Mba - Rip Off Or Pay Off?

[gohkm 1]

Hi,

Just my 2 cents worth of view......Last time i also think of doing MBA...........but then i feel its too

expensive.........i feel that i got a degree good enuff..........after degree, if u r capable, no need prove to school anymore, prove to yourself.......instead of using that $20k to $40k (or more) to earn a MBA.....u might as well use that money to challenge yourself and try to earn $1 million with it..........on the way of challenging yourself, u surely will learn things which MBA will teach you......but u learn it the hard way........but also good cos it made u remember those hard learn experience....

Last time after degree, i am trying to get a master degree also.........one day my thoughts change....i saw jackie chan got awarded a degree from a reputable university............but i dont think jackie chan attended university before........then i realise if u r good, many good university will give you free degree, master or even phd......so from then onwards i prove to myself instead of proving to school........

One way to improve your business ability is to talk or mingle with business people and not from books.........last time my boss and i attended a meeting with a country manager of a hardware company. That country manager convince my boss(infront of me) to buy a hardware using his mouth only. I am dumbfounded. No demonstration also. Then i convince i must talk like him. I spend 3 months learning by keeps interacting with him. Lucky he dont know, haha, or else must pay school fee. I learn the way he talk, his confidence, his eyes contact, his voice, his body gesture and even his laughter.

sorry abit longwinded. Have a nice weekend guys...

Rgds,

James

Edited February 29, 2008 by gohkm

[zirhk3355 1]

Would like to put forth this analogy that I learnt recently:

To be a successful person is like build a good house. You see, you need a host of stuff to build an excellent place of abode; skilled workers, architectural designers, equipment, brand name/reputation, past experience, etc.

Now, if you want to buy a house, would you look for a developer that owns the most expensive excavator? Or one that has state-of-the-art piler? Of course the level of technology that the developer has is important, but its only ONE of the criteria you would consider. What is the point of having excellent equipment when the developer do not have the skills, experience and know-how to put it to good use? And on the other hand, if a developer is 30 years into the business, with a battalion of craftmen, world-famous architects and a reputation of building world-class projects, would you really mind that they are using old and backdated equipment??

Education is equivalent to the equipment that the developer owns. Having studied for some 18 years in total, I am of opinion that anyone can be highly educated as long as you are have normal intelligence, money and time. Education, just like a piece of equipment, is only good for those who know how to put it to good use.

Its quite the same for employers: You might raise some eyebrows with that stack of A3-sized thick papers with curvy fonts, but it only work for that first three mins. Once you open your mouth, the focus will be on YOU as a person, as a potential contributor to the business/organization; that stack of papers? It will be pushed aside. So while its true that having a degree might open some doors, but so what?? Having an open door in front does not get you the job; you got to convince that interviewer behind the door to let you thru!

Morale of the story: Study if you think you would benefit from the education, ie it will enhance your ability and make you capable enough to handle that dream job, NOT just to get the job. At the end of the day, education is all about upgrade YOURSELF, not to show people that you have papers. Like equipment owns by a developer, nobody really gives a d*mn.

[Phantom 1]

I do agree with zirk on what he has mentioned, to add on a little, To say whether a masters or a degree for the matter of fact is a rip off or a pay off really depends on how ppl view the value of an education.

In my job, I don't need a degree but i went to get one anyway.

1) to get more insights and to broaden my knowledge

2) to open doors.

I'm also thinking of taking up a Masters from SMU in the next 2 years.

I'm looking at the Msc in Wealth Management / Msc in Applied Finance

Having said all that, its near impossible to quantify something as intangible as an education.

So tell yourself if its worth investing in yourself.

"If knowledge is power. Absolute knowledge is absolute power."

Quote from Brian Tracy..

[Relacker 1]

Its quite the same for employers: You might raise some eyebrows with that stack of A3-sized thick papers with curvy fonts, but it only work for that first three mins. Once you open your mouth, the focus will be on YOU as a person, as a potential contributor to the business/organization; that stack of papers? It will be pushed aside. So while its true that having a degree might open some doors, but so what?? Having an open door in front does not get you the job; you got to convince that interviewer behind the door to let you thru!

Morale of the story: Study if you think you would benefit from the education, ie it will enhance your ability and make you capable enough to handle that dream job, NOT just to get the job. At the end of the day, education is all about upgrade YOURSELF, not to show people that you have papers. Like equipment owns by a developer, nobody really gives a d*mn.

personally, i am not bragging, i believe i have what it takes to be a top manager but 1st i need to get that interview and in your words, i need to "raise some eyebrows " but i will not want to do riogorous MBA that may give u a headache and takes away your quality of life with your family and work for the present employer! Also rigorous does not mean relevant !

I mean NTU degree is so much more rigorous then some overseas ones yet when i started works i find that i study so hard yet some of the things i study are obsolete, while the overseas students though have a easier time have put their training into something more up to date like learning how to use certain SW tools for their calculation of course besides the theory of it!

You echo the same sentiments as me ," study is to upgrade YOURSELF, not to show people that you have papers. Like equipment owns by a developer, nobody really gives a d*mn." but we do know here that employer will want that piece of "equipment" before allowing you an interview.

Think about it: what if you have rigorous MBA, but you always flop during the interview, unable to think on your feet? will rigorous MBA benefit you? on the other hand if you get MBA that is reputable but not as rigorous, you get a chance into the interview. You can still get the job if you impress during the interview.

[waileong 0]

It's a huge question guys, and something that's been agonising business schools a lot in the last decade-- the declining value (and perceived value) of an MBA. 20 years ago, one could expect a pay rise with an MBA, but not any more. You might have read stories of how Wall Street investment bankers are skipping business school in the last few years, and how some people now believe that an MFA could be worth more than an MBA...

Notwithstanding the above, few people now think that an MBA will make you a better manager in and of itself. In fact, there's lots of jokes about how MBA's are out of touch with the ground because they do too much theory. Read Dilbert.

When employers specify that they want an applicant with an MBA, it's for several reasons:

a. Most grad business schools require that the applicant provide strong letters of recommendation saying that the applicant has management potential. This usually means that your CEO or senior management is willing to stick their neck out for you. That is proof that someone senior and credible believes in your potential, which is what potential employers want.

b. Difficulty of entrance. The high GMAT score, the strong undergrad results, the admission essays, the panel interviews, the strong letters of references, etc. are there to ensure entrance of the fittest. Potential employers thus feel that an MBA from a good school is a mark of quality.

c. Difficulty of completion. An MBA known for its rigour to complete demonstrates to the employer the applicant's discipline and ability to multitask. This ability to juggle complex tasks is what employers want.

I interview people from time to time, and it's quite amazing what fresh grads come out with these days. They typically have an honours degree or two if they did a double-degree undergrad programme, and the smart ones will even have a Masters (eg Masters of Economics, Comp Sc, etc) which they did because they got a scholarship. So the really bright ones will have 3 degrees (2 undergrad + 1 postgrad) before they start their first job!

When they reach their thirties. these guys will typically go for another Masters degree such as an MBA, or one relevant to their work such as an MPA, Masters in Supply Chain Management, etc. So they would have 4 or 5 degrees before 40.

Such is the reality today.

Jackie Chan, etc. don't need degrees. More importantly, such degrees are "honorary", ie not real, and is meant to give publicity to the school. And unless you are big name celebrity like him, few schools will give you such a degree as it won't give them the publicity they want.

There is a massive difference between business or entrepreneurial ability and managerial ability. MBA tries to teach the latter, eg how to manage people, reward people, motivate people; how to analyse financial statements; how to do marketing, etc. The former cannot be taught easily, because it is about risk taking, building business relationships, etc. Which is why you learn to talk like your boss, etc. But to be a real entrepreneur-- to be willing to walk away from a comfy job, risk your life savings, etc. on a business venture-- people either have it or they don't.

Hi,

Just my 2 cents worth of view......Last time i also think of doing MBA...........but then i feel its too

expensive.........i feel that i got a degree good enuff..........after degree, if u r capable, no need prove to school anymore, prove to yourself.......instead of using that $20k to $40k (or more) to earn a MBA.....u might as well use that money to challenge yourself and try to earn $1 million with it..........on the way of challenging yourself, u surely will learn things which MBA will teach you......but u learn it the hard way........but also good cos it made u remember those hard learn experience....

Last time after degree, i am trying to get a master degree also.........one day my thoughts change....i saw jackie chan got awarded a degree from a reputable university............but i dont think jackie chan attended university before........then i realise if u r good, many good university will give you free degree, master or even phd......so from then onwards i prove to myself instead of proving to school........

One way to improve your business ability is to talk or mingle with business people and not from books.........last time my boss and i attended a meeting with a country manager of a hardware company. That country manager convince my boss(infront of me) to buy a hardware using his mouth only. I am dumbfounded. No demonstration also. Then i convince i must talk like him. I spend 3 months learning by keeps interacting with him. Lucky he dont know, haha, or else must pay school fee. I learn the way he talk, his confidence, his eyes contact, his voice, his body gesture and even his laughter.

sorry abit longwinded. Have a nice weekend guys...

Rgds,

James

Edited March 2, 2008 by waileong

[zirhk3355 1]

personally, i am not bragging, i believe i have what it takes to be a top manager but 1st i need to get that interview and in your words, i need to "raise some eyebrows " but i will not want to do riogorous MBA that may give u a headache and takes away your quality of life with your family and work for the present employer! Also rigorous does not mean relevant !

You speak as though the MBA is the ONLY thing standing in your way to get that dream job.

I beg to differ. Why?

Just ask yourself this question: Are you the BEST manager that any employer can take in? If not, what happens if, for example, someone of your same calibre is in the same interview selection, but he holds a more 'prestigious' MBA? You lose out, isn't it?

Think about it: what if you have rigorous MBA, but you always flop during the interview, unable to think on your feet? will rigorous MBA benefit you? on the other hand if you get MBA that is reputable but not as rigorous, you get a chance into the interview. You can still get the job if you impress during the interview.

Aren't you still taking a chance? Since you are confident of impressing the interviewer, isn't it better if you go in with a good MBA? I am concerned that you will be greatly disappointed if you still cannot get your dream job after getting a MBA.

But anyway, I cannot emphasise more that studying should NEVER be taken as the direct path to a better job/future. It must be taken with the mindset to enhance oneself, and then INDIRECTLY improve the chances of getting a better job/future.

Edited March 2, 2008 by zirhk3355

[l_club23 0]

You speak as though the MBA is the ONLY thing standing in your way to get that dream job.

I beg to differ. Why?

Just ask yourself this question: Are you the BEST manager that any employer can take in? If not, what happens if, for example, someone of your same calibre is in the same interview selection, but he holds a more 'prestigious' MBA? You lose out, isn't it?

Aren't you still taking a chance? Since you are confident of impressing the interviewer, isn't it better if you go in with a good MBA? I am concerned that you will be greatly disappointed if you still cannot get your dream job after getting a MBA.

But anyway, I cannot emphasise more that studying should NEVER be taken as the direct path to a better job/future. It must be taken with the mindset to enhance oneself, and then INDIRECTLY improve the chances of getting a better job/future.

Ideally it should, but with money involved, as always in our society, it will come directly into the picture whether you like it or not.

[Relacker 1]

You speak as though the MBA is the ONLY thing standing in your way to get that dream job.

I beg to differ. Why?

Just ask yourself this question: Are you the BEST manager that any employer can take in? If not, what happens if, for example, someone of your same calibre is in the same interview selection, but he holds a more 'prestigious' MBA? You lose out, isn't it?Aren't you still taking a chance? Since you are confident of impressing the interviewer, isn't it better if you go in with a good MBA? I am concerned that you will be greatly disappointed if you still cannot get your dream job after getting a MBA.

But anyway, I cannot emphasise more that studying should NEVER be taken as the direct path to a better job/future. It must be taken with the mindset to enhance oneself, and then INDIRECTLY improve the chances of getting a better job/future.

actually , your answer tell me that you r the one thinking that way not me!

So what if someone comes in with a 'better MBA ,'Then u have to convince the employer, that despite that, you r still the man for the job. Hence it MBA is no more than supplement to my ability.

Pls do not be concern, becuase it will not happen. But do save the concern for someone else.

Everything has a risk. the same when u r studying for a degree, can u gurarantee urself u get into 1st class honours and dean's list with so many china and indian wizards around? even if u do, are not down in the pecking order behind those on prestigious scholarships? There is no way to find a conclusion if we argue along you line of thought.

[l_club23 0]

actually , your answer tell me that you r the one thinking that way not me!

So what if someone comes in with a 'better MBA ,'Then u have to convince the employer, that despite that, you r still the man for the job. Hence it MBA is no more than supplement to my ability.

Pls do not be concern, becuase it will not happen. But do save the concern for someone else.

Everything has a risk. the same when u r studying for a degree, can u gurarantee urself u get into 1st class honours and dean's list with so many china and indian wizards around? even if u do, are not down in the pecking order behind those on prestigious scholarships? There is no way to find a conclusion if we argue along you line of thought.

Actually, If someone comes along with a Chicago Graduate School of Business MBA vs yours, I'm pretty sure that will happen...

Edited March 19, 2008 by l_club23

[Relacker 1]

Actually, If someone comes along with a Chicago Graduate School of Business MBA vs yours, I'm pretty sure that will happen...

does not bother me a single bit! if i think along ur line of thought, and if i did not have 1st class honours, i will never gone out for job interview since i will worry there will be many 1st class honours ahead of me! not only that those scholars, and experienced staff will all be ahead of me.

But i still apply for a job and thank God, i still manage to get pretty decent one. So having some who has a better degree than me simply does not dither me a single bit. Time and chance come to every man, see if u can grab it.

[l_club23 0]

does not bother me a single bit! if i think along ur line of thought, and if i did not have 1st class honours, i will never gone out for job interview since i will worry there will be many 1st class honours ahead of me! not only that those scholars, and experienced staff will all be ahead of me.

But i still apply for a job and thank God, i still manage to get pretty decent one. So having some who has a better degree than me simply does not dither me a single bit. Time and chance come to every man, see if u can grab it.

I didn't say you shouldn't apply for a job if your results are nothing short of fantastic... I just begged to differ on your point that, and I quote from your earlier post "that will not happen" in which you were implying that a better MBA does not make a difference...

[Relacker 1]

I didn't say you shouldn't apply for a job if your results are nothing short of fantastic... I just begged to differ on your point that, and I quote from your earlier post "that will not happen" in which you were implying that a better MBA does not make a difference...

i am referring to Mr zhirk saying that he is concern that i will not land my dream job after studying an MBA, being a optimist, i say that will not happen. Sure a ivy league MBA sure does make a difference. Same ;like comparing 1st class Honours with 2nd class honours. But does not stop those in 2nd class from competing in an interview and getting a job. same logic

[l_club23 0]

i am referring to Mr zhirk saying that he is concern that i will not land my dream job after studying an MBA, being a optimist, i say that will not happen. Sure a ivy league MBA sure does make a difference. Same ;like comparing 1st class Honours with 2nd class honours. But does not stop those in 2nd class from competing in an interview and getting a job. same logic

Didn't know you were referring to the earlier post since you quoted my post in your reply...

[Relacker 1]

Didn't know you were referring to the earlier post since you quoted my post in your reply...

hi iclub,

if u scroll up, u see that i am replying to zirk3355 post not yours.

You speak as though the MBA is the ONLY thing standing in your way to get that dream job.

I beg to differ. Why?

Just ask yourself this question: Are you the BEST manager that any employer can take in? If not, what happens if, for example, someone of your same calibre is in the same interview selection, but he holds a more 'prestigious' MBA? You lose out, isn't it?Aren't you still taking a chance? Since you are confident of impressing the interviewer, isn't it better if you go in with a good MBA? I am concerned that you will be greatly disappointed if you still cannot get your dream job after getting a MBA.

But anyway, I cannot emphasise more that studying should NEVER be taken as the direct path to a better job/future. It must be taken with the mindset to enhance oneself, and then INDIRECTLY improve the chances of getting a better job/future.

actually , your answer tell me that you r the one thinking that way not me!

So what if someone comes in with a 'better MBA ,'Then u have to convince the employer, that despite that, you r still the man for the job. Hence it MBA is no more than supplement to my ability.

Pls do not be concern, becuase it will not happen. But do save the concern for someone else.

Everything has a risk. the same when u r studying for a degree, can u gurarantee urself u get into 1st class honours and dean's list with so many china and indian wizards around? even if u do, are not down in the pecking order behind those on prestigious scholarships? There is no way to find a conclusion if we argue along you line of thought.

[l_club23 0]

does not bother me a single bit! if i think along ur line of thought, and if i did not have 1st class honours, i will never gone out for job interview since i will worry there will be many 1st class honours ahead of me! not only that those scholars, and experienced staff will all be ahead of me.

But i still apply for a job and thank God, i still manage to get pretty decent one. So having some who has a better degree than me simply does not dither me a single bit. Time and chance come to every man, see if u can grab it.

Actually, I'm referring to this where you quoted my post in your reply.