Recommendation For A Decent Sound System.

[mars73 0]

A decent HiFi shop should have runs of commonly bought cables on hand for demoing.

Strange, the M1s can also be bought as singles in the UK. Not sure why dealers here are not doing the same.

Yes I am in the same position so I know your pain. What you need to remember is that the rear sides in a 7.1 setup act as the rears in a 5.1 setup. I used a couple of speaker brackets and hung some small speakers from the light box. Using the correct butterfly fittings the light box happily takes the weight. I am in the process of changing these for either bipole speakers like the Wharfedale 10.dfs or discrete speakers like the Linn Classik Unik (formally known as the AV5110s). Both are within budget, the Linns are a slim profile and white whilst the Wharfedales are fairly slim but will bounce the sound around a lot more as they fire in two directions. The Kef T101/T103s also seem to be getting good feedback and are more or less flat panels.

Stability is probably a leading concern. As the cones move, the less stable the speaker, the more that movement is distorted. Fixing to good stands or directly to a wall limits the movement. Are you not able to fix to a beam ?.

Recessed speakers would probably be your last choice but are a lot more wife friendly. You can happily mix and match but audition to make sure you are happy with the pairing.

I would probably advise going for half on the fronts and centre. The left and right obviously for music and the centre as being the most important for movies. Two thirds of the rest on the amp and the remaining third on the rears.

So for 3k,

1.5k on the fronts and centre.

1k on the amp.

300 for the side rears

200 on the rears.

B&W 685s are very highly recommended in the press and by users here (291 pages of feedback from users).

The 1K should get you the Onkyo 608/609 (when it arrives in Singapore) or the Yammy 667.

You could get a reasonable entry level speaker for the rear sides and a small bookshelf one for the rears. If you want to go only for 5.1 at this moment the the full 500 can go on the rears (5.1 rears not 7.1 rears).

Cable needs to be factored, speaker stands or mounting brackets, as does the install if you want a shop to set it up. 3K may be a bit tight for this level. Dropping down a level to the 508/509 or the Yamaha 567 will give more breathing room.

The main question though is this.... Are you a consumer, an enthusiast or an audiophile.

I would peg you as an enthusiast like myself. Interested in having a good setup on a budget and willing to do some research and buy components rather than an off the shelf setup. A consumer will usually go for an off the shelf package and for an audiophile music is a passion and its accurate representation is the main goal and the smallest nuances of equipment will cause unacceptable colouration. An audiophile would not be asking about audio recommendations on a renovation forum but would go to a music enthusiasts forum where much more knowledgeable people are likely to be.

RB

Thank you. After the quick run in Adelphi, I've decided to up my budget to $4k =) You're exactly right - I guess I'm an enthusiast - with a budget.

Btw, the shops in Adelphi are quoting about $670 for the Onkyo 608 (except E77 which quoted me >$1k!). I just called E77 again. They estimated a 5.1 set up based on 2x685 (front), 2xM1 (rear), HTM 62 (Centre) and ASW610 comes up to about $3.5k, before package discount. This means the total with amp will exceed $4k by a wee bit. Sigh, this is poisonous. But when I listened to the 685s on audio there was a world of difference from the rest I've heard.

Keith (E77) also mentioned that it might still be ok for me to mount my rears on the rear wall (about 2.5m away).

What do you think of this set up? Is the sub good enough or should I switch it for a Velodyne or SVS?

I'm also curious about using an equivalent KEF set up - KEF Q300 in front, with KHT satellites in rear.

[RimBlock 0]

Tannoy is superior to B&W for music while B&W is more for AV, especially so for the lower range models.

as for cables, you'll be safe buying American ones and avoid British ones.

however, avoid Monster Cable.

Interesting as both Tannoy and B&W are both British brands along with Monitor Audio. Also interesting is in your British HiFi hatred, you also failed to note that B&W is owned by an American (Joe Atkins) although it is still seen as a British brand and has its head office and research centres in the UK.

Seriously your anti British HiFi sentiment extends to cables as well. You are trying to state that for this level of HiFi cables marketed by US company's are significantly better than British ones. The vast majority of cables are made in China regardless of the company marketing them. Suggesting that a S$7/mtr US cable is significantly better than a S$7/mtr British cable is laughable just as much as suggesting the British cable is so much better than the US cable. At this level the vast majority would be happy with a S$2/mtr cable.

At this point you are certainly coming over to me as an anti-British troll. Recently joined the community here, throwing around sweeping statements directed at only British HiFi without anything to back them up and some of which have been easily proved to be false. Stating ridiculous things like a cable manufactured in China will be worse because of the nationality of the company marketing it. Of course you could prove me completely wrong by posting reasonable evidence backing up the claims you are making as statements of fact. You are of course entitled to your opinion and if it is your opinion you are trying to get across then I would have nothing to say but you are putting everything across as fact and not opinion.

Mars, ask to audition the Chord Carnival and ask the shop to suggest one or two other brands around the same level and make up your own mind. Don't be put off by some unknown internet voice with a clear agenda against anything HiFi that is British. Next they will be suggesting not to buy British banana plugs, speaker stands or speaker spikes for no reason other than they say so with no evidence that what they say has any basis in reality.

Takes all sorts to make the world. Whilst opinions may vary but facts stay the same .

RB

Edited March 11, 2011 by RimBlock

[RimBlock 0]

Thank you. After the quick run in Adelphi, I've decided to up my budget to $4k =) You're exactly right - I guess I'm an enthusiast - with a budget.

Btw, the shops in Adelphi are quoting about $670 for the Onkyo 608 (except E77 which quoted me >$1k!). I just called E77 again. They estimated a 5.1 set up based on 2x685 (front), 2xM1 (rear), HTM 62 (Centre) and ASW610 comes up to about $3.5k, before package discount. This means the total with amp will exceed $4k by a wee bit. Sigh, this is poisonous. But when I listened to the 685s on audio there was a world of difference from the rest I've heard.

Keith (E77) also mentioned that it might still be ok for me to mount my rears on the rear wall (about 2.5m away).

What do you think of this set up? Is the sub good enough or should I switch it for a Velodyne or SVS?

I'm also curious about using an equivalent KEF set up - KEF Q300 in front, with KHT satellites in rear.

Another two setups you may want to look at are the Monitor Audio BX2s and the Q-Audio 2000 series. Both will be cheaper and it is up to you to decide if the savings are worth the difference in sound quality. Both have quite a following and are commonly suggested for packages. For the money, the B&Ws are touted as being very good, this is also true on the subs as well. Did you try to audition without the sub ?. Maybe see how big a difference it will make. Remember to factor in the cables, stands or brackets etc in the final price.

My guess the 608 is heavily discounted to clear stock for the 609 release.

Are you able to demo with the rears being 2.5 meters away ?. I would have thought you would be ok but it is, at the end of the day, your ears, your money and can be a very personal thing . This si why I am happy to suggest or steer but always make it clear nothing beats a good demo. You have been doing this so you are clearly going in the right direction.

It also depends on what you like to play. Classical, pop, rock ?. What sort of movies do you like. I was watching the V for Vendetta bluray last night and the talking from V is very soft so it needs a bit of power. Some of the scenes are very strong though. The scene when Evi comes out in tot he rain no longer scared of dying is fantastic for surround sound with the water, flames and music all around. Behind enemy lines has a missile chase scene witch is also very good for surround sound. Saving Private Ryan is also highly rated and War of the Worlds is a suggestion for testing out that bass. What have you been demoing with ?

RB

[RimBlock 0]

2. I intend to ask the contractor to pre-lay the cables for the speakers. What kind of cables should I use to be 'future proof'? Don't want to hack out the ceiling later.

Just picked up on this again.

If you have any thoughts on adding a projector at a later stage, lay either a long HDMI cable (check amazon for reasonable prices but make sure you get a high speed cable) or a couple of cat5e cables as you can get a HDMI to cat5e converter at a later date if needed (most require two cat5e cables to work).

I bought the Epson 3500 (recently superseded) plus screen for just over 2.7k and it is by far one of the best purchases I have made.

Lay the ground work now with the cables if you are also doing speaker cables or you may regret it later. Yes I am speaking from experience as I have layed my own speaker cables and HDMI cable .

RB

[farkingnuts 0]

Which cables are American? Seems like most of the ones mentioned here are British...

British cables are used by hifi beginners, you'll hardly read about any high-end hifi users using British cables.

considering you're not going to spend a lot on cables, try brands like Klotz (German), Canare or Mogami - after all, most cables are made in China or Taiwan anyway.

sometimes the cables are made by the same OEM manufacturer can simply re-branded as brand A and brand B.

[farkingnuts 0]

Clearly rubbish again if people take the time to position them correctly. The sound dynamics of your room will have an influence on the sound coming out of your speakers and should be noted. Take note of the positioning advice provided by the manufacturer before buying. Claiming that, for example, taking a speaker from a small demo room and putting it in an open plan area at home with adequate space around the speaker will cause a bigger boomy effect is just plain wrong. If anything the open space will have an effect of lightening the bass response. As Mars has mentioned that he has no wall for side mounting, it is pretty obvious that his listening area is likely to be open and not a closed room. Pushing speakers closer to the walls will intensify the bass possibly to a level of distortion.

Mars, if possible ask for speaker placement as close as possible to how they will be put at home for the demo. If you will be placing away from walls then have the demo with the speakers roughly the same distance from the walls. If you need to place closer at home then ask for the demo speakers to be placed closer to the walls. Your demo, your money, the shop should be able to accommodate any reasonable request. Also note that the speakers demo'd will be 'run-in' and will also most likely sound different from a new set. The new set will come closer as usage increases and then level out. If you google running in speakers you should be able to get some good suggestions.

It is also worth noting that the best position for speaker in an musical setup is not always the best position for movie surround sound. For most people this will not be a factor.

RB

if a speaker has poor boomy bloated bass, positioning will not solve your problems but only reduce it.

ask yourself, how far can you possible place your speakers from the rear and side walls ?

you'll need to have the floors carpeted and walls draped with curtains or even have bass traps in the corners to deal with boomy bass - THAT'S WHY SHOWROOMS HAVE THEM !

the B&W 6-series are more for AV...................period.

many years ago when i first started on hifi, i had the B&W 6-series too and they were better at music than the new ones!

[farkingnuts 0]

Interesting as both Tannoy and B&W are both British brands along with Monitor Audio. Also interesting is in your British HiFi hatred, you also failed to note that B&W is owned by an American (Joe Atkins) although it is still seen as a British brand and has its head office and research centres in the UK.

Seriously your anti British HiFi sentiment extends to cables as well. You are trying to state that for this level of HiFi cables marketed by US company's are significantly better than British ones. The vast majority of cables are made in China regardless of the company marketing them. Suggesting that a S$7/mtr US cable is significantly better than a S$7/mtr British cable is laughable just as much as suggesting the British cable is so much better than the US cable. At this level the vast majority would be happy with a S$2/mtr cable.

At this point you are certainly coming over to me as an anti-British troll. Recently joined the community here, throwing around sweeping statements directed at only British HiFi without anything to back them up and some of which have been easily proved to be false. Stating ridiculous things like a cable manufactured in China will be worse because of the nationality of the company marketing it. Of course you could prove me completely wrong by posting reasonable evidence backing up the claims you are making as statements of fact. You are of course entitled to your opinion and if it is your opinion you are trying to get across then I would have nothing to say but you are putting everything across as fact and not opinion.

Mars, ask to audition the Chord Carnival and ask the shop to suggest one or two other brands around the same level and make up your own mind. Don't be put off by some unknown internet voice with a clear agenda against anything HiFi that is British. Next they will be suggesting not to buy British banana plugs, speaker stands or speaker spikes for no reason other than they say so with no evidence that what they say has any basis in reality.

Takes all sorts to make the world. Whilst opinions may vary but facts stay the same .

RB

the British brands are all overhyped by their magazines that will gladly give all kinds of star reviews foir the right price !

the hifi industry is mostly about marketing !

only audiophiles with years of experience will realize this and pick out the right brands to buy.

BRITISH CABLES - tell you what, go take a $300 interconnect/speaker cables and go compare with an American brand like Nordost or Kimber or whatever well-known US brand at 1/3 the price and see for yourself !

BRITISH SPEAKERS - since you talk about Tannoy, B&W and Monitor Audio >

Tannoy is definitely more refined than B&W at the budget price range, as for Monitor Audio - it is no longer as good as in the past but will have better treble and midrange than B&W

B&W 6-series floorstanders are for bass freaks - great for movies and pop music only!

GO TRY B&W 6-SERIES FLOORSTANDERS WITH A SUB-$1000 RECEIVER AND YOU'LL SEE.

no point hearing them with good electronics when you're not gonna be doing that at home!

Edited March 11, 2011 by farkingnuts

[RimBlock 0]

the British brands are all overhyped by their magazines that will gladly give all kinds of star reviews foir the right price !

the hifi industry is mostly about marketing !

Why would you expect it to be any different to just about any industry selling stuff

I am aware that WhatHiFi is no longer considered reliable due to accusations that they were giving in to advertisers with ratings. If you are basing your anti-British HiFi sentiment on this then it would seem that in your mind, no British HiFi could ever get a good score as you would believe the score is falsely boosted. Clearly that is wrong and the reason that someone who is looking to buy needs to check forums for user comments and not just magazine reviews. Dismissing all British HiFi out of hand is just plain silly.

only audiophiles with years of experience will realize this and pick out the right brands to buy.

Sorry but I have to disagree. It is like asking a F1 driver what car to drive to work. Peoples needs vary as do their environments and available finances. Sure a F1 car would be great but not obtainable for most with a other concerns. Balanced suggestions would be welcomed but it is up to the driver to go and find what fits them best and not have a F1 drive pick the car and then have to fit yourself to it.

BRITISH CABLES - tell you what, go take a $300 interconnect/speaker cables and go compare with an American brand like Nordost or Kimber or whatever well-known US brand at 1/3 the price and see for yourself !

Are you for real ?. Are you suggesting Mars should spend S$300/mtr on speaker cable or even S$150/mtr ? Where has this S$300 come from ??. Kimber is certainly well regarded, Nordst I have not dealt with so cannot comment. Taking an interconnect cable costing 1/3 the price of the amp you are connecting it too is really a waste of money, better to get a better amp. I am soal surprised that as you apparently speak for audiophiles, you have not made the point that a decent stereo amp for less money than the AV will produce much better music.

BRITISH SPEAKERS - since you talk about Tannoy, B&W and Monitor Audio >

Tannoy is definitely more refined than B&W at the budget price range, as for Monitor Audio - it is no longer as good as in the past but will have better treble and midrange than B&W

B&W 6-series floorstanders are for bass freaks - great for movies and pop music only!

GO TRY B&W 6-SERIES FLOORSTANDERS WITH A SUB-$1000 RECEIVER AND YOU'LL SEE.

Well I guess that also depends on the partnered equipment, set-up of the amp, speaker placement and acoustics of the listening area. It is also interesting to note that originally you stated the 685s are 'the BOOMING bass will be so OVER-BLOATED i doubt you'll hear any details at all !' and now you seem only to be talking about the 6 series floor standers.

no point hearing them with good electronics when you're not gonna be doing that at home!

Something we both agree on although I think we have different views on at which level good sits in the scale of things.

RB

[rmgthatsme 0]

@ the original poster

It makes me smile to see that whenever people get to talking about hifi, things can rapidly get very heated.

Here's my take having done my bit of research a few years back, listened to alot of different kit in Hong Kong where I lived at the time and ended up buying NHTs driven by Cambridge Audio hardware:

Never get into a discussion about cables; those that take the hobby very seriously are either cable zealots who swear they can hear differences and those that say this is rubbish. My answer is, try it yourself at an audio shop; try crappy electrical lamp type wire vs a several hundred bucks version. Don't let the salesman touch anything other than the wires and listen for yourself, if you can hear a difference, you've found another avenue to spend money happily. Thankfully I couldn't tell the difference so could spend my money on other parts of my kit.

With regard to speakers, again listen to stuff in your price bracket; ignore the salesman and let your ears decide. If you can't find anything suitable in your price bracket I would be surprised because you are unlikely to be used to listening to anything "better" unless your family/friends have great systems which you frequently listen to, in which case bad luck, sell your car/house etc. in pursuit of sound perfection. Do bring your own stuff to listen to and watch as you rarely find any system great for all uses. My NHT floor standers have, to my ear, lovely clear sound for the music I like and give reasonable bass effects for movies with no need for a sub. My home theatre is in my basement in an area about 12ft wide by 40 ft long. (btw Velodyne does do a great sub but if living in an apartment maybe that isn't too great an idea if you want to be a reasonable neighbour.)

My very unsexy suggestion is start cheap and have fun. Audiophiles are notoriously fickle and always chasing the next great thing. Profit from this and buy 2 - 3 year old kit from these guys at stupidly discounted prices. You can audition it in their homes which could be a similar size to yours and if you hear something you like, buy it and take it away. Get fed up with it or fancy a change, sell it on and get another set second hand. It's a great way to have fun, learn, meet some people with the same hobby too.

Oh, last bit of unasked for wisdom, buy the best amp you can afford as the heart of your system, I use one to drive my floor standers and another for the surround and the center...this is certainly where second hand can pick you up incredibly expensive/exotic stuff for stupidly low money because the guys who can buy this stuff often buy it for bragging rights and when the next cool thing comes along, they have to sell to keep up appearances...be smart and enjoy. Hope my not too serious approach doesn't offend but in all honesty, it's not a religion, it's just entertainment. Have fun mate!

[csingeu 0]

@ the original poster

It makes me smile to see that whenever people get to talking about hifi, things can rapidly get very heated.

Here's my take having done my bit of research a few years back, listened to alot of different kit in Hong Kong where I lived at the time and ended up buying NHTs driven by Cambridge Audio hardware:

Never get into a discussion about cables; those that take the hobby very seriously are either cable zealots who swear they can hear differences and those that say this is rubbish. My answer is, try it yourself at an audio shop; try crappy electrical lamp type wire vs a several hundred bucks version. Don't let the salesman touch anything other than the wires and listen for yourself, if you can hear a difference, you've found another avenue to spend money happily. Thankfully I couldn't tell the difference so could spend my money on other parts of my kit.

With regard to speakers, again listen to stuff in your price bracket; ignore the salesman and let your ears decide. If you can't find anything suitable in your price bracket I would be surprised because you are unlikely to be used to listening to anything "better" unless your family/friends have great systems which you frequently listen to, in which case bad luck, sell your car/house etc. in pursuit of sound perfection. Do bring your own stuff to listen to and watch as you rarely find any system great for all uses. My NHT floor standers have, to my ear, lovely clear sound for the music I like and give reasonable bass effects for movies with no need for a sub. My home theatre is in my basement in an area about 12ft wide by 40 ft long. (btw Velodyne does do a great sub but if living in an apartment maybe that isn't too great an idea if you want to be a reasonable neighbour.)

My very unsexy suggestion is start cheap and have fun. Audiophiles are notoriously fickle and always chasing the next great thing. Profit from this and buy 2 - 3 year old kit from these guys at stupidly discounted prices. You can audition it in their homes which could be a similar size to yours and if you hear something you like, buy it and take it away. Get fed up with it or fancy a change, sell it on and get another set second hand. It's a great way to have fun, learn, meet some people with the same hobby too.

Oh, last bit of unasked for wisdom, buy the best amp you can afford as the heart of your system, I use one to drive my floor standers and another for the surround and the center...this is certainly where second hand can pick you up incredibly expensive/exotic stuff for stupidly low money because the guys who can buy this stuff often buy it for bragging rights and when the next cool thing comes along, they have to sell to keep up appearances...be smart and enjoy. Hope my not too serious approach doesn't offend but in all honesty, it's not a religion, it's just entertainment. Have fun mate!

If there's a "like" button for your post (like in Facebook or wat), I would have "like" it.

[RimBlock 0]

@ the original poster

It makes me smile to see that whenever people get to talking about hifi, things can rapidly get very heated.

Here's my take having done my bit of research a few years back, listened to alot of different kit in Hong Kong where I lived at the time and ended up buying NHTs driven by Cambridge Audio hardware:

Never get into a discussion about cables; those that take the hobby very seriously are either cable zealots who swear they can hear differences and those that say this is rubbish. My answer is, try it yourself at an audio shop; try crappy electrical lamp type wire vs a several hundred bucks version. Don't let the salesman touch anything other than the wires and listen for yourself, if you can hear a difference, you've found another avenue to spend money happily. Thankfully I couldn't tell the difference so could spend my money on other parts of my kit.

With regard to speakers, again listen to stuff in your price bracket; ignore the salesman and let your ears decide. If you can't find anything suitable in your price bracket I would be surprised because you are unlikely to be used to listening to anything "better" unless your family/friends have great systems which you frequently listen to, in which case bad luck, sell your car/house etc. in pursuit of sound perfection. Do bring your own stuff to listen to and watch as you rarely find any system great for all uses. My NHT floor standers have, to my ear, lovely clear sound for the music I like and give reasonable bass effects for movies with no need for a sub. My home theatre is in my basement in an area about 12ft wide by 40 ft long. (btw Velodyne does do a great sub but if living in an apartment maybe that isn't too great an idea if you want to be a reasonable neighbour.)

Agree fully with all of that

My very unsexy suggestion is start cheap and have fun. Audiophiles are notoriously fickle and always chasing the next great thing. Profit from this and buy 2 - 3 year old kit from these guys at stupidly discounted prices. You can audition it in their homes which could be a similar size to yours and if you hear something you like, buy it and take it away. Get fed up with it or fancy a change, sell it on and get another set second hand. It's a great way to have fun, learn, meet some people with the same hobby too.

Seems to be a very small second hand market for HiFi in Singapore though unless I have not discovered it . Any pointers ?

Oh, last bit of unasked for wisdom, buy the best amp you can afford as the heart of your system,

This is the other train of thought and is very valid. I personally would still stick to the ratios I mentioned as amp change at a rapid pace as technology changes. In the last 3 years there has been the rise of HDMI as a primary connection method, HDMI 1.4 with 3D, audio return and ethernet. Just like the D-SLR camera market, you spend the money on great lenses and buy a good body as the body will become outdated far quicker than the lenses and the lenses can be used with a new body.

I use one to drive my floor standers and another for the surround and the center...this is certainly where second hand can pick you up incredibly expensive/exotic stuff for stupidly low money because the guys who can buy this stuff often buy it for bragging rights and when the next cool thing comes along, they have to sell to keep up appearances...be smart and enjoy.

Out of interest what are you using ?. If you are using two amps then you are presumably using a seperate pre-amp / decoder and splitting the output to the two power amps ?.

Hope my not too serious approach doesn't offend but in all honesty, it's not a religion, it's just entertainment. Have fun mate!

Absolutely.

RB

[rmgthatsme 0]

Agree fully with all of that

Seems to be a very small second hand market for HiFi in Singapore though unless I have not discovered it . Any pointers ?

This is the other train of thought and is very valid. I personally would still stick to the ratios I mentioned as amp change at a rapid pace as technology changes. In the last 3 years there has been the rise of HDMI as a primary connection method, HDMI 1.4 with 3D, audio return and ethernet. Just like the D-SLR camera market, you spend the money on great lenses and buy a good body as the body will become outdated far quicker than the lenses and the lenses can be used with a new body.

Out of interest what are you using ?. If you are using two amps then you are presumably using a seperate pre-amp / decoder and splitting the output to the two power amps ?.

Absolutely.

RB

Hi RB,

as you can tell, I'm not one of the religious faithful All my component kit is Cambridge Audio but it's 4 years ago I bought this stuff so forgive me for not having the model numbers to hand. Yes you're right on the pre-amp set up.

My set up is not HDMI (well it's pass through so doesn't make a diff). MY POV is that for the money the average bloke spends on kit, he might as well buy decent 2nd hand stuff. I do understand that this is very personal; bit like cars really where some people like me wouldn't ever touch a new car (daft; lose 20% once you drive off the forecourt etc.) and some are new car addicts (new smell, free servicing, latest toys etc.). I am trying to say that I really feel the fun factor is lost sometimes online when people start discussing hifi just due to the almost infinite variations of components you can buy, different room configurations and furniture, different ages of listeners with different audio acuity, different musical tastes, different formats (vinyl, cd, compressed) and even more bewildering because of the intersection with home theatre which has very different demands.

I just hope ELY doesn't lose sight that when all's said and done, it's not the system you're enjoying but rather the music or soundtrack. If you've made a decent choice for your own ears then hopefully the hardware disappears and you are transported by the music or film you're watching. I still love being surprised by just how real the setup I have can create an almost visual soundstage for some recordings. I'm equally certain that another bloke will think my setup is a load of codswallop I don't intend upgrading to move with the latest and greatest though I might be tempted one day with an HDMI setup if just to lose some spaghetti. My wife's a good sport about it all and enjoys the surround sound and base effects the NHTs can generate without a sub when she watches a film with me. Many of my mates don't believe I haven't got one lurking about ( a sub that is) somewhere in the basement. My older lad says he will take my amps off me as a favour if I feel the need to move with the times...nice of him eh?

Can't help with the second hand scene in Singapore. I was out at some shopping arcade out near the airport way. Can't for the life of me remember the name but it was oddly full of massage parlours and had quite a few shops selling second hand kit. I'm sure there are people getting rid of their kit to get the latest greatest in Singapore as well as anywhere. Why not go onto the hifi/camera forums locally and ask? I am many many miles away in the land where people who can't make hifi actually make most of it .

I have seen and heard some very nice stuff in HK sourced from Shanghai actually. They do some tasty valve amps in Shanghai which also look beautiful. This can actually fit right in with the right type of retro look many householders are going for nowadays as the valves are exposed and look very art deco. oops rambling on so better shut up for now. Cheers

[RimBlock 0]

Hi RB,

as you can tell, I'm not one of the religious faithful All my component kit is Cambridge Audio but it's 4 years ago I bought this stuff so forgive me for not having the model numbers to hand. Yes you're right on the pre-amp set up.

Haha, this is nothing. I have had a multi page 'discussion' about HDMI cables and the illusion that it either works or it doesn't because it is digital. Discussing and coming to a common understanding then someone new jumps in and takes it all back to the beginning again. First it started with a facepalm, then it went to a tactical face palm and by the end it was a struggle to open my eyes . Was a good exercise on the HDMI format, communication method and confusions surrounding both.

My set up is not HDMI (well it's pass through so doesn't make a diff). MY POV is that for the money the average bloke spends on kit, he might as well buy decent 2nd hand stuff. I do understand that this is very personal; bit like cars really where some people like me wouldn't ever touch a new car (daft; lose 20% once you drive off the forecourt etc.) and some are new car addicts (new smell, free servicing, latest toys etc.). I am trying to say that I really feel the fun factor is lost sometimes online when people start discussing hifi just due to the almost infinite variations of components you can buy, different room configurations and furniture, different ages of listeners with different audio acuity, different musical tastes, different formats (vinyl, cd, compressed) and even more bewildering because of the intersection with home theatre which has very different demands.

Oh I agree on second hand stuff. My Wharfedale Emerald 93s are second hand and I got them for S$140. When new they retailed for around S$1200 and were still very highly rated when the last of the stock sold off at around S$600. My previous setup was Rogers 5.1 which I got new as Rogers went out of business. Great speakers with great resale value. I also ran via a Cyrus AV8, three monoblocks and two smart powers all with psx. It was at that point that I decided that a bigger spend would be wasted on me. Time changed and I ended up selling them and got a good amount back on all but the av8.

I just hope ELY doesn't lose sight that when all's said and done, it's not the system you're enjoying but rather the music or soundtrack. If you've made a decent choice for your own ears then hopefully the hardware disappears and you are transported by the music or film you're watching. I still love being surprised by just how real the setup I have can create an almost visual soundstage for some recordings. I'm equally certain that another bloke will think my setup is a load of codswallop I don't intend upgrading to move with the latest and greatest though I might be tempted one day with an HDMI setup if just to lose some spaghetti. My wife's a good sport about it all and enjoys the surround sound and base effects the NHTs can generate without a sub when she watches a film with me. Many of my mates don't believe I haven't got one lurking about ( a sub that is) somewhere in the basement. My older lad says he will take my amps off me as a favour if I feel the need to move with the times...nice of him eh?

And that is the end all and be all for most people. I just find it hard to keep quiet when people are spouting rubbish and worse of all, others are listening to them as if it is the truth and then get upset due to what they have bought. Do a blind demo, get the wife to pay and forget about brands and cost (demo stuff in budget of course) and choose the one that sounds best to you.

Can't help with the second hand scene in Singapore. I was out at some shopping arcade out near the airport way. Can't for the life of me remember the name but it was oddly full of massage parlours and had quite a few shops selling second hand kit. I'm sure there are people getting rid of their kit to get the latest greatest in Singapore as well as anywhere. Why not go onto the hifi/camera forums locally and ask? I am many many miles away in the land where people who can't make hifi actually make most of it .

Ahh an interloper . Ok so I have to ask my wife to tell me where there is a place somewhere near Changi with second hand HiFi shops and massage parlours . I can see how that is going to end . She works down around Changi so she may have an idea. Sure it is not Adelphi by the big white church but more central. Large number of HiFi shops and some massage parlours. Bit of a joke as the law court is just next door . Guess when the judges get stressed...... .

I have seen and heard some very nice stuff in HK sourced from Shanghai actually. They do some tasty valve amps in Shanghai which also look beautiful. This can actually fit right in with the right type of retro look many householders are going for nowadays as the valves are exposed and look very art deco. oops rambling on so better shut up for now. Cheers

Some of the valve stuff and older equipment like the turntables were really works of art. Wonderful to look at without even using.

RB

[rmgthatsme 0]

Actually the missus is in SG now as we're about to do the reno thing on our matchbox, hence my frequenting all these forums. The joke in all this is that about a month ago I was telling my wife, we'd probably have to get rid of all this hifi kit if/when we move back permanently to SG as it's a bit daft having enough wattage etc. to dim the lights in the whole block and melt the walls. Be sad to lose my stuff though especially the floorstanders. Oh well at least we won't freeze our nuts off half the year and bake the other half

We're doing the place up after owning it from new years back and leaving it empty as we've been working overseas all the time. Older lad's about to graduate from school and go do his bit for his country (NS beckons) so we thought it would be as good a time as any to do a bit of deco to give the poor wilting flower a decent retreat to collapse into on weekends away from soldiering. Way off topic ..again!

[mars73 0]

Another two setups you may want to look at are the Monitor Audio BX2s and the Q-Audio 2000 series. Both will be cheaper and it is up to you to decide if the savings are worth the difference in sound quality. Both have quite a following and are commonly suggested for packages. For the money, the B&Ws are touted as being very good, this is also true on the subs as well. Did you try to audition without the sub ?. Maybe see how big a difference it will make. Remember to factor in the cables, stands or brackets etc in the final price.

My guess the 608 is heavily discounted to clear stock for the 609 release.

Are you able to demo with the rears being 2.5 meters away ?. I would have thought you would be ok but it is, at the end of the day, your ears, your money and can be a very personal thing . This si why I am happy to suggest or steer but always make it clear nothing beats a good demo. You have been doing this so you are clearly going in the right direction.

It also depends on what you like to play. Classical, pop, rock ?. What sort of movies do you like. I was watching the V for Vendetta bluray last night and the talking from V is very soft so it needs a bit of power. Some of the scenes are very strong though. The scene when Evi comes out in tot he rain no longer scared of dying is fantastic for surround sound with the water, flames and music all around. Behind enemy lines has a missile chase scene witch is also very good for surround sound. Saving Private Ryan is also highly rated and War of the Worlds is a suggestion for testing out that bass. What have you been demoing with ?

RB

I'm more into pop, jazz, instrumentals. Less into rock. I popped by in the afternoon today to listen to the KEF KHT3005 (not bad), and Q300 (very nice). I think its a close one between Q300 and the B&W685. Probably need to go down to audition the 2 again together.

Think I should bring my avatar and dark knight bluray down to test.