Bedok Central

[DSA 0]

Ha! I have to insert the disclaimer first before readers feel I rub them the wrong way - it has happened before which is always the case of their interpretation, not my intention. 我一向实话直说，而且是对事，不对人。 But there seems to be readers who take my comments personally when they should be focusing on the subject matter.

Painting takes practise - no one is a born painter. Not even Van Gogh, Leonardo Da Vinci or Michaelango - scenes from Genesis on the ceiling took him approximately four years and The Last Judgment on the altar wall of the Sistine Chapel in Rome took almost seven years.

I am just glad that I am lucky to have found & engaged a good & super fast painter - 2 days CHOP CHOP finish my 4 room unit with two coats of Nippon MediFresh 3-in-1 paint!. Even my contractor complimented on the good paintmanship, considering the cost & speed! And he charges $1200 while I managed to contain the cost of painting to $990! The regret is that I ain't fast enough with colours coordination and a whole lot of other restrictions placed on the choice of colours by my family members. In addition, the colour chosen only left one can 'cause it was on stock clearance for $39 per 5L can. D.arn!

The primary objective of engaging vendors directly is cost containment.

Once a renovation project is tasked over to an ID or contractor, this objective is as good as gone out of the sliding or casement window - their objective is profit maximisation for their own. In addition, it is also an opportunity for me to learn the basics of this trade and I can satisfactorily say, it has been a fruitful one - I will be more proficiently armed & ready if I ever were to embark on another renovation project.

The humour of this exercise is that Eric, the ID from Summit asked, over a BBQ gathering, if I am interested to join Summit! I replied too bad my colour sensitivity ain't fast enough to come up with colour coordination on the spot - I am not trained in fine arts or interior design. I mean I know what colours I like - I spent a good 2 hours one fine night in the The Lee Kong Chian Reference Library going through 7 texts on colour matching in painting & interior design & interior furnishing. It was interesting & the 2 hours reinforced my initial belief that this trade or skill can be learnt. I mean, the contractors & IDs I came across don't really seem like rocket scientists to me..... at all!

The contractor I engaged commented he hardly came across anyone who has done as much meticulous detailed research as me. So much that he sort of lectured me after I looked through the lights at a shop he brought me to. Well, he has been in this trade for 30 years? Or so he claims. So I guess he's not too pleased that some young guy like me, challenges his experience & his so-called quality standards ever so often - I stuck 30 yellow stickers on the kitchen cabinet his carpentry subcon constructed. Well, all except the bloody crappy drawers, are minor issues, rectifiable imperfections, not exactly defects. Aye, I am an outlier lah.

Edited September 11, 2008 by DSA

[soojin 0]

Hi all,

thank you for your inputs. i am trying to cut paste all replies and slowly read and digest.

may i ask, if it is advisable i do my own painting? save $800. quite a bountiful in my terms.

should i get all sub contractors? or go with the reno package? if reno package does it mean ID? b'cos i dont think i can afford ID or am willing to loan so much,for now.

Hi Raayn,

Thought I just share my experience with you, hope it would be of some assistance. My wife and I also decided to go for a basic reno as we will be heading overseas next year and will be looking to rent the place out. As such, we saw fit to try to spend the minimum we can. Basically 10k can be a realistic budget assuming that excludes furniture, which I guess you can start with the bare minimum and add as you go along. Here is our rough expenditure so far:

1. Flooring - parquet for living room and 3 rooms - $3.5k (no haulage fee needed)

2. Aircon - Sharp Sys3 - $1.7k (although I got a $100 summon when I went up for a quick check that day on the aircon so I take it as $1.8k )

3. Kitchen - Ikea (plus sink and tap) - $3k

4. Painting - DIY - $70 (We decided the best way to save was to keep the whole house white so we bought did only minimum painting to touch up the spots that were dirtied)

5. Lighting - Ikea (plus installation, I estimate $300-$400)

6. Service yard windows - $500

As you can see, even with a $10k budget, that leaves you a bit more for other essential electronics such as stove, electrical heater, as well as simple bathroom fittings (bars for show curtains, mirrors, etc. from Ikea). There are of course other items to consider such as furniture (we are not building in any) and curtains which might burst your budget somewhat, but those can be slowly added when your finances build up somewhat.

Hope this helps!

[raayn 0]

wow...i must say..

firstly, all of your comments and own personal experiences are really waking me up in terms of the financial aspects of this major life turning event of mine.

to DSA,

the first time i read your post, i was a bit stunned. thinking is he insulting me or trying to act smart, but i chose to re-read your post 2-3 times and realise, HEY, you do really know your stuff VERY WELL and you made perfect sense.

no parquet flooring for me, just laminated flooring. i know i didnt state much details and i admit its because i haven got down to actually doing full blown research and familiarise myself with this whole, renovation thing, its jargons, etc. carpentry,painting, wetworks(with til now, i still dont know what it means).

but yeah, several points and angles which i have not thought of came to light via your post, that cost aint everything.

so now, i am left with two options

1. secure a reno loan and do a DECENT reno

2. save some more + personal loans frm non-interest generating sources(think:family) and add bit by bit.

For now,

I want to go to option 2. with concentration on putting tiles first and not 'kacau-ing' the electrical points. maybe add just lights first.

[frederick_chia 1]

wow...i must say..

firstly, all of your comments and own personal experiences are really waking me up in terms of the financial aspects of this major life turning event of mine.

to DSA,

the first time i read your post, i was a bit stunned. thinking is he insulting me or trying to act smart, but i chose to re-read your post 2-3 times and realise, HEY, you do really know your stuff VERY WELL and you made perfect sense.

no parquet flooring for me, just laminated flooring. i know i didnt state much details and i admit its because i haven got down to actually doing full blown research and familiarise myself with this whole, renovation thing, its jargons, etc. carpentry,painting, wetworks(with til now, i still dont know what it means).

but yeah, several points and angles which i have not thought of came to light via your post, that cost aint everything.

so now, i am left with two options

1. secure a reno loan and do a DECENT reno

2. save some more + personal loans frm non-interest generating sources(think:family) and add bit by bit.

For now,

I want to go to option 2. with concentration on putting tiles first and not 'kacau-ing' the electrical points. maybe add just lights first.

Frankly speaking, it's only after many rounds of discussion with IDs & contractors & weighing our pros & cons that me & my wife finally settled on our equation of "wants = needs". (Also take note that guys & gals have different tastes and preferences). We also found out that it's thru these discussion sessions that we can be our own ID, but just tat we do not have the time & effort to manage our "project". Do an extensive homework on all the stuffs that you need to buy (ranging from tiles pricing, electrical appliances, etc) in order not to be "koto-ed" by IDs or contractors. I must admit that it is a painful & tiring process...but it's also an enriching & enjoyable process too! In fact, you will be surprrised to learn that there are so many types of tiles in the market and also 12mm & 15mm solid plywood have their own characteristics & pricing (not to mention also price varies from color, grain, type of laminates, etc).

However, not to scare you off now....but if you really really need any help or advice, you can always count on this forum to search for your answers. I'm also pretty sure that our LG folks will be helpful in clearing your doubts.

[DSA 0]

It takes logic, reason & rationale to understand my postings. Coz that's how I formulate my thoughts & posts. And my communication style is factual, stoic, without emotional noise. However, not everyone's mind operate in such manner - everyone is wired differently.

And thank you for not mis-interpretating what I am really trying to convey. That is a great reward for the effort I put in my previous posts which have been reinforced with additional points that I have come up with as I read them again.

If there's any queries you or anyone may have, please post. Shyness is not a positive character trait. The collective wisedom is far greater than any single person's perspective.

My final thoughts to Raayn and anyone who is about to embark on the renovation of their most exorbitant asset:

Be meticulous, be detailed as much as you & your spouse can afford because this is an excellent classic case of information asymmetry as I have illustrated in one of my previous posts in this thread. Information is one of the vital & essential ingredients in addressing & solving any information asymmetry problem. However, I understand not every mind is an information cruncher as mine - mine thrives on information, relevant & interesting ones, of course! But fret not, money can help in this aspect! There are mercenaries out there who are more than willing to 拿人钱财，替人消灾 or 食君之禄，担君之忧！And local schools should really impart personal financial management to students, right from primary schools! Ooops! Even the teachers aren't exactly personal finance-savvy themselves.....

Do bear that in mind that at the end of the day, the costs & benefits of your decisions affects you & your spouse & no one else. And this is a project whose success is a must to you & your spouse. Make it so then.

Edited September 11, 2008 by DSA

[isc90152 0]

so now, i am left with two options

1. secure a reno loan and do a DECENT reno

2. save some more + personal loans frm non-interest generating sources(think:family) and add bit by bit.

For now,

I want to go to option 2. with concentration on putting tiles first and not 'kacau-ing' the electrical points. maybe add just lights first.

good choice, not good to take too much loan. btw, u can choose to laminate living as well. HDB can do cement screeding for u. So can cut on 1 more cost. 2K should be enough to laminate the entire place although not many pple do that. Furniture + electrical items can add later when more comfortable.

I think that you should get a few quotations from ID packages, main contractors and sub contractors to get a feel of the market. But remember that essentials like kitchen ware (sink, hob+hood), heater and lights are charged separately. The absolute carpentry that you need is the kitchen, others you will have to put aside first or use furniture. It is possible to keep within 10K (without furniture) but need a lot of research work.

Good luck and enjoy the process, its bittersweet fun

Hi anyone planning to use Systemind platform. I just realize that it is **** expensive. Any users can share their experience with this product?

www.designtray.com/index1.htm

[frederick_chia 1]

good choice, not good to take too much loan. btw, u can choose to laminate living as well. HDB can do cement screeding for u. So can cut on 1 more cost. 2K should be enough to laminate the entire place although not many pple do that. Furniture + electrical items can add later when more comfortable.

I think that you should get a few quotations from ID packages, main contractors and sub contractors to get a feel of the market. But remember that essentials like kitchen ware (sink, hob+hood), heater and lights are charged separately. The absolute carpentry that you need is the kitchen, others you will have to put aside first or use furniture. It is possible to keep within 10K (without furniture) but need a lot of research work.

Good luck and enjoy the process, its bittersweet fun

Hi anyone planning to use Systemind platform. I just realize that it is **** expensive. Any users can share their experience with this product?

www.designtray.com/index1.htm

The quotation I got from Kronotex directly for all the dry areas (living room, walkway , & bedrooms) is $2.5K, but it's in June. Not too sure prices went up or down. Kronotex is @ Bedok Reservoir. You might want to pop down to take a look.

Isc90152,

I noticed that you had bought a Joven 35 litres electric storage heater from Poh Joo. Did you buy the horizontal version or the vertical version? Also, any idea what's the difference between these 2 versions?

[DSA 0]

Joven has a website, u know?

[isc90152 0]

I noticed that you had bought a Joven 35 litres electric storage heater from Poh Joo. Did you buy the horizontal version or the vertical version? Also, any idea what's the difference between these 2 versions?

Hi fred, I am shortlisting it, havent bought yet. I heard it has no difference. I think that my bathroom has a beam structure tat I can mount the heater to. if you buy a vertical one, cannot put horizontal & vice versa.

My reno havent started, so I'm still shopping around

[frederick_chia 1]

Joven has a website, u know?

Yup, I know. From what is given in the website, I see that there are no difference. However, just trying out my luck to see if anyone knows scientifically if the water in the heater boils faster over a longer surface (horizontal) or smaller surface (vertical). Or perhaps it doesn't really matter too....just that I'm thinking too much? However, based on design, I think the horizontal model "looks" smaller lor...hee hee!

[big orange 0]

Yup, I know. From what is given in the website, I see that there are no difference.

I think it to cater for your own design limitation. However maybe yokoyoko can come in and enlight you. He himself is kinda of expert in this joven stuff. think he research quite abit before deciding. We shall "suck" his knowledge!

Hi BO,

Sure, no need bring durian just buy Mcdonals fries can already....

NO! I demand durian!

Kidding lah. Anyway tomorrow nite, i will go to cohiers unit and see see look look.

Maybe sat got any outing, let me know hor!

I am so excited! Those who didn't know, i got my deferment from HDB to produce ROM cert and will be getting KEY!!!! YEAH!

[big orange 0]

己所不欲, 勿施于人。

Edited September 11, 2008 by big orange

[yokoyoko 0]

I think it to cater for your own design limitation. However maybe yokoyoko can come in and enlight you. He himself is kinda of expert in this joven stuff. think he research quite abit before deciding. We shall "suck" his knowledge!

NO! I demand durian!

Kidding lah. Anyway tomorrow nite, i will go to cohiers unit and see see look look.

Maybe sat got any outing, let me know hor!

I am so excited! Those who didn't know, i got my deferment from HDB to produce ROM cert and will be getting KEY!!!! YEAH!

COngrats! LG Boss.. lolz.. i no expert in joven heater la.. i just went to POh joo and compared btw Ariston and Joven.. Joven gt 6 more yrs warranty den Ariston.. so i picked it.. although they are diff country brand but i don go for branded haha.. The vertical and horizontal designs i asked the lady SA, she also don noe.. confirm not the size.. cos all same litre.. maybe is how the water flow and aid the heater.. thats y it cost 5 bucks more..

[frederick_chia 1]

COngrats! LG Boss.. lolz.. i no expert in joven heater la.. i just went to POh joo and compared btw Ariston and Joven.. Joven gt 6 more yrs warranty den Ariston.. so i picked it.. although they are diff country brand but i don go for branded haha.. The vertical and horizontal designs i asked the lady SA, she also don noe.. confirm not the size.. cos all same litre.. maybe is how the water flow and aid the heater.. thats y it cost 5 bucks more..

All I know now for sure is that those horizontal version got more variety in volume.....wonder if anyone really knew the actual difference....sighed.....

[big orange 0]

COngrats! LG Boss.. lolz.. i no expert in joven heater la.. i just went to POh joo and compared btw Ariston and Joven.. Joven gt 6 more yrs warranty den Ariston.. so i picked it.. although they are diff country brand but i don go for branded haha.. The vertical and horizontal designs i asked the lady SA, she also don noe.. confirm not the size.. cos all same litre.. maybe is how the water flow and aid the heater.. thats y it cost 5 bucks more..

Expert sia! I feel the deisgn is just pure design issue lah.