Mba - Rip Off Or Pay Off?

[Relacker 1]

Hi guys,

i am thinking of doing a mba. but i do not think i can qualify for a ivy league school MBA as i have only 2nd lower honours. also i think i may not wat to spend time to do the gmat.

i am thinking of doing the university of western Australia MBA. this does not require gmat. also it is near my place which is at tiong bahru psd academy, cost 25k

i am engineering background in R&D line but i hope to break into business side be it electronic mnc or not it does not matter as i want away from technical work, i had enuff.

i watch the sense and sensibilities which a recruiter say that doing a local or overseas mba does not differ much to employer unless ur mba is from ivy league schools. which is why i thinking of mab from UWA since SMU or NTU or UWA does not matter and i do not have to waster precious time to get the gmat for entry. infact i have already received a call that a acceptance letter has been sent to me.

any one of u guys can give me advice? or if u have taken the MBA from UWA , pls tell me if it is good in furthering ur career and help me achieve my objective of diversifying away from engineering with a better pay?

[zirhk3355 1]

I am concerned about the validity of that MBA that you got accepted for.

Take me for eg, I was an engrg diploma holder, then move on to study business. Struggling like mad! Unlike engrg, where everything is very straightforward (ie correct means correct, wrong means wrong), many business modules got no right/wrong answer; its how you answer the question. This was very alien to me, but managed to pull thru and graduated.

Then when I was taking my MBA, so many things are related to my basic degree, of which I wouldn't have understood had not taken the basic degree. There's no basic foundation already, because you are supposed to have that. So its a wonder how you would be able to pull thru at this stage, and why you can be accepted in the first place.

Lastly, about relevance/usefulness of a MBA, well just look at the job ads' requirements: Its always degree/MBA. Very seldom you see requirements stating ONLY MBA. When I checked with the guys who are sitting besides me waiting for interview, more than half the time they are just degree-holders.

In short: My suggestion is that you take up a basic business degree, eg SIM's UOL course that has honours program as well. Study hard, work your foundation and get a 2nd upp or even 1st class. That will beat any MBAs anytime, especially the one you are applying for.

Everyone can go take MBA, pay money only what. But not everyone can get hons in their basic degree, and that's what employers are looking for. In today's context, especially when we are talking about entry-level, MBA is no longer a higher qualification; its more of an enrichment program for experienced businessmen and senior management to move up the ladder.

Hope this helps; good luck!!

[Relacker 1]

I am concerned about the validity of that MBA that you got accepted for.

Take me for eg, I was an engrg diploma holder, then move on to study business. Struggling like mad! Unlike engrg, where everything is very straightforward (ie correct means correct, wrong means wrong), many business modules got no right/wrong answer; its how you answer the question. This was very alien to me, but managed to pull thru and graduated.

Then when I was taking my MBA, so many things are related to my basic degree, of which I wouldn't have understood had not taken the basic degree. There's no basic foundation already, because you are supposed to have that. So its a wonder how you would be able to pull thru at this stage, and why you can be accepted in the first place.

Lastly, about relevance/usefulness of a MBA, well just look at the job ads' requirements: Its always degree/MBA. Very seldom you see requirements stating ONLY MBA. When I checked with the guys who are sitting besides me waiting for interview, more than half the time they are just degree-holders.

In short: My suggestion is that you take up a basic business degree, eg SIM's UOL course that has honours program as well. Study hard, work your foundation and get a 2nd upp or even 1st class. That will beat any MBAs anytime, especially the one you are applying for.

Everyone can go take MBA, pay money only what. But not everyone can get hons in their basic degree, and that's what employers are looking for. In today's context, especially when we are talking about entry-level, MBA is no longer a higher qualification; its more of an enrichment program for experienced businessmen and senior management to move up the ladder.

Hope this helps; good luck!!

Thanks Zhirk for your points. Im addition to the course content, the CNA show on MBA interviewed a recruiter and also a grad from NTU MBA. Both also agreed that one of the perks from the MBA is the network u gain there which u would otherwise not have if u stayed in your line of profession. Which both e recruiter and the graduate agreed.

Otherwise the recuiter say a MBA may not lead to higher pay immediately.

I think for MBA course, there are some basic modules you have to take. like basic accounting which will be a breeze for those who have the background. But for me, i will need to learn from scratch.

But it is only 1 module, the rest of the modules like marketing, handling cross cultural is more like how u answer the questions. So as long as i able to pull thru the more accounting related modules, i should be ok.

the UWA MBA is a general mba not a mba for financial engineering which will be much tougher.

it will take me another 3 years full time to do a biz degree course. if part time it could stretch to 5 years, that will be a bit too long, dun u think so?

Edited November 22, 2007 by Relacker

[zirhk3355 1]

Thanks Zhirk for your points. Im addition to the course content, the CNA show on MBA interviewed a recruiter and also a grad from NTU MBA. Both also agreed that one of the perks from the MBA is the network u gain there which u would otherwise not have if u stayed in your line of profession. Which both e recruiter and the graduate agreed.

Otherwise the recuiter say a MBA may not lead to higher pay immediately.

I think for MBA course, there are some basic modules you have to take. like basic accounting which will be a breeze for those who have the background. But for me, i will need to learn from scratch.

But it is only 1 module, the rest of the modules like marketing, handling cross cultural is more like how u answer the questions. So as long as i able to pull thru the more accounting related modules, i should be ok.

the UWA MBA is a general mba not a mba for financial engineering which will be much tougher.

it will take me another 3 years full time to do a biz degree course. if part time it could stretch to 5 years, that will be a bit too long, dun u think so?

About networking while doing a MBA, well its right and wrong. I believe they are talking about executive MBA where one of the entry criteria is like a significant no of years of relevant working experience (eg 10 yrs in business management position). The normal MBAs will have alot of students with had very basic working experience (like me that time!! Hehe).

Now even if you can really meet some you-tou-you-lian kind of people, I suspect it won't be too useful to you because you are going to switch career, right? To you, they are too far ahead already, and to them you are as good as a fresh graduate because whatever they say you might not understand.

Coursework-wise, well yes some of the marketing/management subjects you can just smoke thru if you understand it. However how confident are you to graduate with flying colours? Remember in Singapore, grades are quite impt to employers, esp big firms, MNCs.

As for duration, there are various business degree courses out there that can be completed within two years, even on part-time basis. Like above suggested, go for a honours program and you won't be wrong.

Lastly, don't mind me asking, are you more keen in an MBA compared to degree because of the stigma that its a 'higher' qualification, or that it sounds funny to be doing another degree when you are already a degree-holder now? Well at the end of the day there is no right or wrong, its really up to you.

But what I am trying to put to you is myself, a MBA holder but sometimes still losing out to those with business hons degrees. You might have a different luck with employers, some good friends who are willing to support you when you switch careers, so consider all factors and make your best choice.

Good luck!

[Relacker 1]

About networking while doing a MBA, well its right and wrong. I believe they are talking about executive MBA where one of the entry criteria is like a significant no of years of relevant working experience (eg 10 yrs in business management position). The normal MBAs will have alot of students with had very basic working experience (like me that time!! Hehe).

Now even if you can really meet some you-tou-you-lian kind of people, I suspect it won't be too useful to you because you are going to switch career, right? To you, they are too far ahead already, and to them you are as good as a fresh graduate because whatever they say you might not understand.

Coursework-wise, well yes some of the marketing/management subjects you can just smoke thru if you understand it. However how confident are you to graduate with flying colours? Remember in Singapore, grades are quite impt to employers, esp big firms, MNCs.

As for duration, there are various business degree courses out there that can be completed within two years, even on part-time basis. Like above suggested, go for a honours program and you won't be wrong.

Lastly, don't mind me asking, are you more keen in an MBA compared to degree because of the stigma that its a 'higher' qualification, or that it sounds funny to be doing another degree when you are already a degree-holder now? Well at the end of the day there is no right or wrong, its really up to you.

But what I am trying to put to you is myself, a MBA holder but sometimes still losing out to those with business hons degrees. You might have a different luck with employers, some good friends who are willing to support you when you switch careers, so consider all factors and make your best choice.

Good luck!

Yes to a certain extent i do feel that i already have degree, another degree even though of different field is not so attractive to me. Even technical field , i would be doing a master of science instead of a basic degree. besides, i do think a MBA will not be as though as a basic degree it is a more basic course to equip ppl who have already foundation to go to management or financial.

So i will see if i can get into a biz hons programme for part time that is 2 years, realluy doubt if there is any.

[Relacker 1]

Yes to a certain extent i do feel that i already have degree, another degree even though of different field is not so attractive to me. Even technical field , i would be doing a master of science instead of a basic degree. besides, i do think a MBA will not be as though as a basic degree it is a more basic course to equip ppl who have already foundation to go to management or financial.

So i will see if i can get into a biz hons programme for part time that is 2 years, realluy doubt if there is any.

i mean "as tough"

[raincole 0]

Degree is one thing, the other aspect is working experience else your pay will more or less remain there.

[Relacker 1]

Degree is one thing, the other aspect is working experience else your pay will more or less remain there.

i am in engineering technical field, but in order to go into management, i think getting an MBA will allow me the break through i need. i have to start somewhere, my current environment is very good for studying.

i do have 5-6 year of experience but it's a technical field not management. So etting an MBA hopefully will allow me into management.

[zacey 0]

i am in engineering technical field, but in order to go into management, i think getting an MBA will allow me the break through i need. i have to start somewhere, my current environment is very good for studying.

i do have 5-6 year of experience but it's a technical field not management. So etting an MBA hopefully will allow me into management.

actually, it may or may not allow you into management... i have a EMBA qualification.. but my company do not recognise MBAs... and there are too many MBA holders out there.. so i really dunno when i will get my pay off..

[leen 2]

hi, juz my 2cents worth..

1) abt getting MBA & where to get it

this is advice from my lecturers in uni. get gd results and go to ivy league for well known MBAs which is more for socialising & netwking and not for gd result. can pass can already.

2) to get MBA 1st or basic degree 1st?

a biz degree do not emcompass only accounting. you are not doing basic accounting. you are doing cost accounting, financial mgmt, strategic financial mgmt & investment planning for own company, in own country and cross countries.

these topics are not easy topics, not just numbers only. many ppl (even biz students) flunked these subjects. and these subjects doesn't even need you to know how to do accounting. no longer there are debit and credit, but formulas, etc. and also require you to do up a whole company report and those annual report. something like what the financial auditors are doing. and these are done in basic degree.

i had taken 36 subjects + 1 project in 3years for my hons and there are definitely ups & downs. and these 36 subjects hv their own assignments & 1 project each. you can imagine the tons of books & information to read thru.

3) any difference between MBA and degree? and does the results affect your interviews, promotions, employment, etc.?

pte sector

in big company, there are simply too many degree, MBA, PHD, PE holders. so even if 1 have PHD also not much effect, only the salary will be the major difference and also the responsibilities, unless you are the CEO.

entry to big company of coz depend on the interview and HR will ask the usual question like why your results so so .... from the uni etc. don't forget they also employ ppl with poor results.

unless the big company got vy high standards, eg. the recent casion op, they only employ top notch ppl and impt posts are filled by their main staffs direct from US.

public sector

of coz your results will matter as they really look at them with microscope!

but once you are selected, you will find that a degree or MBA is like nobody in the orgn. they treat those scholars (who are bonded to them) more value than the rest.

POLITIC

everywhere, big or small company, pte or public sectors, all got politics.

small company, boss scare you anyhow use their money so all decisions are controlled by them.

big company worst, tons of politics and definitely decision making is not up to you, unless you are at managerial posts but also most decisions had to be done with a group of ppl.

4) what do i do if i got a MBA or biz degree?

basically, mgmt lor.. but depending on which area.

in sales, got budget to meet. ususal ang mo companies practice quarterly reporting. thats why staffs turnover rate is high.

in HR, deals bascially with all HR problm. and if its big company, you get to obtain gd experience. in small company, you get to tackle mostly are pay and recruitment problms only.

there's no company who will employ a staffs for mgmt only. do what? it must be defined.

purchasing will not be entirely left to a section or a few ppl to handle, most big companies will hv a few group to vet thru and this is what ppl usually calls red tape.

like what some of the folks here say, technical engrg are more straight forward. but if you are considering switching line, maybe can do technical sales? or can try taking up another field of study, eg. into biological waste mgmt etc. which will be the next century big thing as most of these countries need such ppl and SG definitely require such ppl due to constraints of natural resources.

of coz theres no right or wrong, but do consider carefully. there are some ppl with degrees and their 1st 2years went flying in leaps & jumps but after that its kinda stagnant, and new and younger ppl are replacing your importance in the company, are you able to take that?

hope the above helps...

[JuzChris 1]

MBA is a master's degree in business administration.. And yes it's a DEGREE course. Had been popular w/ engg grads who wish to gain insights to wat biz & mgmt is all abt.

"MBA designation originated in the US, emerging fm the late 19th century as the country industrialized and companies sought out scientific approaches to management."

IMHO it's hard to associate ROI on a MBA directly.. rather treat it a self improvement course a way to open up yr mind & prepare u for the nxt phase of yr life/ career.

Do u need a MBA to get into mgmt? No.

Do u need a MBA to climb a corporate ladder? Yes by large.

In many large MNC, mgmt or leadership team do hv untold successor plan layout. The Q u probably want to ask is how u can b one of the successor candidates within the pool of Co talent. Every individual hv their own set of values & principles that they hold by. Observe wat yr mgmt/ leaders hv. Work towards dat & cultivate similar skill set, along the way added yr own values. I believe every individual is unique & how u add value to an organization & establish ppl network will help to determine how far u will go.. Hope this helps

[l_club23 0]

IMHO, only an mba from a top school will manage to pay off for itself within 3 years... Chicago... INSEAD...

mbas from other schools are a dime a dozen and probably won't help much...

[raincole 0]

I am considering a Degree in Business instead of MBA cos I feel a double degree means more than MBA. Not sure if the working people feel the same way.

[waileong 0]

1. Why do you think almost every grad business school wants a GMAT score? Because they want to compete on the quality of their students, to boast that the average GMAT of their students is XXX.

==> MBA without GMAT requirement would be a waste of time. The school doesn't care about its reputation or the quality of its students. It also reflects badly on you-- do you not care about the quality of the education you receive?

2. MBA can help you move way from Eng only if you genuinely like doing other things (eg sales, marketing). If you don't have aptitude outside Eng, it will show eventually.

3. Better pay or not depends solely on your performance. A cheap MBA on your CV will not cause any employer to pay you more.

Bottom line-- You are trying to cut corners, you don't value your own education. Why don't you give me your $25k instead.

Hi guys,

i am thinking of doing a mba. but i do not think i can qualify for a ivy league school MBA as i have only 2nd lower honours. also i think i may not wat to spend time to do the gmat.

i am thinking of doing the university of western Australia MBA. this does not require gmat. also it is near my place which is at tiong bahru psd academy, cost 25k

Edited January 29, 2008 by waileong

[Relacker 1]

1. Why do you think almost every grad business school wants a GMAT score? Because they want to compete on the quality of their students, to boast that the average GMAT of their students is XXX.

==> MBA without GMAT requirement would be a waste of time. The school doesn't care about its reputation or the quality of its students. It also reflects badly on you-- do you not care about the quality of the education you receive?

2. MBA can help you move way from Eng only if you genuinely like doing other things (eg sales, marketing). If you don't have aptitude outside Eng, it will show eventually.

3. Better pay or not depends solely on your performance. A cheap MBA on your CV will not cause any employer to pay you more.

Bottom line-- You are trying to cut corners, you don't value your own education. Why don't you give me your $25k instead.

no, i disagree and i am not trying to cut corners. i do not want to invest my time and $ only to find they are not much different from other MBAs.

actually i need to clarify is that University of Western Australia is a top 5 Uni in Australia, not a certificate mill. The reason they do not need gmat score is because they do no think students who did well in gmat will do well in MBA, hence they welcome ppl with gmat to do and give them a chance to excel in it. it is not cheapo MBA, it is 2nd tier besides the ivy leagues MBA. it cost 30k, so the students there are serious about it.

personally, i do not have sponsorship, so to study ivy league mba will cost around 100k. i cannot afford. also the time and effort to get a gmat score to go in.

even then SMU or NTU mba will cost 45k, also u will need to do gmat and the course is rigorous, which means it will take it's toll on your present job and also family time. But at the end of it when u compare the MBA with university of western Australia, it hardly look any different since UWA does rank highly too, in fact if angmo employer look at the mba from NTU , he may think it is from china!

To british or european, Australia's education seemed much more familiar than one from singapore too. hence i am drawn towards this degree.

of course everything depend on your aptitude, that's so cliche.

So why dun you just start work after o level or better after your psle ? then work to be millionaire , and write a book about it and all the ah beng and ah lian will quote u as an example that they dun need to study but still excel in life cos they got aptitude! seriously i do see many ppl with aptitude but lose out on opprotunities , so a degree does go a long way to open opportunities to him/her. i will not have gotten my R&D job and countless opportunities if i have not studied for engineering degree, even though i have tonnes of aptitude duh...

hence i see getting a mba as also a key to new opportunities and at a higher level and scale.

I also warn you not presume and assume negatively of others just becuase you disagree with them. You may have your own opinions , but need you be so assumptious of other's ppl's character just becuase they choose a different path from you?

if i want i can say the below of you:

so u think taking rigorous MBA means not cutting corners?

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Edited March 2, 2008 by Phantom