Recommendation For A Decent Sound System.

[Ely1 0]

Oh gawd, you guys.

We have a SVS PC-12 Ultra (Plus) and it's really HUGE. *sigh* Can't even use as a stool, so maybe a cat scratch post?

Size: 40-1/4" tall, 16-5/8" diameter.

Weight : 85 lbs

Fun, fun shifting into a walk-up apartment.

-Ely

[RimBlock 0]

Oh gawd, you guys.

We have a SVS PC-12 Ultra (Plus) and it's really HUGE. *sigh* Can't even use as a stool, so maybe a cat scratch post?

Size: 40-1/4" tall, 16-5/8" diameter.

Weight : 85 lbs

Fun, fun shifting into a walk-up apartment.

-Ely

Yep and the top is a metal mesh so you cannot put anything on top of it.

Definitely a big heavy space taker.... but a pretty one .

RB

[EmptyDivided 0]

Yeah I actually think the SVS cylinder subs looks cool. Even the B&W PV1 is a beaut! But at the end of the day, what really matters is hwta sounds good to our ears. The cool factor will loose if it just does not deliver the effects that our ears desire.(that's my opinion:))

Okay just to share some personal auditions I had with three subs. The CHT 8Q and SVS PB12 Plus were tried in KEC. Amp used was Onkyo 708. Speakers to match where WHarfedale floor standers.

CHT 8Q - I read some raving reviews and personal recommendations and endorsements from different sites about this. I went in with great expectations. I had Alan from KEC tuning the amp and sub, constantly. Somehow the CHT 8Q to me, was not accurate and extremely boomy. It was not precise and did not replicate sounds well.

I was disappointed.The only good thing about this sub was that it had a preset control to suit different needs and characteristics. But again Alan tried his best and we weren't able to achieve what I felt was passable.

CHT 10Q,- Then I thought about it logically. If I went up in size it may be boomier but the built in amp had more power. So i thought it might be more precise and less boomy. True enough it is less boomy and slightly more accurate but again I felt it was not worth the purchase to get s sub when it can't really replicate accurate bass notes, eg the helicopter blades churning thumps, the explosions. It sounds like what Ris Low says, it just goes 'boomz'. Sadness.

Went back to the computer, I decided to read AVS forum as Rimblock recommended and googled SVS. Again raving reviews. And price wise, it wasn't a huge killer, pending on which range you chose.

I went back to KEC (Kudos to KEC for their patience), I had the only choice of listening to the SVS pb 12 plus. If I closed my eyes, and if there were strong winds blowing, I would think a helicopter was actually was landing near me. It was realistic and it replicated well and the beats were timed perfect and accurate. Image merged well. I was impressed. Then suddenly came the downside. Price. $3000 plus. I always had to go like the "wrong" things.

Sadly I left. I knew my CFO will not endorse this purchase requisition. I was then recommended by a nice chap whom I bought the Oppo 93 from on where I can source used subs. I found an old chap who was giving up his hobby ( he matches the stereotype of a music audiophile, old, nothing else to do and have bottomless wallets to spend on heavenly equipment). I went his house, I was greeted by 1970 Altec Lansing horn speakers with 15 inch built in subwoofer(there were four of them) and they were powered by individual amplifier tube blocks! The horn tweeters reminded me of my school day assembly loudspeakers. Then he brought my wife and I into this small room which was his theatre where the PC12 Plus sat beside a huge screen and speakers. His flavour of theatre was clarity and accuracy. The sub was tuned for accurate beats that were gentle. (The typical american street thug with their muscle v8s, hydraulic suspensions and 1000 watts 15 inch subs would been laughing silly and questioning why bother to have a sub at all)

We played Fantastic four. Not impressive as it was not loud enough for my standards, bu then the imaging merged well and the accuracy was there. The bass did fill the room. Then the real reason came up why the built in amp was tuned this way, he listens to a young girl who sings with David Foster playing the piano every night. To him that was what he loved. And it did sound lovely, with the in focus projector. The beats again were accurate and it was not boomy. And futher more he dampened the two out of three holes to dampen the bass to be less boomy. Hearing the PB12 plus and now the PC12 ultra plus, I knew this will serve our needs and I paid less than what I initially has to pay for a CHT 8Q. The Sub was immaculate for its age(<5 years) the input gold plugs were till shiny, the rubber on the drivers did not look fatigued and worn.I bought it with my wife whom was reluctant about the size only. Luckily she liked the sound too. SVS cylinder subs as what the previous person has posted in my opinion is excellent. I lugged it with the poor old chap four storeys down, placed it in my small car and drove home a happy man.

SVS cylinder subs and and the pb 12 plus in my opinion are great subs. The accuracy, the amp matched well, the quality is great. This is my view. My advice, give this a chance and have a listen. Its worth the time.

Btw, the PV10s(B&W) are excellent too. If WAF is a huge issue and price insn't, go have a listen.

[mars73 0]

I also went to KEC for a quick test of the SVS spl800i, SB12-NSD, and velo 10q. The 800i had barely any effect. The velo (ported) was loud, but in an eardrum pressing sort of way. Quite uncomfortable imo, and i feel it detracts from the sonic experience as it interferes with my enjoyment of the other sounds.

The SB12-NSD was WOW. Tight and deep. Don't quite 'hear' it, but more of 'feeling' it in the chest and pants sort of way. Superb. After this test, I am convinced of the merits of a sealed design vs ported.

Saw the cylinder SVS but didnt bother trying, no point, will never get past the wife with that.

So it looks like the SB12 for me. Now I just have to tell my ID to customise a space at my tv console to accommodate the sub.

Also tried out the new Onkyo 709 vs Yamaha 667. Surprisingly, I found the Yamaha comparable to the Onkyo. Onkyo was slightly more visceral in terms of impact, but I feel Yamaha was smoother, esp with dialogue. Onkyo runs HOT, can feel the heat after a few min of playing.

One thing that bugs me is the Yamaha YPAO vs the Audyssey Multeq XT in Onkyo. The former looks rather 'basic', can only adjust speakers to large or small. Only other way to fine tune it further is through this frequency curve thingy which I have no confidence in getting right. The latter (Audyssey) can set specific crossover frequencies for each speaker. General feedback online seems to favour Audyssey vs YPAO.

[RimBlock 0]

Yeah I actually think the SVS cylinder subs looks cool. Even the B&W PV1 is a beaut! But at the end of the day, what really matters is hwta sounds good to our ears. The cool factor will loose if it just does not deliver the effects that our ears desire.(that's my opinion:))

.......

Btw, the PV10s(B&W) are excellent too. If WAF is a huge issue and price insn't, go have a listen.

ED:

Nice write-up.

Shame you didn't get a chance to listen to the SB12 though. The B&W PV1 is a strange one. Looks interesting but I was surprised at how small it was. It looked to me like a 8" sub like the Velodyne 8Q.

Seems there are a few of the PC-12s floating around now. Did you notice the difference considering the (probably) different amps on the new and older PC12 ?.

As you have said, different people like different types of sounds so I believe people should try the SB12 and the PC12 / PB12 if they get the chance.

RB

[RimBlock 0]

I also went to KEC for a quick test of the SVS spl800i, SB12-NSD, and velo 10q. The 800i had barely any effect. The velo (ported) was loud, but in an eardrum pressing sort of way. Quite uncomfortable imo, and i feel it detracts from the sonic experience as it interferes with my enjoyment of the other sounds.

Yeah I got that effect from the PC12 when demo'd at KEC. It is fine if you like to feel like you are in a fast lift going up and down continuity but I, like you, preferred a different experience from my sub.

The SB12-NSD was WOW. Tight and deep. Don't quite 'hear' it, but more of 'feeling' it in the chest and pants sort of way. Superb. After this test, I am convinced of the merits of a sealed design vs ported.

Oh I can assure you that you will hear it with deep passages . I was watching 'Clash of the Titans' and when the Kraken comes out and roars at the screen ...... just need someone to throw some water at us and it will be like one of the full experience cinema rides. What did you test it with movie wise ?

Saw the cylinder SVS but didnt bother trying, no point, will never get past the wife with that.

So it looks like the SB12 for me. Now I just have to tell my ID to customise a space at my tv console to accommodate the sub.

Just have to make sure you have some space around and nothing in front or close that will vibrate around .

Also tried out the new Onkyo 709 vs Yamaha 667. Surprisingly, I found the Yamaha comparable to the Onkyo. Onkyo was slightly more visceral in terms of impact, but I feel Yamaha was smoother, esp with dialogue. Onkyo runs HOT, can feel the heat after a few min of playing.

One thing that bugs me is the Yamaha YPAO vs the Audyssey Multeq XT in Onkyo. The former looks rather 'basic', can only adjust speakers to large or small. Only other way to fine tune it further is through this frequency curve thingy which I have no confidence in getting right. The latter (Audyssey) can set specific crossover frequencies for each speaker. General feedback online seems to favour Audyssey vs YPAO.

I find the Ypao is fine for me. I have used it in two amps now and am pretty happy with the result. I think I have to try Band of Brothers Ep2 when they come to the field howitzers. That is meant to be great for bass and also for the surround sound effects with bullets whizzing all around.

I would imagine it depends on how deep you want to fine tune the result .

RB

[EmptyDivided 0]

ED:

Nice write-up.

Shame you didn't get a chance to listen to the SB12 though. The B&W PV1 is a strange one. Looks interesting but I was surprised at how small it was. It looked to me like a 8" sub like the Velodyne 8Q.

Seems there are a few of the PC-12s floating around now. Did you notice the difference considering the (probably) different amps on the new and older PC12 ?.

As you have said, different people like different types of sounds so I believe people should try the SB12 and the PC12 / PB12 if they get the chance.

RB

Thanks RB. Yes it was a shame I could not listen to the SB 12. The day I went to KEC, a customer the night before apparently blasted and the driver broke.>< What bad luck.

I do advocate and agree about what you have said, trying everything you can if possible. I know it might sound bad and its like being a pain to the sales person, but ultimately, you want to get best what you like in your affordable range. Best bang for the buck literally.

I have not seen the new PC12 amps. During my read ups, it seems a re-occuring comment was that SVS was bought over and they didn't make subs like what they used to manufacture before. I am not too sure about the changes so I can't comment. But looking at what the rest are saying in the posts before, it seems they are still doing the right thing.

I just can't wait for next week when my new equipment arrives and is set up. The set up is 2 10.6s, with a 10cm, and 2 10.1 for back surround. Amp is the new Onkyo 609, I wish I could get the 709 but wallet constraints. Btw RB, I was also eyeing the evo centre speakers. the front port makes a huge difference on the delivery of dialogues. Sigh, CFO does not see value in that. There were Ushers centre speakers, two 5.25 drivers with two port front facing going new for $250, wife says its ugly. But guys, they normally cost $600. And if you like clear, sharp and very audible efficient centre speakers, go take a look at them. IMO excellent value for money.

Btw, if anyone is looking for a reasonably priced bookshelf speaker, give usher s520 a try. I ran it with a hybrid 13 watt amp, vocals, clarity and transparency to my unpolished ears, sounds fantastic. I paid less than $800 for this setup. I can assure you it sounds better than any commercial docks. And these ipod system docks are not cheap.

And I to declare I have no affiliations with Usher. I am a Phua Chu Kang, running around sites in safety boots, helmet and safety harnesses, hanging off gondolas and mast climbers to make a living. Thats why hearing music at home is a huge relaxation as compared to hearing hacking, drilling heavy machinery noises in bloody hot conditions.

RB, when my system is set up, you are welcome to have a listen and better advice me on how I can improve the placement on my speakers and how to tune my amp or even suggest in front of my wife if maybe I should add pre amps if I do need them. hahahah. Its like opening a can of worms. Never know when to stop. Hows your sub going? Finish running them in yet?

[Drexter 0]

Thanks RB. Yes it was a shame I could not listen to the SB 12. The day I went to KEC, a customer the night before apparently blasted and the driver broke.>< What bad luck.

I do advocate and agree about what you have said, trying everything you can if possible. I know it might sound bad and its like being a pain to the sales person, but ultimately, you want to get best what you like in your affordable range. Best bang for the buck literally.

I have not seen the new PC12 amps. During my read ups, it seems a re-occuring comment was that SVS was bought over and they didn't make subs like what they used to manufacture before. I am not too sure about the changes so I can't comment. But looking at what the rest are saying in the posts before, it seems they are still doing the right thing.

I just can't wait for next week when my new equipment arrives and is set up. The set up is 2 10.6s, with a 10cm, and 2 10.1 for back surround. Amp is the new Onkyo 609, I wish I could get the 709 but wallet constraints. Btw RB, I was also eyeing the evo centre speakers. the front port makes a huge difference on the delivery of dialogues. Sigh, CFO does not see value in that. There were Ushers centre speakers, two 5.25 drivers with two port front facing going new for $250, wife says its ugly. But guys, they normally cost $600. And if you like clear, sharp and very audible efficient centre speakers, go take a look at them. IMO excellent value for money.

Btw, if anyone is looking for a reasonably priced bookshelf speaker, give usher s520 a try. I ran it with a hybrid 13 watt amp, vocals, clarity and transparency to my unpolished ears, sounds fantastic. I paid less than $800 for this setup. I can assure you it sounds better than any commercial docks. And these ipod system docks are not cheap.

And I to declare I have no affiliations with Usher. I am a Phua Chu Kang, running around sites in safety boots, helmet and safety harnesses, hanging off gondolas and mast climbers to make a living. Thats why hearing music at home is a huge relaxation as compared to hearing hacking, drilling heavy machinery noises in bloody hot conditions.

RB, when my system is set up, you are welcome to have a listen and better advice me on how I can improve the placement on my speakers and how to tune my amp or even suggest in front of my wife if maybe I should add pre amps if I do need them. hahahah. Its like opening a can of worms. Never know when to stop. Hows your sub going? Finish running them in yet?

How much your system cost? Am I welcome to listen also? hehe....

[Drexter 0]

RB,

I read your previous post that cables get from Amazon cheaper. Should I get now, as it takes few weeks for them to ship... What are the cables/connectors to get, length?

[mars73 0]

Yeah I got that effect from the PC12 when demo'd at KEC. It is fine if you like to feel like you are in a fast lift going up and down continuity but I, like you, preferred a different experience from my sub.

Oh I can assure you that you will hear it with deep passages . I was watching 'Clash of the Titans' and when the Kraken comes out and roars at the screen ...... just need someone to throw some water at us and it will be like one of the full experience cinema rides. What did you test it with movie wise ?

This is embarassing cos I can't remember the movie's name for the life of me... It's a Bruce Willis movie, could be the latest Die Hard, scene was where Willis was driving a truck and being chased down by a fighter jet ordered to blast him into bits. The jet pretty ended up blasting up half the city trying to get him =)

Just have to make sure you have some space around and nothing in front or close that will vibrate around .

Funny you should say this. When Jack (KEC) and I were testing the SB12, the room was shaking so much, one of the covers of the ProCinema satellites dropped off the speaker in front of us. We just turned to each other and grinned. Priceless moment

I find the Ypao is fine for me. I have used it in two amps now and am pretty happy with the result. I think I have to try Band of Brothers Ep2 when they come to the field howitzers. That is meant to be great for bass and also for the surround sound effects with bullets whizzing all around.

I would imagine it depends on how deep you want to fine tune the result .

RB

I have the series too. But I think my current HTIB can't bring out the oomph in that scene.

So for the YPAO, you just let it auto setup and no tweaks thereafter?

[RimBlock 0]

Thanks RB. Yes it was a shame I could not listen to the SB 12. The day I went to KEC, a customer the night before apparently blasted and the driver broke.>< What bad luck.

Shame as it is very good and takes a pretty small footprint for the sound it produces.

I have not seen the new PC12 amps. During my read ups, it seems a re-occuring comment was that SVS was bought over and they didn't make subs like what they used to manufacture before. I am not too sure about the changes so I can't comment. But looking at what the rest are saying in the posts before, it seems they are still doing the right thing.

Again I think these things are pretty subjective. My sub sounds great to me. The PB13-plus with the 100W amp sounded better... at a cost of over twice the price. Was it twice as good.... not to me but I sure it will be to some.

I just can't wait for next week when my new equipment arrives and is set up. The set up is 2 10.6s, with a 10cm, and 2 10.1 for back surround. Amp is the new Onkyo 609, I wish I could get the 709 but wallet constraints.

Yeah, it is that itchy feeling waiting for the new big buys. Not wanting the itchy feeling was partly why I got the SB12... I could walk out of the shop with it straight away . The 609 should be very nice and did the 709 really offer that much better sound or functions to justify the cost to you. The big difference to me of the 667 and the 767 was the 767 had two HDMI outs (one for the TV and one for the projector). I got the 667 and finally found a HDMI splitter for 1/4 the difference in price between the 667 and 767. The Wharfedales should not disappoint.

Btw RB, I was also eyeing the evo centre speakers. the front port makes a huge difference on the delivery of dialogues. Sigh, CFO does not see value in that. There were Ushers centre speakers, two 5.25 drivers with two port front facing going new for $250, wife says its ugly.

The Evo would be a nice step up from the Diamond 10 series and someone was selling one for S$350 on XP. What center did you get, the CC or CS or even the CM ?. I heard my sub with the Def Tech floorstanders and long center and was not really too impressed. I think it was partly due to the speakers I have at home spoiling me a bit and the fact they were probability not setup correctly.

RB, when my system is set up, you are welcome to have a listen and better advice me on how I can improve the placement on my speakers and how to tune my amp or even suggest in front of my wife if maybe I should add pre amps if I do need them. hahahah. Its like opening a can of worms. Never know when to stop. Hows your sub going? Finish running them in yet?

Think you need to bring your wife to a movie night at mine first and then you can try to convince her to get a projector . Worked for csingeu .

You are welcome to come round too for a listen and watch and maybe we can pop to yours when you get your stuff. Same is true for others by appointment. No charge apart from drinks and popcorn . Let me know if you are interested.

RB

[RimBlock 0]

RB,

I read your previous post that cables get from Amazon cheaper. Should I get now, as it takes few weeks for them to ship... What are the cables/connectors to get, length?

Delivery should take a wee or just a bit more. Should be under two weeks but you need to use something like vPost or Borderlinx.

It really depends on what you are buying and how you will be arranging it as to what cables you need. Without knowing the equipment and layout there is no way of knowing what you should get.

I would advise getting your equipment first and using nay old cheap cables. Once it is setup, live with the cheap cables whilst you order new ones to replace them. You will also appreciate the difference when they arrive if you notice it.

You could possibly get a cable from the amp to the tv (HDMI - Amazon basics) but the length depends on how far from the TV the amp will be. You could also get another from the Bluray player to the amp if you are having one.

Past that I cannot advise what to get without knowing what you are buying / have.

RB

[Drexter 0]

Delivery should take a wee or just a bit more. Should be under two weeks but you need to use something like vPost or Borderlinx.

It really depends on what you are buying and how you will be arranging it as to what cables you need. Without knowing the equipment and layout there is no way of knowing what you should get.

I would advise getting your equipment first and using nay old cheap cables. Once it is setup, live with the cheap cables whilst you order new ones to replace them. You will also appreciate the difference when they arrive if you notice it.

You could possibly get a cable from the amp to the tv (HDMI - Amazon basics) but the length depends on how far from the TV the amp will be. You could also get another from the Bluray player to the amp if you are having one.

Past that I cannot advise what to get without knowing what you are buying / have.

RB

Roger... I am a regular vPost customer...

[Drexter 0]

Any comments for the following layout? I have to integrate my HTS room with a study.

[RimBlock 0]

This is embarassing cos I can't remember the movie's name for the life of me... It's a Bruce Willis movie, could be the latest Die Hard, scene was where Willis was driving a truck and being chased down by a fighter jet ordered to blast him into bits. The jet pretty ended up blasting up half the city trying to get him =)

Ok, so Die Hard 4 then .

Funny you should say this. When Jack (KEC) and I were testing the SB12, the room was shaking so much, one of the covers of the ProCinema satellites dropped off the speaker in front of us. We just turned to each other and grinned. Priceless moment

Haha, now to get to the next level.....

(about 40s in).

I have the series too. But I think my current HTIB can't bring out the oomph in that scene.

So for the YPAO, you just let it auto setup and no tweaks thereafter?

Since my reno is not complete yet, I have not finally setup everything. The L/R fronts need moving after they have painted the wall to the left side again. I don't expect startling differences though. The SPL details and delay timings should give an idea if the speakers are misaligned to the central listening position. If you have not got a decent sound pressure meter then it will be difficult to make meaningful adjustments as you are back to subjective listening and human memory not being so good for retaining accurate information on past images and sounds (at great detail).

Saying that, moving closer / further from walls should change the bass effect of speakers. Other tweeks can provide changes but the fine tuning is difficult. I may have a play with my sub as I have just set it to default values and am pretty happy. Might see what differences I can make .

RB