RimBlock

International Shops. Links are in the brackets for the countries. Movies/Books Amazon (UK/US) Play (UK) Waterstones (UK) - Books only. General Amazon (UK/US) Debenhams (UK) Argos (UK) EBay (UK/US) John Lewis (UK) Littlewoods (UK) TaoBao (CN) - No direct delivery. Need to arrange via someone like Pazar8. Clothing Austin Reed - (UK) - Mens smart. Next (UK) - Mens/Women/Children Topshop (UK) - Women Topman (UK) - Men River Island (UK) - Women. Dorothy Perkins (UK) - Women. French Connection UK - FCUK (UK) - Men and Women H&M Hennes (UK) - Men and Women. Jigsaw (UK) - Women. Mango (UK) - Women. Oasis (UK) - Women Precis (UK) - Women. Zara (UK) - Men/Women/Children. Sports Kitbag (UK) Unusual and wacky Firebox (UK) - Gifts, gadgets along with wild and wacky items like a water powered jetpack, the octopus chair and a half sized Jag e-type which can reach 46mph . Drink Stuff (UK) - Gifts and gadgets to do with drinking both small and large. Amongst their catalogue is an inflatable pub, Home cinema nacho warmer or my favourite.... the 4 person inflatable hot tub with spa jets for around S$1k +delivery.

Useful Links. Payment Paypal Virtual Address and delivery Borderlinx (Citibank card holders only). Borderlinx twitter page (Promos) vPost (by Singpost) Vpost promotions ComGateway - Shopping from US only. EzPz Express - Ocean shipping. Expensive for under 0.5m cubed (25Kg or less) compared to air freight. Savings from 1m cubed size or heavy packages. No GST allowance on ocean shipped freight. ShipTo - Untested. ShopandShip - Untested. International Couriers DHL FedEx Coupon/Deals/Promo sites Retailmenot Slick Deals Fat Wallet Currency conversion XE

Hi all, As a British guy who came to Singapore a number of years ago I was very surprised that there was not more ability to shop on-line here. To me, as a foreigner, I understood Singapore was one of the countries at the fore front of technology in Asia. Since reading here it seems that a number of people are buying on-line and importing to Singapore and many more are displaying an interest but are unsure of how to go about it. To this end, I hope this will be a helpful guide on what, why, how and where to go shopping on-line. Comments and tips are very welcome and will be added along with links to on-line shops. So without further a do..... lets get going. For those who just want to get started, here is the quick version. What - Being able to shop from stores all over the world, Why - to get products at cheaper prices or just items you cannot buy in Singapore, How - see the shop links section further down, sign up with vPost or Borderlinx, browse, buy, pay for delivery, get your new purchase. Where - you will have to scroll down to the shop links section for a categorized list. For those who want a bit more information before taking the plunge. What. The internet is just a collection of computers all over the world. The way we navigate it is by using a web browser to travel around the World Wide Web (www or web). The web gives us the ability to see pages, like that of a book, on our computers and allows us to communicate with others on forums like RenoTalk to discuss topic, swap ideas and hopefully, make our lives easier. In essence, the web allows us to interface with a global community. Since the web was created, people saw a great possibility to use it to sell things except rather than just having limitations of being able to reach potential customers in the local community or even the sellers country, now the seller can reach people all over the world. With the ever increasing evolution of computers, communication and the languages that make up the web, it has never been easier to buy more or less whatever you want (give or take legal restrictions) from anywhere in the world that has it for sale on the internet. Why. Think of popping down to your local shop to buy a cup. They have 10 designs and none of them fit your taste. You end up either having to go somewhere else or going home without what you wanted. Now imagine, from your home, you can look at thousands of cups... millions of cups, choose one, pay and have it delivered to your door within a few days. Now think about Bluray movies. There are currently limited titles available and they are very expensive in Singapore. Imagine being able to see just about every BluRay published and being able to take part in sales that make them 1/2 the price compared to buying in Singapore and getting them delivered to your door. How about a wall clock or a necklace, what about a kids toy or computer part.... The beauty of the internet is that you can browse and buy from home, pay by credit card and have it delivered to your doorstep. With a few simple rules you can also make it as safe as possible. What the internet does not allow you to do is to touch and feel something before buying, you may need to check warranties to see if they are international or take a risk the item will not break as returns are sometimes difficult. How. There are 4 main components to internet shopping and I will cover each separately. 1. Preporation. Getting ready for your foray into the web for your first world wide shopping expo. First you will obviously need access to a computer with access to the internet and a web browser (Internet Explorer/Firefox/Chrome/Safari etc). As you are reading this I would imagine this is already taken care of. Secondly you will need a payment method. The two most common are to pay directly via a credit card or to pay via PayPal which will act as a link between your seller and you without giving your credit card details to the seller. Most sellers on-line use a broker to handle payments and do not take your details themselves. When you click the 'pay' button you will usually be transferred to another website where you will have to put in your credit card details to pay. These websites are usually run by some of the worlds largest banks and are pretty safe to use but it never hurts to check by using google (or search engine of your choice) to find information on the payment service name. Before entering in your credit card details you should always check the address in your web browser starts with 'HTTPS' as this indicates a secure and encrypted connection (this means only you and the person at the other end can ready any information sent between the two of you). Lastly you will need a way of getting the items back to you. If the seller is in Singapore then you can arrange to meet or they may offer to delivery via Singpost or a courier. If it is an international company then they may deliver internationally. This is not always the standard though and you will need to check before purchasing. If the company doesn't deliver internationally you will have to use a service like vPost (Singpost) or Borderlinx (Citibank card holders only) which act as a virtual international delivery agent for you. What these services do is offer a local address in the UK, USA etc (check with the companies for current services on offer) so you can have your items delivered locally from the seller and they will manage the transportation to Singapore. Borderlinx uses DHL currently but the price you pay is around 50% less than if you used DHL yourself. You need to account for shipping costs and import tax (if applicable) to the cost of the item you are buying in order to work out if it is cheaper to buy the same item overseas. Both also have cost calculators so you can work out roughly how much it will cost for shipping. These companies also sometimes have sales so you can get even better deals on shipping. If the seller will only accept a local credit card for payment then you will have to use these companies concierge service where they will buy for you and charge you for the item. 2. Browsing. It is as simple as going to one of the links for the internet stores and browsing like you would a catalogue. Find the items you want and there will usually be a 'buy' button. Make sure you have chosen the right size / colour etc before choosing to buy and once the buy button is clicked the item will usually go to a virtual basket which is just a list of what you want. You can usually go to your 'basket' at any time and add, delete or change quantity of items at any time. Once you have all the items you wish to buy you can move on to the next stage by clicking a button labelled 'Go to payment' or something similar. 3. Buying. Clicking this 'payment' button will take you through a process where you will verify the items you wish to buy, be given a total price, be able to enter a shipping address (either a virtual address as mentioned above or your Singapore address if they ship internationally cheaper than the other shippers) and then on to paying. Once you go through all the steps, you will bet an order number which most sellers will have a system for you to track your order. You will usually get an order confirmation detailing what you have purchased, what you have paid and the order number. 4. Delivering. Once the order has been sent you will either receive it at home if the seller will send internationally or you will get a notification from your delivery agent letting you know a package has arrived. You will then be able to go through their process to arrange for the package to be delivered to your Singapore address and will pay your delivery charges. Once paid the item will be posted to you. Borderlinx usually takes around 3 working days. I have not used vPost so cannot comment. There is one other step and that is to enjoy of your new purchases. If you need advice on how to do this then I am afraid you are on your own and to be honest I am surprised you managed to read this far or even turn on a computer for that matter . Where. Look at the Shops post (#3) below for a list of some of the better known internet shops. More to follow. RB Oh and a quick disclaimer..... I have no affiliation with any of the on-line providers listed here and internet shopping can very very hazardous to your bank balance .

Probably. Last highest when I checked last week was around 650k. Family was not defined. My BiL and SiL bought an EA together and my MiL and FiL live with them as well. For just two people though it is really a waste considering the housing situation. When we were looking at the end of last year we came across and very nice apartment, mid floor overlooking Tampines Stadium. The owner was asking around 40k COV on the open house viewing. Last we heard he was asking 70k COV but that was just before the first of the new knee jerk rules came in. We got about 70k I think for our 3 room but.... we didn't demand it. It was offered in a closed bid as two were willing to pay the 50k. People will take the most they can get regardless of whether others consider it fair or not. As people have mentioned, some sellers are just trying their luck. I would check to see if COV anywhere near what I could comfortably offer, place a reasonable offer below the asking COV and see if they will lower. If I really liked the place I would then offer just below the COV (5k or so). If that still failed and I really loved the place I would make a last offer on the COV whilst making it clear this was my very last offer. If at any time the COV when up I would walk away. Our seller wanted 80k originally (top floor EM more or less opposite Century Square - Tampines). We passed. We returned around a month later later and they had dropped to 55k. We settled on 50k as they were urgent to sell and we could sign on the day. It also helped that there were a couple of other units in the same set of blocks also for sale although this was the most expensive. IMO 80k anywhere is really too much. Having to pay 50k to me is a real push for COV regardless of whether I have it or not. Don't worry though as the government and the media has confirmed that prices are coming down due to the Governments new 'measured and effective rules'... if you believe that. RB

Thanks May. Yes my wife and I think the vast majority of ladies are the same. Us men just disappear reading in the toilet, are not so fussed about making a mess putting up shelves, rebuilding dusty computers or playing on the XBox for hours.... . My wife has just about every bit of clothing bought for both of our kids ..... ever !. We have wardrobes filled with kids clothes that no longer fit anyone. Saying that, I need to clear my wardrobe out too as it is pretty packed although not in a stacked floor to ceiling way . RB

Haha, so only 3 times more expensive rather than 4 times . What make you think only trad Chinese men like to retire to what we English refer to as the 'Mens reading room'. Surely if this was a concern it would be the toilet seat rather than the toilet that was important. The toilet need only flush away and look good but the seat has to comfify (yes I made that one up ) the butt. The only reason I mention is that I know how easy it is to be swept away in the blur of reno and spend large amounts on things where the cash could have been better spent elsewhere. Sometimes a pause with someone outside of the whirlwind putting a hand on the shoulder and bringing reality in again can stop a regretted mistake. Saying that, some people are happy to spend large sums on things like this and are very clear that it is worth it to them. In the end it is your cash and your bum . Yeah looks to be so. I bought Sims stuff for my previous apartment and was very happy at the cost and quality. I had no issues with buying Sims brand again and actively sought out to get the same rain shower we had but failed as they no longer produce. Cool, same as ours. Have you got a picture of how they mounted the compressor. Ours was mounted blowing outwards to push the hot air away from the windows. Problem was that the window was partially blocked with the ugly compressor so we got it changed so it is flat to the wall. Looks much nicer but now blows across the windows so if anyone has the aircon on we have to make sure the master bedroom window is closed. Small price to pay for nicer mounting IMO. RB

Ha, we are level, I found my camera . I love looking at peoples pictures too but with little happening it seems pointless posting pics of the same old things. I need to put up pics of the HTS with the new amp, the network switch and patch panel now the wires are a bit tidier and maybe the bedroom when the bed is moved and the baby cot is set up waiting for the new arrival. Apart from that I need to wait for the last of the patching and painting to be done so we can hang some pictures although I am still looking around for a nice big picture for the staircase and some sort of picture or transfer for the stair wall light box. Ahh but you do tempt people so with your online discoveries. Lots of Umm and Ahhh when people see the new pics in you thread I think. My pics are likely to be of network keystone wiring or considering out cash flow at the moment, a Kitkat . RB

Thanks Ely. I am sure we will take you up on the offer at some time. Would be nice to hear the SVS in a larger space as well as meeting you and your husband, not forgetting the pets too.. We would love to have you. If I get my way it will be loud . People who don't like loud will have to bring ear plugs . Having watched IMAX - Fighter Pilot in HD the sounds of the jets are fantastic. Having done a Waynes World of sitting at the end of the runway (Gatwick airport in London has a road that loops around the bottom of one of the runways although the police now stop anyone hanging around there) while big planes come in to land, I can firmly attest to the fact it is almost as awesome (seeing an aircraft passing over your head so close cannot be recreated at home IMO ). Ahh mine is not that high end at all. The projector and all was around 3k, the two amps were under 2k together, the sub and center was around 2k, the surrounds were around 200 and the fronts are difficult as they were ex-demo and used to retail around 1k but were bought for around 300. So only around 8k plus TV which would be under 1k these days. The KEC guys are usually enthusiasts who believe in spending 10K on a single amp or who are tasked to get people to buy more / upgrade, they are a business after all. I think you have entry to mid level in an enthusiasts world. For audiophiles, entry could be easily over 10k for the basic setup. Your will happily beat or compete with most peoples but more importantly gives you the pleasure you want at the right price. Now you can get subwoofer revenge on the locally howling dogs or more importantly, their owners . Good to see you went the sensible route with the cables as well. RB

Well of course. You are a lady and if there was enough room then you clearly would have to buy some more . Popped by to check your pics as well . You kitchen looks massive. Just need to find your floorplan in 33 pages now . RB

Yeah I hear you. Still looking for my Nikon camera though. Still not surfaced but still have a few boxes to unpack . RB

Same here. Very quiet. Previously we had a Mit Heavy Industries which was also pretty quiet even after almost 3 years. I know that feeling. Some very nice items on display in the T-Blogs . RB

Strange, I thought I would have a quick look too after a long time not reading and come across this explosion of pages . Seems to be coming along very nicely although NEEDS MORE PICTURES . We all want to see the goodness . One question though. Why S$900+ for a toilet. I appreciate it is your money and style and taste etc but I am just curious as we also looked at the prices like that and settled on some Sims toilets for S$215 which looked more or less the same and spent the cash elsewhere. We have no regrets as they look fine and flush well. Unless it is a unique(ish) design then just wondering why spend so much. Again, not trying to be critical, just curious. Some very nice lights you have there. RB

Haha, you need to skim over the technical bits I think or maybe I should quote them "For Techies", "For normal people" and "For people who are not bothered" . Maybe I should follow Ely and just put up pics of nice things . RB

Sure and I was not directing the fun and games comment about that thead at you in any way . Or the thread already running or both . RB

I have finally tidied up the cabling a bit in my study room, sorted out all the patch cables between the patch panel and switch so the look reasonable and have more or less completed all the trunking. I will be able to get rid of my spare trunking, much to my wifes relief, and hopefully can sell off my 200mtrs of network cable and 4x2socket wall boxes I have spare. We will be getting some more storage after my parents leave from their visit in July so we can then finally unpack the last boxes. I cleared another 5 yesterday but we still have 11 to go with nowhere to put the stuff (apart from the rubbish cute). Quite a lot got thrown away and some boxes were better repacked. So, Reno complete in the next couple of weeks hopefully, Baby due anytime after Thursday, Parents visiting at the end of this month for 1 month. We have a wooden cot bed which my BiL was using for his older son but no longer needs. We will use that for the new one along with a sarong. I just have to collect it and rebuild it. Oh, we have one of the 3M super mops for laminated floors. It has a bar of sponge and the pad slots in to place on the bottom of the mop handle. There is also a handle which squeezes the two ends together to squeeze the water out of the sponge bar. I cannot for the life of me use this without the sponge bar falling off. It is great as there is very little water so the mopping should not damage the floor but if the sponge bar falls off every couple of swipes on the floor then it really is not much use. Any ideas if I am doing some n00b mistake in my bar mop handling skills . Played the IMAX Fighter Pilot - red flag show on the projector last night. Great picture, great sound. Show is a little old now but still very good. I have lots of the IMAX shows now. Need to watch some more tonight. RB Busy time again.

Thanks May. Another boy....... 3 in total when he comes. We have been having fun trying to agree on names but at least my wife has not suggested Amadeus like she did last time..... A couple of people have popped over during the reno and a couple briefly after. Would be nice to put some names to faces..... after all if you read my blog, you know what I look(ed) like, maybe to avoid me on the street considering one discussion about PRs and housing . RB

Would be nice to come and meet some others as well as the two of you but that is probably just about when my wife is giving birth. Apart from the cinema night, we will have to invite all honoured RT guests to the babies first month / house warming which we will hold as one. Will have to pop over to yours some other time. Still up for help getting your hifi setup ? RB

You seem to be confused. Let me try to make sense of what you appear to be trying to say. 1. If you are paying to service a loan which is now much more than the value of your property you are not loosing money . 2. A property is meant to be a home, for life and you should not consider changing it if you have more children, would be able to move to a better property / condo or another area that better suits your needs. Once you buy a property you should be stuck there until you die . 3. You should not expect to make any money over the purchase price of a property even though inflation rises year on year will make that sum worth less than it was when you bought . 4. Grandchildren will be either extremely dumb and not use the value of your property to either pay off their home loans or step up to a nicer apartment or your children (their parents) will be so selfish as to refuse to help their children get on the property ladder. 5. first time buyers who will generally be newly married childless couples who only require 1 or 2 bedrooms to cover them for a first child should get 3 bedroom apartments at fraction of the price. 6. There should be no resale market as no one should ever move. All new properties should be for fist time buyers only. 7. No one should be able to step up through the property market so they might someday be able to afford a condo. 8. If for some miracle there is a resale market then sellers will be forced to sell to first time buyers at a fraction of their apartments worth to non-first time buyers. 9. You believe that first time buyers will have any sellers willing to sell to them. 10. You believe that the price of housing for a first time buyer (resale or new) should be depressed along with the various grants being available (40k family grant, upto 40k AHG grant + HDB savings + HDB reduced rate loan) meaning that some first time buyers will just get properties handed to them. 11. You feel if people are just handed properties or have very little of their own money invested in the property that they will still value the property as much as someone who has to make a large personal commitment. Take a look at public housing in the UK to see how bad that can turn out. 12. You believe that even though the above go against human nature, any of the above are workable. Higher prices = higher rents is true. How much higher depends on how greedy the person renting is. Higher rentals = higher taxes.... huh. Rental prices have jumped by around 60% since I moved here. Tax rates have not changed (GST excluded). My descendants will end up paying high rental. Err yes, they will pay higher rental than I would today. Yes, that is usually the way the world works unless you are living in fantasy land. I pay higher rental than my parents did 20 years ago. Err, sort of obvious really that one. Pay rises and government subsidies are meant to over the increases. 1. If your company does not increase your pay in line then find another job. 2. Not skilled enough then retrain on one of the government schemes. 3. Didn't quite work hard as you could have in school then you only have yourself to blame. Do something about it and move to a number 2. 4. Failing all that, stand up and start blaming everyone else but yourself for your situation whilst doing nothing to improve it. Just to highlight of course.... A new couple buying a property for around 300k with a family grant would be likely paying under 1k a month between them (500 each if they wished) over 30 years coverable by CPF if their combined income is below 8k per month and give or take CPF savings. The killer is the COV values. It is of course possible that housing equity will be wiped out when the 99 year lease on most HDB properties is up. That we will have to wait and see on although I would expect that will not be the case. So destroying the finances and legacy for almost 4 generations (grandparents, parents, my generation and any legacy for my children) is ok as long as first time buyers can buy cheaper apartments bigger than they require for, in some cases almost free and you have the audacity to call me selfish. I suggest you rethink your extremely ill thought out proposals before you start labelling anyone else as selfish. That is unless you are a number 4 in which case you are doing your job perfectly. RB

I must admit that I find it incredible and pretty inspiring to see how quickly Singapore has come from Kampong huts to one of the more advanced countries in Asia. My wife also mentions times for living in huts with the chickens etc running around. Fantastic how a people quality of life can change so drastically in such a short space of time. I do understand what MM LKY said (I believe it was him) concerning the newer generation not having grown up through the hardships endured from Singapore becoming independent up until now. He is obviously generalizing as I am sure some of the younger generation still face hardships but as a whole I can understand how the newer generation is a little 'dislocated' from those times and the whole nationalistic effort put in by all levels of community. Will take a look at the links later. (*whisper*)oh and err..... not trying to be picky or anything..... think the stats were up until June 2010 only although I haven't double checked this morning . One area not covered in the Singapore census is non-resident foreign workers (i.e. workers that commute form JH or the liek every day). The UK is also going through a census this year and it will be interesting how the figures pan out if some people would actually stop being %$*@($ and fill it in so we could get some accurate information. RB

Haha, we took 4 hours with our ID but then my wife is quite..... picky (*duck*). Our ID was also quite good at suggesting combinations and one that were under budget as well. Our previous ID was very little help at all so if you find a good one, it is worth utilising them as much as possible , in the nicest possible way of course . RB

Enthusiastic err..... enthusiast . Still sharing experience and learning to try to help others dodge the minefield of propaganda spread but uninformed internet 'experts' and hifi companies. Sticking to my mantra for HiFi HT which is "Try it, if you love it then buy it, enjoy it and ignore the experts. Your money, your ears, your pleasure". I have also meandered into discussion concerning PRs and Housing to offer an alternative view from 'outside the goldfish bowl' rather than following the popular 'blame the PRs'. We will see how that goes . RB

Just clarifying, not diggin' But not here. I am sure there are quite a few people without PR/Citizen friends especially when the PR is from a European country or somewhere like the US or Canada. The insight would have been interesting to hear, even for myself, if it had come from the people you have the meal with. I can understand the patriotism part and wanting to die in your own country but with PR / Citizen couples it is still a mix and both cannot have it unless there is another move after one passes. CPF: PRs are the same as citizens as long as they don't have to pay a bond to make sure any citizen children return for NS and as long as the CPF returns the funds in a timely manor. Citizens still have the cash tied up in their properties and their funds for old age. Of course the wild card is not knowing what will happen after the 99 year lease for HDBs expires and if that equity in property will be just wiped out. My wifes CPF is much higher than mine as she has been paying for many more years than me even though my contribution is more. Healthcare is a big one for me. I have heard stories of families because one member has a disease and the medication is so expensive. I don't want to cause that burden on my family or have to cause them to decide between paying for my medication or leaving me to die. Retirement: Working all your life so you can enjoy your 'golden years' seems to be slipping away for a lot of people now both here and in the UK. My parents have retired and have a reasonable life but have to be fairly careful financially. Unless you are pretty financially astute, have good savings and investments or are very well off it is pretty hard to be able to enjoy your retirement years the way you envisioned. A scheme like the CPF is good for that as you are forced to save and, yes, as a PR you can get to unlock that money on leaving Singapore but you loose the steady drip feed to sustain you in later life. We (my wife and me), my sister-in-law and my brother-in-law all give money to my wifes parents. They live with my brother and sister in law in an apartment they jointly own. Soon to be having 3 boys, I find it hard to believe they will be doing the same for us. In the West we are taught to be independent and so expect to have to pay for ourselves and not be a burden on our families but I must admit, I do like the support our generation are still giving sometimes to our parents. RB

Ahh, for whom and compared to where ? . I know we touched on this briefly last time we met up. RB

Not sure who you are correcting here but just to clarify, non-residents is incorrect. The figure of 1,305k (not 1,205k) is for non-perm residents and covers students, work pass holders and the like who live in Singapore. Glossary of terms (p36) of the Census. It is the large increase of non-perm residents that has raised the population of Singapore so quickly (14.9% or 130k in 2007 and 19% or 190k in 2008), not the increase of PRs which has increased by 100k between 2007 and June 2010, the same rate as the growth of Singaporean citizens. PRs still only account for 10% of the population. So 'encourage' PRs to become citizens. How to do that ?. Not so hard when the PRs come from less fortunate countries but much more difficult when they come from countries with a comparable or better standard of living. Not sure of the point you seem to be trying to make here and you have of course missed out the most important bit of information.... why would they move to Germany in their old age. What appeals to them which will draw them away from Singapore ? RB

Any reasonably run private company will always be on the lookout for productivity boosts. Publicly owned organisations and badly run private companies is usually where you will find people employed in a pretty inefficient manor. To give a comparative example... In the UK the last Government (Labour) slashed unemployment rates. One of the ways they did this was to add a large amount of paperwork and red tape to the National Health Service and then create jobs to cope with this extra work. Efficiency has been cut in order to make work for political gains and service has suffered in this publicly owned organisation. It is not about driving faster or having less accidents but more about meeting the goal more efficiently. If the goal in your analogy is to deliver people from one place to another then trends could be mapped to assess volumes and maybe cut frequency at quiet times and increase at busy periods. Maybe you could use bigger buses rather than two buses. Sometimes it is hard to find areas to improve and there is always resistance to change but pain is sometimes needed to provide a better outlook like having an injection to ward off a disease. Filling inefficiency by employing cheap labour is a quick and easy way to relieve stress in a particular area but fails to tackle the underlying issue. For the purpose of this thread though, how many of these cheap workers are PRs and how many are EP holders ??. One of the issues in my mind is not so much this part of the employment sector but more the more technical skilled part where jobs are created in Singapore and then services companies are used to fill them which they do by importing cheap skilled labour from India and the like. They can undercut the local workforce and fill entry level jobs Singaporeans would have filled in order to gain experience for them to move further up the career ladder. The cold hard fact though is that it makes good business sense for businesses to do this. True but they can give a more informed indication than having no information at all. If it rained 2 days ago, will it rain today. Looking at the average rainfall for the month and comparing with the previous 5 years can give an indication to the probability and that probability will be more accurate than going in blind and just sticking your finger in the air and going 'dunno'. Historical data and statistics can give a more accurate probability but they are not a crystal ball to tell you exactly what will happen. Most would prefer to have an indication of probability than nothing to base decisions on. Some would prefer not to especially if it goes against what they would like to happen or their point of view and some just like spouting uninformed and unsubstantiated facts around and expect people to agree. Trends for people in Singapore show that a two year period around 2007/2008 saw a massive jump in foreign workers and a spike in PRs above the baseline for the last 10 years. What it also shows is a vast reduction on those figures over the next 2 years, partly, no doubt due to public opinion. This spike, especially with foreign workers, has made some people a lot of money. People have been buying up HDBs for rental. Our old landlord upgraded from a HDB to a condo but didn't sell his HDB and rented it out. If the HDB apartments are meant to house Singaporeans, especially when there is a shortage of homes, why are Singaporeans who have moved to Condos allowed to use them as a money making machine ? I read the question as 'should', as in 'what is your opinion' rather than 'would' as in 'if the government implemented it based on past experience of them introducing policy would the impact be good'. On one hand you are saying 'historical information is irrelevant as it does not show us the future' and on the other you are saying 'it should be this way because of this is how it has happened historically'. So you are just picking number out of the air based on pure assumption. TBH, considering the last few sets of rule changes on HDB purchases and the statement on offering PRs citizenship or not renewing their PR status I think the coin flip seems to be the way they were going. From an outsiders point of view, these knee jerk rule changes seemed like the decisions of a very amateurish and arrogant group of people with little consideration for people caught up in the new rulings especially as those affected did not have a reasonable time to manage issues that may have arisen due to the new rules. Case in point was that we had just signed the OTP as the first set of new rules came out about a second home lone and the max allowed to borrow. Potentially this meant that we could not borrow the 80% and would have to borrow only 70% as we had not completed the sale by the time the purchase was initiated. HDB had no information for a week or two, banks had no information, agents had no information and we had just signed a legally binging contract that, if the new rules forced us to a 70% loan, we could not honour. It all worked out in the end but surely before you announce a sweeping rules change you make sure your support organisations are aware and able to answer questions and you give people time to adjust and manage before it comes in to affect. The fact that the Government is willing to treat its own citizens like this is one bug red alarm bell as to why citizenship is not so appealing to many PRs I am sure, myself included. THe underlying issue is the lack of pre-planning. Renewing old blocks makes sense but not when there is already a shortage of housing. Displacing a block full of people when there is nowhere for them to go is just madness. It seems therefore that building on unused land is now the only way to go. This then brings with it infrastructure cost and making that are desirable and accessible. Punggol, for example as a new estate has limited shops, transport links and the like but lots of new apartments. Living there is not as desirable for many compared to living in a more established area. 30 year loans are not usually available to people around 40 years old or above. Sure if you want or have to buckle yourself in to a 30 year loan commitment. Clearly this is great for the banks. This is human nature. The difference between views is how much you let it dominate your life and the choices you make. I believe in living for myself and my wife/kids and not for what others think of me. I am well aware of the concept of 'face' as my wife was considered the 'black sheep' of the family as she was divorced before meeting me. My mother and father in law refused to come to the ceremony initially but relented in the end after I personally told them how much it would mean to us. We all get on very well now and my in-law are very happy for all of us (although my mother-in-law tends not to show any positive emotions ). Anyway, this is digressing from the main subject wildly. It is interesting to see how, even though people cannot afford HDBs, new builds and even Condos are usually oversubscribed by orders of magnitude. RB