A Guideline For All House Owners (new)

[Ami 0]

Yeah! I agree!! All contractors will sound very sincere before you officially sign on the dotted line! No matter how comfortable you feel, don't trust completely until you see their works...

[pinkpetter 0]

ya... also always rem even if the company has a good rep, a lot of things depend on the ID that you have.. it's looking for a suitable ID/contractor that is the most impt wor.

Ami, seems like you had a bad exp with yours... you changed your signature... share share?

[johnnyong 0]

Yeah! I agree!! All contractors will sound very sincere before you officially sign on the dotted line! No matter how comfortable you feel, don't trust completely until you see their works...

Wow.. you seem to be unhappy about Impress 21.. what is wrong??

Did you trust them too much? I tell you.. they will sure promise you a lot of things. Say this one can, this can.. All can. ..All can.. trust me , trust me. They will compared other company..

Just to point out, when you make friends or have COMPLETE TRUSTED with Contractors/IDs, they tend to

1) Delay the work schedule , trying to find excuses say their workers today have to rush here and there.

2) Add unforeseen / hidden COSTS during the work. I believed everyone had encountered this whereby they have to add in this, add in that. Ask them to do some extra like fixing lightning, they will say need to charge.

3) Select lower costs materials, and sometimes what you select is not what you get. May sure you follow them closely when you in the tiles factory/shop, or get the sales person to explain the tiles what is the different, how you tell. E.g. Laminated Flooring, supposed to be AC5 but they quietly install AC3

4) Get payment first and always requested you to pay first for that and this. Make sure, when go hardware/lightning shop, do not give them any money in advance. No Such thing to help you buy first.

Edited December 10, 2008 by johnnyong

[pinkpetter 0]

Is it? I tot she's not happy with the contractor from Beauty World...

[de_Pierre 0]

Hi johnnyong,

1) Delay the work schedule , trying to find excuses say their workers today have to rush here and there.

Schedules n timming can't be fixed dead. Eg. Tml is ur installation of toilet accessories sets, then suddenly

these plumbers receive a call from other customer stating got burst pipes? Where shall they heed 1st?

2) Add unforeseen / hidden COSTS during the work. I believed everyone had encountered this whereby they have to add in this, add in that. Ask them to do some extra like fixing lightning, they will say need to charge.

U already mentioned "EXTRA". Extra works shouldn't be charged? Unforeseen/ Hidden costs? Which hse doing major reno works doesn't have it? Hidden cost can be used on those contractors whose mainly with low ethics. Eg. Contractor quoted whole hse re-piping works for resale flat, existing pipe is hidden behind some false ceilings. To do the right way, false ceiling needs to be dismantle partially to enable dismantling n re-piping to take place, then rectify the false ceilings again.

R u going to blame the contractor for tis extra costs? Whereby contractors usually had only a chance to glance through ur place to deliver ur quotes. Only after confirmation of contract, then they can look into detailings. Which contractor will spend days in ur hse to oversee these 'hidden costs' before contract???

3) Select lower costs materials, and sometimes what you select is not what you get. May sure you follow them closely when you in the tiles factory/shop, or get the sales person to explain the tiles what is the different, how you tell. E.g. Laminated Flooring, supposed to be AC5 but they quietly install AC3

Well, all these materials is usually got from suppliers. Wad u chose is wad u get. If u dun trust ur contractors, then y engage them? U afraid of cheatings, black n white is always available before arrival of materials.

4) Get payment first and always requested you to pay first for that and this. Make sure, when go hardware/lightning shop, do not give them any money in advance. No Such thing to help you buy first.

Felt not comfortable by placing minor cash wif contractors? U can do the payments or purchasing urself by making the trips to these shops. But r u prompt enuf to do all these? Wat if u delay the works indirectly? Well, ur contractor offers his service by helping u!

No doubts u had bad experiences wif ur contractors, he/she might had done something not right... I'm sorry for u... But ur comments here will greatly affect those 'true' contractors whose willing to present their upmost services... To compare wif these small cash wif ur reno budgets, which is more optimistic for cheats?

U might have mislead our fellow forumers who's a layman in reno...

不要为了一个人而打翻阵艘船的人。。。

(i just wan to reason out here, pardon me for my straight comments)

Edited December 10, 2008 by de_Pierre

[yokoyoko 0]

I believe that there are still pretty a few good contractors/IDs ard... i think johnny is just having a bad exprience and wants to cautious the rest of us here and true indeed there are a few..

What Pinkpetter said are right.. gd firm does not mean gd ids/contractors... .. if can, try to find de boss to do yr unit... they will care abt their coy more den the workers.. normally la...

btw every ids/contractor and their coy will 'absorb' commission from any projects they gt..thats y prices are always jacked up before hand.. thats the real world...

[johnnyong 0]

Let me tell you what has happened... Because I too trusted the ID/Contractors.. this what she/he give

1) When they apply for HDB permit to hack the floor and wall tiles, they never give three days notice to my neighbours or even stick any paper before my level and the life basement level. Neighbour complaint to HDB Town Council and Police Station.. My Contractor/ID apologized to them and had to stop work for that day.

How can a CONTRACTOR/ID be so clumsy not to stick notice in advance before hacking comments. Is it a silly mistake?

All Forum Members, make sure before your house is going to start hacking, make sure the advance notice is placed 3 days in advance.

2) My laying of floor tiles is is uneven, I encountered same experience with one of the fellow member here. My Contractor/IDs, claim to hack the surface. I had to ask them to rectify and my Contractor/ID keep saying the floor tiles material is no good. In the first place, my Contractor/IDs is the one who advised this wall tiles is suitable for my house. I seek and ask my friend's Contractor/IDs for opinion, he told me the surface not hack deep enough. That why all the floor tiles is uneven.

3) Contractor quote me hacking of skirting while Supreme Laminated Company say it is free. How disappointing.. if my Contractor/ID hack the floor and remove the skirting by doing cement screed than never mind. At least I understand.

I felt cheated at the moment, as my CONTRACTOR/IDs quote me hacking of skirting (overlay my existing bedroom, and yet it is free services from Supreme Laminated Company)

4) Written Black & White, my contractor/ID explain to me no HIDDEN COST. In the end, he quote me a lot of extra thing. I was so surprised..

5) I want to shift one of my bed room door and required to hack the wall and also cover up the bed room door. He can quote me ridiculous pricing up to $1000 extra. Even do to water pipe... I told Contractor/IDs, I want to install the cold and hot pipe, and Contractor/IDs never even bother. Only mention can install after the wall tiles is laid, is this the correct way.

[kewin 0]

1) Since your floor tiles is uneven, what are you going to do next?

2) How about skirting, is your contractor/id going to refund you?

[de_Pierre 0]

Hi Johnny, i would like to give some comments...

1) Its the Contractors fault for not putting up the Notice for Permit by HDB. Its not a mistake, he's too irresponsible n unprofessional! tis is the most simple knowledge n a must for all contractors.

The sub-con for doing the hacking works also bear some fault here, they start hacking w/o checking the notice for renovations.

2) As u should know, Tiles r bought from suppliers. No doubt its a true fact tad tiles might be faulty in sense of uneveness or running tones... The tiles shop only show n sell their products, they dun even know know if theres any defaults in their goods, bcs they're packed in boxes... Only those workers who hands on the tiles can spot the faults.. Experienced n responsible tilers can tell whether the tiles is uneven or many running tones after laying a few boxes of tiles... The professional way is to sound off tis Faults to Contractors n owners immediately n get the tiles changed! Faulty products can be replaced anytime by suppliers. But if the tilers did it blindly, continue to lay the faulty tiles, then everything is too late!

I've never heard of surface not hacked deep enuf leh... There's 2 ways of laying tiles, Wet laying n Dry laying...

Wet lay - laying of tiles directly on bare surface with corect thickness of cement *not exceeding 50mm. (tilers will mark water level on walls b4 laying, as a guild line for floor measurements.)

Tis method is usually used for Homogenous n natural stone floorings. Better leveling control.

(not applicable to wall tiles)

Dry lay - Firstly, tilers will mark water level on walls b4 laying, as a guild line for floor measurements (thickness of tiles is excluded). Then do cement screed on the bare surface, leaving it vacant to harden n dry up for abt 1 day. With tis harden even raw floor surface, the tilers then start laying of tiles on it. Apply purely cement evenly on tiles jus like applying jam on bread, then 'piak' onto the cement screed.

Even the surface is not hacked deep enuf, tis will only cos the height of floor to be higher only. Is ur contractors trying to tell u indirectly tad the tilers did not see the 'hump' which protrutions of more than 50mm??? Wad is tis man?

3) Where got 'free lunch' in tis world? No doubts Supreme stated 'Free hacking of skirtings' for advertising additional services to end users. But all costs aldy is included in ur package liao.

U can't blame ur Contractor for wanting u to pay for hacking the skirting bcs u ain't hacking the flooring ma. If u got hack flooring, sure he can waive the cost for hacking skirting bcs all can be done together de.

In another way, He also need to ask hackers w/ tools to go ur hse just to hack the skirtings. Resonable hacking fees sure apply here ma, correct anot? Fair anot? Its ain't right to mention cheating here...

4) Same as wad i mentioned previously.

U already mentioned "EXTRA". Extra works shouldn't be charged? Unforeseen/ Hidden costs? Which hse doing major reno works doesn't have it? Hidden cost can be used on those contractors whose mainly with low ethics. Eg. Contractor quoted whole hse re-piping works for resale flat, existing pipe is hidden behind some false ceilings. To do the right way, false ceiling needs to be dismantle partially to enable dismantling n re-piping to take place, then rectify the false ceilings again.

R u going to blame the contractor for tis extra costs? Whereby contractors usually had only a chance to glance through ur place to deliver ur quotes. Only after confirmation of contract, then they can look into detailings. Which contractor will spend days in ur hse to oversee these 'hidden costs' before contract???

To add on, Most items r decided by u whether to do anot, u got the decision making ma.

5) Relocation of door entrance - No doubts u're a layman for construction works, let me advise on the works n costs needed for tis.

Hack new door opening~$200,

Install new nyatoh door frame w/ top concrete wall panels~$450,

conceal existing door entrance wif hollow block wall panels c/w smooth plastering to receive paint~$350 (tis price may goes up if happens tad the walls beside doors r not straight, plastering works must be done repeatly to get a flat n nice surface),

Make gd to flooring~$100-$400 (tis depends on how to rectify ur existing flooring)

Apply permit~$???

Tis re-locating of door might seems easy n cheap for u b4 my explanations... I bet now u got a better view..

Water pipings - Pipings will only be done after all surface is properly done up. Unless u're concealing ur pipes, of cos the cost is totally different. Concealing pipes in HDB flats is not advisable, breeching of rules. Some IDs conceal pipe in bathroom to have its design appear in a more outstanding way, but its a 'left' way.

Bcs HDB doesn't really focus on tis matter, so we can gamble wif lesser risk. If happens tad there's leakage in ur conceal pipe, causing water spalling from the unit below, U n ur contractor will face the music... Worst case, u only need to compensate n receive official warnings, ur contractor = License 'kan tong'!

*My apologies if i've offened u in some ways. But my motive here is to let fellow forumers to gain more...

Never view matter in a single way, everything can be worked out perfectly wif great gestures of understandings...

Hard feelings is a 'Big mole'! Notin comes out gd with tis attitude de... Clear the 'Big mole'!

Have a nice day!

Omg! I'm writing essays again...

Edited December 11, 2008 by de_Pierre

[ahockz 1]

Hi de_pierre,

U cant blame johnny for all this. Firstly, most of us r first timer, while ID/contractor r a seasoner to reno.

1) Delay the work schedule , trying to find excuses say their workers today have to rush here and there.

Schedules n timming can't be fixed dead. Eg. Tml is ur installation of toilet accessories sets, then suddenly

these plumbers receive a call from other customer stating got burst pipes? Where shall they heed 1st?

(They don need to give a FIX timing, they can always give by range of date instead. Yup true something unforeseen happen, but it should not be always happen right and cause the LONG delay, like that is that mean i should also expect my pipe will also burst in due time as their work is such qualilty)

2) Add unforeseen / hidden COSTS during the work. I believed everyone had encountered this whereby they have to add in this, add in that. Ask them to do some extra like fixing lightning, they will say need to charge.

U already mentioned "EXTRA". Extra works shouldn't be charged? Unforeseen/ Hidden costs? Which hse doing major reno works doesn't have it? Hidden cost can be used on those contractors whose mainly with low ethics. Eg. Contractor quoted whole hse re-piping works for resale flat, existing pipe is hidden behind some false ceilings. To do the right way, false ceiling needs to be dismantle partially to enable dismantling n re-piping to take place, then rectify the false ceilings again.

R u going to blame the contractor for tis extra costs? Whereby contractors usually had only a chance to glance through ur place to deliver ur quotes. Only after confirmation of contract, then they can look into detailings. Which contractor will spend days in ur hse to oversee these 'hidden costs' before contract???

(we r first timer, ID/contractor r "EXPERT" in reno, they should know what else we might need and advice in the first place, if not why should we look for them, u don go see doc and tell them u want what med right)

3) Select lower costs materials, and sometimes what you select is not what you get. May sure you follow them closely when you in the tiles factory/shop, or get the sales person to explain the tiles what is the different, how you tell. E.g. Laminated Flooring, supposed to be AC5 but they quietly install AC3

Well, all these materials is usually got from suppliers. Wad u chose is wad u get. If u dun trust ur contractors, then y engage them? U afraid of cheatings, black n white is always available before arrival of materials.

(what he mean he didnt get what he selected, but as long as he can proof it is differ, can always report to CASE)

4) Get payment first and always requested you to pay first for that and this. Make sure, when go hardware/lightning shop, do not give them any money in advance. No Such thing to help you buy first.

Felt not comfortable by placing minor cash wif contractors? U can do the payments or purchasing urself by making the trips to these shops. But r u prompt enuf to do all these? Wat if u delay the works indirectly? Well, ur contractor offers his service by helping u!

(Alternative can pass check to ID/contractor instead 2 pay to the company. CASH is always a BIG NO NO. i'm one of the victim of this, currently ALL MY ITEMS still is not UP and all my cashs is with the ID and is a 5 digit sum. maybe that kind of money is minor to u, but not for a lot ppl here)

[johnnyong 0]

I Agree .. with Ah Hockz, give them money.. is 5 digit money.. not 4 digit. I have not personal grieve or what against Contractors/IDs. Give them money already, they can slowly start to disappear.

My wall tiles, floor tiles materials are different. I choose glazed homogeneous and stain proof, but it is not.

[de_Pierre 0]

Wow, strong defense here...

Peace for every1... Everything is case to case... i dun mean to blame any1 here... jus stating some facts... reasons can be treated as gd n bad too...

e.g. Delays of schedule-Long delay of cos is not a reason liao, its an excuse!

(we r first timer, ID/contractor r "EXPERT" in reno, they should know what else we might need and advice in the first place, if not why should we look for them, u don go see doc and tell them u want what med right)

Of cos all tis can be minimised or spotted by experienced contractors, but who can eliminate all these extra costs wif 1 look? I'll pay Experts for being my teacher... Which hse doing major renos doesn't have addition or deductions of items? No offence pls...

4) Get payment first and always requested you to pay first for that and this. Make sure, when go hardware/lightning shop, do not give them any money in advance. No Such thing to help you buy first.

He mentioned abt other services provided by contractors for purchasing lightings/ hardwares etc ma, how can it derived to a sum of 5 digits leh? ( I thought the max only 1 or 2k nia...) If u're talking abt the progressive payments of contractual sum, then cash paments will not be advisable liao loh.. These 2 issues r abit diff...

R u guys stating u paid 5 digits sum of Cash? U nid a small carrier for tad sum of notes man...

(can feel floating while walking wif tad sum of notes man... kekekeke)

Well, we can't blame laymans... Every1 also got its own point views too..

I apologise for making some harsh comments, but sometimes of gd will, contractors will offer extra services like assisting in purchasing of other building materials. If they misuse or cheat ur money, then they r worth tad sum only. Others no need talk liao... There r plenty of hungry scamming contractors out there, jus beware n take precautions wisely...

Contractors ain't always right, so do the laymans... We r humans also ma, sure got make mistakes de... notin is perfect...

(*&%^%$#$@#$&^ those lousy contractors! Spoilt market only!)

Peace, No War!

Edited December 11, 2008 by de_Pierre

[Ami 0]

pinkpetter - Yes, very unhappy. His workmanship is really very bad, am very unpleased with the works and services. But because his son is also in the renovation business (and in the same office at Beauty World - very obvious hint!!), it would seems unfair to drag him into this whole affair.

The quality is bad (everything seems to be falling apart though we have yet moved in), his attitude is bad (when we ask him to rectify some works, he will find excuses and say it's not his fault. Eg: His plumber broke the basin and when confronted, say it's our aircon people or even us who broke it!! And before we signed on the dotted line and paid him, he said if the tiles we choose is of a smaller value, he will refund. But when we really did choose something that is cheaper, he said "oh! it's actually GST so no refund." And the list goes on and on...

johnnyong Not Henry from Impress21. Am pleased with his workmanship and service. Thumbs up!

Check your inbox pertaining to the question you asked.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Ami

[pinkpetter 0]

pinkpetter - Yes, very unhappy. His workmanship is really very bad, am very unpleased with the works and services. But because his son is also in the renovation business (and in the same office at Beauty World - very obvious hint!!), it would seems unfair to drag him into this whole affair.

The quality is bad (everything seems to be falling apart though we have yet moved in), his attitude is bad (when we ask him to rectify some works, he will find excuses and say it's not his fault. Eg: His plumber broke the basin and when confronted, say it's our aircon people or even us who broke it!! And before we signed on the dotted line and paid him, he said if the tiles we choose is of a smaller value, he will refund. But when we really did choose something that is cheaper, he said "oh! it's actually GST so no refund." And the list goes on and on...

johnnyong Not Henry from Impress21. Am pleased with his workmanship and service. Thumbs up!

Check your inbox pertaining to the question you asked.

Ami>> Haaaa... that sounds bad... things falling apart BEFORE you move in... no work ethics like that... I wanted to check out the people at Beauty World when I was looking for contractor... guess I'm glad I didn't. haiz. Then how? Are you going to complain against him?

******************************

Wah this issue with the contractors and stuff very scary...

MmMm I also layman with reno though I learn a lot from you all here.

But I have to agree that some things really cannot foresee. Hack already then realise it's like that. And the contractor will suggest a way out.

Before my reno started, I already warned my contractor... before he do anything that need money he better tell me first cos wait he do liao I no money to give him it's his problem. haha and he will update me la. So far all the things that he say he will do that is not in the quotation I noted down. And at intervals I will ask him how much each thing is. If FOC I will write down it's FOC and need money I will haggle the price with him a bit then write down.

Honestly I also scared at the end of reno kena slammed with a big bill. So I remind him now and then to tell me the items that need money and I must give the go-ahead before he does it.

*等一下 我没有钱给你啊 UNCLE!!*

Everytime I hand him a cheque I will photocopy the cheque and write what it is for. Then I will ask him to sign for the cheque. He also very good, he will write his name,I/C no. and sign and date it willingly. I guess if your contractor seems very defensive when you ask him to sign for cheques then should know liao... should be up to no good...

Every thing my family and I went to shop for it ourselves. Cos ours contractor he also no time to shop with us. We shop liao I make a copy of the invoice and give to him. Then I told him... if he want he call the people to deliver and just tell me when. I will go down and pay. If not he can also ask me to get them to deliver.

I guess the big diff is that I am on block leave and can be at the contractor's beck and call for the sake of my reno. So that's really something else to consider.

I know the rest of you busy busy very hard to keep such a close eye on renovations. It's a risk we all take ba.

[ahockz 1]

my work already quite flexiable. My ID always call mi to come out @ 3pm to meet to check on somethin @ my hse (plus payment for some crap things) . . .

The ONLY fault of mine, is too trust him. That why no matter what, i advice will not give cash or transfer money to any ID/contractor. Instead payment should be 2 company be it, any hardware stuff or whatever.

PS : i didnt carry so much ard, the payment is split a num of time, total amt until now is 5 digit. Most either CASH or through transfer to ID/contractor.

PEACE PEACE. no offence 2 anyone also. I also wan to state fact that, it will be a better any CASH matter handle carefully.

Edited December 11, 2008 by ahockz