and just keep it that way for the foreseeable future then why would you need preouts ?. If you plan to keep growing and improving the system then it sounds like a good idea. Picking up a Yamaha 667 would be cheaper with the same options though.

The question you may need to think about though is whether you think you will upgrade before some new formats come out. If new formats do come out there is a good chance you may need to upgrade the amp anyway so if you didn't get a power amp up until that point then spending the extra on the higher model for the preouts would have been wasted, at least in part.

If I wanted to add a power amp at some point and was buying now I would hunt around for a 667 again as I am very happy with mine and don't see the need to upgrade to a new model at a higher level just for preouts.

RB

[Drexter 0]

It all really depends on how serious you are about it.

If you want to get a set-up and just keep it that way for the foreseeable future then why would you need preouts ?. If you plan to keep growing and improving the system then it sounds like a good idea. Picking up a Yamaha 667 would be cheaper with the same options though.

The question you may need to think about though is whether you think you will upgrade before some new formats come out. If new formats do come out there is a good chance you may need to upgrade the amp anyway so if you didn't get a power amp up until that point then spending the extra on the higher model for the preouts would have been wasted, at least in part.

If I wanted to add a power amp at some point and was buying now I would hunt around for a 667 again as I am very happy with mine and don't see the need to upgrade to a new model at a higher level just for preouts.

RB

Another reason is whether the Onkyo 609 is able support the speakers. I am not sure about that, is there a formula to calculate?

[RimBlock 0]

Another reason is whether the Onkyo 609 is able support the speakers. I am not sure about that, is there a formula to calculate?

The Tannoy Mercury v4s are floor standers so I am guessing you are having them for the front, the VC for the center and the VRs for the rear speakers ?

If I am right about the speakers then their specs are (taken from here);

V4 - 8ohms, RMS 100W, recommended power RMS 10-140W, Peek power 200W

VC - 8OHMS, RMS 90W, recommended power RMS 10-90W, Peek power 140W

VR - 8OHMS, RMS 40W, recommended power RMS 10-60W, Peek power 80W

In the specs for the Onkyo 709, power available to the front speaker is listed here as (emphasis is mine);

110 W + 110 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz,

0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC)

So the amp will output a max of 110W per channel as long as you are only using 2 channels.

They also state that the dynamic power is;

250 W (3 ohms, 1 ch)

220 W (4 ohms, 1 ch)

130 W (8 ohms, 1 ch)

So the amp can manage 130w per channel of dynamic (changing frequency) power as long as only one channel is run at any one time.

Now look at the recommended impedance for the amplifier;

4 ohms–16 ohms

So, if they recommend only using speakers of 4-16 ohms impedance then why are they quoting ratings for 3 ohm output... It is all in the marketing.

Onkyo are not unique in this by any means, most if not all the manufacturers do it just like hard drive manufacturers still list the storage available on the disk in GB/TB using the 1 million bytes = 1MB rather than the correct 1,048,576bytes. It is commonly accepted that drive will be measured this was and when one manufacturer tried to report on the real value they saw sales drop as people though they were getting less storage for the same money. The difference with this and HiFi is that it is hard to tell and compare as most people will only have one system and it is their subjective hearing rather than black and white facts that is giving the results.

So what is the bottom line for this combination...

The max dynamic power of the amp is not high enough to fully drive the front speakers to their max. The only time you are likely to see this happen is playing particularly demanding music in stereo of in loud movies where the left and right sound channels are pushed hard.

Remembering that most of the sound comes out of the center speaker for movies, the amp should be able to drive that pretty well but may dip in power when other speakers are being pushed with effects. This just means they may not have so much punch or clarity as the power cannot be delivered to accurately reproduce the frequencies required at the volume desired.

With the 709 rated at just 10W above the 609, will it make that much difference ?. The Yamaha 667 only had 90W/channel (2 channel driven) but allows you to later add a power amp (or more than one if preferred) to increase the power output of your amp setup at a cheaper price but that may mean buying now with a view to upgrade in the future. The 709 is a step up so will be better now and allow a power amp add-on later but costs more. I would try to find a 667 and a 709 and demo them to see if the extra power at this level makes much difference to me.

Unless you are willing to spend quite a bit more on the amplification, you are unlikely to get much of a different result than getting a 609, 709 or 667. Try them out and take your pic. To match the speakers to the amp power you are probably looking at a minimum of around S$2k more and I would advise looking at that as a future upgrade unless you have cash to burn.

RB

[Drexter 0]

The Tannoy Mercury v4s are floor standers so I am guessing you are having them for the front, the VC for the center and the VRs for the rear speakers ?

If I am right about the speakers then their specs are (taken from here);

In the specs for the Onkyo 709, power available to the front speaker is listed here as (emphasis is mine);

So the amp will output a max of 110W per channel as long as you are only using 2 channels.

They also state that the dynamic power is;

So the amp can manage 130w per channel of dynamic (changing frequency) power as long as only one channel is run at any one time.

Now look at the recommended impedance for the amplifier;

So, if they recommend only using speakers of 4-16 ohms impedance then why are they quoting ratings for 3 ohm output... It is all in the marketing.

Onkyo are not unique in this by any means, most if not all the manufacturers do it just like hard drive manufacturers still list the storage available on the disk in GB/TB using the 1 million bytes = 1MB rather than the correct 1,048,576bytes. It is commonly accepted that drive will be measured this was and when one manufacturer tried to report on the real value they saw sales drop as people though they were getting less storage for the same money. The difference with this and HiFi is that it is hard to tell and compare as most people will only have one system and it is their subjective hearing rather than black and white facts that is giving the results.

So what is the bottom line for this combination...

The max dynamic power of the amp is not high enough to fully drive the front speakers to their max. The only time you are likely to see this happen is playing particularly demanding music in stereo of in loud movies where the left and right sound channels are pushed hard.

Remembering that most of the sound comes out of the center speaker for movies, the amp should be able to drive that pretty well but may dip in power when other speakers are being pushed with effects. This just means they may not have so much punch or clarity as the power cannot be delivered to accurately reproduce the frequencies required at the volume desired.

With the 709 rated at just 10W above the 609, will it make that much difference ?. The Yamaha 667 only had 90W/channel (2 channel driven) but allows you to later add a power amp (or more than one if preferred) to increase the power output of your amp setup at a cheaper price but that may mean buying now with a view to upgrade in the future. The 709 is a step up so will be better now and allow a power amp add-on later but costs more. I would try to find a 667 and a 709 and demo them to see if the extra power at this level makes much difference to me.

Unless you are willing to spend quite a bit more on the amplification, you are unlikely to get much of a different result than getting a 609, 709 or 667. Try them out and take your pic. To match the speakers to the amp power you are probably looking at a minimum of around S$2k more and I would advise looking at that as a future upgrade unless you have cash to burn.

RB

RB, thanks for your reply. If I buy bits and pieces from different places, is it very straightforward (by reading manual) that I can set-up(calibration?) myself? The reason why I narrowed down to these few brands also because I need the shop to set-up for me. As I am a newbie, I have no idea on how complex is the setting up process of HTS.

Reason being:

There are ppl who are selling Monitor Audio BX series, Emotiva(pre amp, power amp), etc. If I get resale products, with my budget I might be able to get a better system overall.

[RimBlock 0]

RB, thanks for your reply. If I buy bits and pieces from different places, is it very straightforward (by reading manual) that I can set-up(calibration?) myself? The reason why I narrowed down to these few brands also because I need the shop to set-up for me. As I am a newbie, I have no idea on how complex is the setting up process of HTS.

Reason being:

There are ppl who are selling Monitor Audio BX series, Emotiva(pre amp, power amp), etc. If I get resale products, with my budget I might be able to get a better system overall.

Putting it all together is not really harder than connecting your TV and DVD player. Follow the manuals for any switches you need to flip or settings changes you need to make and it should be pretty easy. Both Yamaha and Onkyo amps come with their own calibration routine so just place the supplied microphone and and follow the instructions. The results should be good for most although they can be improved upon with better calibration equipment. Of course how much of a difference it makes is again subjective. Devices like the Antimode are meant to make quite a big difference for subwoofers and may be worth looking in to if you want to get one step better than the AVRs own config.

If buying second hand, check reviews of the products, check the condition (check the speaker cones for the speakers after taking the grills off and binding posts on speakers / amps), have a demo to make sure it all sounds reasonable.

Looking at XP, someone was selling their Marantz SR6003, Wharfedale 9s and paradigm sub for 1.6k. Not a bad starter system although I would checkout the Marantz AVR if I was looking before committing. There was also a 5 channel power amp (Rotel) going for S$300, a couple of other Rotel amps floating around, some KEF KHT 3005 SEs for S$2k, not a lot in the way of AVRs though.

I would also be a little careful about the size / power of the speakers you get for the space you are in. In your floor plan / 3D the space seems quite compact like my 3 room living are was. Having demo'd some speakers at someone elses place where they had the same sized area but had the top of the range speakers I found the sound overwhelming and far too directional. The main sound came from the center speaker and not the screen for example. Sometimes less gives a better experience even though it may not be so impressive visibly. The Kef 3005s may do you well and just add an amp. You might want to see if you can knock the price down a little via PM though.

RB

[Drexter 0]

Side track. I just bought the following items. Getting ready.

The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition + Digital Copy) [b... by Elijah Wood http://t.co/zXvysiV via @amazon

Mediabridge Ultra Series - High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet - Category 2 Certified ... by Mediabridge http://t.co/MvSk6sm via @amazon

Edited July 1, 2011 by Drexter

[RimBlock 0]

Side track. I just bought the following items. Getting ready.

The Lord of the Rings: The Motion Picture Trilogy (Extended Edition + Digital Copy) [b... by Elijah Wood http://t.co/zXvysiV via @amazon

Mediabridge Ultra Series - High Speed HDMI Cable with Ethernet - Category 2 Certified ... by Mediabridge http://t.co/MvSk6sm via @amazon

Cool, a nice sensibly priced HDMI cable and I have been looking at the LOTR boxed set but it is really expensive so will wait for the buzz to die down a bit and for it to go on sale. Will be great with a HTS though . I just got an AC Ryan HD2 media player for the living room and it is going fine at the moment. Plays Bluray ISOs although only the movie, can do audio passthrough on HDMI so my amp can sort out the audio format, I can install my own hard drive and change it whenever I want and it has the video wall although I need to play around with it to get it working on network shares, probably by auto mounting the share at a OS level on the box. Like the other AC Ryan boxes it is easy to get in to and modify (at an operating system level) and unlike the gen 1 versions, has no problems streaming large files although I hear network transfers between a computer and the internal hard drive can be very slow but don't require this feature so am not bothered.

RB

[Drexter 0]

Cool, a nice sensibly priced HDMI cable and I have been looking at the LOTR boxed set but it is really expensive so will wait for the buzz to die down a bit and for it to go on sale. Will be great with a HTS though . I just got an AC Ryan HD2 media player for the living room and it is going fine at the moment. Plays Bluray ISOs although only the movie, can do audio passthrough on HDMI so my amp can sort out the audio format, I can install my own hard drive and change it whenever I want and it has the video wall although I need to play around with it to get it working on network shares, probably by auto mounting the share at a OS level on the box. Like the other AC Ryan boxes it is easy to get in to and modify (at an operating system level) and unlike the gen 1 versions, has no problems streaming large files although I hear network transfers between a computer and the internal hard drive can be very slow but don't require this feature so am not bothered.

RB

I just hope my neighbour dun complain when the evil march towards the good... LOLx