Recommendation For A Decent Sound System.

[RimBlock 0]

so now PSB also made in China ?

only the high-end KEF is made in England, the rest also made in China for a long time.

lower-end B&W also made in China. years ago there was a court case against B&W when they claim their speakers made in England when it was made in China.

in any case, it's always wise to avoid British brands since most of them owned by Chinese owners and they get good reviews becoz they're the biggest advertisers.

Well it seems someone here has some very 'interesting' ideas about wharfedale speakers, their quality and British speakers in general, making sweeping statements with nothing to back them up. It really is a shame that people take it at face value.

Having used Wharfedale for quite a few years I have never had an issue with build quality. My current main speakers are 18 years old Wharfedales and are rock solid even after being used in countless audio shows and being freighted halfway around the world via ship. The diamond series is widely recognised as very good for that price point (entry level) and so if you have bought a diamond 10 set then you can rest assured that the money has not been thrown away. Enjoy your purchases.

Comparing the diamond series (entry level) to audiophile standards (however that person believes they are defined) is just plain silly. Most people do not compare Ferraris with Civics or state everything below a BMW 7 series is crap, well some do but it is quite easy to work out what sort of person they are. The Diamonds are a consumer standard set of speakers and are priced accordingly.

Whilst I don't doubt that some magazines give favouritism to high value advertisers, user reviews do not and there are many around the internet from very happy customers of Wharfedale or any other speakers from British brands. There is also a very good trade on EBay of old models which would not exist if they fell apart after a couple of years. If the previous poster has had a set which fell apart after a couple of years I would be very wary of taking any sort of advice from them as they had clearly been abusing the speakers.

The Chinese ownership of Wharfedale that is being mentioned is due to IAG (International Audio Groups) ownership of the Wharfedale brand (along with QED, Audiolab, Mission, Castle and Luxman). Of course our esteemed contributor forgot to mention that Michael and Bernard Chang (owners of IAG) are in fact Taiwanese Chinese audiophile enthusiasts rather than just another business man with no interest in HiFi. More info here about the acquisition and a bit of background. The new director of acoustic design is Peter Comeau. Information about him and his 30 years with British audio companies can be found here. IAG is based in Shenzhen which is not surprisingly where the iPhone is built along with a lot of today consumer electronics due to that wonderful thing that is international globalization. We don't see many complaints about the iPhones build quality, design flaws yes but not build quality. Made in China does not automatically mean badly made. Other British HiFi companies which are British owned can be found here. They include B&W, Arcam, Spendor, Pro-AC, Rega, Roksan, Ruark, Linn, Keff, Cyrus and Chord.

Ok, so on to some suggestions for people wanting to buy.

Firstly, music is a very personal experience. By this I mean that to an certain extent, peoples likes differ as do their hearing. Our hearing changes as we grow older so if you are interested in buying equipment to give you an enjoyable experience then you have to go to a decent HiFi shop and demo some equipment in one of their listening rooms.

I would work out three tiers of budget, bottom (would like to spend), middle (can to spend) and top (absolute maximum). Be realistic about bottom. Every one would like to spend 1 dollar and get great hifi but it really is not possible in this reality.

Check the internet for reviews and suggestions. Good places to start are AVForums and AVSForums. Have a bit of a read and then post asking for suggestions within the three budgets. Both sets of forums are generally very friendly. Take the advice and do a bit of a search for reviews then shortlist maybe a couple to demo in each price bracket. Contact some shops, most are located in The Adelphi opposite Funan (City Hall is the closest MRT). Don't worry about going to more than one shop if one shop does not have all the equipment you want to demo. You can always go back and should not feel you have to buy on the spot.

Try to work out what you like. Do you like a nice deep base, a detailed treble or a good mixture of both. Again this is a personal thing. If you are not sure then the sales person should be able to help you find out. Take a small selection of cds (dvd's / blurays if checking out a home cinema set-up) you like to use for the demo so you get to hear your music. Don't let anyone tell you what you should like. Just because someone on the internet tells you that you should like it if it sounds one way, make up your own mind on what you like.

After listening to all three tiers of price, work out if the middle is worth the extra in price to you above the price of the lower priced system. Do the same for the higher priced compared to the middle priced. You may find that you are pretty happy with a lower priced system and save yourself a chunk of cash. Going in with a fixed budget will usually see you spending it all and maybe some on top when they may have been no need unless you are desperate to burn cash and if that is the case you can transfer it to my bank account . Remember, cables can be purchased on-line at places like Amazon. A high speed 3 meter HDMI cable can be bought for around S$20-S$25 rather than buying one of the expensive Monster cables. Cables are a good way for shops to add profit as they tend to have a high mark-up.

For an example;

I had a free surround sound set-up which came with a TV purchase. It was TBH very poor but it was ok for a little while. I upgraded to a AV amp and speaker package at just under 2K which was significantly better. I recently upgraded again to a better av amp and some speakers at around 3K. On demoing the 2K package which I am selling, the person looking to buy loved it. Point being it was good enough for him at the price I am selling for. My 3K system is good enough for me. Don't be bothered about what someone thinks you should spend. Work out what you need to spend to get the sound you want.

Take your purchase home and enjoy knowing that you got what you liked best regardless of what some unknown person with access to a computer states.

RB

[RimBlock 0]

Hi all

I'm abit of a noob when it comes to HTS. I'll be moving to my new place and want to do up my place properly for Home Theatre in the living room.

First, abit of info about the dimensions of my living and dining room (it's one continuous rectangular space). It is about 4m wide in front and has a 'depth' of 6m, including the dining area. Excluding the dining area, it is about 3.5m deep. Ceiling height is about 2.9m.

I have a budget of abt $3k max for the AVR and speakers. Intend to hang on to my PS3 as a blu-ray player for the time being. Will upgrade the player when I have more budget later. Intend to use the set for 60% movies and 40% music. I'm looking at a 5.1 setup. Seems like the advice is to spend more on speakers as they are less prone to obsolescence, and in particular the front 3 speakers and sub.

Would appreciate some help with the following:

1. Where should I place the rear speakers? I have 2 options (a) hanging from the ceiling in the 'middle' of the room behind the sofa (b) Off the ceiling/wall at the 'rear end' of the room behind the dining area

2. I intend to ask the contractor to pre-lay the cables for the speakers. What kind of cables should I use to be 'future proof'? Don't want to hack out the ceiling later.

3. For the AVR, I'm looking at either the Onkyo 608 or the Yamaha 667. Probably the Onkyo. Am I right to estimate about $700 for the Onkyo? Based on the balance of $2300 max for speakers, would appreciate some recommendations on the options for speakers I should be looking at.

Thanks very much for reading and your help!

1. Check out the Dolby website here which gives you speaker placement diagrams for various setups.

2. Audition the speaker cable with the kit you want. Depends on how much you wish to spend and how sensitive your hearing is. You can go from S$1/mtr, S$2/mtr for cheap to around S$7/mtr for something like Chord Company Carnival which would be fine for most people in a home environment at your price level or up to S$XXX. I have cheap for the side rears and back and Carnival for the fronts. The sides and rears usually carry very little information compared to the fronts and centre. I have had no issues and I put mine through a light box and laid my own trunking (can see in my T-blog)

3. I had a look at the 608 but bought the 667. Both are very good but the 608 is end of life and will be replaced very soon with the 609. I know the big chains are out of 608's as I spoke to the distributor as well as floor staff but I hear KEC still has some, or did last week. I do not regret the 667 in any way and am very happy with it. Either will serve you well although I had feedback that the Onkyo can have issues with HDMI splitters and as I am feeding to both a TV and projector I played it safe (that and availability of the 608). The 667 has no problem with a HDMI splitter from Amazon at S$50.

Also note that if you get some big(ish) fronts then you could possibly get away without a sub. I have large stand mounted speakers on the fronts and they provide a pretty reasonable bass alone. I still get to feel my chest tremble with the low rumbles in the movies. Going this route also allows me to add a sub (well two with the 667) at a later date if I wish.

RB

Edited March 11, 2011 by RimBlock

[farkingnuts 0]

Well it seems someone here has some very 'interesting' ideas about wharfedale speakers, their quality and British speakers in general, making sweeping statements with nothing to back them up. It really is a shame that people take it at face value.

Having used Wharfedale for quite a few years I have never had an issue with build quality. My current main speakers are 18 years old Wharfedales and are rock solid even after being used in countless audio shows and being freighted halfway around the world via ship. The diamond series is widely recognised as very good for that price point (entry level) and so if you have bought a diamond 10 set then you can rest assured that the money has not been thrown away. Enjoy your purchases.

Comparing the diamond series (entry level) to audiophile standards (however that person believes they are defined) is just plain silly. Most people do not compare Ferraris with Civics or state everything below a BMW 7 series is crap, well some do but it is quite easy to work out what sort of person they are. The Diamonds are a consumer standard set of speakers and are priced accordingly.

Whilst I don't doubt that some magazines give favouritism to high value advertisers, user reviews do not and there are many around the internet from very happy customers of Wharfedale or any other speakers from British brands. There is also a very good trade on EBay of old models which would not exist if they fell apart after a couple of years. If the previous poster has had a set which fell apart after a couple of years I would be very wary of taking any sort of advice from them as they had clearly been abusing the speakers.

The Chinese ownership of Wharfedale that is being mentioned is due to IAG (International Audio Groups) ownership of the Wharfedale brand (along with QED, Audiolab, Mission, Castle and Luxman). Of course our esteemed contributor forgot to mention that Michael and Bernard Chang (owners of IAG) are in fact Taiwanese Chinese audiophile enthusiasts rather than just another business man with no interest in HiFi. More info here about the acquisition and a bit of background. The new director of acoustic design is Peter Comeau. Information about him and his 30 years with British audio companies can be found here. IAG is based in Shenzhen which is not surprisingly where the iPhone is built along with a lot of today consumer electronics due to that wonderful thing that is international globalization. We don't see many complaints about the iPhones build quality, design flaws yes but not build quality. Made in China does not automatically mean badly made. Other British HiFi companies which are British owned can be found here. They include B&W, Arcam, Spendor, Pro-AC, Rega, Roksan, Ruark, Linn, Keff, Cyrus and Chord.

Ok, so on to some suggestions for people wanting to buy.

Firstly, music is a very personal experience. By this I mean that to an certain extent, peoples likes differ as do their hearing. Our hearing changes as we grow older so if you are interested in buying equipment to give you an enjoyable experience then you have to go to a decent HiFi shop and demo some equipment in one of their listening rooms.

I would work out three tiers of budget, bottom (would like to spend), middle (can to spend) and top (absolute maximum). Be realistic about bottom. Every one would like to spend 1 dollar and get great hifi but it really is not possible in this reality.

Check the internet for reviews and suggestions. Good places to start are AVForums and AVSForums. Have a bit of a read and then post asking for suggestions within the three budgets. Both sets of forums are generally very friendly. Take the advice and do a bit of a search for reviews then shortlist maybe a couple to demo in each price bracket. Contact some shops, most are located in The Adelphi opposite Funan (City Hall is the closest MRT). Don't worry about going to more than one shop if one shop does not have all the equipment you want to demo. You can always go back and should not feel you have to buy on the spot.

Try to work out what you like. Do you like a nice deep base, a detailed treble or a good mixture of both. Again this is a personal thing. If you are not sure then the sales person should be able to help you find out. Take a small selection of cds (dvd's / blurays if checking out a home cinema set-up) you like to use for the demo so you get to hear your music. Don't let anyone tell you what you should like. Just because someone on the internet tells you that you should like it if it sounds one way, make up your own mind on what you like.

After listening to all three tiers of price, work out if the middle is worth the extra in price to you above the price of the lower priced system. Do the same for the higher priced compared to the middle priced. You may find that you are pretty happy with a lower priced system and save yourself a chunk of cash. Going in with a fixed budget will usually see you spending it all and maybe some on top when they may have been no need unless you are desperate to burn cash and if that is the case you can transfer it to my bank account . Remember, cables can be purchased on-line at places like Amazon. A high speed 3 meter HDMI cable can be bought for around S$20-S$25 rather than buying one of the expensive Monster cables. Cables are a good way for shops to add profit as they tend to have a high mark-up.

For an example;

I had a free surround sound set-up which came with a TV purchase. It was TBH very poor but it was ok for a little while. I upgraded to a AV amp and speaker package at just under 2K which was significantly better. I recently upgraded again to a better av amp and some speakers at around 3K. On demoing the 2K package which I am selling, the person looking to buy loved it. Point being it was good enough for him at the price I am selling for. My 3K system is good enough for me. Don't be bothered about what someone thinks you should spend. Work out what you need to spend to get the sound you want.

Take your purchase home and enjoy knowing that you got what you liked best regardless of what some unknown person with access to a computer states.

RB

problem is wharfedale were not owned by the Chinese 18 years ago !

in any case, there are far better choices than Wharfedale back then and now.

anyway, i will stick to speakers here and not talk about electronics.

[neubie 2]

problem is wharfedale were not owned by the Chinese 18 years ago !

in any case, there are far better choices than Wharfedale back then and now.

anyway, i will stick to speakers here and not talk about electronics.

think nowadays with globalisation, even high end speakers, eg vifa, scanspeak, focal oso made in PRC liao....

[farkingnuts 0]

Thanks, what if I up my budget to $3.3k for speakers? Any chance I can get reasonably decent box speakers? Or what would be the minimum budget for a set of decent 5.1 box speakers (for the front 2 at least)?

so your total budget will be 4,000 right ?

for ''box'' speakers, you'll need a good receiver since we're talking about driving 5 speakers.

a reasonably capable receiver will be around 1,500 to have enough power+quality so you'll have 2,500 for 5.1 set-up but an okay sub will cost 700-800 so that means 1,700 for 5 speakers.

maybe you can buy the front 3 speakers first.

try Usher since made-in-Taiwan but with quality drivers and won't cost a bomb.

see if NHT is available at that price range.

i'll definitely avoid British speakers for sure, especially those that advertise a lot in magazines since their good reviews are ''bought'' !

use cheap cables first and then upgrade later to save money now, try Canare or Mogami and avoid British cables. Most of the cables made in China or Taiwan anyway.

[farkingnuts 0]

think nowadays with globalisation, even high end speakers, eg vifa, scanspeak, focal oso made in PRC liao....

even if all brands made in China, the Brits are now behind the Germans, French and Americans when it comes to speakers.

if buy British speakers at wharfedale price, might as well buy Monitor Audio - anytime better !

[mars73 0]

1. Check out the Dolby website here which gives you speaker placement diagrams for various setups.

2. Audition the speaker cable with the kit you want. Depends on how much you wish to spend and how sensitive your hearing is. You can go from S$1/mtr, S$2/mtr for cheap to around S$7/mtr for something like Chord Company Carnival which would be fine for most people in a home environment at your price level or up to S$XXX. I have cheap for the side rears and back and Carnival for the fronts. The sides and rears usually carry very little information compared to the fronts and centre. I have had no issues and I put mine through a light box and laid my own trunking (can see in my T-blog)

3. I had a look at the 608 but bought the 667. Both are very good but the 608 is end of life and will be replaced very soon with the 607. I know the big chains are out of 608's as I spoke to the distributor as well as floor staff but I hear KEC still has some, or did last week. I do not regret the 667 in any way and am very happy with it. Either will serve you well although I had feedback that the Onkyo can have issues with HDMI splitters and as I am feeding to both a TV and projector I played it safe (that and availability of the 608). The 667 has no problem with a HDMI splitter from Amazon at S$50.

Also note that if you get some big(ish) fronts then you could possibly get away without a sub. I have large stand mounted speakers on the fronts and they provide a pretty reasonable bass alone. I still get to feel my chest tremble with the low rumbles in the movies. Going this route also allows me to add a sub (well two with the 667) at a later date if I wish.

RB

Thanks. I never thought I would need to audition the cables as well... Where can I do that? Will the shops in Adelphi do that?

I went down to Adelphi today for a quick look see as I had a bit of spare time.

Didn't manage to try the Yamaha but listened to the Onkyo and Denon 1911. Onkyo was better in my opinion. I'm not sure if I have to worry about HDMI splitting cos essentially I only have 1 main TV.

Listened to some speakers as well. The ProCinema 600s were not very good. 800 was better. Tannoy Arena was very good. Also listened to the B&W M1 (pretty good) and 685 (excellent). I am inclined to spend more on front speakers (bookshelf or floor standing), but these are all speaker sets which come in a package (except the 685).

One problem I have is that with my living and dining room set up, I was advised that I would have to either ceiling mount my rear speakers, or put them on speaker stands (with wiring on the floor). The latter is a big no-no for my wife. For ceiling mount, most of them said that it is not ideal, and there are very limited choices.

I'm not sure why there are limited choices for ceiling mounted speakers. Is weight the problem? Or is it the lack of proper mountings? My ID told me that they can reinforce the false ceiling so weight shouldn't be a problem. I've also seen large speakers mounted on the ceiling before so I'm not sure what is the problem. Can anyone advise, please?

Or would it be ok for me to get separate speakers (instead of a set) - book shelf/floorstanding front speakers, with small rear speakers (or even those mounted into the ceiling type).

Thanks.

[mars73 0]

so your total budget will be 4,000 right ?

for ''box'' speakers, you'll need a good receiver since we're talking about driving 5 speakers.

a reasonably capable receiver will be around 1,500 to have enough power+quality so you'll have 2,500 for 5.1 set-up but an okay sub will cost 700-800 so that means 1,700 for 5 speakers.

maybe you can buy the front 3 speakers first.

try Usher since made-in-Taiwan but with quality drivers and won't cost a bomb.

see if NHT is available at that price range.

i'll definitely avoid British speakers for sure, especially those that advertise a lot in magazines since their good reviews are ''bought'' !

use cheap cables first and then upgrade later to save money now, try Canare or Mogami and avoid British cables. Most of the cables made in China or Taiwan anyway.

Thanks, which shops will carry these speakers that you mentioned. I don't recall coming across them.

[farkingnuts 0]

Thanks. I never thought I would need to audition the cables as well... Where can I do that? Will the shops in Adelphi do that?

I went down to Adelphi today for a quick look see as I had a bit of spare time.

Didn't manage to try the Yamaha but listened to the Onkyo and Denon 1911. Onkyo was better in my opinion. I'm not sure if I have to worry about HDMI splitting cos essentially I only have 1 main TV.

Listened to some speakers as well. The ProCinema 600s were not very good. 800 was better. Tannoy Arena was very good. Also listened to the B&W M1 (pretty good) and 685 (excellent). I am inclined to spend more on front speakers (bookshelf or floor standing), but these are all speaker sets which come in a package (except the 685).

One problem I have is that with my living and dining room set up, I was advised that I would have to either ceiling mount my rear speakers, or put them on speaker stands (with wiring on the floor). The latter is a big no-no for my wife. For ceiling mount, most of them said that it is not ideal, and there are very limited choices.

I'm not sure why there are limited choices for ceiling mounted speakers. Is weight the problem? Or is it the lack of proper mountings? My ID told me that they can reinforce the false ceiling so weight shouldn't be a problem. I've also seen large speakers mounted on the ceiling before so I'm not sure what is the problem. Can anyone advise, please?

Or would it be ok for me to get separate speakers (instead of a set) - book shelf/floorstanding front speakers, with small rear speakers (or even those mounted into the ceiling type).

Thanks.

Tannoy is superior to B&W for music while B&W is more for AV, especially so for the lower range models.

as for cables, you'll be safe buying American ones and avoid British ones.

however, avoid Monster Cable.

[farkingnuts 0]

Thanks, which shops will carry these speakers that you mentioned. I don't recall coming across them.

i don't know who carry Usher so you'll have to make a Google search.

Monitor audio is carried by Precision Audio but you'll have to really really make sure that you buy the new models and that they're truly from Monitor Audio, you got to check the box and after you bought the speakers, check the serial numbers with the manufacturer to make sure you're getting the authentic products.

[farkingnuts 0]

Thanks. I never thought I would need to audition the cables as well... Where can I do that? Will the shops in Adelphi do that?

I went down to Adelphi today for a quick look see as I had a bit of spare time.

Didn't manage to try the Yamaha but listened to the Onkyo and Denon 1911. Onkyo was better in my opinion. I'm not sure if I have to worry about HDMI splitting cos essentially I only have 1 main TV.

Listened to some speakers as well. The ProCinema 600s were not very good. 800 was better. Tannoy Arena was very good. Also listened to the B&W M1 (pretty good) and 685 (excellent). I am inclined to spend more on front speakers (bookshelf or floor standing), but these are all speaker sets which come in a package (except the 685).

One problem I have is that with my living and dining room set up, I was advised that I would have to either ceiling mount my rear speakers, or put them on speaker stands (with wiring on the floor). The latter is a big no-no for my wife. For ceiling mount, most of them said that it is not ideal, and there are very limited choices.

I'm not sure why there are limited choices for ceiling mounted speakers. Is weight the problem? Or is it the lack of proper mountings? My ID told me that they can reinforce the false ceiling so weight shouldn't be a problem. I've also seen large speakers mounted on the ceiling before so I'm not sure what is the problem. Can anyone advise, please?

Or would it be ok for me to get separate speakers (instead of a set) - book shelf/floorstanding front speakers, with small rear speakers (or even those mounted into the ceiling type).

Thanks.

by the way, if you buy the B&W 685 you won't need to buy subwoofer anymore.

the BOOMING bass will be so OVER-BLOATED i doubt you'll hear any details at all !

you're gonna get loads and loads more bass at home when compared to at the showroom.

PLUS the B&W 6-series are known to be boomy and bloated !

[mars73 0]

Tannoy is superior to B&W for music while B&W is more for AV, especially so for the lower range models.

as for cables, you'll be safe buying American ones and avoid British ones.

however, avoid Monster Cable.

Which cables are American? Seems like most of the ones mentioned here are British...

[RimBlock 0]

Thanks. I never thought I would need to audition the cables as well... Where can I do that? Will the shops in Adelphi do that?

A decent HiFi shop should have runs of commonly bought cables on hand for demoing.

I went down to Adelphi today for a quick look see as I had a bit of spare time.

Didn't manage to try the Yamaha but listened to the Onkyo and Denon 1911. Onkyo was better in my opinion. I'm not sure if I have to worry about HDMI splitting cos essentially I only have 1 main TV.

Listened to some speakers as well. The ProCinema 600s were not very good. 800 was better. Tannoy Arena was very good. Also listened to the B&W M1 (pretty good) and 685 (excellent). I am inclined to spend more on front speakers (bookshelf or floor standing), but these are all speaker sets which come in a package (except the 685).

Strange, the M1s can also be bought as singles in the UK. Not sure why dealers here are not doing the same.

One problem I have is that with my living and dining room set up, I was advised that I would have to either ceiling mount my rear speakers, or put them on speaker stands (with wiring on the floor). The latter is a big no-no for my wife. For ceiling mount, most of them said that it is not ideal, and there are very limited choices.

Yes I am in the same position so I know your pain. What you need to remember is that the rear sides in a 7.1 setup act as the rears in a 5.1 setup. I used a couple of speaker brackets and hung some small speakers from the light box. Using the correct butterfly fittings the light box happily takes the weight. I am in the process of changing these for either bipole speakers like the Wharfedale 10.dfs or discrete speakers like the Linn Classik Unik (formally known as the AV5110s). Both are within budget, the Linns are a slim profile and white whilst the Wharfedales are fairly slim but will bounce the sound around a lot more as they fire in two directions. The Kef T101/T103s also seem to be getting good feedback and are more or less flat panels.

I'm not sure why there are limited choices for ceiling mounted speakers. Is weight the problem? Or is it the lack of proper mountings? My ID told me that they can reinforce the false ceiling so weight shouldn't be a problem. I've also seen large speakers mounted on the ceiling before so I'm not sure what is the problem. Can anyone advise, please?

Stability is probably a leading concern. As the cones move, the less stable the speaker, the more that movement is distorted. Fixing to good stands or directly to a wall limits the movement. Are you not able to fix to a beam ?.

Or would it be ok for me to get separate speakers (instead of a set) - book shelf/floorstanding front speakers, with small rear speakers (or even those mounted into the ceiling type).

Thanks.

Recessed speakers would probably be your last choice but are a lot more wife friendly. You can happily mix and match but audition to make sure you are happy with the pairing.

I would probably advise going for half on the fronts and centre. The left and right obviously for music and the centre as being the most important for movies. Two thirds of the rest on the amp and the remaining third on the rears.

So for 3k,

1.5k on the fronts and centre.

1k on the amp.

300 for the side rears

200 on the rears.

B&W 685s are very highly recommended in the press and by users here (291 pages of feedback from users).

The 1K should get you the Onkyo 608/609 (when it arrives in Singapore) or the Yammy 667.

You could get a reasonable entry level speaker for the rear sides and a small bookshelf one for the rears. If you want to go only for 5.1 at this moment the the full 500 can go on the rears (5.1 rears not 7.1 rears).

Cable needs to be factored, speaker stands or mounting brackets, as does the install if you want a shop to set it up. 3K may be a bit tight for this level. Dropping down a level to the 508/509 or the Yamaha 567 will give more breathing room.

The main question though is this.... Are you a consumer, an enthusiast or an audiophile.

I would peg you as an enthusiast like myself. Interested in having a good setup on a budget and willing to do some research and buy components rather than an off the shelf setup. A consumer will usually go for an off the shelf package and for an audiophile music is a passion and its accurate representation is the main goal and the smallest nuances of equipment will cause unacceptable colouration. An audiophile would not be asking about audio recommendations on a renovation forum but would go to a music enthusiasts forum where much more knowledgeable people are likely to be.

RB

Edited March 11, 2011 by RimBlock

[RimBlock 0]

problem is wharfedale were not owned by the Chinese 18 years ago !

in any case, there are far better choices than Wharfedale back then and now.

anyway, i will stick to speakers here and not talk about electronics.

User experiences with their own Wharfedale speakers going back 15+ years up to the current day including the Evo, Evo II, Diamond 9 and Diamond 10 series here.

I prefer to let people see what users think of the speakers rather than make sweeping statements whilst not being able to provide anything to back up what you are saying.

Lets be clear here, are you using Chinese as a race or as a nationality ?. Clearly if you are using it as a nationality you are wrong.

RB

[RimBlock 0]

by the way, if you buy the B&W 685 you won't need to buy subwoofer anymore.

the BOOMING bass will be so OVER-BLOATED i doubt you'll hear any details at all !

you're gonna get loads and loads more bass at home when compared to at the showroom.

PLUS the B&W 6-series are known to be boomy and bloated !

Clearly rubbish again if people take the time to position them correctly. The sound dynamics of your room will have an influence on the sound coming out of your speakers and should be noted. Take note of the positioning advice provided by the manufacturer before buying. Claiming that, for example, taking a speaker from a small demo room and putting it in an open plan area at home with adequate space around the speaker will cause a bigger boomy effect is just plain wrong. If anything the open space will have an effect of lightening the bass response. As Mars has mentioned that he has no wall for side mounting, it is pretty obvious that his listening area is likely to be open and not a closed room. Pushing speakers closer to the walls will intensify the bass possibly to a level of distortion.

Mars, if possible ask for speaker placement as close as possible to how they will be put at home for the demo. If you will be placing away from walls then have the demo with the speakers roughly the same distance from the walls. If you need to place closer at home then ask for the demo speakers to be placed closer to the walls. Your demo, your money, the shop should be able to accommodate any reasonable request. Also note that the speakers demo'd will be 'run-in' and will also most likely sound different from a new set. The new set will come closer as usage increases and then level out. If you google running in speakers you should be able to get some good suggestions.

It is also worth noting that the best position for speaker in an musical setup is not always the best position for movie surround sound. For most people this will not be a factor.

RB