Glossy Floor Tile Problem

[eiffel76 1]

my buffing didnt went so well.it remained the same.looks better a an angle when light is casted onto it but when it's under the shadow as you walk pass. my mum's 30yr old kitchen wall tile looked better then it.infact it got slightly worse as the process will strip away the top layer or the tile. end up. my grouting is currently all higher then all my tile.and suprisingly the paint splatter on the tiles still remained there when i asked if i should manually remove it first,they brushed me off saying it'll JUST COME OFF after they buff. yeahhh rite..

i seriously think the gungho buffer machine is for show only. its just a simple machine turning a pc of microfibre and they can tell me the chemical will drain out the stains etc blah blah blah. already told my id,i'll expect a things to get done fast or will consider action. after today it doesnt matter as my tiles are a goner.no amount of discount will make me live with it. i know its not their fault & it saddens me to if it turns ugly. but hey,i am not paying them just to call their sub-cons. i expected better.

after looking at your pics, think we have exactly the same issue there. white patches below the tile glossy surface. mine was white glossy tile so i really cant get it to show on pics. btw, you mean those were black glossy tiles??? its doesnt have the slightest color of 'black' at all. gosh.

thoughout the weeks, i had seek about 5 other views from various professional ID/contractors & even building companies. some say it's the wax seeping into the tile surface due to manufacturing defects, some say due to lousy cement used below the tile being absorbed into it,but that would mean the tile is lousy actually too. Some said it's due to improper cleaning,eg acid wash. frankly i suspect our tiles are due to manufacturing defects+acid wash. usually cleaners will still add small amount of acid to make their job easier.all the ppl i asked admited they do used a small amount for best effect eventhough they know they arent suppose to. and with that small amount + slight defects = relay tile. it will happen down the road too even if not now.

but one thing in common that everyone of them said was... you gotta settle it with the contractor/ID. the tile shop will never honour any responsibility unless your contractor has like thousands of orders with them.even still,all they will do is...give you a batch of similar tiles.they will not bear any damage done. the hacking & labour still needs to be done all over again,and this usually is bear by the contractors. home owners bear the incoveniece casued. and that was the best anyone will even do for us,IF they even cared about their reputation as name/location changing of company will cost less then that.. some will just ignore us & go earn more money to pay us later while we go through long legal means to get a few ks back.

what i can suggest to you is. do a test. i'll be doing that too tomorrow, if you have the same tile still. subject it to acid. it'll prove if its due to the acid or manufacturing.

hi by right acid shouldnt cause such problems...the acid is supposed to clean up the tiles surface (chemical wash)...i jus did myself (long story - my contractor stalled on my job for more than 3 mths and I had to change him). so far so good, it managed to remove the "dull" wax and brought out the shine for my homo tiles...incl removing all the paint traces and stains effortlessly...

i suspect ur case could be a tiles quality problem...causing seepage and hence the damage...

i also learnt reno the hard way....spent the past 3 days (labour day long wkend) with my wife scrubbing and rectifying the issues left behind by my contractor...and i also had some issues with tiles when my contractor act ran out of tiles and played some game telling me diff shipment may hv diff pigments and colour (even tho same colour code and model no), in the end i had no choice but to accept whatever tat is alr done....then comes the quality issue as well, as i almost wanted to buy cheaper tiles from a warehouse (like @1.90 psf homo tiles) cos i thought "they are all the same one la" ...how wrong was i...

[DoubleJ 0]

hi by right acid shouldnt cause such problems...the acid is supposed to clean up the tiles surface (chemical wash)...i jus did myself (long story - my contractor stalled on my job for more than 3 mths and I had to change him). so far so good, it managed to remove the "dull" wax and brought out the shine for my homo tiles...incl removing all the paint traces and stains effortlessly...

i suspect ur case could be a tiles quality problem...causing seepage and hence the damage...

i also learnt reno the hard way....spent the past 3 days (labour day long wkend) with my wife scrubbing and rectifying the issues left behind by my contractor...and i also had some issues with tiles when my contractor act ran out of tiles and played some game telling me diff shipment may hv diff pigments and colour (even tho same colour code and model no), in the end i had no choice but to accept whatever tat is alr done....then comes the quality issue as well, as i almost wanted to buy cheaper tiles from a warehouse (like @1.90 psf homo tiles) cos i thought "they are all the same one la" ...how wrong was i...

wax is common issue. you can spend about 100+ for them to wash it off with their machines acutally. the problem with my tiles is more 'internal'. my shine is still there. it reflects as a perfect sqaure brightly. but once you view it at an angle maybe about 4-5 step away, you'll see all the ugly patches. i need just to stand outside my main door and look at a living room full of patchy tiles.

yeah, i was thinking its more towards a combination of 2 problems, tile quality+acid. usually the small amount of acid they use to ease their job and get a better 'cleaning' effect will not affect it so much. but add in a lousy tile prone to seepage and acid diluting the wax... the result is catastrophic.

just had a heaty argument with my contractor,actually they were the one that lost their temper.i just quiet lo. now i really wonder why i can take their attitude,mother,father all scold. maybe they caught me on a good day i guess. dunno why ppl can be so lame. they were the one that said let the tile shop try first. now they tell me as i let the tile shop try first there is nothing left they can do for me,how lame is that. so when i retaliate by listing out every single point & turn of event all pointing the finger at them. they simply lost their cool. haiz, guess its time to turn ugly liao. anyway, would advise anyone doing their reno to open dated cheques from the 2nd payment onwards. there are always stuff that no matter what amount of discount cannot overwrite & stuffs no matter how established a company is will not rectify.

[Honeygal 1]

hi by right acid shouldnt cause such problems...the acid is supposed to clean up the tiles surface (chemical wash)...i jus did myself (long story - my contractor stalled on my job for more than 3 mths and I had to change him). so far so good, it managed to remove the "dull" wax and brought out the shine for my homo tiles...incl removing all the paint traces and stains effortlessly...

i suspect ur case could be a tiles quality problem...causing seepage and hence the damage...

i also learnt reno the hard way....spent the past 3 days (labour day long wkend) with my wife scrubbing and rectifying the issues left behind by my contractor...and i also had some issues with tiles when my contractor act ran out of tiles and played some game telling me diff shipment may hv diff pigments and colour (even tho same colour code and model no), in the end i had no choice but to accept whatever tat is alr done....then comes the quality issue as well, as i almost wanted to buy cheaper tiles from a warehouse (like @1.90 psf homo tiles) cos i thought "they are all the same one la" ...how wrong was i...

you are right to point out the seepage - coz i realise the tiles only get worse each time i mop/wash them. there are obvious patches of water stains. if only after 1 month of washing the tiles are in this condition, wonder what will happen in 1 year?

[Honeygal 1]

my buffing didnt went so well.it remained the same.looks better a an angle when light is casted onto it but when it's under the shadow as you walk pass. my mum's 30yr old kitchen wall tile looked better then it.infact it got slightly worse as the process will strip away the top layer or the tile. end up. my grouting is currently all higher then all my tile.and suprisingly the paint splatter on the tiles still remained there when i asked if i should manually remove it first,they brushed me off saying it'll JUST COME OFF after they buff. yeahhh rite..

i seriously think the gungho buffer machine is for show only. its just a simple machine turning a pc of microfibre and they can tell me the chemical will drain out the stains etc blah blah blah. already told my id,i'll expect a things to get done fast or will consider action. after today it doesnt matter as my tiles are a goner.no amount of discount will make me live with it. i know its not their fault & it saddens me to if it turns ugly. but hey,i am not paying them just to call their sub-cons. i expected better.

after looking at your pics, think we have exactly the same issue there. white patches below the tile glossy surface. mine was white glossy tile so i really cant get it to show on pics. btw, you mean those were black glossy tiles??? its doesnt have the slightest color of 'black' at all. gosh.

thoughout the weeks, i had seek about 5 other views from various professional ID/contractors & even building companies. some say it's the wax seeping into the tile surface due to manufacturing defects, some say due to lousy cement used below the tile being absorbed into it,but that would mean the tile is lousy actually too. Some said it's due to improper cleaning,eg acid wash. frankly i suspect our tiles are due to manufacturing defects+acid wash. usually cleaners will still add small amount of acid to make their job easier.all the ppl i asked admited they do used a small amount for best effect eventhough they know they arent suppose to. and with that small amount + slight defects = relay tile. it will happen down the road too even if not now.

but one thing in common that everyone of them said was... you gotta settle it with the contractor/ID. the tile shop will never honour any responsibility unless your contractor has like thousands of orders with them.even still,all they will do is...give you a batch of similar tiles.they will not bear any damage done. the hacking & labour still needs to be done all over again,and this usually is bear by the contractors. home owners bear the incoveniece casued. and that was the best anyone will even do for us,IF they even cared about their reputation as name/location changing of company will cost less then that.. some will just ignore us & go earn more money to pay us later while we go through long legal means to get a few ks back.

what i can suggest to you is. do a test. i'll be doing that too tomorrow, if you have the same tile still. subject it to acid. it'll prove if its due to the acid or manufacturing.

i have a few pieces of sample tiles so i will do a test. what kind of acid do you use to test?

[DoubleJ 0]

asked for a bit of the chemical the cleaners used last time they were here. trying to see if it will produce the current condition of my tiles after i applie it to the original conoditioned tile. if it does, the next time my contractor starts yaking, will just show him the tile lo. that will be enough to shut thier crap up. they can seek damage from tile shop or cleaning company. dont care how,we as home owners already endure the lost of use.for me, 7 months and counting. champion liao. everyone asking why so long. the bunglow beside our usual lunching place also completed building and furnished up liao.

did anyone managed to sue their contractor?care to share your experience please?

[eiffel76 1]

i have a few pieces of sample tiles so i will do a test. what kind of acid do you use to test?

i can take a look at the acid i used and let you know wat it is.

its at my new house...i wil prob drop by next 2 days..

[DoubleJ 0]

just did my polishing today....again. this time by my contractor's appointed guy. guess what i saw they are using the same machine like the tile company.haha. was thinking no hope liao. same thing again..but they buff/polish up the tiles till so shiny it's like showroom tile. but the patches still remain below la...just not so obvious to the wandering eye. really wonder if it can be called rectified even, more like covering the flaws with blinding light. but am suprised they are able to do a better job then the tile company. it's really so shiny under even low light enviroment(gloomy day today).

after the polishing, they like 'burnt' quite a number of tiles leaving behind big patchs of scars. arranging them to come back again on monday too see if it's permernant. if permernant, think i still gotta remove the tiling. pengz. it really not too hard to belive my reno took 7mths and counting with all these crap after crap hor.

i was told by some of the ppl i knew in the 'reno industry' that tile company hardly warrant anything. they are quite suprised LSH actually came to adressed the issue. but after their first attempt to fix the problem, it seems like they deemed they had did their part and no longer wanna offer me any form of support already. they advise to settle amically with my contractor. but i guess that's pretty useless for my case since mine already 'turn-face' liao. they were also suprised mine still is keeping up with me as the sub-cons really screwed them up with all the sub-standard work. they told me frankly they themselves would had left owners to fend for themselves already cos sure lose money de so better run away faster as not to lose time too. so i guess mine still ok ba. they themselves are the victim too. but we paying $ + victim. we more 'cham' leh.

honeygal: You interested to engage the polishing/flooring guys? i'll pass you their contact as the boss and i actually had quite a long chat about tile problems. till now they were the only ones that told me they KNEW what happened and can help me with it. but they arent willing to tell me who is at fault for my tile issue as to not offend my contractor or anyone. so i respect their choice lo. but they do know what they are doing so you can consider getting them to have a look at your problem maybe. i'll be keeping their contact too as their polishing and attitude is very very good. they actually QAed their own job end of day and worked OT to give it another go. defiently a keeper.

Edited May 8, 2009 by DoubleJ

[kewin 0]

so what is the root cause, is it the chemical wash?

[DoubleJ 0]

no idea, they aint telling,even if they did point their finger in any direction. i belive i'll get smoked again when i confront. you know la, they can taichi around cos we dont have concrete proof too. it's all just words.

but from what i gather, nowdays tiles not as good as before, so they usually avoid any chemical for glossy tiles. out of the 2 cleaning company i encounter, all stated they dont 'chemical' glossy tiles much already,wash with clean water only. those matt tile are generally still ok for chemical. and i asked if the floor detergent i brought is ok, they tell me to use diluted mama-lemon for my glossy tile instead. keep the detergent for kitchen/toilet only. but well, was talking to the boss so maybe its corperate answers lo.even if his worker wanna make their job easier and used some chem..who knows.

[Honeygal 1]

just did my polishing today....again. this time by my contractor's appointed guy. guess what i saw they are using the same machine like the tile company.haha. was thinking no hope liao. same thing again..but they buff/polish up the tiles till so shiny it's like showroom tile. but the patches still remain below la...just not so obvious to the wandering eye. really wonder if it can be called rectified even, more like covering the flaws with blinding light. but am suprised they are able to do a better job then the tile company. it's really so shiny under even low light enviroment(gloomy day today).

after the polishing, they like 'burnt' quite a number of tiles leaving behind big patchs of scars. arranging them to come back again on monday too see if it's permernant. if permernant, think i still gotta remove the tiling. pengz. it really not too hard to belive my reno took 7mths and counting with all these crap after crap hor.

i was told by some of the ppl i knew in the 'reno industry' that tile company hardly warrant anything. they are quite suprised LSH actually came to adressed the issue. but after their first attempt to fix the problem, it seems like they deemed they had did their part and no longer wanna offer me any form of support already. they advise to settle amically with my contractor. but i guess that's pretty useless for my case since mine already 'turn-face' liao. they were also suprised mine still is keeping up with me as the sub-cons really screwed them up with all the sub-standard work. they told me frankly they themselves would had left owners to fend for themselves already cos sure lose money de so better run away faster as not to lose time too. so i guess mine still ok ba. they themselves are the victim too. but we paying $ + victim. we more 'cham' leh.

honeygal: You interested to engage the polishing/flooring guys? i'll pass you their contact as the boss and i actually had quite a long chat about tile problems. till now they were the only ones that told me they KNEW what happened and can help me with it. but they arent willing to tell me who is at fault for my tile issue as to not offend my contractor or anyone. so i respect their choice lo. but they do know what they are doing so you can consider getting them to have a look at your problem maybe. i'll be keeping their contact too as their polishing and attitude is very very good. they actually QAed their own job end of day and worked OT to give it another go. defiently a keeper.

glad to hear your problem is somewhat rectified

yes please pass me the contact asap. how much did you have to pay for the polishing? how long did the polishing take? does it mess up the whole place?

[Honeygal 1]

no idea, they aint telling,even if they did point their finger in any direction. i belive i'll get smoked again when i confront. you know la, they can taichi around cos we dont have concrete proof too. it's all just words.

but from what i gather, nowdays tiles not as good as before, so they usually avoid any chemical for glossy tiles. out of the 2 cleaning company i encounter, all stated they dont 'chemical' glossy tiles much already,wash with clean water only. those matt tile are generally still ok for chemical. and i asked if the floor detergent i brought is ok, they tell me to use diluted mama-lemon for my glossy tile instead. keep the detergent for kitchen/toilet only. but well, was talking to the boss so maybe its corperate answers lo.even if his worker wanna make their job easier and used some chem..who knows.

i am quite sure the Kiwi Kleen Floor Tile cleaner destroyed my tiles, since it is a no rinse type. when i left the bottle (its bottom was wet) overnight on the floor tile, it left a permanent mark on the floor after that. can't get rid of that stain even now, despite repeated scrubbing.

[hello88 2]

i am quite sure the Kiwi Kleen Floor Tile cleaner destroyed my tiles, since it is a no rinse type. when i left the bottle (its bottom was wet) overnight on the floor tile, it left a permanent mark on the floor after that. can't get rid of that stain even now, despite repeated scrubbing.

since its a small part, maybe u can try to use the magic block to clean the stain.

[DoubleJ 0]

Honeygal: i'll be meeting the guy on monday to show him the tiles they had left the 'burn marks'. will give him some heads up first before passing you his number. maybe your can try giving your original tile a coat of kiwi on the surface and leave it to dry and see if it causes the exact same result? the color change from glossy black to your current brown is really quite drastic. btw, i brought the similar brand too. and when i ask if i can use it to clean my tiles,the guy was like twitching his face and said better not. haiz,super glossy..super headache. Edited May 9, 2009 by DoubleJ

[Honeygal 1]

since its a small part, maybe u can try to use the magic block to clean the stain.

thanks, as you can see from the pics, almost every tile is stained (probably water or detergent stain). it is not just the wet bottle stain. looking for an easier and semi perm way to get rid of the stains.

[Honeygal 1]

Honeygal: i'll be meeting the guy on monday to show him the tiles they had left the 'burn marks'. will give him some heads up first before passing you his number. maybe your can try giving your original tile a coat of kiwi on the surface and leave it to dry and see if it causes the exact same result? the color change from glossy black to your current brown is really quite drastic. btw, i brought the similar brand too. and when i ask if i can use it to clean my tiles,the guy was like twitching his face and said better not. haiz,super glossy..super headache.

thanks, how much did you pay for his services?