Water Filters

[gkbt 8]

Hi yc_mw,

I am currently using the ESPRING water filter system from Amway. It is really good because after the activated carbon filter, there is a UV cartridge as well which is the last stage of water treatment. This actually kills off any remaining bacteria in the water. Activated carbon systems are really good as they harness bacteria to treat the water pollutants in our tap water. However, if we leave the activated carbon as the last stage process, there is a chance that live bacteria can flow out of the system, hence, with the added UV Cartridge, you are able to kill off any live bacteria remaining.

Dear Leonjcxf,

Thank you for your input.

I personally think MLM filter systems are too expensive to be bought by a typical consumer who has no desire make a business out of the products sold by the MLM company (in this case Amway)

The cost of the above unit is (without even doing any research) would be in the high $2k approx. Recurring cost (both filter and UV lamp) will be a concern too.

Consumer need to understand is that UV is not your solution to removing bacteria but rather the micron size of the filter, the smaller the sizing the better the filtration quality. In this case carbon filter used by Amyway is no sufficient in today standards.

Cheers

[yc_mw 1]

Hi gkbt,

I'm leaning in towards Cleansui whereas the Husband prefers 3M. Actually, we saw the Vesta set during the recent Taka sale, but, the sales staff was quite ignorant, and everything she says sounds so gimmicky, hence, I totally strike off those that claims alkaline water is good, and also those machines with plates and whatsoever.

[gkbt 8]

Hi gkbt,

I'm leaning in towards Cleansui whereas the Husband prefers 3M. Actually, we saw the Vesta set during the recent Taka sale, but, the sales staff was quite ignorant, and everything she says sounds so gimmicky, hence, I totally strike off those that claims alkaline water is good, and also those machines with plates and whatsoever.

Hi yc_mw,

Interesting that that you saw Vesta at Taka cos Kemp Trading as far as I remember do not do road shows in Shopping centers. The only outlet would still be at International Plaza if I am correct.

The difference between Kemp Vs others is that they will go through in detail with you on the technology with zero BS and only facts. If you think its not for you just walk, there is no pressure selling and definitely an eye opener in terms of knowledge. Its been a long while since I saw them but I doubt they have change the way they market their products.

If you have read through my post on what I have researched on alkaline ionized water, it would probably similar if not more... after-all I am infatuated with water technology but not that OCD (in a good way) like them.

On that note if your hubby is paying for it then let him have the 3M... but be sure to remind him the recurring cost of the filters should be bore by him as well if its too ex... as I have calculated previously

Cheers and happy holidays!

[Leonjcxf 0]

Dear Leonjcxf,

Thank you for your input.

I personally think MLM filter systems are too expensive to be bought by a typical consumer who has no desire make a business out of the products sold by the MLM company (in this case Amway)

The cost of the above unit is (without even doing any research) would be in the high $2k approx. Recurring cost (both filter and UV lamp) will be a concern too.

Consumer need to understand is that UV is not your solution to removing bacteria but rather the micron size of the filter, the smaller the sizing the better the filtration quality. In this case carbon filter used by Amyway is no sufficient in today standards.

Cheers

Hi gkbt,

First and fore most, I appreciate your input and sincerity in the reply. However, I would like to point out that the value stipulated "high $2k approx." is in fact inaccurate. It is not that expensive.

Next, I would first make it known that I am an environmental engineering student currently studying in the university. I have studied all applicable water treatment systems in the world and have a substantial knowledge of the technologies used and the reasons why.

I agree that the water quality in Singapore is definitely potable and will not cause any significant harm in the near future. However, if we take a look at the presence of chlorine in the water, it may at the short term show no considerable effects to our health. But in the long run, when something does happen, we fail to point out that chlorine in the water could have had a part to play. Plus, if we fail to remove chlorine away from our system, and we heat up the water there is always that potential chance to form trihalomethanes(THM). Trihalomethanes have been known to be a cause of cancer.

Also, I agree with the importance of the micron size of the filter. However, if we are looking at a small micron size, we could unintentionally remove the valuable minerals in the water (such as calcium) that out natural body system requires. This in other words will be forming water close to "ultra-pure water" which is the term given to what we know as NEWater. NEWater is too clean for consumption, hence it is sent to the reservoir to be mixed with minerals before being treated again for our use.

Just some input haha:)

[gkbt 8]

Hi gkbt,

First and fore most, I appreciate your input and sincerity in the reply. However, I would like to point out that the value stipulated "high $2k approx." is in fact inaccurate. It is not that expensive.

Next, I would first make it known that I am an environmental engineering student currently studying in the university. I have studied all applicable water treatment systems in the world and have a substantial knowledge of the technologies used and the reasons why.

I agree that the water quality in Singapore is definitely potable and will not cause any significant harm in the near future. However, if we take a look at the presence of chlorine in the water, it may at the short term show no considerable effects to our health. But in the long run, when something does happen, we fail to point out that chlorine in the water could have had a part to play. Plus, if we fail to remove chlorine away from our system, and we heat up the water there is always that potential chance to form trihalomethanes(THM). Trihalomethanes have been known to be a cause of cancer.

Also, I agree with the importance of the micron size of the filter. However, if we are looking at a small micron size, we could unintentionally remove the valuable minerals in the water (such as calcium) that out natural body system requires. This in other words will be forming water close to "ultra-pure water" which is the term given to what we know as NEWater. NEWater is too clean for consumption, hence it is sent to the reservoir to be mixed with minerals before being treated again for our use.

Just some input haha:)

Dear Leonjcxf

Thanks for your reply.

It is indeed not as high as i have mentioned (Pays to do a more thorough homework lol) however the actual price of $1998 is not exactly cheap either when u compare the specifications of spring with other similar capable filters. Throw in the cost of $310 for filter and $189 for the uv tube... You get the picture.

I applaud you for your education in environment engineering and i sincerely do believe that you have learn everything about water treatment. However it does not translate to practical knowledge nor experience especially when applied in another field for example biomedical. Personally i do not think for even a sec that my university education made me what i am today but rather gave me a foundation to understand, in this case the biochemistry for in vivo / vitro (what works inside n outside of a body)

The notion of having pollutants or chemicals such as chlorine in our water is compelling for us to get a filter system... The unknown and unseen does make some remarkable strong points. However based on PUB website, the quality of Singapore water is well above the standards set by WHO. If this is not a testament to Singapore's water quality i don't know what else. BTW THM are usually formed with organic material reacting with chlorine, boiling repetitively may have that tendency but its so rare (not sure if you were taught about this or was it spread by word of mouth) The amount of THM in Singapore water is also well below the limit set by WHO.

Micron size is very important to the filtration capability of the filter. I believe that you might be mistaken that 0.01m is similar to newater which is actually 0.00001m. Space fibre filters have been in the market for a while now but its expensive. It's also know that some bacteria can pass through a carbon filter which is 0.2 -1m (depending on the compactness of the carbon) but they will not pass through a 0.01m space fibre filter (99.999%). In regards to minerals being removed because of such fine filtration .... there is no cause of concern here, minerals such as calcium are smaller than 0.01m and as such will make it through space fibre filter but not through RO membrane filters.

So if you compare a regular marketed filter system VS mlm filter system

1) A mlm product will be estimate 40 - 50% more expensive ($1400 cleansui vs $1998 espring)

2) The recurring cost will be more expensive and weaker in quality e.g. $310 for a 0.2m carbon filter Vs $240 cleansui 0.01m space fibre

3) Technical expertise is next to non existent in mlm because knowledge is not required as a "recommender" where else its a rice bowl for sales n technical staff.

I am sorry if I sounded harsh, but if you didn't know by now, mlm has next to impossible odds getting to the top and its marketing strategy on an infinite population is extremely flawed.... which if u asked me is counting your eggs before they hatch.

But there are people who try still for the lure of making it big.... By making those on top bigger.

Cheers

[luohan12 0]

Bro gkbt .... To cut it short ... What do you think is the best value for money alkaline water system in the market now? Intend to get one ... Pls recommend ... Thank you in advance.

[gkbt 8]

Bro gkbt .... To cut it short ... What do you think is the best value for money alkaline water system in the market now? Intend to get one ... Pls recommend ... Thank you in advance.

Dear Luohan12

Alkaline water systems is split into 2 different types:

1) Alkalizing mineral filters

They tend to be cheaper as a 1 time payment but are expensive to maintain e.g filters. minimum 2 - 6 to change. Furthermore then tend to be weaker in alkalinity and have not much or little benefits such as antioxidants, hydrogen, small clusters etc.

Types of alkalizing filters..... there are alot of them! Those that come to mind will be

• Hyflux
• Cleansui
• Novita
• Diamond
• AOX

Cheapest would probably hyflux while AOX would be the most exp. *btw if you see ppl selling those stick that claim to be alkaline... its true to a certain extent of which time frame is a luxury

2) Water ionizers

They tend to be slightly cheaper to **** more expensive than alkalinzers, However recurring cost of the filters would be more affordable since probably at most will be 2 only. The alkalinity is constant for years with other benefits such as antioxidants, hydrogen, small clusters etc.

Type of water ionizers that come to mind.... again there are lots of them...

• Jupiter / Vesta / Smart I
• Watersource
• Novita
• KYK
• Cleasui
• Panasonic
• Kangen

Cheapest would be Panasonic / Cleansui though 3 plates that create such water is considered obsolete, they do have 5 plates though more costly. Both arer sold in departmental store which tend to give you a good price when there is a mega sale (think close door events Isetan / Robinson etc)....

Jupiter / Vesta / Smart I comes from Kemp Trading tend to be value for money, most variety and most experienced in its technology and sciences of this industry by far.

Kyk, watersource and Novita have almost similar prices $2k and above with almost similar number of models. Novita is however sold in departmental store which tend to give you a good price when there is a mega sale (think close door events Isetan / Robinson etc)....

Kangen is a MLM product that is overpriced and simply average in it output of water but if you are interested in making a living selling their $5K flagship system that's the only company that you can work for.

End of the day.... I would say this... go for what you can afford. I personally would buy water ionizers all over again (I own a Jupiter water ionzier after all and feel great about it).

Hope that helps....

Have a great Christmas and a Happy New YEAR!

[benetay 14]

Very good read and i agree with gkbt that Singapore Water is already very good to a very large extend. I have seen yellowish water coming out from taps overseas and they do not even have filters like we do.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers!

[luohan12 0]

Dear Luohan12

Alkaline water systems is split into 2 different types:

1) Alkalizing mineral filters

They tend to be cheaper as a 1 time payment but are expensive to maintain e.g filters. minimum 2 - 6 to change. Furthermore then tend to be weaker in alkalinity and have not much or little benefits such as antioxidants, hydrogen, small clusters etc.

Types of alkalizing filters..... there are alot of them! Those that come to mind will be

• Hyflux
• Cleansui
• Novita
• Diamond
• AOX

Cheapest would probably hyflux while AOX would be the most exp. *btw if you see ppl selling those stick that claim to be alkaline... its true to a certain extent of which time frame is a luxury

2) Water ionizers

They tend to be slightly cheaper to **** more expensive than alkalinzers, However recurring cost of the filters would be more affordable since probably at most will be 2 only. The alkalinity is constant for years with other benefits such as antioxidants, hydrogen, small clusters etc.

Type of water ionizers that come to mind.... again there are lots of them...

• Jupiter / Vesta / Smart I
• Watersource
• Novita
• KYK
• Cleasui
• Panasonic
• Kangen

Cheapest would be Panasonic / Cleansui though 3 plates that create such water is considered obsolete, they do have 5 plates though more costly. Both arer sold in departmental store which tend to give you a good price when there is a mega sale (think close door events Isetan / Robinson etc)....

Jupiter / Vesta / Smart I comes from Kemp Trading tend to be value for money, most variety and most experienced in its technology and sciences of this industry by far.

Kyk, watersource and Novita have almost similar prices $2k and above with almost similar number of models. Novita is however sold in departmental store which tend to give you a good price when there is a mega sale (think close door events Isetan / Robinson etc)....

Kangen is a MLM product that is overpriced and simply average in it output of water but if you are interested in making a living selling their $5K flagship system that's the only company that you can work for.

End of the day.... I would say this... go for what you can afford. I personally would buy water ionizers all over again (I own a Jupiter water ionzier after all and feel great about it).

Hope that helps....

Have a great Christmas and a Happy New YEAR!

Thanks bro gkbt ... Went down Kemp Trading today. Got a good deal. Cheers!

[Fong Cheng Fong Cheng 0]

Hi. I am a new homeowner in search for a water filter that has that alkaline properties. After reading through so many pages of post (skipping some), i can only conclude that i wound not want a filter that uses chemical to turn water alkaline.

I had been approached by two different company: focuswater and hydroflux doing door to door sales. But realise both companies were not mentioned in this forum at all. Anyone has any comment on them?

The more important question is, which filter should i choose?

[gkbt 8]

Dear Fong Cheng,

Thanks for sharing 2 new water systems suppliers! I'm currently bogged down and cant help to do a long write up.

A simple rundown on them.

Focus water markets a simple water alkalizer that uses minerals to add alkalinity to the water.

Hydroflux is a company that seems to supply water solutions. They have both water alkalizers and water ionizers.

Filtration wise they use 0.01m which is the best currently in filtration with minerals. Alkaline wise... i still prefer a water ionzier... but you have to check how much is hydroflux water ionizer cost. Not sure where its made too (must be from Japan or Korea) I do suspect Korea but please do a more detail check....

They are relatively new to the industry as I have not heard of them thus far.

Hope the above helps.

[Fong Cheng Fong Cheng 0]

Thank you so much for your reply. I am quite torn between getting from focus water or getting the ionizer. Focus water is 1688 include 4 filters change while ionizer is 1398 initially and 200 each filter change which is yearly.

I would prefer focus water for the fact that it does not require electricity and there wont be extra discharge of water. But focus water being such a new company doesn't have that credibility to ensure quality. The last thing i want is years down the road then realise there's problem with their filters.

Really have no idea which to settle for.

[gkbt 8]

Hi Fong Cheng,

I would still recommend you to go for a water ionizer (since I have been using is for a long while now)... the amount of electricity used is insignificant, I would place it like <$2/mth. As for the discharge.... if you know how to use them... it wont be enough... my ration anyway for the discharge is about 30 - 40% of the entire volume... so not that stressful. Do a bit of homework from this forum or visit retail outlets to understand more.

If you still prefer an alkalizer water system, go for those who have been around for a while and have a good track record. The simple list I made above could help you start.

Regarding the price of the alkalizing water system from focus water.. the base price is already quite high $1688 followed by the filters that needs to be change... (dun have a costing here....) I would say about $250 - $350 for all 4 filters annually for life.....

So choose wisely.... and best wishes!

[wattsivy 1]

Hi. I am a new homeowner in search for a water filter that has that alkaline properties. After reading through so many pages of post (skipping some), i can only conclude that i wound not want a filter that uses chemical to turn water alkaline.

I had been approached by two different company: focuswater and hydroflux doing door to door sales. But realise both companies were not mentioned in this forum at all. Anyone has any comment on them?

The more important question is, which filter should i choose?

As a Chemist, I would suggest 1st:

1. The main purpose why you wan to get water filter system?

2. Go for trust brand. (with enuf history in manufacturing water treatment system)

3. What is the technology using? (recommend for active carbon filter)

5. Does they certified by NSF 42, 43, 55?

6. How they function to kill bacteria?

7. Maintenance

8. Sale Service

Edited January 6, 2015 by wattsivy

[siaoboy 4]

Thanks bro gkbt ... Went down Kemp Trading today. Got a good deal. Cheers!

Can share the good deal? I went down the other day and price seem to have increase across the board.

Mavello MX -1888

Kemp Smart I5 -1888

Kemp Smart I7 -2488