Help! Can I Cancel Reno Agreement ?

[dreamgirl 0]

Hi,

Need some help from experts here.

I signed up ID basic package during reno exhibition and paid $800 deposit (kena sweet talk by ID). The first 20% deposit is not paid yet.

I'm actually quite disappointed with the service now, they were so fast in reply before we give $800 deposit during reno exhibition, but now the service really slow. Also some of the additional stuff that were quoted during expo end up different now. Like I wanted to upgrade from laminated flooring to parquet, previously the ID say no problem, very cheap one, just add $1 persqf. Now end up $3.5 psf leh... (Feel sorry we didn't ask him to write in black and white instead just verbally)

The prices of other additional carpentry that we want to top up to the package also makes the package not attractive anymore. I hv a feeling since we already paid deposit on basic package, can slaughter us when we want to top up additional work. We feel like cancelling the service.

FYI, until know, the company have not done any service, I mean, they only come up with quo and crude design from 2D floor plan. There's no 3D picture or detailed drawing yet.

Do you know if it's possible to do so cos we have signed this basic package ? Can we get the money back ?

Cheers!

[phoenix 0]

Oh dear... another one.

You got to go read the T&C of your contract..every ID different. But high chance is you won't get back any deposits.

If deposits can be refunded juz like that then it serves no purpose liao.

[dreamgirl 0]

Yeah, I just saw another thread of ppl with the same situation.

These companies doing this really shld be reported to Case.

I dun mind throw away $800 as very expensive learning fee. But the T&C said 20% cancellation policy of total package which amount to $3600.

But if they haven't done any work (not even 3D and material selection), can we cancel this agreement ?

[help_needed 0]

Yeah, I just saw another thread of ppl with the same situation.

These companies doing this really shld be reported to Case.

I dun mind throw away $800 as very expensive learning fee. But the T&C said 20% cancellation policy of total package which amount to $3600.

But if they haven't done any work (not even 3D and material selection), can we cancel this agreement ?

Hi dreamgirl,

I guess we are in a similar situation, but so far, we receive the 3D drawings and had done some material selection.. But we do not have the cancellation charge. But the $800 is only for the drawing fee or is already committed as a contract?

[Cantona7 0]

Yeah, I just saw another thread of ppl with the same situation.

These companies doing this really shld be reported to Case.

I dun mind throw away $800 as very expensive learning fee. But the T&C said 20% cancellation policy of total package which amount to $3600.

But if they haven't done any work (not even 3D and material selection), can we cancel this agreement ?

Hi Dreamgirl,

Sad to hear ur experience from these salesman so long u had signed on the dotted line the contract is formed.

Normally any addition items add in the reno package is alway a killer part, so maybe u shld try to stick to ur package and alternate highlight ur feeling to the management and see what they can offer most impt u must bang the table harder then things can be neg.

[summerholiday 2]

yup talk to their management.. approached radac to see what can be done too..

[waileong 0]

1. You can't get money back.

2. You can cancel contract, but should see what are the penalties.

[h4happy 1]

Hi,

Need some help from experts here.

I signed up ID basic package during reno exhibition and paid $800 deposit (kena sweet talk by ID). The first 20% deposit is not paid yet.

I'm actually quite disappointed with the service now, they were so fast in reply before we give $800 deposit during reno exhibition, but now the service really slow. Also some of the additional stuff that were quoted during expo end up different now. Like I wanted to upgrade from laminated flooring to parquet, previously the ID say no problem, very cheap one, just add $1 persqf. Now end up $3.5 psf leh... (Feel sorry we didn't ask him to write in black and white instead just verbally)

The prices of other additional carpentry that we want to top up to the package also makes the package not attractive anymore. I hv a feeling since we already paid deposit on basic package, can slaughter us when we want to top up additional work. We feel like cancelling the service.

FYI, until know, the company have not done any service, I mean, they only come up with quo and crude design from 2D floor plan. There's no 3D picture or detailed drawing yet.

Do you know if it's possible to do so cos we have signed this basic package ? Can we get the money back ?

Cheers!

Oh, that is terrible.

Did you try to talk to the manager?

And tell them if I cancel it, can I use the money to ask your man to install doors, or wardrobe only?

[dreamgirl 0]

Thanks for all the suggestion. We will try to negotiate additional stuff prices with them first. If still fails, complain to the manager (I got hold of the sales' manager contact) and bang table if necessary.

I am just afraid if we decide to just take basic package only and cut the additional work, they will do sloppy job.

[Renovictim 0]

This industry needs to be tightened big time.

For years all this has been going on and yet nothing has been done.

The Police knows about it.

CAD knows about it.

RADAC knows about it.

Case knows about it.

BCA is aware of it.

HDB & URA knows about it.

And yet?

[waileong 0]

Know what? Do what? Nothing illegal has taken place. This is all caveat emptor stuff, and if any buyer think anything illegal has taken place, they should consult their lawyer about legal action.

There will always be people who make promises they can't keep, and there'll always be people who believe them. The govt does not exist to protect you from such people. Their job is to enforce the law, and giving poor quality service is not against the law.

This industry needs to be tightened big time.

For years all this has been going on and yet nothing has been done.

The Police knows about it.

CAD knows about it.

RADAC knows about it.

Case knows about it.

BCA is aware of it.

HDB & URA knows about it.

And yet?

Edited October 21, 2007 by waileong

[Renovictim 0]

Know what? Do what? Nothing illegal has taken place. This is all caveat emptor stuff, and if any buyer think anything illegal has taken place, they should consult their lawyer about legal action.

There will always be people who make promises they can't keep, and there'll always be people who believe them. The govt does not exist to protect you from such people. Their job is to enforce the law, and giving poor quality service is not against the law.

1) Getting advice from a lawyer can cost you quite a fair bit. And to state consulting a lawyer about legal action is easier said than done. A simple case review w/o ANY action taken can easily set you back by at least 3k.

2) It is already wrong by making claims that changing to parquet for only $1 more per sq ft when in actual fact is $3.50 more.

The misrepresentation made does allow the buyer to exit the contract without penalties involved.

There is of course fradulent misrepresentation and if suspected, should be reported.

Misrepresentation to induce a party into a contract does not involve the issue of Caveat Emptor. Caveat Emptor is in place IF there are no misrepresentations made in the beginning.

3) And as for Promises They Can't Keep, it can be a breach of contract and not just a promise that one cannot keep, assuming that a contract is in place. Keeping in mind that this is a contract we are talking about.

My advice is this, next time you look for a renovation contractor, bring a digital voice recorder along.

Make it known to the person that you will be recording the conversation and put the recorder on the table.

If in doubt at any time, you can always replay the conversation as evidence.

It can be transcripted if necessary and used in court for a civil case.

Dreamgirl, without any evidence about the parquet pricing, you basically do not have a basis for the cancellation of your contract without penalties or have your deposit refunded.

You will definitely have to take up the issue with the management with regards to the service provided and see if that helps.

As waileong says, it will be a case of bad service.

Edited October 21, 2007 by Renovictim

[waileong 0]

I beg to differ.

1. One should obviously start by asking lawyer friends, or even free legal clinics. I can't imagine one walking into any lawyer's office just like that, not when it's not even clear whether there's something worth pursuing.

2. If there is a valid contract that shows the additional price is $1 psf, then one should try to enforce it. I would like to ask the orig poster, where is the contract? My view is that without any reliable proof of this "representation", it's no better than a puff.

3. My point about promises they can't keep is that one should not look to Case, the govt, Radac, etc. This is at best a civil law matter, there is no basis for the govt to get involved in a contractual dispute between two private parties. People and companies get into such situations all the time, that's why there's contract law and the due legal process. It's a civil matter, not a criminal matter.

4. You'll turn a lot of people off voice recorders. My advice is, don't pay "deposits" at reno fairs. Not unless you get a valid and binding contract with a firm quotation (incl. additional and optional items) and a clause which clearly allows you to regain your deposit (or at least part of it) if you decide to change your mind.

Unfortunately, I must say that most people cannot foresee every single optional item they will need at the start of the process. Hence, even if you have a quotation when you sign the contract, you may later request items which will require further quotation. And the contractor, if he wants to take advantage of you, can obviously quote high prices for such items, and it may not be practical for you to terminate the contract halfway and call in another contractor.

In other words, you need to find a contractor you can trust. A contract you can rely on is a necessary but not sufficient condition for reno success.

1) Getting advice from a lawyer can cost you quite a fair bit. And to state consulting a lawyer about legal action is easier said than done. A simple case review w/o ANY action taken can easily set you back by at least 3k.

2) It is already wrong by making claims that changing to parquet for only $1 more per sq ft when in actual fact is $3.50 more.

The misrepresentation made does allow the buyer to exit the contract without penalties involved.

There is of course fradulent misrepresentation and if suspected, should be reported.

Misrepresentation to induce a party into a contract does not involve the issue of Caveat Emptor. Caveat Emptor is in place IF there are no misrepresentations made in the beginning.

3) And as for Promises They Can't Keep, it can be a breach of contract and not just a promise that one cannot keep, assuming that a contract is in place. Keeping in mind that this is a contract we are talking about.

My advice is this, next time you look for a renovation contractor, bring a digital voice recorder along.

Make it known to the person that you will be recording the conversation and put the recorder on the table.

If in doubt at any time, you can always replay the conversation as evidence.

It can be transcripted if necessary and used in court for a civil case.

Dreamgirl, without any evidence about the parquet pricing, you basically do not have a basis for the cancellation of your contract without penalties or have your deposit refunded.

You will definitely have to take up the issue with the management with regards to the service provided and see if that helps.

[Renovictim 0]

I beg to differ.

1. One should obviously start by asking lawyer friends, or even free legal clinics. I can't imagine one walking into any lawyer's office just like that, not when it's not even clear whether there's something worth pursuing.

I agree on legal clinics, but unfortuantely there are few. Not many people have lawyers as friends.

2. If there is a valid contract that shows the additional price is $1 psf, then one should try to enforce it. I would like to ask the orig poster, where is the contract? My view is that without any reliable proof of this "representation", it's no better than a puff.

Agreed.

3. My point about promises they can't keep is that one should not look to Case, the govt, Radac, etc. This is at best a civil law matter, there is no basis for the govt to get involved in a contractual dispute between two private parties. People and companies get into such situations all the time, that's why there's contract law and the due legal process. It's a civil matter, not a criminal matter.

Case, Radac and the Mediation Centre are all avenues for the people to seek redress without having to resort to expensive legal action.

4. You'll turn a lot of people off voice recorders. My advice is, don't pay "deposits" at reno fairs. Not unless you get a valid and binding contract with a firm quotation (incl. additional and optional items) and a clause which clearly allows you to regain your deposit (or at least part of it) if you decide to change your mind.

Yes most people will get turned off (contractors) and there are of course other forms of approach. But for me, hard evidence is important. Keeping a log of progress helps as well.

As for the contract that you have mentioned, it is very unlikely that they will find such a contract.

And yes, please do not pay deposits at renovation fairs.

Unfortunately, I must say that most people cannot foresee every single optional item they will need at the start of the process. Hence, even if you have a quotation when you sign the contract, you may later request items which will require further quotation. And the contractor, if he wants to take advantage of you, can obviously quote high prices for such items, and it may not be practical for you to terminate the contract halfway and call in another contractor.

In other words, you need to find a contractor you can trust. A contract you can rely on is a necessary but not sufficient condition for reno success.

Agreed.

[tension_z 0]

I am curious, which id company did all of you wish to cancel?

can PM me if you don't mind? cos' I signed one as well.

Thanks.