Lessons From The Id Selection Process

[Tiler Seng 57]

Yours looks good, mine was slightly different:

10% on signing of contract

40% after finished hacking

25% commencement of wet works (but actual payment was in the midst of wet works)

20% upon completion of carpentry work

5% after handover (1 week afer i moved in)

There is no standard practise of payment terms in this market, so the companys have to draft

to their own preferred terms according to their own company policy.

But i do believed Terms can be discuss among the buyer & supplier within their comfort zone

[Tiler Seng 57]

i am going to start renovating my house soon, and have seen about 10 contractors\id over the past 2 months and understood their quotation. the things i have learnt is that all contractors can do the same things and these are a standard list. but most of them dont give you much design or visuals (except few photos here and there and from magazines). Only one brought me to their customers' house to view (which i wasnt too impressed anyway). So in the end i gather that what differentiates them is thew price and most importantly, the trust factor and capability level. For capability and integrity, you either have to judge yourself, or go with a proven and recommended one. The contractor\id is afterall just someone who oversees the project, which is being outsourced to many other sub-contractors.

well say, in anyway he is the key person to manipulating the whole projects,

so choose wisely of him

[pendulum 0]

<!--quoteo(post=463483:date=Oct 27 2009, 10:40 PM:name=negarawan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (negarawan @ Oct 27 2009, 10:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=463483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just have to exercise our right! I seen cases where ID mark up cost as much as 60% for small items. This is totally unethical.

No badge. Being CASE and volunteer in true consumer woes, you know that you have to set high standard! You get soft hearted, then it is your losses. It is the same i.e. car purchase from PI, buying houses, time shares....etc.

We should start a thread on how much markup ID does on items ;p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Please do!

I have a list of sort-of-cost-price that an ID sent to me by mistake with all the contractor contact and cost price to them and selling price. its a bit messy though.

Hi,Zhiz.

Happened to saw your earlier post.

I am shopping for the reno material now.

Sometimes i saw those better quality materials but cost so much more....

Maybe you list would help me to have a better bargain power. Would u pls pm me?

Thanks a lot!

[Valerie Low 0]

Just wonder when you guys get quotation from ID. Do they actually go to your house to inspect before giving you an exact quotation? or they will just give you a quotation based on your floor plan? If you were to get quotations from many company, does that mean all of them will have to go to your house to view it. Sorry if my questions sound silly. Just to make sure.

[albertchng 0]

Just wonder when you guys get quotation from ID. Do they actually go to your house to inspect before giving you an exact quotation? or they will just give you a quotation based on your floor plan? If you were to get quotations from many company, does that mean all of them will have to go to your house to view it. Sorry if my questions sound silly. Just to make sure.

Those quoted base on floor plan, most likely mark up a lot. The designer my friend assigned to me visited me for site measurement using a laser measuring device to take actual measurement. The quote i'll be getting is very near cost so must be accurate on measurement.

I want...

Homogeneous Tile 900 X 900 for Living, Dining & Bedrooms

Homogeneous Tile 300 X 300 for Kitchen, Bathroom & Toilet

Homogeneous Tile 300 X 600 for Kitchen Wall, Bathroom Wall & Toilet Wall

Water proofing membrane for Kitchen, Bathroom & Toilet

Top Kitchen Cabinet with full Blum servo-drive system (close at a push of button), ABS trimming for doors and polyester internal finishing

Bottom Kitchen Cabinet with full Blum drawer system, ABS trimming for doors and polyester internal finishing

Anti-bacteria Quartz solid top by SilesStone

14 ft Walk In Wardrobe with sliding door

10 ft Shoe Cabinet with sliding door

10 ft Storage Unit with sliding door

Feature Wall in living for 65" LED with spacing saving console and cable management

Feature Wall in Bedroom for 55" LED with spacing saving console and cable management

White powder coated windows and window grill

New Bedroom door + door frame and Bi-fold door for Bathroom/Toilet

Wrought iron main gate

Fire-rated main door

Whole house painting with Nippon Odour-less Easy Wash

Whole house stainless steel water pipe + all water related fitting and fixtures

Whole house electrical rewiring + all electrical related fitting and fixtures

[77suns 0]

Well i just look at this page, so don,t just take my words too seriously and hard.

Valerialow- yes id will just look at the plan and gave u a quote, that goes to everybody cos owners tend to just compare quotes. I'm guilty of this ha ( have been one myself for a decade). So 99% time the quality is unknown as many owner then to think what they see at their show flat is good quality work.

Turtledriver- why not engage him if the id are good and had good, straight honest reason for the delay. But he must response every time u call due the delay!

Pendulum- id make about 20% - 35 max profit. Mostly 20% plus for HDB kind of job.

[ursuladeux 0]

Hi all

Can I just check how do you all decide which ID to go with?

Quotation + draft drawing + visit ID's actual completed unit?

Most IDs i went to just give me quotation and expect me to make decisions, don't even bother to draw any draft at all.

And its quite difficult to get ID to arrange to visit their actual completed or almost completed unit..

[zhiz 4]

I guess that's the reason for me starting my thread, to share what I went through.

After sieving out the ridiculously priced id, I asked the remaining id to show me completed work.

I observed not just the reno but relationship of owner and id. Plus friend recommendation n seeing her completed work, I chose my Id this way

Outcome was smooth reno process n prompt response and retification and at a good prIce

[frostyapple 0]

Hi all

Can I just check how do you all decide which ID to go with?

Quotation + draft drawing + visit ID's actual completed unit?

Most IDs i went to just give me quotation and expect me to make decisions, don't even bother to draw any draft at all.

And its quite difficult to get ID to arrange to visit their actual completed or almost completed unit..

Definitely visit an actual completed unit to check the workmanship. I visited 2 units by 2 different contractors, and I can really see the difference. If the ID tells you he cannot arrange for you, look for another ID.

One advise is to break down the renovation into stages.

This was what I did when I renovated my EA :

My first quotation was only hacking and tiling of 4 bedrooms, 2 toilets, kitchen, painting, etc. The cost was about $20K+. Initial payment was only $2K+. I told the contractor that I have not decided on the kitchen yet. I thought that if I was not happy with the service, I could easily find someone else to do the kitchen cabinet and other works for me.

After all the tiling works are done, I was satisfied with the work and service, so I decided to engage the same contractor to do the kitchen and other works for me. He gave me a second quotation.

I have been reading this forum and found that many people easily spend $50K to $60K at one time. If you don't know whether the contractor is reliable or not, it is not safe to pay so much money at one go. I read about cases in this forum about people being cheated by IDs/contractors, so this is my strategy to minimize losses.

Edited March 2, 2012 by frostyapple

[ursuladeux 0]

Hi zhiz and frostyapple

Thanks for the advice! Yep make sense not to choose Id if they can't arrange for us to see any actual work they have done

[ttnsg 0]

Hi zhiz

Am searching for ID firms to Reno my resale 5i flat. Could you please pm me your ID firm you previously engaged?

[Justgetit 0]

Hi smart_user, can share ur ID contact.

Thanks

[tapilia 0]

Definitely visit an actual completed unit to check the workmanship. I visited 2 units by 2 different contractors, and I can really see the difference. If the ID tells you he cannot arrange for you, look for another ID.

One advise is to break down the renovation into stages.

This was what I did when I renovated my EA :

My first quotation was only hacking and tiling of 4 bedrooms, 2 toilets, kitchen, painting, etc. The cost was about $20K+. Initial payment was only $2K+. I told the contractor that I have not decided on the kitchen yet. I thought that if I was not happy with the service, I could easily find someone else to do the kitchen cabinet and other works for me.

After all the tiling works are done, I was satisfied with the work and service, so I decided to engage the same contractor to do the kitchen and other works for me. He gave me a second quotation.

I have been reading this forum and found that many people easily spend $50K to $60K at one time. If you don't know whether the contractor is reliable or not, it is not safe to pay so much money at one go. I read about cases in this forum about people being cheated by IDs/contractors, so this is my strategy to minimize losses.

What u never tell us is, in the end, do u actually pay more? Everyone knows that the lesser reno works is done, the more expensive it is. And also, the workers who do good at floor tiles, don't mean the carpenter will be good at their carpentry. So in the end, yr strategy might ended up u paying more. This kinda strategy don't 100% works, unless the designer wanna to take the risk. example, the hacking include clearing debris, as stated in my quotation. So after they hack and u not happy, the designer need to wait for u to finish complete project and keep on arrange workers to clear rubbish? So will u pay in full from the start? what if u refuse to pay the remainder at the end. The designer must be having a hard time to entertain u this kinda customer. I wonder when u eat at restaurant, start to find fault, and refuse to pay later bcas it doesn't suit yr taste. i work in service line previously, totally understand this kinda customers. Wanna reno, scared kena cheated. wanna eat fish, scared fish bone, wanna walk, scared fall down. .... speechless

[lejosef 0]

Just wonder when you guys get quotation from ID. Do they actually go to your house to inspect before giving you an exact quotation? or they will just give you a quotation based on your floor plan? If you were to get quotations from many company, does that mean all of them will have to go to your house to view it. Sorry if my questions sound silly. Just to make sure.

finally going to start reno!

i met more than 10 ids and contractors. started with ids first but all charge very expensive, then start to meet contractors. ids usually only quote using floor plan. contractors depend, most will only give quotation after seeing your place. many things are not in the floor plan and some ideas id give cannot work in the house. some contractors very experienced and can tell you what cannot do or what most ppl do. but contractors mostly speak chinese and no 3d drawing.

lessons i learn

1. do your homework! now all young couples get flat don't know anything ids sure see you look like carrot. i don't know anything about renovation when i first meet id. after i read many post and quotes from renotalk you will know the market price of different items, which material good and bad, what to look out for. this is free info, and you can test if your id overcharge or is honest or not.

2. read magazine and surf online, know what you like. it's your own home must feel comfortable or very nice also no use.

3. follow renoblogs, see which house you like and see how people choose id

4. get more quotes meet more ids and contractors. my quotes got range from 40k-80k for similar job.

5. get a contractor/id that you feel like you can trust. see finished projects and get someone that is straightforward.

6. search forum and read reviews before paying! search the company name, id you working with in forum and google, see if got bad reviews or problems. you might be shocked by what you find.

oh and always remember there is no such thing as FOC. if they put FOC must be already included in other places! firms at expo or with bigger showrooms are usually more ex. firms with case trust and hdb registered also more ex.

if no issues with budget can go to big firms with case trust and hdb registered. pay more but should be reliable. but please still do simple forum and google search for reviews. if want cheap want good, do more homework or get recommendations from trusted people around you. quality better see finished projects and talk to other customers feel yourself.

Edited May 14, 2012 by lejosef

[rws 0]

Wish I have read your suggestions earlier. My ID person is terrible. Not honest, not reliable, bad workmanship, used poor material unlike verbally told, can slashed prices automatically if you proved they are charging too much on particular items and forgetful. They can tell you that they will come over the next day to fix unfinished job, but no one will show up the next day and no phone call to update you.