Carpentry Materials Clears Up

[Zenmaster 2]

Greeting every1 I am new here !!

A bit surprise that there’s so much miss understanding & lack of knowledge about cabinetry /carpentry material that make me itchy enough to just registered to post to clear things up.

I used to work as furniture apprentice in my school holidays time on & off started when I was 14 years old, that’s 20+ years back. Later after army I became an ID myself for a few years.

For all those days, I had learned quite a bit of woodworking, cabinetry related knowledge but far from an expert but I still think maybe I could share some knowledge to benefit anyone who is interested.

‘Wood’ material use in furniture:

1: Solid wood – refer to real wood that chop down from tree (wood log), that cut to plank & timber. Example: Teak wood(use in Balinese furniture & good in outdoor & ship/boat cause of good withstand to weather & moisture), oak wood(some make it to kitchen cabinet but easily cost around 15k in local), cherry wood, pine wood(soft wood) etc etc.

Solid wood is expensive & require high skill to make into furniture cause wood move (shrink & expand according to humidity), warp, tear etc & it is expensive.

That’s why we mostly use ply wood nowadays for cabinet. As for chair, bench, & some table we still use real wood for its strength.

If u thinks that all ur cabinet is making with ply wood… think again. Don’t forget there’s ‘chipboard’ & MDF (medium density fiberboard).

2. Particle board (sort of chipboard)

Poorest quality among ply wood & MDF, better than OSB imo. Bad, bad idea when use in Sink support, fish tank support. Also beware of kitchen top that use chip board (so call postforming- more on it later.) Also use in some laminated flooring.

3. OSB (real chipboard)

Real chipboard, not totally useless. Inexpensive, good sound insulation (that’s what I had heard) God bless u if u use it as cabinet.

I had read other thread in this forum about the confuse of ‘Solid plywood’.

So what exactly is ‘Solid ply’ & ‘non-solid ply’?

These need some explanation:

Back in the day when we cut strip of plywood & make it like a flame. Than paste with 3mm thin veneer (real wood veneer or none real wood veneer-more on this later) to both side to save material. This forms a hollow plywood; U knocks it, it will sound very hollow. (There are still a lot of these nowadays at smaller furniture shop.)

So some of us Interior designer/contractor in order to be better deal than other ID will emphasis that we use solid ply.

I won’t say this type of furniture is totally useless. Why not If u r looking for a lightly use cabinet & got a tight budget. At least it is cheap & still will last u several years.

Solid Plywood

Solid ply means whole piece of plywood (without cutting into flame) paste with veneer.

So plywood is just plywood, there actually no solid ply or non-solid ply. Just that what people make it into.

So that means if ur cabinet is not make by solid wood, chipboard, particle board & MDF it should be plywood right?

Wrong!

Recently things had changed (not sure since when it started), carpenter start to replace plywood with blockboard. Now 90% of custom furniture (just a guess) using blockboard instead of plywood cause it is lighter than ply wood hence easier to work with & handling than plywood so it had become the carpenter's choice.

Moreover it is slightly cheaper than plywood. (I don’t think all ID know this, usually the one that know well is the carpenter himself, not the ID.)

Blockboard

Made out of strip of core of tree, both side paste with a thin layer of ply (3mm?).

Lesser quality than plywood (that’s what I heard from a senior carpenter) because the core of tree is softer than the main body.

Frankly speaking, I’m not sure which is better, Blockboard or plywood cause I never seen a blockboard or work with it back in my carpentry day but too bad cause most price listed as per foot run for kitchen cabinet is not base on plywood.( I could be wrong.) Maybe the ID will need to up the price if u tells him u want ‘solid plywood’.

I believe there’s some pro & cons between the two, like hinges is attached more firmly in blockboard due to light weight? Which one more water resistant?

All & all I’m not too sure but I will take on plywood any day.

Veneer, laminate, post forming, what is that?

It is not too complicated, but still it is not too simple because we misused the word laminate. According to wikipedia, two or more layer of same or different material layer together is call laminate.

So plywood is also laminate.

Lets simplified it here; I will call those veneer, laminate, Formica etc a Skin.

Veneer

Veneer is a thin slice of real wood but in the industrial there’s still ‘mainly’ two types of veneer- Real wood veneer & man-made veneer.

Real wood veneer comes in two forms. One in a roll form (less than 1mm that could cut into strips & later paste at the edge of a said plywood. One comes in 3mm-3.6mm thickness sheet. It is also a 1mm less wood veneer but pre pastes into 3mm ply in factory.

Man-made veneer (Engineered veneer) could be a sheet of printed paper or PVC etc (I’m not too sure what some of the material used) that still could look like wood veneer but less the nice real wood grain.

Laminate

I like to call all laminate, Formica, polyester, PVC what ever unknown material other than real wood- laminate.

Postforming

This term was misused too. Postforming actually means a type of technology to laminate- using heat & pressure to bend the finishing layer (laminate sheet) to the material (example plywood).

It could be Postforming to chipboard too. That’s why a Postforming kitchen top could be chipboard, particle board, plywood etc.

One thing for sure is that the laminate use in postforming top is good as kitchen top because of its heat resistance, water resistance & scratch proof.

Use this article as a guide only, take it as a grain of salt because I can’t be 100% right.

Feel free to correct me as this forum got many knowledgeable people here.

Hope these help. !!

Edited November 27, 2007 by Zenmaster

[Yang Guo 7]

thanks for the post, its really good information

[Zenmaster 2]

U welcome, I'm glad it helps.

Edited December 14, 2007 by Zenmaster

[Chunky Monkey 2]

This is truly one educational and informative post ... all in one place. Thanks for sharing.

[OnTheRoad 0]

Hi Zenmaster, thanks for the sharing...

Would layman like myself be able to tell a if a cabinet's made of solid plywood or is actually a poorer wood?

[Ruyong0106 0]

Greeting every1 I am new here !!

A bit surprise that there’s so much miss understanding & lack of knowledge about cabinetry /carpentry material that make me itchy enough to just registered to post to clear things up.

I used to work as furniture apprentice in my school holidays time on & off started when I was 14 years old, that’s 20+ years back. Later after army I became an ID myself for a few years.

For all those days, I had learned quite a bit of woodworking, cabinetry related knowledge but far from an expert but I still think maybe I could share some knowledge to benefit anyone who is interested.

‘Wood’ material use in furniture:

1: Solid wood – refer to real wood that chop down from tree (wood log), that cut to plank & timber. Example: Teak wood(use in Balinese furniture & good in outdoor & ship/boat cause of good withstand to weather & moisture), oak wood(some make it to kitchen cabinet but easily cost around 15k in local), cherry wood, pine wood(soft wood) etc etc.

Solid wood is expensive & require high skill to make into furniture cause wood move (shrink & expand according to humidity), warp, tear etc & it is expensive.

That’s why we mostly use ply wood nowadays for cabinet. As for chair, bench, & some table we still use real wood for its strength.

If u thinks that all ur cabinet is making with ply wood… think again. Don’t forget there’s ‘chipboard’ & MDF (medium density fiberboard).

2. Particle board (sort of chipboard)

Poorest quality among ply wood & MDF, better than OSB imo. Bad, bad idea when use in Sink support, fish tank support. Also beware of kitchen top that use chip board (so call postforming- more on it later.) Also use in some laminated flooring.

3. OSB (real chipboard)

Real chipboard, not totally useless. Inexpensive, good sound insulation (that’s what I had heard) God bless u if u use it as cabinet.

I had read other thread in this forum about the confuse of ‘Solid plywood’.

So what exactly is ‘Solid ply’ & ‘non-solid ply’?

These need some explanation:

Back in the day when we cut strip of plywood & make it like a flame. Than paste with 3mm thin veneer (real wood veneer or none real wood veneer-more on this later) to both side to save material. This forms a hollow plywood; U knocks it, it will sound very hollow. (There are still a lot of these nowadays at smaller furniture shop.)

So some of us Interior designer/contractor in order to be better deal than other ID will emphasis that we use solid ply.

I won’t say this type of furniture is totally useless. Why not If u r looking for a lightly use cabinet & got a tight budget. At least it is cheap & still will last u several years.

Solid Plywood

Solid ply means whole piece of plywood (without cutting into flame) paste with veneer.

So plywood is just plywood, there actually no solid ply or non-solid ply. Just that what people make it into.

So that means if ur cabinet is not make by solid wood, chipboard, particle board & MDF it should be plywood right?

Wrong!

Recently things had changed (not sure since when it started), carpenter start to replace plywood with blockboard. Now 90% of custom furniture (just a guess) using blockboard instead of plywood cause it is lighter than ply wood hence easier to work with & handling than plywood so it had become the carpenter's choice.

Moreover it is slightly cheaper than plywood. (I don’t think all ID know this, usually the one that know well is the carpenter himself, not the ID.)

Blockboard

Made out of strip of core of tree, both side paste with a thin layer of ply (3mm?).

Lesser quality than plywood (that’s what I heard from a senior carpenter) because the core of tree is softer than the main body.

Frankly speaking, I’m not sure which is better, Blockboard or plywood cause I never seen a blockboard or work with it back in my carpentry day but too bad cause most price listed as per foot run for kitchen cabinet is not base on plywood.( I could be wrong.) Maybe the ID will need to up the price if u tells him u want ‘solid plywood’.

I believe there’s some pro & cons between the two, like hinges is attached more firmly in blockboard due to light weight? Which one more water resistant?

All & all I’m not too sure but I will take on plywood any day.

Veneer, laminate, post forming, what is that?

It is not too complicated, but still it is not too simple because we misused the word laminate. According to wikipedia, two or more layer of same or different material layer together is call laminate.

So plywood is also laminate.

Lets simplified it here; I will call those veneer, laminate, Formica etc a Skin.

Veneer

Veneer is a thin slice of real wood but in the industrial there’s still ‘mainly’ two types of veneer- Real wood veneer & man-made veneer.

Real wood veneer comes in two forms. One in a roll form (less than 1mm that could cut into strips & later paste at the edge of a said plywood. One comes in 3mm-3.6mm thickness sheet. It is also a 1mm less wood veneer but pre pastes into 3mm ply in factory.

Man-made veneer (Engineered veneer) could be a sheet of printed paper or PVC etc (I’m not too sure what some of the material used) that still could look like wood veneer but less the nice real wood grain.

Laminate

I like to call all laminate, Formica, polyester, PVC what ever unknown material other than real wood- laminate.

Postforming

This term was misused too. Postforming actually means a type of technology to laminate- using heat & pressure to bend the finishing layer (laminate sheet) to the material (example plywood).

It could be Postforming to chipboard too. That’s why a Postforming kitchen top could be chipboard, particle board, plywood etc.

One thing for sure is that the laminate use in postforming top is good as kitchen top because of its heat resistance, water resistance & scratch proof.

Use this article as a guide only, take it as a grain of salt because I can’t be 100% right.

Feel free to correct me as this forum got many knowledgeable people here.

Hope these help. !!

Hi there! I need ur help in this case! My house in under renovation and I have a storage platform in master bedroom using formica laminate! After the installation, we notice there a air bubble in the Formica, then it getting longer and longer! Is there any way to fix it! Cuz we call the carpenter to come and see! He juz use iron to iron on the bubble area only! After a while the air bubble can be seen again!

Pls help! Cuz we need to move in next mth and this thing is giving us a headache!

[Ruyong0106 0]

I can send u pic of the air bubble Formica if u need to see

[wawakaka5 0]

Is there any difference between 3 ply and 5 ply? Thanks.

[Karenamanda81 0]

Thanks for the sharing! Good information

[Poet 1]

Hi all,

Just saw this post by chance and thought I could put my 2 cents in to help people understand more.

Timber is a varying natural material which of course the pricing and properties vary hugely.

Zenmaster is largely correct for most part but here are the finer details of them and their usage.

Particle Board and Chip Boards -

Should never be used as permanent solutions for most interior applications. They have very poor water resistance quality and will smell bad once they start to rot. Only use them for commercial retail fixtures that are meant to be used for short term or movie set props etc.

MDF Board -

Is better than Particle board and should not be used for kitchen applications or wet areas unless is for doors that are meant to be spray painted over properly. The painting process will seal the MDF making it water resistant. Min. 2 pot lacquer process is recommended for a strong enough protective layer over the door panels so that light scratch do not compromise the water resistance quality. If really worried some spray painters actually have the knowledge to use automotive paints when spraying and these offer better protection really at not too much of a cost over regular paints. Just to clear things up. MDF is the no.1 choice to use when you want to spray paint finish. Using Ply will result in poor finish and warping issues. (Unless you go through some ridiculously expensive and time consuming steps to treat the Ply) Expect this to cost more than laminated doors by a significant amount if you want a proper job done.

Ply -

Not all ply are equal. But as a general rule ply should be the default choice in making your kitchen cabinets. Standard ply used by almost all renovation companies are only average in grade but does the job well enough in relation to the cost I guess. But if you want to achieve high end finish feel with raw ply, (Polished Raw Ply that are done well can look better than laminated panels, In fact they look as good as solid wood.) you will need to be using some real fancy Plywood and these don't come cheap at all. They can cost up to 7 to 8 times the price of normal Ply for the Raw material. Nice Ply examples are Birch faced Ply Panels bonded with marine glue. You get a creamy white marble grained surface and clean edges with no gaps for the Ply example I mention. Water Resistance quality is also way better than the normal ones of course. (Not even sure if you can get them through retail means in Singapore without a special order)

Blockboard is really still a form of Ply with solid softwood core made of real softwood strips. It is not core of wood as core of trees are known as heart wood and they are actually the strongest part of a tree. Very expensive for heart wood as they take decades to turn into them. Blockboard is actually a really good choice if you decide to go with ABS trimming (Basically 1 or 2 mm PVC edging) as they usually adhere better then HPL lamination edge tape. Avoid if using laminate edge tape as due to the fact it uses soft wood for core, its water resistance quality is just simply not as good if left exposed.

Finally below are some quick notes too:

- Man made veneer is also known as reconstituted veneer (recon veneer). It is actually still made from wood fibres and the colours are dyed in through printing method. Still gets a grain feel on them but is general less noticeable which may result in some grain prints looking less natural. (Most people don't notice the difference really) Examples of grain patterns to use recon instead of natural is zebrano or ebony etc.

- Laminates used usually technically is known HPL laminate (High pressure laminate). They are usually quite hardy save for some poor brands out there.

- Bubbling is something unfortunately that will happen from time to time in Singapore context for various reasons. Workmanship and humility are the main ones. moisture trapped within panels trying to escape is the no.1 reason for these bubbling (known as de-lamination, more common with veneer as veneer tends to show even the slightest bubbles where else HPL laminates are generally sturdy enough to conceal the slight imperfections). Singapore carpenters are not known to use heat press machines to bond finishes to the ply which will eliminate a huge part of the moisture away. Good Tip. If you can try to avoid getting your project done during rainy season, it tends to help a little. But the real perfect solution to this problem is that people have to pay more and carpenters in Singapore should start using heat presses. Or better just a heat pressing service for multiple carpenters to help keep cost lower.

Hope the above information makes everyone understand a little more.

[warrgogo 0]

I just want to highlight some on the plywood and laminate,Soild Plywood consist of 5 to 7 layer so that when it contract and expand it won't warp easily unlike blockwood chip board or recycle wood.

For laminate parts not all laminate is water resistants and the area must not have any moisture and wood will absorb water but if the laminate is made from (HPL) High Pressure Laminate definitely is scratch resistant that's why when your house is flood the whole laminate floor or cabinet will spoil,colour will start to fade off.

Hope this will helps you guys more and do reply to me on any question because i doing some research on the materials itself