Toa Payoh Blk 79 Kakis

[tension_z 0]

This is like a "after examination" review but final result is out yet.

My reno. journey started in Sept 2007.

(Those who haven't start reno, may read to prevent yourself in lower hand situation in the midst of reno.)

I started looking for ID during Sept when I knew that I was ready for Key in Oct 07.

I went to expo, seen friend's recommendation, even to contractors.

expo to learn some ideas. sat in the 1st booth, was stuck for 2 hours.

ID was a confident and knowlegable guy.

after hearing his sales talk and reno ideas,

I somehow stoned through the rest of the expo ID. (QUOTE PRICE: 26K)

friend's recommendation-gal ID(was the boss actually), nice lady,

gave some ideas about reno, but quite contractor style.

Reasonable price quotation but uses lower quality stuff after comparison.

Drop her as it was a new company and didn't actually like the design,

I pao $50 ang pow to thank her.

She is a nice lady, sometimes I am not sure if it is a wrong choice to drop her.

She listens to your needs and drive you everywhere to see things, draw 2D pictures,

see tiles even before signing the dotted line) Super sincere. (QUOTE PRICE 23K)

3rd ID, my uncle's recommendation.

A contractor I guess but named as an ID firm. Same requirements.

(QUOTE PRICE 19K) you must be wondering, hey 19K, take liao.

No leh... His attitude like I owe him #%^$^&^(.. and he looked sian sian.

that was before signing the contract, I wonder if I can ever find hinm after I sign.

Drop him straight after 2nd meeting.

A lot of people here worry about ID's attitude changes when you sign the line.

well... Most ID are nice before signing, but u think about it, if they don't even bother to be nice in the beginning,

what can happened in the end. So I drop 3rd ID.

4th ID is the funniest ID (hint: near TPY)

ID frankly told me that they are contractors recently turned ID firm.

1st thing, ID show me the package. then tell me, they gave free system 3 aircon, free sink, free tap, free 10 ft kichen cabinet, almost everything going free..was tempted but no confidence.

Ask forum for so long for feedback but seems like no one is on them.

then my ID friends says whatever free is factored into the quote, the design are too standardized as many things are fixed, unless I want a fuss free design, if not, no point. Finally drop this ID when he/she cannot explain why certain material are not like this ( lack of product knowledge I guess)

(QUOTE: 23K with all the freebies)

It was a tough choice. I chose 1st ID with the most expensive quote.

Hoping that I made the right choice.

It was a struggle.

Reason:

1) I signed 1k for the 3d drawings at expo. Not for any free gifts, the free item was merely a hood and hob.

I was bought over by ID's knowledge mainly and the confidence he portrayed.

Perhaps we did click better than the rest of the ID I spoke to.

and ID assured that this 1k can be used for painting job when I decided not to take their design.

I researched in Nippon Ad, and it cost $1100 to paint a 4 rm HDB, so I see no harm.

Friend asked me: " if you just let them take only paint job, do you know how much trouble you are going to forsee?

A pail of paint cost $xx, their bangalah labour cost $XX per day only, you think MR bangalah will touch up paint for you many times, got to paint before carpentary is up, then after carpentary, then final touch up, these can go many rounds. This 1k paint only job may only be a 1 time job. If they are good, they will go up a few times to touch up.

but to rank you (just paint job) and others (on-going whole house reno), who is more important? the Butt has the answer.

(neighbours, please don't sign anything for 3d drawing when you have not confirm anything as it will limit your choice)

some ID firm collect $100 for drawing. Also don't. there are many ID out there who are more than willing to show you for free.

Edited April 6, 2008 by tension_z

[tension_z 0]

so I thought I will see fantasic 3d drawings for the 1k I paid.

before signing for the 1k 3d drawing, I asked my ID, how long would my reno take to complete?

he told me easily 3 weeks.

(that was Oct 31, 2007) I used my butt and think... hmmm...3 weeks, give some time for buffer,

i should move in latest late dec?

Boy, I was so wrong.

Let me explain the situation.

the first 3d drawing came 2 weeks later after signing. ( Mid Nov already)

He drew wrongly (mistaken our idea, so he took back to redraw)

that took another 2 weeks. ( after much chasing, it was end of Nov already)

Pardon me saying this, i understand that a ID takes time to do 3d drawings.

maybe he is serving 3-4 clients at the same time, I totally understand that

but to tell me that my reno will only take 3 weeks to complete is a myth.

He should have told me, drawings take 2 weeks,

+- some changes to drawings takes time,

then 3 weeks start counting from there. Then a consumer like me won't take your 3 weeks literally.

I am not in this trade after all.

so after some discussion about materials and quotation items,

actual signing takes place in end of Nov.

( i didn't even take 1 whole week to think about it but just 3 days to confirm everything hoping works can start soon)

then come bank loan application.

Good thing here is ID company have their own preferred bankers that can speed up the process for applying bank loan,

so this process was fast but something lacking here is

ID should inform me to prepare all my necessary documents when he was still drawing.

He only inform me the night before that I have to prepare payslips, blah blah blah

and asked me not to delay this process.

I did what I was told.

After bank approved, I met ID again.

at this point. if you think 10-40-40-10 payment is the standard practice, yes it is.

Call me stupid, kam gong, do you want to know what was my payment %?

my uncle almost flip when he saw the payment %.

You know why?

it is 25% upon signing contract

35% upon commencement of work

(MEANING BEFORE THEY START WORK) -> BEFORE u see anything in ur house, u paid 60% to ID. <--very bad for consumers

35% upon commencement of the carpentary(AGAIN it is BEFORE u see the carpentary, got to pay 1st)

5% upon completion of work.

those who are on 10-40-40-10 and paid after work done, good for you =)

for my case, I asked my ID, I applied for bank loan and the cheque is under his company's name,company wants to collect all 1st, scare I run away mah? you have my address, how can i run?

HmMmmm...he said he needed the cheque to order materials 1st. I was thinking, your company is such a huge one, can't preorder for client's first? I wonder how the rest of the ID firm can do that.

Ok, trust element here again.

This part though their payment mode suxs, I must say a good word, they will issue a receipt upon payment,

so the carpentary did come up and wet works were done as promised.

Edited April 6, 2008 by tension_z

[tension_z 0]

it is those who quote cheap cheap and ask for 5000 downpayment will have their contractor runaway (my cousin experienced that.) hers was a 5 room standard flat.

Total reno quoted $15 k or something. Then contractor collected 5k and came out with materials but disappeared. zzz.

ok back to my reno.

so u must be thinking that I have moved in, thus have such time to write such long post.

No...sad to say.

1st proposed move-in date: 3rd week of Jan.

Didn't happen due to hacking approval HDB taking 10 sweet days to approve

just to add this point, till today i still don't know why my ID's PE charge $700 for approval when my own PE charge $400. I quoted what my ID told me to my neighbours and PE that he said it was peak period (dec) hence $700.

My PE said BULL ****. I didn't want to say much since i decided to find my own PE, got to do some legwork, calling the PE, fax the floorplan to him and what PE did,

is chop, come and see the hacking, vola, it is done. Maybe the legwork cost $300??

I took cab to PE company and back to ID company to pass back the form cost $25 at most. My friends laughed at me when i have to find my own PE.

HDB approved my hacking on 7 Jan, no one informed me.

ID very automatic, once received notice of approval, hack the wall down without informing me. (there goes my dong tu ceremony)

ID said he forgot, cos he wanted to start work asap.

what done cannot be undone. Just let go.

so ID told me i might have to take the reno as 2 stages.

wetworks before Chinese New Year and Carpentary after CNY.

got must expect some delay.

At that point, his proposed move in date was March latest.

I didn't even ask when. Sort of lost hope.

as I have chosen the tiles in mid dec, when it comes to laying the tiles.

guess what?

they sent the wrong tiles.

I selected a non-print tiles.

when I went to site, the tiler uncle kindly asked me,

do u want to lay vertical ot horizontal, cos it will affect the pattern of the tiles.

I was like..... HUH? I select no pattern tiles, how come it is pattern tiles..

zzz.. so delay again.

lagi best is the tiles that i have selected in mid dec, NO MORE STOCK.

do u know how it feels?

ID said if i want to wait for my original tile,

can only lay after Chinese New year.

then my reno will take forver to finish?? zzz

u might ask me what went wrong here... Id claimed that the supplier wrote down the wrong model number..my uncle asked, will they forget to collect money or collect wrong amount of money?

again, what done cannot be undone.

we are still understanding till this point that ID went all over Singapore as he claimed that whole Sg has no stock.

Guess what?

I went to balestier, just right opposite SBH, I found my original tile and called the ID to see how different is that tile from my original tile.

Sad but is true. It was also a Sunday.

Id said that he can compensate me with a slightly more expensive tile with less obvious pattens and will absorb the extra, so eventually, my light ears went to his advice, after all he is the expert in this field.

[tension_z 0]

and so, tiles are laid.

workers rest for 2 weeks for CNY.

fast forward-----

After CNY, carpentary came.

Hopes picking up.

Things are going fast.

I shall skip the buying lights and accessories process. (dun want to say already)

seems like the last few post are complaints.

well, there were also nice times with ID.

ie he came personally with me to confirm measurement with my bed manufacturer

he bargained real hard for me for my mattress and dining table

he returned calls most of the time ( 90%) <- this is very important

he co0ordinated delivery without me worrying

(though these are his job but we can't take for granted too, and these mostly take place on Sundays- Kudos to ID)

Lights were up, Carpentary were up, walls painted, aircon were up, nice box up was constructed though have to pay at a cost.

things are finally getting in shape.

the last time i went up was April.

Id told me that he wanted to rush for me as he was paiseh that my reno took like more than 3 months...

but the way he rush?

he asked for bed to be delivered when I haven't entirely clean the floor and it was before defects checking date.

It was a huge queen size bed stuck in the middle of MBR.

I appreciated that he asked for all the things to come at 1 go when I was around..but...how to clean? if scratches how?

he said, he will be responsible. HmMmmMmm..

Now the long waiting time.

last thurs was supposed to be handover.

my uncle came over to do defect check.

This is what I wish to ask you neighbours. Is this normal?

My defect list ( to be continued)

Edited April 6, 2008 by tension_z

[jaCKY777 0]

Wow,

din noe dis thread had becum t-blog or watever, read & admire til i blur.

After reading e earlier storys, wonder had i learnt anything?

TenZ,

- remember u asked mi abt ur ID co quite sometime ago?

- i wanted 2 tel u get another ID co, but u had oleady signed with them, so i din wana comment further.

- there bound 2 hav changes in design concept durng e process of consulting, its a matter of shortening e time.

- how? i guess ur ID din really click with u. Or rather, more communication is needed.

Aniway,

- glossy laminate finish for carpentry tends to hav wavy effect, after sometime.

- it olso gota depends on e quality of laminates & e workmanship.

- every surface of every material in e hse wil b subject 2 wear & tear & scratches.

- better quality laminates wil hav lower tendency of warpin & scratches. (ask ur ID)

- better quality laminates hav an extra 'protective layer', which makes e surface more resistance 2 scratches.

- there r olso few new products which r scratch resistance, tested & certified. (ask ur ID)

Aniway,

- sevices duct dat houses watever sanitary soil & waste discharge stack, is for esthetic purposes etc.

- there is a access panel at interval levs, not all unit hav it.

- dis access panel is for maintenance purpose in case...

- chances of opening dis access panel, very slim.

- by rite, all access panels in e unit r not 2b obstructed.

- by left, ...

- imagine e worse scenerio, e access panel need 2b open up due 2 watever reason, wat wil happen 2 ur built-in kitchen cabinet?

- e risk is there. Its whether u wana gamble anot.

[tension_z 0]

My defects list

1) I did my foyer area with small pebbles. U know those park path way type.

Some of the small pebbles came off due to water wash, meaning some pebbles didn't stick well to the cement, so I request tile to fill up those small holes either with pebbles or cement, reasonable?

2) This problem I have discussed before in forum, the bomb shelter featured tic tac door, a bit slanted at the bottom. ID promised to look into it. And it is confirmed that a contractor can make it straight, I am not sure I heard this from where, when they said thin wood are not perfected straight is not true.

3) visible gap in joint line in carpentary, as you can see the brown base, is it normal?

4) untidy wires in florescent lights?

5) kitchen cabinet drawers (roller type), when open together will knocked each other?

6) unlevel wardrobe doors?

7) visible box up line after painiting?

8) holllllllow tiles........

9) a little not straight paint at the top ( the line between wall and ceiling )

ID said HDB wall not straight?

10) Supreme laminated flooring said HDB floor not straight?

heee... all said HDB's fault?

well, at this stage, I don't want to say who is right or wrong,

maybe if anyone of you is kind enough, can let me see your renovated house to see

what's the standard like?

or maybe u list your fair share of defects so that I know mine is just normal or not normal after all.

I don't want to come across as too fussy also don't want to be gong gong.

I want to be understanding to my ID as well and respect his professionalism.

As neighbours, i think we ought to protect ourselves.

My ID is quite a nice chap,

if you have questions to ask him, I think they wouldn't mind.

I can open up my house for ur viewing if you want, mostly there during weekends.

PM me in advance if you want to see.

[tension_z 0]

Wow,

din noe dis thread had becum t-blog or watever, read & admire til i blur.

After reading e earlier storys, wonder had i learnt anything?

TenZ,

- remember u asked mi abt ur ID co quite sometime ago?

- i wanted 2 tel u get another ID co, but u had oleady signed with them, so i din wana comment further.

- there bound 2 hav changes in design concept durng e process of consulting, its a matter of shortening e time.

- how? i guess ur ID din really click with u. Or rather, more communication is needed.

Hey, thanks Jacky777, ya I remembered asking, do you have experience with them (PM me if you have)

I am such a consumer that I won't penalise any ID until the last result is out. Though it can be depressing at times when things just doesn't flow in the right way.

I meant i can understand totally that it is never a 100% smooth journey when it comes to renovation.

as for communication, i think i have done my part.

Id always call for me to inspect the right goods and right measurement before actual work,

time wasted is not here, just those which I mentioned earlier.

Things are usually rectified eventually.

but will sometimes get angry when u think such things shouldn't happen in the 1st place.

[Liana79B 0]

My defects list

1) I did my foyer area with small pebbles. U know those park path way type.

Some of the small pebbles came off due to water wash, meaning some pebbles didn't stick well to the cement, so I request tile to fill up those small holes either with pebbles or cement, reasonable?

2) This problem I have discussed before in forum, the bomb shelter featured tic tac door, a bit slanted at the bottom. ID promised to look into it. And it is confirmed that a contractor can make it straight, I am not sure I heard this from where, when they said thin wood are not perfected straight is not true.

3) visible gap in joint line in carpentary, as you can see the brown base, is it normal?

4) untidy wires in florescent lights?

5) kitchen cabinet drawers (roller type), when open together will knocked each other?

6) unlevel wardrobe doors?

7) visible box up line after painiting?

8) holllllllow tiles........

9) a little not straight paint at the top ( the line between wall and ceiling )

ID said HDB wall not straight?

10) Supreme laminated flooring said HDB floor not straight?

heee... all said HDB's fault?

well, at this stage, I don't want to say who is right or wrong,

maybe if anyone of you is kind enough, can let me see your renovated house to see

what's the standard like?

or maybe u list your fair share of defects so that I know mine is just normal or not normal after all.

I don't want to come across as too fussy also don't want to be gong gong.

I want to be understanding to my ID as well and respect his professionalism.

As neighbours, i think we ought to protect ourselves.

My ID is quite a nice chap,

if you have questions to ask him, I think they wouldn't mind.

I can open up my house for ur viewing if you want, mostly there during weekends.

PM me in advance if you want to see.

Hi tensionz

i tink we both facing the same scenario...reno competion soon...so before handover i want to make sure standards are met but not sure how to check. as mentioned overall looks great to me but i dun want to discount myself and find out defects later after handover then who to take responsibility...

would you like to come by my place and i go to your place to have a look? and those whose reno works competing soon or just completed can we pop by so that we could see the differences?

just a suggestion...not sure if its a gd idea tho

[cece 0]

Hi tensionz

i tink we both facing the same scenario...reno competion soon...so before handover i want to make sure standards are met but not sure how to check. as mentioned overall looks great to me but i dun want to discount myself and find out defects later after handover then who to take responsibility...

would you like to come by my place and i go to your place to have a look? and those whose reno works competing soon or just completed can we pop by so that we could see the differences?

just a suggestion...not sure if its a gd idea tho

Tensionz,

Who is yout ID? Where is he from?

[tension_z 0]

Hi tensionz

i tink we both facing the same scenario...reno competion soon...so before handover i want to make sure standards are met but not sure how to check. as mentioned overall looks great to me but i dun want to discount myself and find out defects later after handover then who to take responsibility...

would you like to come by my place and i go to your place to have a look? and those whose reno works competing soon or just completed can we pop by so that we could see the differences?

just a suggestion...not sure if its a gd idea tho

Hi Liana,

Can lo. We make it this Sat say 11 am at my unit?

same here loh, overall looked fine, my non-experienced father saw the house and thought it was nice.

but on closer look, my contractor uncle shake his head non-stop.

i just want to know if he is too fussy or it is really bad.

Another neighbour is coming over to take a look at my unit after hearing my scenerio.

we can see together if you don't mind. More heads better than one?

can u PM me ur hp number, I will give u mine too. easier to contact.

Tensionz,

Who is yout ID? Where is he from?

hi cece,

sorry I think at this point, I shall keep his identity 1st as this is not final stage of renovation.

I still trust that he is rectifying the defects.

I will post facts here. If he is good, I will share.

If he is not good eventually, i won't recommend.

That's all I can say for now.

[bonkitty 0]

hi bonkitty, so did you remove the 30% hollow tiles? and how long it takes?

it is a Sunday.

I might write a very long post. I didn't finish writing my T-blog, figured out that I have "die heart" updating and no one will surf there w/o photo.

Neigbours, pardon me if I get grumpy, naggy or whatever.

This is a post of mixed feelings actually.

Nothing bad about renovation. Just wanting to know if this is standard practice.

I shall not name my ID firm for the time being, as I still trust them much to give me a wonderful finish to my renovation.

Still doing now...I replace e 30% tiles?

How long should be quite fast at least within a week...

But I muz give credits to my ID....he really help me a lot very responsive and no excuses...

I am ok to drop by ur house to take a look...not sure if my painting work is it as bad as yours...

U can PM me ur unit... will be at my hse on Sat morning

[sushibabe 0]

wah tension_z...read your reno story...you went through alot hor...

nvm, think positive at least it's over and you still got your renovated house...

so, when are you moving in???

[Liana79B 0]

Hi liana78B

Can I see you pics of your reno!

Regards,

Allinthehead

hi allinthehead...

i will post my pics this week ..will let u know

Hi Liana

I also have huge sliding door but only 2, it is quite firm when sliding... dun think it should be flimsy...

hi mrs png do u have a pic of ur huge sliding door? and what is the size??

[tension_z 0]

wah tension_z...read your reno story...you went through alot hor...

nvm, think positive at least it's over and you still got your renovated house...

so, when are you moving in???

I also don't know when I will be moving in.

[howlupjac 0]

Hey,

which door & door frame u r talkin abt? Main entrance dr?

Hi Jacky

Its the MBR door. We intend to shift the MBR door to just before bedrm 2. My ID din mention whether need or not.

I presume you're moving one of the bedroom doors.

The answer is yes. That's what I did.

Hi Euph0bear, yup you got it its the MBR door. Thanks for your reply

Hi howlupjac,

Usually the ID will required to submit for HDB approval, and HDB approval will replied as "Repositioning of internal door at BEDROOM X as shown on plan."

If you are using back the same door, then need more care to ensure that it fit into your new door frame.

Hi Zincy,

Thanks for your advice ! I'll ensure I get this to the ID. Otherwise, its another good chance to let him chop me on getting a new door which will be at least a few hundred bucks

Tks!