Daveyap

Why do you need to put yourself down and put your boss up on the pedestal just because you were made a partner recently? What if he is really indeed what others have been saying about him, wouldn't that make you look really bad in the eyes of everyone in here given that you said you are so much more inferior to him? Steve Jobs may be so much more richer, smarter and capable than me but he is so very much dead and I am so very much alive. Every person has his value and place in society, kudos to you for wanting to defend your boss but no need for you to lower your own dignity just to repay a favour.

Good to know EL make good on their promise for this customer. By the way, did your boss apologize for being rude to this customer?

No need to get so worked up in the forum. Whatever beef Jeanius had with you is just one competitor pointing out the potential flaws of another competitor marketing efforts. Time is always a great judge of who is right and who is wrong. We just need to sit it out for 5 years and then make a final conclusion.

Funny that you should raise the issue of timber here. Give you a hint, my company product is closely related to timber. HTL manages their own furniture factories. The point Jeanius and now I have been trying to make here is that they are not going to just simply shut down and run away with their customers money unlike $1 paid up capital companies. Your company is new, you want to stand out from your competitors by providing good customer service, good for you but we are just waiting to see you make good on your promises. Time is on our side, we just have to wait and wait.

You don't know my trade at all. I supply a very critical component in the supply chain for many industries. I am not allowed to delay delivery even for one day or else I have to pay compensation. That is why I have to keep ready stocks for my customers and do Just In Time Delivery. Failure to the Deliver is not an Option for me. I can provide all the excuses I want to my customers but I still got to compensate them for the delay which can run into the tens of thousands per order. You do not need to get personal with me here, I am just pointing out the fact that you are just another furniture retailer who is trying to outshine your competitors, good for you if you succeed but no surprises if you run into the same sort of problem plaguing your industry.

If the display set in the showroom is the last piece, then if you don't mind that it is a "New used piece", it would usually be a bargain since it is usually priced at near their cost price.

But why can't he be an excellent boss to his customers as well

But let us let our imagination run wild a bit. Say, those creepy crawlies turn out to be termites and they then migrate to the other parts of Sooks's house, you can bet your last dollar that there is an exclusion clause lurking somewhere inside the 5 years warranty to prevent Sooks from claiming compensation from EL

Guys & Ladies, Since I run my own trading company dealing with imports & exports, let me share a little bit about this Indent Order issue that has been plaguing all these furniture retailers and their customers. From what Jeanius has said in his previous posting, I guess Jeanius and his company are among the first in the furniture trade to discover the benefit of finding a reliable factory and sticking with it all the way. Other furniture retailers would just hop around multiple furniture factories looking and hoping for the best deals in order to maximize profits. Frankly, there is nothing wrong in hoping around multiple factories as you will then be able to offer a wide range of furniture products to your customers. BUT not all factories are run the same way, the furniture retailer is just another customer (trading company) to them, and some furniture factories are notorious for mixing up orders and delivering defective products. Even if the factory is reliable, a lot of things can and do happen during transit. Hence, EL and many other furniture retailers are going to have a lot of irate customers because of quality and delay issues. If you want virtually problem free leather furniture, may I suggest going to HTL instead. Since they own and manage their factories, they are the most reliable leather sofa manufacturer/retailer in Singapore. Also, as they are a public listed company, you can buy 1 lot of their shares and go to their annual AGM to give them if you are not happy with them in any way.

How can we be expected to take it at face value! This is a World's First on fair wear and tear to leather being covered under warranty for 5 years. I will definitely buy most if not all my next entire set of furniture from Executive Living BUT only in 6 years time because I need to see if they would be able to Honor their fantastic warranty without folding up.

Extracted from one of my favourite leather websites. Leather furniture Care Leather furniture sales have increased significantly over the last 5 years and one major problem has now become clear- IGNORANCE. IGNORANCE in the fact that firstly customers rarely know what kind of leather they have bought and secondly the salesperson's ignorance in not advising the correct way to look after it. There are 6 main types of leather used to make furniture, you need to know which you have. 1. Sealed Leathers, often called Corrected Grain. This leather is top surface coloured then a clear protective sealant is sprayed over the colour, this leather is the most common, to test if you have this leather drip a small amount of water on a hidden area, if it sits there for 15 minutes or more, you have a sealed leather. 2. Antique Rubbed. These usually have a very shiny finish, in the case of Antique Rubbed a base coat of colour is applied first, dried then a dark shade is applied over the top, areas are then rubbed and the light colour underneath shows through. A protective coating is then sprayed over the top to seal in the colours, PU is as above but without the rubbing process. 3. Semi Aniline. This leather is coloured by dyes which penetrate the leather, a thin clear sealant is sprayed over it, this sealant gives some protection, but not much, to test for Semi Aniline, drip water on a hidden area and if it soaks in within 5 minutes you have Semi Aniline. 4. Pure Aniline. Dyed as above but without any protective sealant, fades and stains easily. Do the water test, water will soak in within 30 seconds. 5. Waxed pull-up. This is a pure aniline or sometimes Nubuck, waxed or oiled, this treatment gives some protection against spilt liquids, but fades and dries out quickly with heat and clothing. It also shows slight "scratches" if rubbed with a blunt object, this is sometimes done at the factory to give an aged look. 6. PU Leather or Bicast Leather. This is a leather with a plastic type coating and generally very shiny. It's very similar to Patent leather often used on shoes. Keep away from strong heat, clean with a just a damp cloth. Cannot be conditioned because of the plastic coating. Conditioning could cause the coating to part from the base leather. THE WATER TEST - RESULTS: Antiqued Rubbed: The water will remain for around 10 minutes Semi Aniline: The water will remain for between 3-5 minutes. Waxed Pull-Up: The water will not be absorbed at all.

If I were the Arte boss, I would not state Cowhide if I know some of my hides are not from cows. We shall see if what they deliver to me is what I am supposed to be getting but it better be a good set or else I will have lots of things to say about them in here.

I don't think all their hides are from cows and that is the reason why it is stated as Bovine. They can confidently state Full Grain Semi Aniline Cowhide leather on my invoice because they know I will not be cutting off a sample from my recliner just to send it for a lab test.

As mine is a single seater recliner, I will drag it down to their showroom if it turns out not to be what it was stated in the invoice.

Just bought a single seater recliner from Arte this afternoon. The showroom piece was indeed Full Top Grain of a very high quality. I ordered the Full Full Grain Semi Aniline Cowhide Leather and they were more than happy to write this full description down in the Invoice. Lets' see if what they finally deliver to me is really Full Full Grain Semi Aniline Cowhide Leather

Just don't quite understand how such high maintenance Nappa and Full Aniline leathers can remain in almost brand new condition in an enclosed hostile environment with such wide ranging daily temperature fluctuations.

The seats looked brand new even after 5 years. Bet you didn't expect imitation leather to be that good, yeah?

I can only assume that the previous owner, a Japanese Expatriate must be a cheap skate.

About 2 years back, after huge losses in the stock market, I decided to reinvest what is left of my investment income by putting whatever money I have left into buying used cars from direct sellers and then putting them in my friend's car showroom to sell on my behalf as I have no intention whatsoever of becoming a used car salesman. We split profits and losses 50/50. Some of the buyers would want to redo the leather car seats as some of the leather seats do get worn out by former owners who don't really take good care of the seats. My friend's showroom would have a wide range of leather samples (swatches) for the customers to chose and like what Jeanius said, much of the car leathers range are heavily corrected and pigmented so I guess that is where most of the protection come about from the thick sealant. However, If you go into the luxury range of car leathers, the quality is really superb and equal to those semi aniline soft leathers found in high end sofas. But like you, I just don't quite know how come the leather can remain in such good condition despite being lightly sealed (Semi-Aniline) Frankly, if the sealant that is used is so **** thick, you don't need to use leather conditioners because these conditioners cannot penetrate into the leathers to nourish them in the first place.

You are luckier than me. I drive a Merc and I recently confirmed that they used Imitation leather in my car.

You are most welcome. It was actually quite fun for me to go on site to do some detective work on your behalf. I hope everything turns out well for you.

Hi Jeanius, Just to add a link to your postings here. This organization is the ultimate expert and leading authority on leather. They provide lab testing services for companies who suspect they have been scammed by their leather suppliers/tanneries. Your company may need their services one of these days if you have been sleeping on the job Just Joking with you http://www.leatherusa.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3284

I feel that sometimes you run the risk that what you see in the showroom may not be what you will be getting eventually. After all, furniture retailers know that the customer will not be dragging their purchase set to the showroom to do a detailed comparison just to make sure that they are of the same quality and material.

Have to agree with Sam that the defects are acceptable for the price. He should have gone for bargain display sets/pieces at all the furniture retail outlets. Next time, insist that the delivery guys stay put while you inspect the goods so that any defects that are found can be written down on the Delivery Order on the spot. In that way, you will have a much higher chance of obtaining a full refund or replacement set.

I actually used the leather conditioner that was recommended by the company that sold my parent the sofa set so it was not due to my own negligence. Anyway, that was in the past but it was very painful to see such a fine leather sofa drying out and cracking after only 9 months because the pores have been blocked and the leather couldn't breathe. Warranty Exclusion and Inclusion clauses have essentially the same effects so it does not matter if it is one or the other. They all exclude liability under certain circumstances. It is great to have a 5 year warranty on leather and I hope to see more furniture companies offering such warranties provided the numerous exclusion clauses do not render the warranty useless.