Reno @my Simei 4a Resale Flat

[budgetice 0]

So fencer is holding more than 10% ? the window is not part of the 38K?

the stress throughout the whole legal process is the main issue here.. dont listen to those gu hong talk and challenge legal etc..

they can talk because its not happening to them and talking is so easy..

I still think u all should talk.. what is $3.8k to henry when he has a business and reputation to protect?

[jaskel 2]

So fencer is holding more than 10% ? the window is not part of the 38K?

the stress throughout the whole legal process is the main issue here.. dont listen to those gu hong talk and challenge legal etc..

they can talk because its not happening to them and talking is so easy..

I still think u all should talk.. what is $3.8k to henry when he has a business and reputation to protect?

Think they are talking now cos he not ard. Good to both if they can solve it peacefully.

[hcbing 0]

Think they are talking now cos he not ard. Good to both if they can solve it peacefully.

Yaloh...just solve it calmly and peacefully lah. Emotions all at play until it's all at such a point. Stressful if it's me in either one of their shoes.

[blueocean 0]

Of cos can settle between each other is the best situation ! Cos 3.8k is not going to be worth the legal and court fees for both parties. Litigation is always the last avenue when all else fails. But it is always good to be aware of avenues the consumer can go ...

The stresses with residential renovation are (1) it involves many months of salary (2) it is personal as it is your home (3) time factor. And therefore, emotions will definitely run high.

Most people will accept that there will be defects, but the important thing is how the contractor manages the expectations of the consumer, addresses his concerns and attempts to solve the problems as it arises. It is all part of quality management isnt it ? Feedback also allows the main contractor to be aware of the quality output of his tradesmen or sub-contractors.

Also, before the renovation commences, if the contract spells out clearly all the liquidated damages eg for delays, how to arbitrate for sub-standard works - all these will be clear. But of course, most contractors dont want all these and will leave these as vaguely as possible as they want the flexibility ...

At the end of the day, the consumer has to stay and live in the renovated house for the next few years. The contractor can always move on to the next house. And can always close and re-open under a new business names (it also wipes the previous debt clean !). Unfortunately the consumer can't "reboot" his renovation.

Edited May 18, 2010 by blueocean

[fencer 0]

Think they are talking now cos he not ard. Good to both if they can solve it peacefully.

Yaloh...just solve it calmly and peacefully lah. Emotions all at play until it's all at such a point. Stressful if it's me in either one of their shoes.

Yoohoo.. talked.. things moved 10%..

At 1 point when things heat up during conversation w my bro-in-law.. Henry said Spore is very small loh (to my bro-in-law).. Hmm.. wanna drink kopi together?

Broken tile won't be replaced. Coz canot be seen, hard to change, is acceptable, place would be dirty, may damage other things..

Window.. won't be changed.. checked and slope is within tolerance limit... no leak now, got 3 years warranty.. is nice coz no gap betwn window/grill..

As usual.. walk around.. talk out of context.. compare to other hses..

And most important.. is my unit required to have fire-proof door to HDB rules? According to Henry, previous door is non-fireproof coz is light enuf to be carried by 1 worker. Henry Theory No. 9 here.. replaced exactly the same type of door, no fault. If ex-owner did replace fireproof door w non-fireproof door (coz of heavenly mistake etc etc etc), Henry as a HDB licensed contractor is not responsible to find out this information coz he just replace 1 to 1.

IF HDB comes and knock on your door.. like blueocean said in some cases.. owner fault.. owner kana... So pls be careful..

Same things happened. walk around... talk out of context.. don't answer qns straight, compare to other ppl.. story of car selling..

Wiring need to call Liang to come down and put a trunking in the box up coz is dangling = dangerous.. and likely my hse wiring won't pass HDB test.. likely.. not confirm.. so better dun go test water... Those who wan HDB testing, please make it known and wriiten in contract.. Henry dun know abt this coz no open box up before = no notice.. wic last time i showed him abt the spill paint and unpainted portion.. but Shhh..

Did not wan to mention any more other things to waste.. either i DIY, live with it or ask others for help..

time is of essence now.. SHOULD hv prepared haf year after reno to settle things.. hint hint to others..

And yes Simon.. Henry offered for me to retain the rest of the money until i confirm w HDB..

End story, i nd to call up HDB myself to ask abt the fireproof door. If need to change to fire-proof door, i'm in deeper ****.. e.g can the door frame take the weight of fireproof door? if need replace, need hack frame, tiles etc etc..

I'll keep a small sum for the window and cracked tile.. would seek advice from other ppl..

[fencer 0]

Of cos can settle between each other is the best situation ! Cos 3.8k is not going to be worth the legal and court fees for both parties. Litigation is always the last avenue when all else fails. But it is always good to be aware of avenues the consumer can go ...

The stresses with residential renovation are (1) it involves many months of salary (2) it is personal as it is your home (3) time factor. And therefore, emotions will definitely run high.

Most people will accept that there will be defects, but the important thing is how the contractor manages the expectations of the consumer, addresses his concerns and attempts to solve the problems as it arises. It is all part of quality management isnt it ? Feedback also allows the main contractor to be aware of the quality output of his tradesmen or sub-contractors.

Also, before the renovation commences, if the contract spells out clearly all the liquidated damages eg for delays, how to arbitrate for sub-standard works - all these will be clear. But of course, most contractors dont want all these and will leave these as vaguely as possible as they want the flexibility ...

At the end of the day, the consumer has to stay and live in the renovated house for the next few years. The contractor can always move on to the next house. And can always close and re-open under a new business names (it also wipes the previous debt clean !). Unfortunately the consumer can't "reboot" his renovation.

I don't think any contractors or ID would allow the inclusion of such clause since is a threaten to them.. unless law says is must..

[fencer 0]

Besides money, can say the most thing hse owners is short of is time.. esp if there is no schedule or clause to specify wat happens if lapse too long..

Some errant contractors wld play time with u.. he can cont reno other houses while slowly waiting for u to run out of time...

Basically, like blueocean said, contracts is 1 sided and benefit the contractor or ID only.

Wonder when the industry would include clauses to protect more of consumers..

[blueocean 0]

That is the thing about contractors. They will shun responsibility as soon as something happens. Doing business cannot work like that. It is not good business practice. Has doing business just become purely on extracting the most $$ out of consumers ? Business needs to be done fairly !

How is this different from real estate agents where once the consumer pays the commission and if something happens, you get no response from either the agent or the agency ? True, there may be consumers who are more ignorant and may not notice the defects but it doesnt mean that it is right !

Isnt it a "design and build" contract ? What this means is that the contractor is ultimately responsible for the overall design wor ... he owes a duty of care as a reasonably skilled contractor to advise consumers on the design (eg doors etc) One cannot shift the blame to the consumer cos he is already paying a big mark-up by engaging a general contractor ...

Regarding the electrical work ... I doubt most consumers will check the credentials of their electricians. Most are not EMA certified. I always find it strange that HDB, SP Power all advocate that consumers should seek EMA certified electricians ... but they are a hard breed to find. So the electricians that do up your place has been working for many years in the line (hopefully he is not new !) .... and if a signature is required, they will get someone else to sign

[budgetice 0]

Actually, you should have done more research rather than worry here and there after the reno..

not all unit need fire rated door.. think if its 3m from lift landing, you dont need to put.

ur 38k should be for lots of carpentary , contract item pricing should not be higher than ID..

compare apple to apple.. you could have been few $k worst off if this is an ID..

so u save a few k..

[hcbing 0]

And most important.. is my unit required to have fire-proof door to HDB rules? According to Henry, previous door is non-fireproof coz is light enuf to be carried by 1 worker. Henry Theory No. 9 here.. replaced exactly the same type of door, no fault. If ex-owner did replace fireproof door w non-fireproof door (coz of heavenly mistake etc etc etc), Henry as a HDB licensed contractor is not responsible to find out this information coz he just replace 1 to 1.

IF HDB comes and knock on your door.. like blueocean said in some cases.. owner fault.. owner kana... So pls be careful..

...

End story, i nd to call up HDB myself to ask abt the fireproof door. If need to change to fire-proof door, i'm in deeper ****.. e.g can the door frame take the weight of fireproof door? if need replace, need hack frame, tiles etc etc..

I'll keep a small sum for the window and cracked tile.. would seek advice from other ppl..

This is how I see it IMHO and I am speaking from experience coz I had to deal with unauthorized renovation works done by my unit's previous owner.

I bought the house as-is and have signed on the dotted line that I accept the house as it is. If there are any unauthorized renovation works done to the unit (i.e. illegal rectifications, missing permits or irregular paperwork), it's ultimately the buyer's responsibility to make sure that this is dealt with in accordance to the provisions of HDB guidelines. So that meant HDB would normally work out with the seller to normalize any illegal works prior to completion date. As far as HDB go, they'll send their technical officer to see see look look and he/she will advise the seller accordingly.

Fencer, as for your case did the technical officer comment anything about the main door after the HDB's first inspection? Although this would not have been communicated to you and only to the seller.

[fencer 0]

That is the thing about contractors. They will shun responsibility as soon as something happens. Doing business cannot work like that. It is not good business practice. Has doing business just become purely on extracting the most $$ out of consumers ? Business needs to be done fairly !

How is this different from real estate agents where once the consumer pays the commission and if something happens, you get no response from either the agent or the agency ? True, there may be consumers who are more ignorant and may not notice the defects but it doesnt mean that it is right !

Isnt it a "design and build" contract ? What this means is that the contractor is ultimately responsible for the overall design wor ... he owes a duty of care as a reasonably skilled contractor to advise consumers on the design (eg doors etc) One cannot shift the blame to the consumer cos he is already paying a big mark-up by engaging a general contractor ...

Regarding the electrical work ... I doubt most consumers will check the credentials of their electricians. Most are not EMA certified. I always find it strange that HDB, SP Power all advocate that consumers should seek EMA certified electricians ... but they are a hard breed to find. So the electricians that do up your place has been working for many years in the line (hopefully he is not new !) .... and if a signature is required, they will get someone else to sign

To contractors, houses is houses bah.. and everything else is a bz.. I know there are some who work with pasion for quality work.. but how many contractors do that?

To house owners, it is a house that they bought with CPF being wiped clean and be paying over 30 years period installment. A house they would take care and live in for donkey years and children to grow up in..

[Supersimon27 2]

More abt fire rated door

Above link for more information regarding fired rated door.

I think Henry yesterday did tell u that yr unit doesn't need fired rated door as it's not near the lift . But U chose not to believe him. Anyway i think it's better for you yrself to find out from HDB since the trust between u and him already broken . Whatever he say you also dun believe.

Glad that U settle the bal that u hold him up . Didn't know that U hold him more then 10% all the while. Everyone tot that u only hold 10% sia. Should tell us that U hold more then that earlier mah . quite misleading U know.

[fencer 0]

Actually, you should have done more research rather than worry here and there after the reno..

not all unit need fire rated door.. think if its 3m from lift landing, you dont need to put.

ur 38k should be for lots of carpentary , contract item pricing should not be higher than ID..

compare apple to apple.. you could have been few $k worst off if this is an ID..

so u save a few k..

Ha.. actually lah.. but if i know all the info, i wouldn't let them mount the grill to the window oledi loh.. Haa... and i would hv organize my own reno with varies sub-con oledi..

That's why i calling HDB to confirm.

And reason coz previous door was this, so i change this loh.. nothing wrong.. but is correct ok loh.. if not, wha lao.. i die 1st before any1 leh..

Carpentery work is only the kitchen cabinet, box up and cupboard in master bedroom..

Ha.. Yah.. like some had said.. you cannot have the whole cake and eat it..

[fencer 0]

This is how I see it IMHO and I am speaking from experience coz I had to deal with unauthorized renovation works done by my unit's previous owner.

I bought the house as-is and have signed on the dotted line that I accept the house as it is. If there are any unauthorized renovation works done to the unit (i.e. illegal rectifications, missing permits or irregular paperwork), it's ultimately the buyer's responsibility to make sure that this is dealt with in accordance to the provisions of HDB guidelines. So that meant HDB would normally work out with the seller to normalize any illegal works prior to completion date. As far as HDB go, they'll send their technical officer to see see look look and he/she will advise the seller accordingly.

Fencer, as for your case did the technical officer comment anything about the main door after the HDB's first inspection? Although this would not have been communicated to you and only to the seller.

sorry huh.. what's "IMHO"..

nope.. nothing abt the door.. i dun know when is the inspection also.. but i was told is done..

And for others to know.. there is a leak from upstairs and water marks is there.. the HDB officer only comes and check with the standard checklist.. she dun check anything else..

I need to feedback about the leak and she came down again abt weeks later to check.. and weeks dragged on until the prob is fixed.. total abt 2 close to 2 months..

She said she cam down is using the checklist only.. all others no check 1 loh..

And now i'm feedbacking 3rd time the above unit aircon is dripping onto my compressor and i need close window to stop water from coming into the hse... prob everywhere.. suay...

[Supersimon27 2]

And yes Simon.. Henry offered for me to retain the rest of the money until i confirm w HDB..

End story, i nd to call up HDB myself to ask abt the fireproof door. If need to change to fire-proof door, i'm in deeper ****.. e.g can the door frame take the weight of fireproof door? if need replace, need hack frame, tiles etc etc..

I'll keep a small sum for the window and cracked tile.. would seek advice from other ppl..

Holding on to the money to confirm if the window is ok is perfectly reasonable. If BCA /HDB or whoever really confirm the window is not in standard, I think it's yr right not to pay Henry the window. Same go for yr Fired rated door (new issue). But if prove that everything is alright and normal, I think it's more reasonable for u to pay him up (maybe a small deduction if u still unhappy abt the hairline crack tile)

At least it's more reasonable then to ask for a direct 2k deduction from the final bill. (ops did I say something that I shouldn’t again?)