Water Filters

[glhc 0]

hi gkbt,

Like nyc76, I'm also keen in Hexagon Alkaline water

http://www.ecosway.com/usstore/us/ProductDetails_us.jsp?prodId=48121&categoryRefNo=110&categoryGroup=B

My question is:

1. how does the water get "alkalined"

2. can water be broken down into smaller water molecule cluster through their magnetic rings

3. What's your feel about this water filter

Also, generally doesn't a 0.01micron filter filters away everything including minerals essential for the bodies?

[gkbt 8]

hi gkbt,

Like nyc76, I'm also keen in Hexagon Alkaline water

http://www.ecosway.com/usstore/us/ProductDetails_us.jsp?prodId=48121&categoryRefNo=110&categoryGroup=B

My question is:

1. how does the water get "alkalined"

2. can water be broken down into smaller water molecule cluster through their magnetic rings

3. What's your feel about this water filter

Also, generally doesn't a 0.01micron filter filters away everything including minerals essential for the bodies?

Hi glhc,

1) There are many ways to make water alkaline:

A) using soap / detergent = alkaline water... but we all know its really no no for drinking unless suicidal

B) using minerals such as sodium bicarb, calcium carbonate etc = alkaline water (its alkaline but the body needs ions not compounds, therefore it will break down this compound to extract the alkaline properties and dispose of the acidic minerals, using methods such as minerals will generally lead to low alkaline production eg. pH 8 - 9 as the filter ages, the minerals are no longer there and you will not get alkalinity anymore and need to replace those alkalizing filters)

C) using ionization, basically systems break the mineral compounds for you, and therefore you only take in the benefits and not the unwanted acid properties. Concentration pH which the user can choose range from 8 - 11.5 dependent on system. Even if you are drinking at 11.5... its still considered to be slightly above average in the alkaline pH scale for 7.1 - 14.

Don't for 1 moment let others tell you that you cant drink such high pH because natural herbs are at that range.. and furthermore you need such alkalinity to neutralize high acidic diets... generally we always think meats are acidic, how about rice, sugars, beverages like tea, coffee, soft drinks have a pH of 2.5!.

2) Magnetic rings may generate smaller microclusters. However similar systems such as the MRET are actually tested in laboratories showing microclusters similar to those like water ionizers. I am not entirely sure if Hexagon have actually sent the process water and got it tested but MRET cost 2k plus because of the technology, not sure about hexagon water technology.

3) Generally I do not take well with any MLM products. Simple reason is that consumers bear the brunt of the HIGH cost where profits are paid to the rest of the uplines. People might say otherwise, but I personally feel that mlm is entirely not sustainable as a business model and product wise is slightly better or similar to those you can find in departmental stores.

0.01M are known to remove alot of stuff.. Minerals are NOT one of them. Ionization is the basis of breaking down minerals into its elemental form, without minerals you won't get alkaline water...

I hope the above helped!

[Gavien 1]

A cheaper alternative will be Sapwell alkaline pitcher. Do take a look.

[winguy 0]

Hi, any comments on AOX ?

http://www.aoxantioxidantalkalinewater.com/#/filters/

Filter is 5 micron, followed by UV. I take it as bacteria and viruses still go through the filter, then killed by UV, meaning the water contains dead bacteria and viruses. Any downsides to drinking dead bacteria/viruses?

Are there other brands which are not ionizer but use minerals? Thanks.

Edited March 12, 2014 by winguy

[gkbt 8]

Hi, any comments on AOX ?

http://www.aoxantioxidantalkalinewater.com/#/filters/

Filter is 5 micron, followed by UV. I take it as bacteria and viruses still go through the filter, then killed by UV, meaning the water contains dead bacteria and viruses. Any downsides to drinking dead bacteria/viruses?

Are there other brands which are not ionizer but use minerals? Thanks.

Hi Winguy,

Sorry for the delay,

AOX is basically an alkalizer system, its does not separate alkaline and acid minerals in our water source but merely add more alkaline minerals into the water to make it slightly more alkaline. However this way means it suppresses the acid side of the water which the body does not need has to be eliminated. Furthermore such alkalinity will not last forever as you would have to replace the alkaline mineral cartridge which would cost quite a bit in the long run. There is a major difference in Alkaline mineral ions and Alkaline mineral compound

UV is hugely overstated, coming from a laboratory background, UV irradiation requires 10 - 15 mins to completely sterilize the area of work. this would be similar to water as well, which requires a storage tank to effectively kill pathogens. If there is no tank then the UV will not be effective. Eating dead bacteria and viruses seems ok since its passing our stomach which is acidic and would break down such stuff.

There are various brands other than AOX, such as hyflux, swiss pro to name a few. However without ionization (using electrical current, you will not be able to enjoy the actual goodness of alkaline ionized water.

Hope that helps

[khaw0001 0]

hi gkbt, after reading much i m planning to get jupiter, but there is few models out there, can u point to me which one is more value for money(like changing the filter cost)

and some model can cost near to 3k, the extra functions or benefits worth over the cheapest model which i checked is jupiter venus 1592.16 with gst shown on kemp website..

pls advise..

btw, I am quite lazy to do cleaning and changing, any models more "durable"(with comparison among) or all is the same?

lastly, pls do let me know if you got "lobang" that i can get cheaper price compare to the one shown in kemp website

thx

[Gavien 1]

Anyone thought of considering this? A Cheaper yet effective alternative

[gkbt 8]

hi gkbt, after reading much i m planning to get jupiter, but there is few models out there, can u point to me which one is more value for money(like changing the filter cost)

and some model can cost near to 3k, the extra functions or benefits worth over the cheapest model which i checked is jupiter venus 1592.16 with gst shown on kemp website..

pls advise..

btw, I am quite lazy to do cleaning and changing, any models more "durable"(with comparison among) or all is the same?

lastly, pls do let me know if you got "lobang" that i can get cheaper price compare to the one shown in kemp website

thx

Dear Khaw0001,

I would recommend you to look at counter top models as they are the most cost effective compared to undersink models. The Venus from what you have mentioned looks really cheap, however I have not heard of it much. I would think looking at other models such as the mavello and alphions, they seem to be quite popular.

The filters are changed by the delivery crew (so you dun need to change yourself) and so far priced at $150. There is nothing to wash and clean. Durability would be how long it last, this I'm afraid would depends on how you take care of the system.

Lobang wise..... I do know they have exhibitions around this time of the year, most likely in suntec, last year was in August so you are right in their exhibition month. Exhibitions are always the best time to get the systems.

Cheers

gkbt

[vnsy 0]

Dear All,

I am considering to get a ionizer alkaline filter.

1) Does 5 plate, 7 plate and 9 plate make a different for normal user? The higher the number of plate, the machine can push higer/lower pH, do we really need that?

2) Some machine come with 2 filters like Vesta, Athena. Does that mean the filter replacement cost will be higher since we need to change 2.

3) relate to question 2, how does the machine determine when to change the filter? By identify the water flow usage or water flow rate?

4) For Samsung Vesta, any official website? so far, I can't find yet.

Thanks.

vnsy

[gkbt 8]

Dear Vnsy,

1) The number of plates makes a difference if they are of the same dimension, type etc. The higher the number of plates the wider the range of pH the system can achieve. However saying that, its really difficult to judge and compare between different competitors. Therefore a simpler way would be to check the pH and ORP range that particular system you are looking at can go to. In general, the higher the alkalinity the better for the neutralization of acidic waste in the body. Importantly this high alkaline ionized water must be not generated from chemical additions.

2) The higher the number of filters would generally be more expensive that a singular filter. However its really dependent of the material that's inside the filter. Materials such as carbon are quite cheap and therefore not costly. Another trick suppliers use is the number of materials used. The separating layer is not a special material but rather to prevent mixing of 2 different materials. Some if not all suppliers treat this layer as another stage of filtration which is in my opinion BS.

3) All water ionizer systems that I know have a sensor that measures the volume that has pass through the filter. Therefore it should be accurate to the last liter.

4) Samsung Vesta is something US is touting. The similar system sold in Singapore is simply called Vesta, of course somewhere during the development and manufacturing process that Samsung is involved. Since the Vesta has been around for quite a while now, if that wasn't true about Samsung involvement I would think you should have seen some lawsuits already especially in US.

Hope that helps!

Edited August 28, 2014 by gkbt

[RLB 3]

Hello gkbt,

I have read through all the pages in this thread. It is really kind of you to take time to share with us what you know about filtered water.

I have decided to go for cleansui because I really don't have the money for the ones by kemp trading. I understand that I will not be able to benefit from the wonders of the alkaline feature but I am fine with that since I am just looking for filteration. I mean, at the very least I would no longer be ingesting all the undesirable chemicals/bacteria/sediments.

I hope you can shed some light on some of theese questions I have.

Since most (or all) of cleansui's products are able to block out 0.01m , does that mean that even getting faucet mounted filter is sufficient (i.e cleansui CSP601E or CSPXE)?

What are the pros and cons to faucet mounted, counter top, built in (undersink) filtration?

I would also like to mention that I really do not want to deal with the acid water that would be discharged when using some system. Can you tell me which system(s) would require me to store the acid water in a separate container? I mean, can't the plumbers simply connect a pipe to discharge the acid water back to say... the tank of the toilet bowl?

Thank you.

Edited September 16, 2014 by RLB

[gkbt 8]

Hello gkbt,

I have read through all the pages in this thread. It is really kind of you to take time to share with us what you know about filtered water.

I have decided to go for cleansui because I really don't have the money for the ones by kemp trading. I understand that I will not be able to benefit from the wonders of the alkaline feature but I am fine with that since I am just looking for filteration. I mean, at the very least I would no longer be ingesting all the undesirable chemicals/bacteria/sediments.

I hope you can shed some light on some of theese questions I have.

Since most (or all) of cleansui's products are able to block out 0.01m , does that mean that even getting faucet mounted filter is sufficient (i.e cleansui CSP601E or CSPXE)?

What are the pros and cons to faucet mounted, counter top, built in (undersink) filtration?

I would also like to mention that I really do not want to deal with the acid water that would be discharged when using some system. Can you tell me which system(s) would require me to store the acid water in a separate container? I mean, can't the plumbers simply connect a pipe to discharge the acid water back to say... the tank of the toilet bowl?

Thank you.

Dear RLB,

Thanks for reading through the pages and pages of info... glad that made some sense lol

There are some difference between a faucet mounted and a typical filter. For 1 would be the materials used. Typical faucet mounted filters only contain 1 single material either silverized carbon or the 0.01m space fiber. However both materials have a different role in filteration, the 0.01M is rightly the final material to sieve out the tiny particles up to 0.01M while the carbon is meant to kill bacteria, remove odor and some simple chemicals.

Therefore if you asked me.. a typical standard filter that consist of multi-layered materials would suit you best that end with a 0.01M space fiber material. however I would say in my opinion that the lesser the number of filter cartridges the better as that should minimize cost and timely reminders to change.

There is no difference between undersink and table top filter other than space saving.

Coming to the acidic water, its rather entrenched in my family to use up the acidic water... typically I would store this water for my washing up in the morning and the rest for rinsing my dishes since the container is beside the sink.

I do agree that if the acidic water is diverted to another location it minimized kitchen disruption. However that would need planning and unless you have a "clean" slate kitchen to work with, chances it would be tough to route it anywhere far away. I have heard of acidic water going to a cleaning area, yard, garden, washing machine etc. So to say there is no choice would be a tat unfair though I know where you are coming from. All systems that are call Alkaline water ionizers will produce both alkaline and acidic water components, if they don't then they are either filters or Alkalizers (alkaline water) that tries to mimic alkaline ionized water.

Hope the above helps!

Cheers

I stand corrected. I have just seen both of the models of cleansui facuet filters and I I think both would suit you well as they seem to have a multi material. However I think the down side would be frequency of filter change.

Edited September 16, 2014 by gkbt

[RLB 3]

Thank you for your timely and helpful reply.

You have been really kind. I really appreciate it.

God bless you!

Dear RLB,

Thanks for reading through the pages and pages of info... glad that made some sense lol

There are some difference between a faucet mounted and a typical filter. For 1 would be the materials used. Typical faucet mounted filters only contain 1 single material either silverized carbon or the 0.01m space fiber. However both materials have a different role in filteration, the 0.01M is rightly the final material to sieve out the tiny particles up to 0.01M while the carbon is meant to kill bacteria, remove odor and some simple chemicals.

Therefore if you asked me.. a typical standard filter that consist of multi-layered materials would suit you best that end with a 0.01M space fiber material. however I would say in my opinion that the lesser the number of filter cartridges the better as that should minimize cost and timely reminders to change.

There is no difference between undersink and table top filter other than space saving.

Coming to the acidic water, its rather entrenched in my family to use up the acidic water... typically I would store this water for my washing up in the morning and the rest for rinsing my dishes since the container is beside the sink.

I do agree that if the acidic water is diverted to another location it minimized kitchen disruption. However that would need planning and unless you have a "clean" slate kitchen to work with, chances it would be tough to route it anywhere far away. I have heard of acidic water going to a cleaning area, yard, garden, washing machine etc. So to say there is no choice would be a tat unfair though I know where you are coming from. All systems that are call Alkaline water ionizers will produce both alkaline and acidic water components, if they don't then they are either filters or Alkalizers (alkaline water) that tries to mimic alkaline ionized water.

Hope the above helps!

Cheers

I stand corrected. I have just seen both of the models of cleansui facuet filters and I I think both would suit you well as they seem to have a multi material. However I think the down side would be frequency of filter change.

Edited September 17, 2014 by RLB

[natvin 0]

Hi gkbt,

First of all, thanks a lot for sharing your experience in alkaline water system. It took me more than 1 hour to read and digest everything from page 1 to 9!

I am looking at the Vesta, probably the 7 plates. You were saying something about it being touted in the US. I'm just wondering, are they exactly identical: Samsung Vesta (US) vs. Vesta (Singapore) or will there be a slight derivation?

What about the panasonic 5 plates TK-7585, any thoughts on this one? It seems pretty cheap in Malaysia, RM 3,500 (~S$1367).

Came across this comparison site, which is really useful, It even tells you which one is "medical device approved" and also factory/product certifications.

Edited October 10, 2014 by natvin

[gkbt 8]

Dear Natvin,

Appreciate the time you took reading through those post....

In regards to the Vesta, there are actually the same system. However the difference will be the filters they comes with.

If I recall correctly US will come with a 0.1M filter with the option to upgrade to the 0.01 or Ultra water filter (which is not found in Singapore)

Singapore's Vesta should come with 0.01M. but I dun think they have the Ultra water filter.

As for Panasonic, its quite interesting the prices for the TK-7585 are so much lower in Malaysia compared to Singapore, probably due to the fact that Malaysia has many cheaper water ionizers (made from other countries) that competes for attention and the disposal income of Malaysians tend to be lower than Singapore.

Considering all factors, 5 plates systems are now becoming less popular due to the emergence of 7 and 9 plates but still ok for economy reasons.

I cant comment on the comparision site as I cant see it here, medical device approvals for water ionizers are as defined as ANY water ionizer system that is produced and made in Japan and Korea. If its made elsewhere they will not have the medical approval number. So do more reseach and feel free to ask any questions here...

Cheers!