RimBlock

I am guessing this is for me. . If so thanks. Just different perspectives and a will to put them across. Whilst I would never claim to be an expert in this I have enough experience to be able to give some, sometimes hard won, pointers, the best of which is to go and try for yourself. I also like to be fairly light hearted and whilst cultures may differ, hopefully the funnies come across ok. You read my T-Blog yet..... there is more in there . RB

Nice find, I like the bottom one best and for those who 'just want the facts mam', skip to the summary at the bottom. The method used in the second suggests for a 100" image at 1080p I should be 4 metres away (13ft). I sit around 16ft away and it is fine for me. This is in part due to furniture and room shape so no-one should be hung up on getting it exactly right. Adding to this is the fact that we have a 42" plasma for when we are not using the projector which means we should be even closer still. So, what I need to ask for next is remote controlled movie seats. Maybe one of these or even one of these . RB

Nice teamwork. I jest of course with the previous comments as my wife likes to come along and feel she has the final say in spending that sort of money but she is not really that interested in the movie / music thing and whilst she likes watching on our 100" projector screen with the sound flowing around, she leaves the details to me and then decides what she will buy for herself / the kids to balance out the chi . Have not informed her I may be looking for another subwoofer to replace the sold one or an upgrade on the centre speaker.... I will leave that for a couple of months I think after the pay with the new pay rise comes in . RB

Whilst I wouldn't like to to go against common knowledge of all husbands that our wife is always right, looking at the Oppo website it seems the 83 is actually discontinued and replaced by the 93 so your hubby may be right to want to upgrade . RB

Now, now, everyone knows there are no women on the inter-web-net. As one site expalins it ...... "The internet Where the men are men the women are men and the children are FBI agents" . I never got in to WoW and only really played Hellgate: London (from reading my T-Blog I am sure you aould know why). It was a bit of a surprise after playing the game with someone to have them say... "Have to go now, I have my PSLE tomorrow" . I met another girl there too but my wife explained to me in very loud words why having any internet contact with girls on anything other than forums is a really bad thing before logging on to MSN and chatting to 20 assorted guys she has in her friends list . Upgrading is good but just remember the law of deminishing returns. More you pay (past a certain level), less obvious the benefit. Take a look here for an idea on speaker placement. RB

Save some cash, make your own speaker cables . 6moons DIY Speaker cables Don't laugh..... Audioholics DIY Speaker cable shootout. Not really surprising but braided cat5 beat Monster cable. More surprising is that braided cat5 beat just about everything it was tested against...... now where was my cat6 roll.... I can think of one person probably having a heart attack right now . RB

Yes, but Ely, I would hazzard a guess that the lady being fully involved in the HTS choice is not that common. Maybe an agreement here or there but to go listening etc .... . Good for you being so pro-active with the choice and getting involved rather than letting hubby call all the shots but actually having some logical (yes, logical for a lady, clearly a rarity ) reasons for saying no rather than the usual "I just don't want too" or "because I am not comfortable with that" (yes I am still talking about buying HiFi . Funnily enough, the guy I went and bought my 18.dfs surround speakers from last night had a top of the line SVS tube sub and it was a beast. Didn't listen to it but it looked very impressive . Can't help much on the choice but to say....... go try them and get what you prefer. Both seem like reasonable choices. Check out user thoughts at avsforum or avforums (linked in earlier posts) to see if there are any issues that may affect you like speaker placement. Go try, then buy, have fun.... RB

ok, Last poison for today. Tannoy Eyris DCC in Sycomore centre speaker - Originally 699 pounds (around S$1700), now brand new (stock clearence) 200 pounds (around S$500) obviously plus postage. Even at S$700 or so all in for a brand new speaker, I find it hard to think it can be beat at anywhere near that price. Very tempted myself TBH. They don't post internationally but as I still have my UK credit card and a UK address (my poor parents will be pleased ) it is feasible. RB

Ok, now if we want to talk about poison..... close your eyes or you may regret it....... on UK ebay; TDL studio 10 speakers - originally 500 pounds (S$1200). Old but very good reviews..... 80 pounds (S$180).... Wharfedale Emerald 95 - 95 being the year to two years younger than my wonderful speakers. The Emeralds were the top of the range line. 80 pounds (S$180) Ruark Prologue 1 - originally 900 pounds (over S$2k) in 1998 - 295 pounds (S$700). Even with shipping fees (use borderlinx or the like to reduce them) you can still get a much better speaker for significantly less than buying here. Takes a little more effort and there is a slight risk but to be honest, most people selling on the UK ebay for items like this are pretty honest in my experience of selling camera and hifi there. Think what you could do with the extra money saved. Maybe it would be worth clubbing together and buying then just renting shipping space rather than flying it over. Much cheaper. Maybe I should do this and resell in Singapore . Maybe, maybe . RB

The card I have from KEC states 8pm..... I am not helping your wallet am I . RB

np If you want to do it properly, ask them not to tell you what they are until after you have listened. That way your preconceived ideas about the different brands will be taken out of the picture . If you are looking at 2k on the app and speakers then you try the denon / yamaha 667 / Onkyo 608 with the Tannoy HTS 101, Q Acoustics 2000, Q Acoustics 1010is (the 2000 replaces it but you may be able to get it cheap as it is dicontiued now) or maybe the Wharfedale Diamond 10. The Monitor Audi BR2 may be worth a listen but would probably take you outside the budget. RB

Welcome to the club . We are all in trouble with our misses even/especially when doing nothing . You just have to decide to what degree.... Decent floorstanders should provide a lot more bass if sited correctly. Too close to walls and corners and you could end up with a boomy reflection. Floorstanders usually also have bass ports to help. They are unlikely to be as good as a decent sub but they can get close. Remember, subs only really became mainstream with the advent of home surround sound and were originally intended to make up for the lack of bass drivers in small wife friendly speakers. Now the appetite for having your pants shaken off when watching a movie has increased, big (controlled) bass is also a must have. I used to run a pair of Rogers LS55s which were wonderful floorstanders. If I had the chance I would probably snap them up again. They still sell well on ebay. I managed to set fire to mine (internally) due to arcing caused by a faulty amp. Blew 3 cones including scorch marks from the electricity arc and some smouldering from inside 10 minutes later. Turns out the baffle material burns quite well..... Sounds like a good idea with the best speakers principle. Yeah, who needs built in wardrobes when you can upgrade the speakers . Can get a bit of a dangerous game. I also do photography so have the same with cameras and lenses. Doubly wammy. RB

5 star by who ?. By your word everyone cannot trust Brit magazines for ratings. Outperform in what equipment and what environment ?. How do you believe out performance should be measured ? You are aware War is talking about 685s aren't you and that the 685 set does not include floor standers ?. Like his test driving a Honda Civic and you telling him not to buy because the Honda Fit has worse suspension than other cars at the same price. For the other more sane people here, a thread I came across in ecoustics.com asking whether B&W speakers are overrated. Interesting views and while most agree they are not, there are different opinions. My favorite post there was the third one down which includes the following (which is what I try to get over to people here) RB

Where is your proof or just slander ?. Name the magazines you 'know for a fact' are falsifying reviews. You started out with a confusion over what you want and what you use it for. 1. Only if you think your personal taste is not as important as the taste of others. Some prefer more detail, some prefer more base, some prefer a mix of both. You prefer the Denon for its musical ability over the others. That is a fair point although if you don't really listen to music now, how likely are you to be doing so in the future. Unless you have a big interest, it is more likely that you will spend more time with watching movies but only you are in a position to decide. 2. Again, no one else matters. Try and buy what you like. You money, your pleasure. Take advice offered but do your own research as well. If you are after more choices then post asking for a system around 1-1.5k in www.avforums.com (UK site, 1-1.5k should work out to around S$3k) or a recommendation from www.avsforum.com around the 2k mark (US forums). 3. Sorry, really cannot comment. Have not tried them. Rears / side rears carry a very small amount of information. Don't go to silly lengths and pay large amounts. Buy a reasonable cable and audition it before spending the money. Most people will find it hard to notice a difference between S$2/meter and S$5/ meter cables. I still have the free S$1 speaker cable that came with an all in one system 8 years ago and it is not showing any signs of corrosion and would do fine for most people at the S$2-S$3k level. Try before you buy though as everybodys hearing is different. I would agree with my anti-Brit compardre that you should be working out where to put the speakers and thinking about how to mount them. You could go for bipoles (fire in two different directions) or small bookshelf speakers which you could probably mount directly on the wall or you could go for larger speakers which may need brackets. If you are starting the reno then you may want to start looking at the forums and asking for recommendations. Go wider afield than just here though . PS: I know . Saying that I have just had my EM done for around S$43k with little custom carpentry but through an ID rather than directly with contractors. Depends on what you want really and what you are willing to pay. From what I have read the Wd 10s centre in the package is not as good as it could be. It would seem entirely valid for you to go have a listen to alternatives. Wharfedales like the 10.cs would seem to be obvious choices but you can also see what the shops can recommend as a comparison. A good shop should be able to give you alternatives. RB

Ask about speaker packages around the 1K mark and see what the shops suggest. Different shops will most likely suggest different packages and some will suggest the best for their mark-up as they are a business after all. It does not mean that the set with the best mark-up is no good though. Ask for two - three recommendations and try them. Any shop that cannot provide either don't stock comparative brands or are just trying to steer you where they want. Ha-ha, guaranteed to provide some smiles. Q-Accustics were founded in 2006 and so have been around 4-5 years already. They have won a number of awards from various international magazines (not just British). Info here. Not really hard checking out the facts rather than firing off silly sweeping statements. So even though Mars has heard a number of setups and by far prefers the B&W 685s he should ditch his preference because they do not meet with your approval on what you believe he should be listening to. Speaks volumes really. So what hifi magazines should the people here be reading then ?. So anything that got a good rating in a British hifi mag should be disregarded even if other mags also give it a good review and if user experiences are reported as being very good. Cleary that should not be the case. So WhatHiFi gave the Onkyo 608 product of the year (Home Cinema Amps 2010), loads of people here have demo'd and loved it, it has wide acclaim around the internet as being a great av amp but should be ignored because you believe the reviews rating in a British mag was paid for by advertising. Do you not seriously see how silly that sounds ? RB

Just to offer some advice on this (sorry for the off topic Mae). In my teens I ended up with a damaged lower back. I my late 20s I stupidly lifted a bag of cement in completely the worst way possible and badly damaged it making it extremely painful to stand lay down or just about anything apart from hang so there was zero weight on my lower back. I ended up with mc for 6 months. What seems to happen is that the muscle tears around the spine and inflames which pushes on the nerves. Since coming to Singapore I had a couple of x-rays and the bottom two discs are around half the thickness of the rest. What I have discovered is two fold. Firstly, if I feel a twinge of pain in my lower back, what I need to do is take a couple of Neurofen (no prescription needed but have to ask pharmacist as they are not on the shelves in Singapore. They are on the shelves in the UK and Thailand though) which are anti inflammatory and lay down straight away. This turned a new tear in to a few days of discomfort rather than weeks of severe pain. I would imagine any reasonably powerful anti inflammatory will do. Secondly, I got myself to the gym. Light exercise to strengthen the core muscles and gradually build up. Body weight or proper weight training both will work. I tend to use the weights and concentrate on the main compound exercises like full squats (not these namby pamby quarter squats but all the way down) and deadlifts. Since doing this I rarely get any back pain as the lower back muscles are much stronger and can control movement and support the spine much more efficiently. Exrx.com is great for exercises with little gifs to show how to do them. Now it is worth noting that I am 1 and err around 2/3rds older than csingeu so my body has had longer to ..... deteriorate . ...and before you ask, yes ladies this includes you. As the body ages, if you are not actively exercising you will start to loose muscle mass. This is not just the muscles you see on the outside but the muscles that support your skeleton and organs on the inside. Muscles are one of the principle parts of the body that burns energy so as you loose muscle but still take in the same amount of energy as food you start to gain weight. In guys it is usually called the mid-age spread. By doing some sort of strength training you can maintain your figure, gain some strength making lifes chores easier, improve posture and well being whilst not gaining a muscular body. My wife is dead set against exercise and luckily here genes are very good so she stays fairly slim, at least for now. One of the excuses against doing nay exercise is that she doesn't want to be muscular and if you do some research then you can exercise strengthening rather than building muscle. Yoga is also another popular activity for strength and suppleness but be aware, none of this will work very well without a decent diet of the right amount of the right things. Take a look here for some more info. Remember, for the ladies, strength training does not mean muscle building but more muscle strengthening. You can maintain your slim skinny figure if that is what you like but you could also be able to beat him arm wrestling . Personally I prefer ladies that are slim but firm rather than skinny and like marshmallow and who complain after 20 minute walking that they cant go any further, but that is just me . RB

Haha, this is nothing. I have had a multi page 'discussion' about HDMI cables and the illusion that it either works or it doesn't because it is digital. Discussing and coming to a common understanding then someone new jumps in and takes it all back to the beginning again. First it started with a facepalm, then it went to a tactical face palm and by the end it was a struggle to open my eyes . Was a good exercise on the HDMI format, communication method and confusions surrounding both. Oh I agree on second hand stuff. My Wharfedale Emerald 93s are second hand and I got them for S$140. When new they retailed for around S$1200 and were still very highly rated when the last of the stock sold off at around S$600. My previous setup was Rogers 5.1 which I got new as Rogers went out of business. Great speakers with great resale value. I also ran via a Cyrus AV8, three monoblocks and two smart powers all with psx. It was at that point that I decided that a bigger spend would be wasted on me. Time changed and I ended up selling them and got a good amount back on all but the av8. And that is the end all and be all for most people. I just find it hard to keep quiet when people are spouting rubbish and worse of all, others are listening to them as if it is the truth and then get upset due to what they have bought. Do a blind demo, get the wife to pay and forget about brands and cost (demo stuff in budget of course) and choose the one that sounds best to you. Ahh an interloper . Ok so I have to ask my wife to tell me where there is a place somewhere near Changi with second hand HiFi shops and massage parlours . I can see how that is going to end . She works down around Changi so she may have an idea. Sure it is not Adelphi by the big white church but more central. Large number of HiFi shops and some massage parlours. Bit of a joke as the law court is just next door . Guess when the judges get stressed...... . Some of the valve stuff and older equipment like the turntables were really works of art. Wonderful to look at without even using. RB

Agree fully with all of that Seems to be a very small second hand market for HiFi in Singapore though unless I have not discovered it . Any pointers ? This is the other train of thought and is very valid. I personally would still stick to the ratios I mentioned as amp change at a rapid pace as technology changes. In the last 3 years there has been the rise of HDMI as a primary connection method, HDMI 1.4 with 3D, audio return and ethernet. Just like the D-SLR camera market, you spend the money on great lenses and buy a good body as the body will become outdated far quicker than the lenses and the lenses can be used with a new body. Out of interest what are you using ?. If you are using two amps then you are presumably using a seperate pre-amp / decoder and splitting the output to the two power amps ?. Absolutely. RB

Why would you expect it to be any different to just about any industry selling stuff I am aware that WhatHiFi is no longer considered reliable due to accusations that they were giving in to advertisers with ratings. If you are basing your anti-British HiFi sentiment on this then it would seem that in your mind, no British HiFi could ever get a good score as you would believe the score is falsely boosted. Clearly that is wrong and the reason that someone who is looking to buy needs to check forums for user comments and not just magazine reviews. Dismissing all British HiFi out of hand is just plain silly. Sorry but I have to disagree. It is like asking a F1 driver what car to drive to work. Peoples needs vary as do their environments and available finances. Sure a F1 car would be great but not obtainable for most with a other concerns. Balanced suggestions would be welcomed but it is up to the driver to go and find what fits them best and not have a F1 drive pick the car and then have to fit yourself to it. Are you for real ?. Are you suggesting Mars should spend S$300/mtr on speaker cable or even S$150/mtr ? Where has this S$300 come from ??. Kimber is certainly well regarded, Nordst I have not dealt with so cannot comment. Taking an interconnect cable costing 1/3 the price of the amp you are connecting it too is really a waste of money, better to get a better amp. I am soal surprised that as you apparently speak for audiophiles, you have not made the point that a decent stereo amp for less money than the AV will produce much better music. Well I guess that also depends on the partnered equipment, set-up of the amp, speaker placement and acoustics of the listening area. It is also interesting to note that originally you stated the 685s are 'the BOOMING bass will be so OVER-BLOATED i doubt you'll hear any details at all !' and now you seem only to be talking about the 6 series floor standers. Something we both agree on although I think we have different views on at which level good sits in the scale of things. RB

Just picked up on this again. If you have any thoughts on adding a projector at a later stage, lay either a long HDMI cable (check amazon for reasonable prices but make sure you get a high speed cable) or a couple of cat5e cables as you can get a HDMI to cat5e converter at a later date if needed (most require two cat5e cables to work). I bought the Epson 3500 (recently superseded) plus screen for just over 2.7k and it is by far one of the best purchases I have made. Lay the ground work now with the cables if you are also doing speaker cables or you may regret it later. Yes I am speaking from experience as I have layed my own speaker cables and HDMI cable . RB

Another two setups you may want to look at are the Monitor Audio BX2s and the Q-Audio 2000 series. Both will be cheaper and it is up to you to decide if the savings are worth the difference in sound quality. Both have quite a following and are commonly suggested for packages. For the money, the B&Ws are touted as being very good, this is also true on the subs as well. Did you try to audition without the sub ?. Maybe see how big a difference it will make. Remember to factor in the cables, stands or brackets etc in the final price. My guess the 608 is heavily discounted to clear stock for the 609 release. Are you able to demo with the rears being 2.5 meters away ?. I would have thought you would be ok but it is, at the end of the day, your ears, your money and can be a very personal thing . This si why I am happy to suggest or steer but always make it clear nothing beats a good demo. You have been doing this so you are clearly going in the right direction. It also depends on what you like to play. Classical, pop, rock ?. What sort of movies do you like. I was watching the V for Vendetta bluray last night and the talking from V is very soft so it needs a bit of power. Some of the scenes are very strong though. The scene when Evi comes out in tot he rain no longer scared of dying is fantastic for surround sound with the water, flames and music all around. Behind enemy lines has a missile chase scene witch is also very good for surround sound. Saving Private Ryan is also highly rated and War of the Worlds is a suggestion for testing out that bass. What have you been demoing with ? RB

Interesting as both Tannoy and B&W are both British brands along with Monitor Audio. Also interesting is in your British HiFi hatred, you also failed to note that B&W is owned by an American (Joe Atkins) although it is still seen as a British brand and has its head office and research centres in the UK. Seriously your anti British HiFi sentiment extends to cables as well. You are trying to state that for this level of HiFi cables marketed by US company's are significantly better than British ones. The vast majority of cables are made in China regardless of the company marketing them. Suggesting that a S$7/mtr US cable is significantly better than a S$7/mtr British cable is laughable just as much as suggesting the British cable is so much better than the US cable. At this level the vast majority would be happy with a S$2/mtr cable. At this point you are certainly coming over to me as an anti-British troll. Recently joined the community here, throwing around sweeping statements directed at only British HiFi without anything to back them up and some of which have been easily proved to be false. Stating ridiculous things like a cable manufactured in China will be worse because of the nationality of the company marketing it. Of course you could prove me completely wrong by posting reasonable evidence backing up the claims you are making as statements of fact. You are of course entitled to your opinion and if it is your opinion you are trying to get across then I would have nothing to say but you are putting everything across as fact and not opinion. Mars, ask to audition the Chord Carnival and ask the shop to suggest one or two other brands around the same level and make up your own mind. Don't be put off by some unknown internet voice with a clear agenda against anything HiFi that is British. Next they will be suggesting not to buy British banana plugs, speaker stands or speaker spikes for no reason other than they say so with no evidence that what they say has any basis in reality. Takes all sorts to make the world. Whilst opinions may vary but facts stay the same . RB

Clearly rubbish again if people take the time to position them correctly. The sound dynamics of your room will have an influence on the sound coming out of your speakers and should be noted. Take note of the positioning advice provided by the manufacturer before buying. Claiming that, for example, taking a speaker from a small demo room and putting it in an open plan area at home with adequate space around the speaker will cause a bigger boomy effect is just plain wrong. If anything the open space will have an effect of lightening the bass response. As Mars has mentioned that he has no wall for side mounting, it is pretty obvious that his listening area is likely to be open and not a closed room. Pushing speakers closer to the walls will intensify the bass possibly to a level of distortion. Mars, if possible ask for speaker placement as close as possible to how they will be put at home for the demo. If you will be placing away from walls then have the demo with the speakers roughly the same distance from the walls. If you need to place closer at home then ask for the demo speakers to be placed closer to the walls. Your demo, your money, the shop should be able to accommodate any reasonable request. Also note that the speakers demo'd will be 'run-in' and will also most likely sound different from a new set. The new set will come closer as usage increases and then level out. If you google running in speakers you should be able to get some good suggestions. It is also worth noting that the best position for speaker in an musical setup is not always the best position for movie surround sound. For most people this will not be a factor. RB

User experiences with their own Wharfedale speakers going back 15+ years up to the current day including the Evo, Evo II, Diamond 9 and Diamond 10 series here. I prefer to let people see what users think of the speakers rather than make sweeping statements whilst not being able to provide anything to back up what you are saying. Lets be clear here, are you using Chinese as a race or as a nationality ?. Clearly if you are using it as a nationality you are wrong. RB

A decent HiFi shop should have runs of commonly bought cables on hand for demoing. Strange, the M1s can also be bought as singles in the UK. Not sure why dealers here are not doing the same. Yes I am in the same position so I know your pain. What you need to remember is that the rear sides in a 7.1 setup act as the rears in a 5.1 setup. I used a couple of speaker brackets and hung some small speakers from the light box. Using the correct butterfly fittings the light box happily takes the weight. I am in the process of changing these for either bipole speakers like the Wharfedale 10.dfs or discrete speakers like the Linn Classik Unik (formally known as the AV5110s). Both are within budget, the Linns are a slim profile and white whilst the Wharfedales are fairly slim but will bounce the sound around a lot more as they fire in two directions. The Kef T101/T103s also seem to be getting good feedback and are more or less flat panels. Stability is probably a leading concern. As the cones move, the less stable the speaker, the more that movement is distorted. Fixing to good stands or directly to a wall limits the movement. Are you not able to fix to a beam ?. Recessed speakers would probably be your last choice but are a lot more wife friendly. You can happily mix and match but audition to make sure you are happy with the pairing. I would probably advise going for half on the fronts and centre. The left and right obviously for music and the centre as being the most important for movies. Two thirds of the rest on the amp and the remaining third on the rears. So for 3k, 1.5k on the fronts and centre. 1k on the amp. 300 for the side rears 200 on the rears. B&W 685s are very highly recommended in the press and by users here (291 pages of feedback from users). The 1K should get you the Onkyo 608/609 (when it arrives in Singapore) or the Yammy 667. You could get a reasonable entry level speaker for the rear sides and a small bookshelf one for the rears. If you want to go only for 5.1 at this moment the the full 500 can go on the rears (5.1 rears not 7.1 rears). Cable needs to be factored, speaker stands or mounting brackets, as does the install if you want a shop to set it up. 3K may be a bit tight for this level. Dropping down a level to the 508/509 or the Yamaha 567 will give more breathing room. The main question though is this.... Are you a consumer, an enthusiast or an audiophile. I would peg you as an enthusiast like myself. Interested in having a good setup on a budget and willing to do some research and buy components rather than an off the shelf setup. A consumer will usually go for an off the shelf package and for an audiophile music is a passion and its accurate representation is the main goal and the smallest nuances of equipment will cause unacceptable colouration. An audiophile would not be asking about audio recommendations on a renovation forum but would go to a music enthusiasts forum where much more knowledgeable people are likely to be. RB