Miele Washing Machines!

[lapena 0]

Just adding my 2 cents worth of opinions, and also to share my experiences to all miele users or would be users on their supposedly out of this world prices for washers n dryers!! I'm not rich, i only buy miele when they have gd bargains or promotions... For everyone's info, Im now using their promotion active care package of honeycomb washer n dryer retailing @$3888.. Not sure if its still retailing because I bought it for 3 mths and the salesguys told me the promotion ending..

This is a write-up by washerhelp.co.uk on this prestigious german family company!!

http://www.washerhelp.co.uk/reviews/miele-overview.html

Miele washing machines: Build quality

This independent review examines the ethos of the washing machine manufacturer Miele, and why they are a lot more expensive than most other washing machines such as Hoover, Hotpoint, Whirlpool and many others.

Reading this review, you could be forgiven for thinking I wrote it specifically to promote Miele. My enthusiasm however is totally genuine and not solicited by Miele in any way.

If you don't want to read the Miele build quality overview, you can go directly to some actual Miele washing machine reviews - Miele W 3740 review | Miele W864 review

Summary

What kind of washing machine would you end up with, if quality and reliability was the main influence on its design and production? You end up with a washing machine that combines the build quality and reliability of products from decades ago, with the sophistication, and energy efficiency of modern technology. The company motto at Miele is, "forever better". They are one of the minority of washing machine manufacturers that decided to build the best product they were capable of, even though to achieve this standard, their product would be amongst the most expensive in the business and the majority of people would be put off by the price. That's what I respect about companies like Miele.

About Miele washing machines

I'd known for years about Miele's reputation for producing some of the quietest, and most reliable washing machines available. I'd not recommended Miele washers to my customers though. I suppose I'd always been put off by the extra cost, and concerns about getting a Miele washing machine repaired if it does go wrong. However, after finally doing some proper research into the declining quality of new washing machines currently on sale, I stared to realise, that in the UK at least, Miele probably make the best washing machine you can buy.

OK, so Miele washing machines seem very expensive. To be fair though, there is a good argument that in the long run, a Miele washing machine is actually cheaper to own than the cheapest washing machine. There's an old saying that springs to mind, "buy cheap, buy twice". If something costs twice as much to buy, but lasts more than twice as long, it's actually cheaper isn't it? It's just the up-front costs that are higher.

Will a Miele washing machine last over twice as long as a cheap one? Well, I can't say for certain, but it should do, (Miele themselves expect their washing machines to last 20 years) and it'll be a lot quieter, more sophisticated and more reliable too.

What's wrong with cheaper washing machines?

The trouble with many washing machines these days, is that their design and reliability seems to be dictated almost entirely by costs. The majority of washing machine manufacturers are fighting out a long running price war, which will probably end up with them all being taken over by large global companies until there are just one or two companies making washing machines worldwide. Already, many apparently competing washing machines are actually owned by the same companies. ( Who owns who? Who really makes your washing machine )

In an ideal world, companies making a product should make it as well as they possibly can, and then sell it at what it costs, plus the profit margin. Unfortunately though, this results in a product costing a lot more than the average person is prepared to pay. So manufacturers usually do it the other way round. They find out or guess what most people will pay and build the product to sell at that price. This usually results in a lot of corners being cut, then as competition increases, these products can become lower and lower in quality until they become rubbish - but most people still buy them because they won't pay for a "proper" one. People usually get what they pay for. Frankly, if you've had nothing but trouble for many years with your washing machines and think they are rubbish, it's possibly because you won't pay up for a good one. To be fair though, most people just don't think of it like this, or aren't even aware that high quality washing machines are available. ( If you're thinking, "what does he mean, I paid a lot of money for my last washing machine?" Read this - If I buy a more expensive washing machine do I actually get a better one? )

The manufacturers who have decided to compete in the most competitive price range, must keep their washing machines strictly within this price range at all costs. As manufacturing costs constantly increase, they daren't pass on the costs to customers. Manufacturing costs constantly have to be cut to maintain the final selling price and stay in the competition. To be fair, many cost savings are achieved with improved manufacturing techniques and other methods, but there's only so far you can go without having to start compromising quality.

What's wrong with the majority of washing machine manufacturers?

Ultimately, the obsession with supplying washing machines at ridiculously cheap prices has resulted in a plethora of virtually throwaway washing machines. These washing machines are noisy in operation, dance around the kitchen, and suffer long known about and totally unnecessary breakdowns.

I've seen mains cables and fill hoses get so short they don't even reach in many situations. Many washing machines now have basic time-locks which make a customer wait two minutes to open the door whereas before they had more sophisticated (and more expensive) systems that let the customer into the machine as soon as it stopped.

Over the last 30 years, I've seen many individual parts getting cheaper - but much poorer in quality. Dozens of metal parts have been replaced by plastic parts, and parts that used to be repaired if a minor fault occurred, now only come as complete items. The worst example of this is when a simple coil goes open circuit on a motor, or a bearing wears. The only option on many of the cheaper washing machines is to fit a whole new motor which costs nearly as much as the machine did in the first place. This, is one of the hidden costs of cheap washing machines.

In fact, many of these manufacturers now appear to rely heavily on the profit from supplying spare parts to make up the shortfall in profit from making the washing machines in the first place. If this is the case, then they don't have much incentive to improve the quality of some of the parts inside.

Of course, if quality was too poor, it could start to get counter-productive, so a suspicion is that many washing machine manufacturers keep their product just reliable enough to keep people buying, but unreliable enough to make lots of profit on the spares. Of course, this could just be an inevitable side effect of trying to keep prices artificially low as discussed here, Do new washing machines have built-in obsolescence?

Are there any downsides to Miele washing machines?

There are two downsides. The first is obvious, and that is cost. A quality washing machine simply costs more. More to buy and more to repair. The second potential downside is that there are very few independent washing machine repairers that repair Miele washing machines, and there is a small percentage who will have a go, but don't have the equipment and knowledge to do it properly. Unless a fault was very simple, they could end up wasting your time and money. At worse they could totally misdiagnose the fault, or lacking the computer laptop and diagnostic software carried by Miele engineers, could be unable to diagnose or even calibrate the machine

[moonlit 0]

Thank you Lapena for your posts about Miele here and in the other thread. Sure helped newbies like me.

Have a few questions about the Miele washer and dryer, hope you can help me out.

1. What are the washer and dryer models for the $3888 promo?

I know the cheapest Miele honeycomb washer (W1714) is around $3180 while the cheapest honeycomb condenser dryer (T7744) cost around $3290. Thus we are talking about a total of approx $2500 difference here!

2. Do you know what are the main differences between the $3888 models and the 2 cheapest models that I've quoted above? I suppose the differences are mainly in the functions?

3. Does the $3888 include GST?

[lapena 0]

Sure,!!! It will be my pleasure.I'm not an expert or anything, just sharing what I know from this fabulous brand!

If U have checked out the miele overseas market, in particular, australia or Uk, there are a whole range of honeycomb models that are not being sold in Sg!And the cost will not be as expensive as the W1714 and T7744 that are sold over here! Actually, my personal opinion is that Miele Sg wants to position itself as highly luxurious at this part of Asia, thus only bringing in higher-end models.Another reason is that the pricing is a little bit higher in Singapore,than lets say Germany or Uk.

After checking out both the specs for the active-care range I found little, or virtually no difference in build quality compared to the predecessors, w1714 or T7744 honeycomb models. The only difference is in their programmes, where shirts, denims and Dark garments are changed to Sportswear, outerwear and proofing in the activecare range, thus the activecare theme for this range.However the minor differenves can be easily tweaked using the rpm and temp to suit your preferences.Another reason might be either exposure because maybe in tiny singapore, there are not too many who will spend $6k on a miele washer/ dryer combi. Thus this limited promotion, which I heard Miele is bringing in limited quantity to test the new market who has not heard of miele yet, or those whose been pushed off by the astronomical prices for a standard w1714 and T7744.MAybe the economic climate also plays a part for their very rare promotions,.But the catch is that this activecare range can onlt be bought in its entirety, that means u cannot split the washer and dryer. U must buy it as a package, individual units are not for sale. If they are it will cost $3k as a single unit too!

So far,I'm loving my miele,.. Hope this helps

[lapena 0]

Hi moonlit, sorry forgot to mention the acticare models are w1740 and T7740. The price is iclusive if gst. Best denki Ngee ann is giving away a miele vacuum worth $408 as well.

[moonlit 0]

thank you thank you... that was a fast reply!

actually I'm currently gathering info for my friend who is too busy to do research and meantime kiv-ing all the info for my own move next year. someone at the other forum mentioned that Miele is launching new model package promo after this one. too bad it's a little early for me to buy the machines now, hopefully when my time comes there will be similar promo. well, hope at least my friend get to benefit from the promo. the free vacuum sounds like a deal!

one more question, besides Best Denki @ Ngee Ann and CK Tangs, do you know where one can get Miele? Can't seem to find the info on their website.

[lapena 0]

thank you thank you... that was a fast reply!

actually I'm currently gathering info for my friend who is too busy to do research and meantime kiv-ing all the info for my own move next year. someone at the other forum mentioned that Miele is launching new model package promo after this one. too bad it's a little early for me to buy the machines now, hopefully when my time comes there will be similar promo. well, hope at least my friend get to benefit from the promo. the free vacuum sounds like a deal!

one more question, besides Best Denki @ Ngee Ann and CK Tangs, do you know where one can get Miele? Can't seem to find the info on their website.

Harvey norman milennia, rina electrical, as well as best denki vivi and imm in smaller ranges like vacuums etc. The most extensive ranges u can see from them is the best denki outlet in ngee ann city and the showroom. For built-in aplliances, try rina electrical, or designer concept kitchens like bulthulp, hugo...

[moonlit 0]

I think each of my post will have to start with a Thank you.

Just thought of a silly question... does one need to have a hot water connection for the washer or the machine heat the water by itself? pls pardon this newbie...

[cromodora 0]

Miele Washing Machines!, Expensive?? probably not..

I beg to differ, especially in Singapore..

The aforementioned washerhelp.co.uk reviewed the midrange W864 and the high end W3740.

The quoted prices were 500UK Pounds and 700UK Pounds respectively.

What is that in Singdollar?

We Singaporeans are always susceptible to being gouged by distributors of premium German brands that

we may think $3888 for their lower end washer dryer bundle is a terrific deal.

Below is an article of interest wrt Miele washers.

The arguments in the comments section make worthwhile reading.

Potentially Restrictive Practices in Miele washing machines

[lapena 0]

Miele Washing Machines!, Expensive?? probably not..

I beg to differ, especially in Singapore..

The aforementioned washerhelp.co.uk reviewed the midrange W864 and the high end W3740.

The quoted prices were 500UK Pounds and 700UK Pounds respectively.

What is that in Singdollar?

We Singaporeans are always susceptible to being gouged by distributors of premium German brands that

we may think $3888 for their lower end washer dryer bundle is a terrific deal.

Below is an article of interest wrt Miele washers.

The arguments in the comments section make worthwhile reading.

Potentially Restrictive Practices in Miele washing machines

Hi Cromodora, I'm surprised U actually rate an Lg higher than a Bosch, electrolux, or Siemens.. Now I'm baffled U had doubts over the Mercedes Brand Miele as well. Anyway the above-mentioned articles by Whitegoods Uk is true! Because in the Uk, and some Eu countries, the repair industry is regulated by a body and a workers union supports it. That means if U stay in the Uk , and u had a brand A washer, it spoils, u need spares and a technician, these body will provide the expertise, n spares can be gotten cheaper due to similars parts and nuts from most brands. However, U can call Miele snobbish, I will say its a gd thing in anycase, they believe that their products can only be best serviced by a Miele technician and their spares are only "exclusively" produced and provided by themselves, that's why they closed the spares and repairs markets to outsiders.

And for ur 2nd point, I have mentioned that in different countries, they bring in different models. In Miele Sg, they brought in the newer models and i do feel they somehow priced the later models higher in Sg too, as i've previously mentioned. However in some countries, taxes are not priced in yet and the warranties are priced differently as well. That's why I mentioned the active care packages is an excellent deal. My german friends commented this package is even similar in pricing to germany itself.

I once got served by a sales staff at a particular electrical store when I went to admire the miele machines. He explained that Miele is expensive, because it's made in Germany and to quote him," u ARE PAYING SO MUCH FOR JUST A BRAMD NAME" ITS ONLY A 6KG MACHINE. LET ME SHOW U THIS BRAND!! ITS HALF THE PRICE, ITS 8KG, IT HAS MORE FEATURES, IT HAS ALLERGIES FUNCTION. .. then pointing to me vividly the allergies wash prgm that's gd for babies. because I'm pushing a stroller with my 8 mth old niece in it. I smiled and walked off. 6 mths later the particular brand that this salesman pushed me to dropped its price by half,...Btw the miele model I see is W1714 and it remains the same price with no discounts given. What does this tells me? I've been using a miele for half my life and I believe millions of users around the world too. It wun garner

" Best brand in Germany, in front of google," by readers digest 2008!

" Which? consumers magazine, Best domestic brand in 08,07, with 11 best buy categories" including washers, dryers, vacs

" Robb Report Best of the Best washer brand 2008"

if their supposedly small 6kg,belt-driven, expensive brand is so much inferior to a 8,9kg brand washer with more features, new technology, and with tendency to drop prices drastically after a yr in the market??

To end my note, I admire and appreciate yours truly, and anyone's views, as it would only help readers with more helpful considerations for their purchases. And I wouldn't slam anyone's views and points. But if like the quoted salesman, U pay top dollars just for a "brand " name, to put down a brand, then that takes serious doubts on the integrity and intents of the perpetrator.

[lapena 0]

Miele Washing Machines!, Expensive?? probably not..

I beg to differ, especially in Singapore..

The aforementioned washerhelp.co.uk reviewed the midrange W864 and the high end W3740.

The quoted prices were 500UK Pounds and 700UK Pounds respectively.

What is that in Singdollar?

We Singaporeans are always susceptible to being gouged by distributors of premium German brands that

we may think $3888 for their lower end washer dryer bundle is a terrific deal.

Below is an article of interest wrt Miele washers.

The arguments in the comments section make worthwhile reading.

Potentially Restrictive Practices in Miele washing machines

I'm sorry i can't help but add some further comments to ur mentioned article in whitegoods Uk, as I needed some time to read the lengthy debates at the forum by the owner and washerhelp's owner as well. I believe this is an unnecessary jibes and point of argumentation, because it just points to their concerns that independant repairman's bodies in the uk May be denied the right to repair a miele machine at a lower cost if the fault diagnostic program in the new washers ca only be read by miele's technicians. In EU they call it a manufacturer's monopoly. However in sg, the syetems worl in a totally different way. If ur bosch machine is spoilt, u call bosch, or the place where u bought them, and they referred to bosch technicians. Likewise for samsung, electrolux, Lg etc.. But if its a cheap machine, maybe u might know some handyman from somwhere, who might be able to repair it by his own accounts, at a cheap rate maybe. However I believe if someone pays top dollar for a miele, u would rather a professional technician from miele to repair it, not some uncle from a D.I.Y shop. Likewise if ur BMW needs repair, u will go to a BMW workshop.

What i meant to insinuate is, this is a totally wrong point of argument. In Sg, we work in different dynamics and the whole thread in the Uk whitegoods forum is based on the repair industry.By adding the link to ur comments, u r like using another poison to poison the wrong part of the body. In any case, id u read carefully the threads, Mr washerhelp and Whitegoods both cemented thir affirmation to Miele's 20yrs quality promise. It's just disappointment that maybe in future only miele technicians, and not independant repairmen can repair miele machines. And it's not related in ur comments and opinions as well. Thank you

[cromodora 0]

Let me try to keep it short and sweet.

Pay $3000 for a Miele washer.

You get quality that is made to last 20 years.

1. Why is the warranty only 1 year then?

2. What happens after one year. If a problem crops up, is it cheaper to repair than ordinary machines? Do I save there?

3. Say a $1000 washer needing a $800 repair. Will that owner feel worse than a Miele owner needing an $800 repair.

4. Is a 20 year old Miele like my grandfather's hammer?

My father changed the head when it was passed down to him.

I changed the handle when it was passed down to me.

Oddly, it is still referred to as My grandfather's hammer.

I don't understand your poison-poison point.

The comments in my link were made by the same guy who wrote the glowing Miele piece that you quoted wholesale in your OP.

You don't see the relationship in my link to your paean to Miele?

Let me sum up:-

After paying top dollar for the product at first, be prepared to pay top dollar if things go wrong.

Miele is making it such that all the top dollar must only go to them.

You claim you are not rich...

Nah.. don't be modest.

[lapena 0]

Let me try to keep it short and sweet.

Pay $3000 for a Miele washer.

You get quality that is made to last 20 years.

1. Why is the warranty only 1 year then?

2. What happens after one year. If a problem crops up, is it cheaper to repair than ordinary machines? Do I save there?

3. Say a $1000 washer needing a $800 repair. Will that owner feel worse than a Miele owner needing an $800 repair.

4. Is a 20 year old Miele like my grandfather's hammer?

My father changed the head when it was passed down to him.

I changed the handle when it was passed down to me.

Oddly, it is still referred to as My grandfather's hammer.

I don't understand your poison-poison point.

The comments in my link were made by the same guy who wrote the glowing Miele piece that you quoted wholesale in your OP.

You don't see the relationship in my link to your paean to Miele?

Let me sum up:-

After paying top dollar for the product at first, be prepared to pay top dollar if things go wrong.

Miele is making it such that all the top dollar must only go to them.

You claim you are not rich...

Nah.. don't be modest.

Hmm. What I'm saying is this, to keep it plain and simple, as to benefits other readers.

with references to ur articles,Miele is making it such that all the top dollar must only go to them

. Miele only repairs their products by themselves. Isn't that the case in Sg with regards to most brands?? as u said I pay top dollar for my miele, I will want them to repair. No relevance.

1). Why is the warranty only 1 year then?

Well Miele advertises universally their products lasts for 20 yrs, I'm just endorsing my belief on their quality. They never gave 20yrs warranty. In Uk they packaged with 7yrs warranty ,with additional taxes. Similarly in US, 10yrs. It depends on them. I queried with them when they first came over on the disparity on warranties given between countries, but I could not get the answer as well, but I figured maybe the market is too small in sg. I could not argue, as most brands either give 1 or 2 yr warranties. However pl do take note, lets say a w1714, u buy in the Us with 10 yr warranty compared to a w1714 u buy here with 1 yr warranty, they are both made in germany from the same factory. Is the Sg one that u bought inferior in quality?? Of course everyone will be happier if its 20 yrs warranty, but even rolls rioyce don't give u 20 yrs warranty. Its just a claim from them, their belief, their promise, that their products lasts that long! Its up to u to believe it. Btw my old miele lasts only 17 yrs!

2)What happens after one year. If a problem crops up, is it cheaper to repair than ordinary machines? Do I save there?

I can't answer that question for u. But for a fact, yes, german parts are more expensive than cheap parts. a suspension from miele is around $500, the last I'm quoted. In any case, Miele has been proven to be the brand that require least repairs,according to Which? consumer mag. I started this thread for the purpose of telling, informing, sharing my love and facts about Miele.And also to my believe that its not really expensive if U buy the right models or during promotional times. and with the quality I belief its better than changing a cheap machine every few yrs.Whether U believe me, subscribe to the belief, is ur choice. U can argue that No, now miele spoils after 1 yr, and we can argue till the cows are back, and it don't prove a point.

3) Say a $1000 washer needing a $800 repair. Will that owner feel worse than a Miele owner needing an $800 repair.

If any machines spoilt, nobody feels gd, regarless of the price. But a Miele, at least to me, duravility is part of their promise!! This I respect. The gentleness and quality to the washing is just another part of the package, which me, as well as many users, consumer magazines, reviewers likewise, appreciates and love! But if u don't, I respect u for ur choices and reasons.

To cap it off, I believe in anything u buy, there are bad experiences to go with gd experiences as well. There must have been a Miele user somewhere that feels the quality is not worth the prices, and there are users like me, who feels they are worth any penny spent. I won't go around criticizing a BMW owner that a toyota can get u anywhere and is reliable, why spurge on a BMW? Its a consumers choice after all!

[lapena 0]

I think each of my post will have to start with a Thank you.

Just thought of a silly question... does one need to have a hot water connection for the washer or the machine heat the water by itself? pls pardon this newbie...

Hi moonlit, pardon for the late reply. No, u dun need a hot water connection as miele has an internal heater in the washer itself.

[cromodora 0]

. Miele only repairs their products by themselves. Isn't that the case in Sg with regards to most brands?? as u said I pay top dollar for my miele, I will want them to repair. No relevance.

Ask a BMW owner if it is alright if BMW make them service his car only at Performance even after the warranty period has passed.

Parts and service light reset will not be available anywhere else.

Not even at BVO.

Tell them, after all, they can afford BMW.

Why should they mind?

So having paid top dollar for your machine, you are willing to pay top dollar for repair.

Tell me again why did you say...

Miele Washing Machines!, Expensive?? probably not..

[lapena 0]

. Miele only repairs their products by themselves. Isn't that the case in Sg with regards to most brands?? as u said I pay top dollar for my miele, I will want them to repair. No relevance.

Ask a BMW owner if it is alright if BMW make them service his car only at Performance even after the warranty period has passed.

Parts and service light reset will not be available anywhere else.

Not even at BVO.

Tell them, after all, they can afford BMW.

Why should they mind?

So having paid top dollar for your machine, you are willing to pay top dollar for repair.

Tell me again why did you say...

Miele Washing Machines!, Expensive?? probably not..

Maybe for the benefits of myself, the positives, the lifespan it has served me, the assurance my "expensive" clothes won't tear in the washer, the ease of use, and the excellent guarantee that for 20yrs after end of production of any products, there will be spares available, I deemed it Not Expensive!

This is my personal views and its for the purpose of exchanging views and thoughts that I posted for the relevance of others. My thoughts and comments are not a penal code. If it helps some readers, thats great as I served my objectives.If its of no relevance to some, I'm sorry for taking the time to read. Maybe u r in the wrong thread.Of course, miele wouldn't be miele if its cheap and available everywhere. If u feel otherwise, I respect your choices and views but pls don't slam others.

Actually for most of ur questions and arguments, Ive really answered or try my best to answer in my threads already. I said there are some models from miele on promotion which is a great buy, compared to the regular models. and to some readers who feel miele is out of their reach, I recommended some alternative brands which is not too bad, at least in my personal opinions. But you come out and say, No, Miele not worth it for the price, electrolux no good, bosch no good. Ya Lg is the better brand compared to all. I don't have a vendetta, at least not against you or any other brands. But do you??